20,000 mile service intervals

[Tzsteve]

I'm dropping my a3 1.5tfsi in to audi on Saturday to get the oil and filter changed. There is just over 1000 miles on it and it's something I've always done with a new car after things have had a chance to settle down and bed in.

the service interval is 20000 miles on it which I think is too long to leave an engine before changing the oil. I usually get it done around the 8000 mark or once a year.
Just wondering what others think of these extended intervals that have become the norm?
I think audi really don't give a 5hit once the warranty term has expired.

Cheers

 

[RichardT]

If you are doing less than 10K miles per annum you should be on fixed schedule (ie annual) anyway.

 

[Ron240]

Where have you seen 20,000 miles as the service interval?
As far as I am aware there are only 2 service schedules - fixed which is 9000 miles/1 year, whichever comes first......or variable which is up to 19000 miles/2 years.
With the latter your car decides and flags up when it requires a service.

 

[Tzsteve]

Where have you seen 20,000 miles as the service interval?
As far as I am aware there are only 2 service schedules - fixed which is 9000 miles/1 year, whichever comes first......or variable which is up to 19000 miles/2 years.
With the latter your car decides and flags up when it requires a service.

I was working out out roughly from the mileage I've done and the remaining mileage on the display on the mmi. I see on audis website that it's 19k.
It just seems long.. That's all.


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[Ron240]

It is quite long, but that one is only suitable for cars that tend to do regular longer journeys.
There is no guarantee that you will wait till 19k/2 years though, because the car decides based on the type of use it is getting.
I remember when most new cars had an oil change at 1000 miles(or less), but I don't believe this is necessary nowadays.
BMW M cars are an exception however.

 

[Scottk]

I leave my car on variable but do my own oil and filter change between services. Our journeys are all longer though so the engine is always getting hot.
May change it to fixed though as our mileage is going down.

 

[Retroman]

These 2-year "extended" service intervals are far too long. There is no such thing as a "long life" oil filter as they start to lose their effectiveness after 8,000 miles. If you care about the car and intend to keep it beyond the usual 3-year HP deals today, I would stick to one-year (max 10,000 miles) intervals and ensure an engine/turbo in good, trouble-free condition over a long term.

 

[GW1]

I'm dropping my a3 1.5tfsi in to audi on Saturday to get the oil and filter changed. There is just over 1000 miles on it and it's something I've always done with a new car after things have had a chance to settle down and bed in.

the service interval is 20000 miles on it which I think is too long to leave an engine before changing the oil. I usually get it done around the 8000 mark or once a year.
Just wondering what others think of these extended intervals that have become the norm?
I think audi really don't give a 5hit once the warranty term has expired.

Cheers

You are spot on. I bought a new S3 in September 17 and as I don’t do a lot of Millage I have my oil changed every year or in my case 7k. I remember back in the day, when I was a Ford performance car owner, like RS Mexico’s Cortina Savages 3.1, RS2000 and Capri 2.8 injections, Ford recommenced changing the oil at 500 miles. I think Audi’s 20000 miles is madness, especially if you are a low Millage user. When I pick up my new RS3 in September I will book an oil change at the same time.

 

[Tzsteve]

You are spot on. I bought a new S3 in September 17 and as I don’t do a lot of Millage I have my oil changed every year or in my case 7k. I remember back in the day, when I was a Ford performance car owner, like RS Mexico’s Cortina Savages 3.1, RS2000 and Capri 2.8 injections, Ford recommenced changing the oil at 500 miles. I think Audi’s 20000 miles is madness, especially if you are a low Millage user. When I pick up my new RS3 in September I will book an oil change at the same time.

I feel that the business model of selling cars nowadays is all based around pcp/hp.
The manufacturer only really cares about the first 5 years of a cars life.... Then it's not really their problem.
Its sad to say but cars have become almost disposable.
Anyway the dealers thought I was insane booking it in for a 1000 mile oil change and tried to talk me out of it..but hopefully it will benefit the car in years to come.. Who knows

P.s. I put a tiny mark on the oil filter to make sure they have done it


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[wab172uk]

Service it every 12 months or 12,000 miles. Screw what the computer says.

 

[GW1]

I feel that the business model of selling cars nowadays is all based around pcp/hp.
The manufacturer only really cares about the first 5 years of a cars life.... Then it's not really their problem.
Its sad to say but cars have become almost disposable.
Anyway the dealers thought I was insane booking it in for a 1000 mile oil change and tried to talk me out of it..but hopefully it will benefit the car in years to come.. Who knows

P.s. I put a tiny mark on the oil filter to make sure they have done it


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Yes, I still have a pot of tipex as well haha.

 

[Ron240]

P.s. I put a tiny mark on the oil filter to make sure they have done it

Funny you should say that because I have my very first oil change a week on Monday(1 year/4000 miles ) and I want to do exactly the same thing.
I haven't looked but is the oil filter easy to see from under the bonnet?
I thought it might only be visible from underneath but like I said I haven't looked for it.
It is actually quite sad that we have any need to consider doing things like this.....but unfortunately it is indicative of the times we live in.

 

[GW1]

Funny you should say that because I have my very first oil change a week on Monday(1 year/4000 miles ) and I want to do exactly the same thing.
I haven't looked but is the oil filter easy to see from under the bonnet?
I thought it might only be visible from underneath but like I said I haven't looked for it.
It is actually quite sad that we have any need to consider doing things like this.....but unfortunately it is indicative of the times we live in.

The oil filter on my S3 sits on the top of the engine.

 

[Ron240]

The oil filter on my S3 sits on the top of the engine.

Should be easy to see from above without removing the engine cover or anything then.
Where should I be looking...left/right etc?

 

[JohnM100]

Whilst very early ‘first oil changes’ aren’t as important these days due to improvements in manufacturing, it won’t do harm

Back in the day I just about remember thinner oil for first fill to help everything bed in, as well as changing early to get rid of any swarf not caught by the filter, as well as normal grade of oil.

That said, up to 19k between oil changes is crazy if you want to keep long term. As others have said it’s designed for fleet market where they don’t care what happens after 5 or 6 years.

John





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[Ron240]

The oil filter on my S3 sits on the top of the engine.

Ok I've just watched a youtube video where a guy is doing an oil and filter change on a 2017 S3, and the filter is not like I remember when I used to change them on my Ford Orion back in the 90's.
It is now just a paper like element like an air filter which has to be inserted into a housing that is screwed onto the engine.
Obviously the filter itself cannot be marked, so what is it that you guys are putting a mark on?

 

[Tzsteve]

Funny you should say that because I have my very first oil change a week on Monday(1 year/4000 miles ) and I want to do exactly the same thing.
I haven't looked but is the oil filter easy to see from under the bonnet?
I thought it might only be visible from underneath but like I said I haven't looked for it.
It is actually quite sad that we have any need to consider doing things like this.....but unfortunately it is indicative of the times we live in.

Mine is buried on the 1.5tfsi. It's way down the bottom. If it were easier to get to I'd scribe a little mark instead of the paint as a good spray of brake cleaner is enough to clean it up like new.
A friend of mine served his time in a Toyota main dealer and told me out straight that if it looked ok.. ( Especially on new cars) He generally gave it a blast of carb/ brake cleaner and didn't bother Changing it.
It wasn't to save the dealership money. Just pure laziness. The filter and sump washer went into his toolbox for jobs on the side.



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[Tzsteve]

Ok I've just watched a youtube video where a guy is doing an oil and filter change on a 2017 S3, and the filter is not like I remember when I used to change them on my Ford Orion back in the 90's.
It is now just a paper like element like an air filter which has to be inserted into a housing that is screwed onto the engine.
Obviously the filter itself cannot be marked, so what is it that you guys are putting a mark on?

It's still the old style metal canister on mine..what you could do is put a tiny bit of tipex across the join ( where the top of that black housing meets the bottom)
If / when they open it.the paint will break.



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[Phutters]

It's still the old style metal canister on mine..what you could do is put a tiny bit of tipex across the join ( where the top of that black housing meets the bottom)
If / when they open it.the paint will break.

You could always take it to somebody you trust instead.

It's not really any of my business, but I think I'd be taking it to a good independent for that first oil and filter change. It's extra-curricular as far as Audi are concerned - which is why they took some persuading to do it - and as such it won't have any bearing on the warranty.

It'd also save you a lot of money...

.

 

[Fatbloke]

Oil and filter change every 5000 miles for me. Keeps everything nice and clean.
Quantum / Fuchs's 507.00 and genuine filters.

 

[JohnM100]

Erm, isn’t Quantum the AUDI ‘budget’ brand?


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[Fatbloke]

Erm, isn’t Quantum the AUDI ‘budget’ brand?


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That's what the Skoda dealers use. I have used it for years in my VRS. It's made made by Fuchs. Think it was previously Castrol.

 

[Ron240]

Oil and filter change every 5000 miles for me.

How long does it take you to cover 5000 miles?
For me that would be an oil change approximately every 15 months.

 

[Tzsteve]

Erm, isn’t Quantum the AUDI ‘budget’ brand?


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Quantum oil used to be made by Castrol and now made by Fuchs. It meets the 507.00 spec. I used it on my old a4 quattro 1.8T.
Never had a problem


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[Retroman]

If the oil is "approved" by VAG under 504/507 as opposed to "meets the requirements of" it is unlikely to be "budget quality". Like many things in life, lots of the big brands have to cover marketing costs and work on the basis that many customers are drawn to something that is "reassuringly expensive"

 

[Fatbloke]

How long does it take you to cover 5000 miles?
For me that would be an oil change approximately every 15 months.

Usually around 6 to 8 months.

 

[Mikeso51]

The Quantum brand is owned by VW through its parts supply subsidiary TPS.

 

[PhilsA3]

The extended oil changes are daft. My current & previous camper vans had 2 year intervals, madness, I want the turbo to last forever! It's all driven by accountants who have to make the vans ( or cars) attractive to fleet buyers. I researched that the same vans with the same engines had 1 year service intervals in some parts of the world, so clearly no real belief by manufacturers in 2 year intervals. Our A3 1.5 was on extended service but I had it done at 1 year 8500 miles anyway.....

Interestingly I've just done the first 600 mile oil & filter change on my Honda motorbike ( I'm not bothering being ripped off by my local dealer and having a day off work to take it in). What Honda don't know about engines ( or oil) obviously isn't worth knowing but away from the accountant led approach of the car/van market a 600 mile oil change is still required........

 

[Wibbly]

I've never understood why the car can't work out itself it's doing less than 9000 miles a year and schedule services as appropriate. Not sure why there are two 'modes' (variable and fixed), irrespective of the marketing reasons for having this... Also, although the age of the oil possibly contributes, if the 9000 miles are not done with loads of short journeys, why should only doing 9000 require shorter service intervals?

And just like other technologies that improve over time, in this case oils, fuel, engine bearings, piston rings and stuff have all improved. So I'm not convinced the reasons behind why we want very frequent services are still actually completely valid. Having said that, changing oil/filter regularly probably has no negative effects (engine starved of oil whilst the filter fills up the first time when the engine is restarted?). And it keeps the oil companies happy ;-) I wonder if extended service intervals will actually mean those engines really are expected to have a reduced service life/be subject to problems later? Knackered at 70,000m vs 120,000m...?

Maybe extended servicing is not driven by the corporate market wanting less servicing, so much as the local Audi dealer network not wanting their business reduced! So they want to see the cars, perhaps for an otherwise unnecessary oil change once a year, to keep being able to charge us all regularly for something... For example, gone are the days when suspension components required a grease gun regularly - so the service network have to find something else to do regularly even though it really isn't required. This would explain regional differences in the servicing approach/options, which depends on how vocal the local dealer network is!

(The issue of needing frequent oil/filter changes reminds me of the popular wisdom of deep discharging rechargeable batteries to keep them healthy and extend their service life in things like mobile phones. These days, that behaviour actually damages them, but these old 'wisdoms' take forever to die)

 

[Ron240]

Usually around 6 to 8 months.

You would be ideally suited to fixed annual servicing then.
As long as you are happy though, that's all that matters.

 

[Tzsteve]

I've never understood why the car can't work out itself it's doing less than 9000 miles a year and schedule services as appropriate. Not sure why there are two 'modes' (variable and fixed), irrespective of the marketing reasons for having this... Also, although the age of the oil possibly contributes, if the 9000 miles are not done with loads of short journeys, why should only doing 9000 require shorter service intervals?

And just like other technologies that improve over time, in this case oils, fuel, engine bearings, piston rings and stuff have all improved. So I'm not convinced the reasons behind why we want very frequent services are still actually completely valid. Having said that, changing oil/filter regularly probably has no negative effects (engine starved of oil whilst the filter fills up the first time when the engine is restarted?). And it keeps the oil companies happy ;-) I wonder if extended service intervals will actually mean those engines really are expected to have a reduced service life/be subject to problems later? Knackered at 70,000m vs 120,000m...?

Maybe extended servicing is not driven by the corporate market wanting less servicing, so much as the local Audi dealer network not wanting their business reduced! So they want to see the cars, perhaps for an otherwise unnecessary oil change once a year, to keep being able to charge us all regularly for something... For example, gone are the days when suspension components required a grease gun regularly - so the service network have to find something else to do regularly even though it really isn't required. This would explain regional differences in the servicing approach/options, which depends on how vocal the local dealer network is!

(The issue of needing frequent oil/filter changes reminds me of the popular wisdom of deep discharging rechargeable batteries to keep them healthy and extend their service life in things like mobile phones. These days, that behaviour actually damages them, but these old 'wisdoms' take forever to die)

Some very good points there Wibbly..
What at the dealers going to do when everything goes electric eventually.
When you consider the amount of components in an electric motor vs a combustion engine it has to be cheaper to design /manufacture?
But I can't see them charging less somehow.


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[Ron240]

Interestingly I've just done the first 600 mile oil & filter change on my Honda motorbike ( I'm not bothering being ripped off by my local dealer and having a day off work to take it in). What Honda don't know about engines ( or oil) obviously isn't worth knowing but away from the accountant led approach of the car/van market a 600 mile oil change is still required........

I'm not sure but I think you are making the point that if such a short first oil change is required on a motorbike then it should also be on a car.
Is this what you are saying?

 

[PhilsA3]

"I'm not sure but I think you are making the point that if such a short first oil change is required on a motorbike then it should also be on a car.
Is this what you are saying?"

Yes !

 

[Tzsteve]

I'm not sure but I think you are making the point that if such a short first oil change is required on a motorbike then it should also be on a car.
Is this what you are saying?

It's essential on a motorcycle as you have the engine the gearbox and the clutch all in the same oil. Plus they Rev way higher


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[PhilsA3]

It's essential on a motorcycle as you have the engine the gearbox and the clutch all in the same oil. Plus they Rev way higher

That wouldn't really account for why it's required on my bike, the NC750X as the engine is (famously) half a Honda Jazz car engine, for this year Honda raised the rev limiter from 6250 rpm to......6750 rpm ! No different to many cars then, unsurprisingly. As it takes 3.4l of oil it's nothing to do with oil capacity either. And whilst the clutch & gearbox are in the same oil I can see that accounting for annual oil changes at best, but not for the 600 mile change, it's still had a very easy life at that point, I'm still running it in. The only reason that I can see is swarf.

Regardless, I was happy to do it as it was required, and whilst I used to do new cars at around 1000 miles I do tend to leave them to the 1 year interval now. But this gets discussed on every forum and everybody has a different opinion. I guess you pays your money and you takes your choice.....!

 

[Ron240]

"I'm not sure but I think you are making the point that if such a short first oil change is required on a motorbike then it should also be on a car.
Is this what you are saying?"

Yes !

In that case I disagree with you.
I always followed and completely agreed with the manufacturers initial short period oil change on my motorbikes, but it's simply not necessary with modern car engines.
There are some exceptions however, with certain certain very high performance models requiring it.
As you have said you are happy to leave your cars to yearly oil change intervals, which is what I do too.
Also as you say it's down to individual choice.....so whatever makes you happy.
It's ok to do more but one should never do less.

 

[PhilsA3]

"I always followed and completely agreed with the manufacturers initial short period oil change on my motorbikes, but it's simply not necessary with modern car engines."

That sounds like an opinion expressed as a fact....

But as you say, nowadays I leave the car to yearly service intervals for two reasons a) I can't be bothered any more and b) I never keep a car more than two, perhaps 2.5 years......

But working on the bike is therapeutic, and it seems more rewarding somehow....

 

[Wibbly]

I guess you pays your money and you takes your choice.....!

Yep. It's a bit like the premium fuel argument. Lot's of conflicting 'expert opinion'.

 

[Ron240]

working on the bike is therapeutic, and it seems more rewarding somehow....

It is, plus oil changes are usually much easier too.

 

[Ron240]

What we were talking about earlier here is a photo of the oil filter housing on my facelift S3....clearly visible and can be easily marked if one should choose to do so.