Facelift 2.0TFSI quattro (190PS) vs. S3

xpoweruk

TTTS 8J Smile Machine
Yea...my car is at the same risk whether you press a button to start or whether you insert a key. They either break open and disable the alarm from the OBD port and code a new key, or block the signal as you lock it with the fon and then code a key through the OBD port.

Not much I can do with that, hence why I get GAP.

.

http://autowatch.co.uk/products/autowatch-immobiliser-systems is the answer.No fob,card or other device.
 

Flying Scotsman

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On the colour thoughts. Ara Blue as you know is my choice, but my second choice would be Glacier White Metallic and third Ibis White. Reason for the whites very easy to keep looking at their best. Swirl is not an issue like it can be on dark colours and to be honest, in my opinion are boring or a pain in the **** to upkeep and I mean no offence to those that have chosen other dark colours, just my thoughts.
 

DrEskimo

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On the colour thoughts. Ara Blue as you know is my choice, but my second choice would be Glacier White Metallic and third Ibis White. Reason for the whites very easy to keep looking at their best. Swirl is not an issue like it can be on dark colours and to be honest, in my opinion are boring or a pain in the **** to upkeep and I mean no offence to those that have chosen other dark colours, just my thoughts.

Yea you make some decent points, but I honestly don't like the white and while the Navarra looks lovely, I have always loved Daytona and had my heart set on it for a while. Very nearly got it on the S5 before the love of Sepang took over...

I think it's fair to say I'm a pretty keen detailer so will make sure it's swirl free :)

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/s5-detail-and-odk-wax-review.281729/

God I love Sepang.....
 

Flying Scotsman

Registered User
I was going to get Sepang but it was turfed for 2017. I just hope that Ara Blue lives up to my expectations. Plus I like the fact that for now anyway, it is a pretty rare colour and in my neck of the woods every other car is either silver, white, black, grey or very dark blue.
I have seen Daytona Grey and it looks great in the sun or a bright day.
 

GeoffT

Registered User
My previous car was a 2.0 petrol TT.
Loved it but needed room for the kids hence a sportback.
Went to the dealer with the intention of ordering an S3 and test drove a PFL and liked it.
Had a fit of Captain Sensible and decided my average commute in traffic didn't warrant 300hp.
I'm also of an age where I found it a bit harsh so would have ordered mag ride pushing the cost of higher.
I dismissed diesel as I love the once in a blue moon thrash to the red line.
Tried the 1.4 and liked it but just lacked a bit of go.
Ordered the 2.0 190 blind, and find it the perfect compromise.
Almost diesel torque for day to day, and smooth to the end of the dial.
Silent when cruising but a decent noise on full throttle.
I've also had 46mph on a 60 mile gentle run.
Spent the difference on the S3 price on options ( I know I lose at trade in time but I have exactly the car I wanted and that's the point when you buy new).
I've read some of the posts in favour of more torque in the top diesel and that's absolutely fair comment but I do think some of this is directed more at the very lazy 7th gear than the lack of engine flexibility (no offence intended).
Anyway, I know my purchase is a little unusual on the forum but I remain delighted with the car.

Are you still just as happy with the 2.0TFSI 190? I am thinking of getting one in an A3 BE Sportback to replace my Golf R for almost exactly the same reasons as you. The R has been great, but the opportunities to use the 300bhp are limited and, like you, I am putting my Captain Sensible head on a bit and feel the 190 could be a good fit for my requirements.

I had a quick test drive in a 190 manual (I would go for S-tronic) and was very impressed with the engine, especially how smooth it was, but an owners longer term impression is always more useful than a quick blast on unfamiliar roads while trying to remember to change gear! Which suspension option did you to for? I notice you can choose between Dynamic and Sport on the BE/S line.
 

davemk

Registered User
Are you still just as happy with the 2.0TFSI 190? I am thinking of getting one in an A3 BE Sportback to replace my Golf R for almost exactly the same reasons as you. The R has been great, but the opportunities to use the 300bhp are limited and, like you, I am putting my Captain Sensible head on a bit and feel the 190 could be a good fit for my requirements.

I had a quick test drive in a 190 manual (I would go for S-tronic) and was very impressed with the engine, especially how smooth it was, but an owners longer term impression is always more useful than a quick blast on unfamiliar roads while trying to remember to change gear! Which suspension option did you to for? I notice you can choose between Dynamic and Sport on the BE/S line.

I picked up my 190TFSI late November and am very happy with it. Sure, I'd have loved more power but the 190 has sufficient power for my needs. I'm still taking it fairly easy; I've only done 750miles.

As for suspension, I just went for whatever is standard. It's a firm ride, but comfortable.

I love mine.
 

GeoffT

Registered User
I picked up my 190TFSI late November and am very happy with it. Sure, I'd have loved more power but the 190 has sufficient power for my needs. I'm still taking it fairly easy; I've only done 750miles.

As for suspension, I just went for whatever is standard. It's a firm ride, but comfortable.

I love mine.
What typical mpg are you getting so far?
 

davemk

Registered User
@GeoffT On a run, high 40s. I even managed 56.8!! My daily commute is only 2.5 miles and that normally gets 35ish. My overall average is high 30s.

I had a diesel previously and this is my first petrol in 20+ years. I'm pleasantly surprised with its economy.
 

Brumbrum1

Registered User
Are you still just as happy with the 2.0TFSI 190? I am thinking of getting one in an A3 BE Sportback to replace my Golf R for almost exactly the same reasons as you. The R has been great, but the opportunities to use the 300bhp are limited and, like you, I am putting my Captain Sensible head on a bit and feel the 190 could be a good fit for my requirements.

I had a quick test drive in a 190 manual (I would go for S-tronic) and was very impressed with the engine, especially how smooth it was, but an owners longer term impression is always more useful than a quick blast on unfamiliar roads while trying to remember to change gear! Which suspension option did you to for? I notice you can choose between Dynamic and Sport on the BE/S line.
Still happy thanks.
As per previous it’s quick enough for me on the odd occasion that I get the chance to use it.
I have the standard suspension set up. It’s certainly firm but not uncomfortable.
Went from Birmingham to Stockton on Tees last week at motorway speed limit and got 49mpg for the round trip. I don’t like the economy setting on drive select so tend to leave the car in auto.
I don’t find much point in thrashing the engine. The noise isn’t particularly sporty and there is lots of torque so I can drive quickly and comfortably (and economically) and just let the gearbox change up early. Am definitely glad I have the auto box but it can be a bit tricky parking it, especially on a hill.
Overall, it’s quite a bit quicker than the 1.4/5 (I tested a 1.4) so sufficient fun, but expect to miss the noise of your R.
 

GeoffT

Registered User
Bullet bitten. Just ordered an A3 Sportback 2.0TFSI BE Quattro S-tronic with Tech Pack in Daytona Grey. Delivery est end of April. Thanks for all the feedback.
 

davemk

Registered User
Bullet bitten. Just ordered an A3 Sportback 2.0TFSI BE Quattro S-tronic with Tech Pack in Daytona Grey. Delivery est end of April. Thanks for all the feedback.

BE in Daytona... you won't be disappointed. I might be biased though :D
 

Steaman

Registered User
rsz_dsc00219.jpg
Good Choice, nice engine and nice colour!

rsz_dsc00225.jpg
 

GeoffT

Registered User
I'd have loved the saloon, I think they look stunning (especially in Daytona!) but I just need the hatchback too many times to make a saloon practical.
 

Steaman

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I'd have loved the saloon, I think they look stunning (especially in Daytona!) but I just need the hatchback too many times to make a saloon practical.
I have my wife's MB or my A2 for cargo transports.
rsz_dsc00231.jpg
 

GeoffT

Registered User
What grade of fuel is recommended for the 2.0TFSI 190? I've googled it and couldn't find anything. It's a bit of a pain finding 99RON for my R in darkest Devon, so I'm hoping the 190 is 95RON.
 

Steaman

Registered User
From SSP 606 - Audi 1,8l- and 2.0l TFSI engines of series EA888 (3rd generation)
It is stated for the A3: 95 RON but unleaded petrol RON 91 permitted, but however with loss of power
and for the S3: 98 RON but super unleaded 95 RON authorized, but however with loss of power
 
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GeoffT

Registered User
From SSP 606 - Audi 1,8l- and 2.0l TFSI engines of series EA888 (3rd generation)
It is stated for the A3: Unleaded petrol RON 91 permitted, but however with loss of power
and for the S3: Super unleaded 95 RON authorized, but however with loss of power

Thanks for that. So am I right in saying that by implication the 190 is recommended 95 RON?
 

Steaman

Registered User
Correct
 

RGBARGEE

Well-Known Member
I test drove the 2.0 TFSI-190 s-tronic quattro to compare it with my existing 2.0 TDI-184 and I found I preferred the way the 184 drove to the 190. The extra 60 Nm of torque certainly makes a difference. I love the way my current 184 behaves so I decided to have more of the same. I did not consider the S3 as it has too many things as standard that I do not want and taking fuel and everything in too account the S3 worked out over £5k more than the 184.

Aren't you very conservative ? I would never have Diesel over petrol unless doing 30k miles plus. Fuel of the devil ! S3 is way better than a TDI quattro and before you ask we have owned both.


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h5djr

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Aren't you very conservative ? I would never have Diesel over petrol unless doing 30k miles plus. Fuel of the devil ! S3 is way better than a TDI quattro and before you ask we have owned both.


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Each to his own. I have owned four petrol (1.8T) and 6 diesel (2x140, 2x170 and the last two 184). I generally go on holiday to Germany at least twice a year covering in the region of 1-2k miles and Diesel is a lot cheaper than the petrol in most of Europe which adds up to making the diesel cheaper to run overall. What I have next will depend on what Audi do with the next (2019) A3 and what engines and trims they offer. With the current models there are quite a number of things that are standard on an S3 that I would not want where as I have the choice with the 2.0TDI quattro.
 

RGBARGEE

Well-Known Member
Clearly you are a creature of habit! I travel about 6,000 miles a year in mainland Europe ( and 24,000 in the UK also in Europe) With the ridiculous Brexit fiasco and devaluation of the £ by 26% there are negligible difference in prices in France and Germany between the UK now. Italy is far higher. I have had many diesels but only when the differences in prices was greater. As for 184 Diesel vs 310 S3 or 400 RS3 .. I think the decision is based on rather more than 'a number of things standard that you don't want!! Maybe you should consider a 1.2 petrol?
 
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h5djr

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Clearly you are a creature of habit! I travel about 6,000 miles a year in mainland Europe ( and 24,000 in the UK also in Europe) With the ridiculous Brexit fiasco and devaluation of the £ by 26% there are negligible difference in prices in France and Germany between the UK now. Italy is far higher. I have had many diesels but only when the differences in prices was greater. As for 184 Diesel vs 310 S3 or 400 RS3 .. I think the decision is based on rather more than 'a number of things standard that you don't want!! Maybe you should consider a 1.2 petrol?
Why? I like the 184bhp and quattro. I also prefer 17" wheels and non-sport suspension from a comfort point of view. I also do not like black head lining or rear tinted windows for example. So there is not way I would purchase an S3. The next best from a performance point of view is either a 190 TFSI or a 184 TDI, both of which have enough performance for my driving. As I said I did test drive a 190 TFSI before I changed to my current 184TDI and found I missed to additional 60 Nm of torque that the 184 gave over the 190. I'm more than happy with my current A3 and hope that Audi offer similar with the new one. My wife has a 1.2 Polo and that is certainly lacking in performance when compared with my 184 and I certainly would not like to drive it to Germany for our holidays.

Yes I am a creature of habit! - the A3 habit with my current A3 being the tenth. But I buy the A3 because it offers me all I am looking for in the size of car I want. The only thing I am not keen on is the MMI and hopefully Audi will fit something better to the 2019 version.
 

RGBARGEE

Well-Known Member
The difference in Diesel prices between Germany and the UK is about 8p a litre, certainly not enough to convince anyone that they are making huge savings these days doing >2000 miles a year.. I agree about the black headlining and always have pano roof which really makes the car a nicer place to be. My new RS4 will have 450PS and 600Nm of torque and hopefully will have enough performance. As for having 10 A3's is that 8L, 8P, and 8V .. How long do you keep them? Seems a good way to burn money if you change so regularly and not too sure why you feel you need to, but each to their own.
 
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GeoffT

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The difference in Diesel prices between Germany and the UK is about 8p a litre, certainly not enough to convince anyone that they are making huge savings these days doing >2000 miles a year.. I agree about the black headlining and always have pano roof which really makes the car a nicer place to be. My new RS4 will have 450PS and 600Nm of torque and hopefully will have enough performance. As for having 10 A3's is that 8L, 8P, and 8V .. How long do you keep them? Seems a good way to burn money if you change so regularly and not too sure why you feel you need to, but each to their own.
I don't get why you are criticising another driver's choice of car or how and when he changes them. He has explained logically why he made his choices, the fact that they are not the same choice you would make is exactly why manufacturers make a range of cars rather than just one!
 

h5djr

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The difference in Diesel prices between Germany and the UK is about 8p a litre, certainly not enough to convince anyone that they are making huge savings these days doing >2000 miles a year.. I agree about the black headlining and always have pano roof which really makes the car a nicer place to be. My new RS4 will have 450PS and 600Nm of torque and hopefully will have enough performance. As for having 10 A3's is that 8L, 8P, and 8V .. How long do you keep them? Seems a good way to burn money if you change so regularly and not too sure why you feel you need to, but each to their own.
I purchased my first A3, which was a 1.8T (8P), in April 1998, kept it for 2.6 years and did 45k miles. The next three were also 1.8T (8P) and did a similar mileage. When Audi changed to the 8V they stopped offering the 1.8T and only offered a 2.0 which was not turbo-charged and was horrible to drive. So I tried the 2.0 TDI-140 and that was much better and I also had it with my first DSG. I kept that car for 2.6 years and did 36k miles. After that I had a further five 2.0TDI DSG, 170,140cr,170cr and then my first 2.0TDI-184 DSG quattro. All were kept for between 2 and 3 years and did 30k, 38k, 25k and 34k. I purchased another 2.0TDI-184 DSG quattro in March 2017 and intend to keep that until the new 2019 model comes out. If I like it I will probable purchase one of those.

As for 'brand loyalty' I have owned a VW or and Audi since 1976 which included five Golfs, 3 of which were GTi's and one VR6, as well as four Audi saloons, two Audi 80 Sport, a 1.8E and a 2.3E.

I have had test drives in all sorts of other cars over the years but I have not preferred anything to be VW or Audi's. They make cars that I like and that I can specify to meet my requirements. I have no wish to own anything more powerful that my current 2.0TDI-184.

Fuel cost is not important to me but the Diesels give me the type of performance I like. Plenty of torque and no need to rev the engine to get the power.
 

RGBARGEE

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In answer to Geoff's point, I do not intend to be critical. I like analysis of fact and then make informed opinion. There are several errors in h5djr posts. Firstly the 8P was introduced in 2003, my late wife had one of the first original 3door 2.0FSI 150 ps. VK53 BXD. The earlier A3 was the 8L and indeed had a 1.8T engine in 150 or 180 (quattro) form. The 1.8T was a great engine we had 2, however the 2.0FSI was a more modern unit which when turbocharged 200ps was a cracking motor and still highly regarded as the engine which in the Golf GTI gave it back its mojo.

Diesel torque was always seen as good but new petrol engines are comparable. New RS4 450Ps and 600nm torque across a wide rev range. The 8v is the current model and introduced in 2013 is unlikely to be replaced in 2019.
Personally I think vw and audi are great cars and at least we have that in common despite (based on analysis) do not concur with other points you make..sorry!
 

GeoffT

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In answer to Geoff's point, I do not intend to be critical. I like analysis of fact and then make informed opinion. There are several errors in h5djr posts. Firstly the 8P was introduced in 2003, my late wife had one of the first original 3door 2.0FSI 150 ps. VK53 BXD. The earlier A3 was the 8L and indeed had a 1.8T engine in 150 or 180 (quattro) form. The 1.8T was a great engine we had 2, however the 2.0FSI was a more modern unit which when turbocharged 200ps was a cracking motor and still highly regarded as the engine which in the Golf GTI gave it back its mojo.

Diesel torque was always seen as good but new petrol engines are comparable. New RS4 450Ps and 600nm torque across a wide rev range. The 8v is the current model and introduced in 2013 is unlikely to be replaced in 2019.
Personally I think vw and audi are great cars and at least we have that in common despite (based on analysis) do not concur with other points you make..sorry!

Whether you mean to be critical or not, you sure like to name drop your RS4! What do you think of England's chances today? Well my RS4 has 450Ps so I expect they will do well in the ruck!
 

RGBARGEE

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Whether you mean to be critical or not, you sure like to name drop your RS4! What do you think of England's chances today? Well my RS4 has 450Ps so I expect they will do well in the ruck!

I'm just a tad excited


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h5djr

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In answer to Geoff's point, I do not intend to be critical. I like analysis of fact and then make informed opinion. There are several errors in h5djr posts. Firstly the 8P was introduced in 2003, my late wife had one of the first original 3door 2.0FSI 150 ps. VK53 BXD. The earlier A3 was the 8L and indeed had a 1.8T engine in 150 or 180 (quattro) form. The 1.8T was a great engine we had 2, however the 2.0FSI was a more modern unit which when turbocharged 200ps was a cracking motor and still highly regarded as the engine which in the Golf GTI gave it back its mojo.

Diesel torque was always seen as good but new petrol engines are comparable. New RS4 450Ps and 600nm torque across a wide rev range. The 8v is the current model and introduced in 2013 is unlikely to be replaced in 2019.
Personally I think vw and audi are great cars and at least we have that in common despite (based on analysis) do not concur with other points you make..sorry!

I agree that the the 2.0TFSI was a good engine when it was turbo charged, but when it was first introduced and I test drove one in 2004 it was not turbo changed and horrible compared to my previous 1.8T. The TFSI version was not available until 2006. Yes the 1.8T was an 8L and not an 8P not that the numbers make difference. Diesel engine do have good torque and the 2.0TDI-184 has 60Nm more than the equivalent petrol engine (190TFSI) but the petrol engines are improving all the time. Which engine I have in my next car will depend on what Audi offer in the 2019 A3 but having test driven the existing 190TFSI against my current 184TDI, if I had to choose today, I will still go for the 184TDI.
 

RGBARGEE

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I agree that the the 2.0TFSI was a good engine when it was turbo charged, but when it was first introduced and I test drove one in 2004 it was not turbo changed and horrible compared to my previous 1.8T. The TFSI version was not available until 2006. Yes the 1.8T was an 8L and not an 8P not that the numbers make difference. Diesel engine do have good torque and the 2.0TDI-184 has 60Nm more than the equivalent petrol engine (190TFSI) but the petrol engines are improving all the time. Which engine I have in my next car will depend on what Audi offer in the 2019 A3 but having test driven the existing 190TFSI against my current 184TDI, if I had to choose today, I will still go for the 184TDI.
Each to their own clearly . The 8P 2.0 FSI we had in 20o3 was a fine car after the 2001 1.8T which became so wheezy we called it Marvin ( as in Hitch hikers) we then had WV05 FFG a 200 Turbo quattro Sportback, one of the best ever engines. The 190 8V is a similar motor and IMHO far nicer than a diseasel. Buying Diesel now is unlikely to make economic sense given the (not so) strong and stable Tory approach to diesels which frankly along with most government policy is based on ignorance of fact and flawed ideologies. I prefer analysis of fact but hey we are all different.
 

Steaman

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upload_2018-2-4_13-41-30.png


60 Nm more but at a narrower RPM range compared to the TFSI:s 7 gears (not 6) and 6 hp more. I doubt there is a performance difference. I have also seen tests that indicate that to petrol engine delivers between 200 and 210 hp due to unsuccessful downsizing. :yes:
 

RGBARGEE

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View attachment 147762

60 Nm more but at a narrower RPM range compared to the TFSI:s 7 gears (not 6) and 6 hp more. I doubt there is a performance difference. I have also seen tests that indicate that to petrol engine delivers between 200 and 210 hp due to unsuccessful downsizing. :yes:
Thanks for this, seems to concur with my thoughts that I wouldn't touch a Diseasel in preference to a smooth free revving and torquey petrol model especially with the 7 speed Stronic.
 

h5djr

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More gears needed to get to maximum speed. 7 needed on the 190, only 6 on the 184. Less torque equals more gear changing. As you have an inherent dislike of diesel - Fuel of the devil ! according to you then stick with petrol. I have an open mind about both fuels and will choose the engine I prefer to drive, hence my choice of 184 after driving both the 190 and the 184. My choice next time will be governed by what Audi decide to offer on the new 2019 A3 and what I prefer driving. I have no particular preference having owned 17 petrol engine cars and 6 diesels.
 

Steaman

Registered User
A diesel with automatic transmission is a nice combination in SUV:s and I love it in our MB, but here in Sweden the sale of new diesel cars has dropped dramatically during 2017, and I think the trend will continue.
But for a small care like the A3 a petrol engine that is rev happy and also has low torque it perfect.
 
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RGBARGEE

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I've just sold a 66 plate TDI A4 B9 quattro with the 190PS motor.. not a bad motorway barge but absolutely no soul and no love on my part. If you need a big barge or SUV fine, or if drive like a vicar maybe, but for a potentially spritely car like an 8V A3 I think a nippy and torquey petrol engine is ideal.
 

h5djr

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A diesel with automatic transmission is a nice combination in SUV:s and I love it in our MB, but here in Sweden the sale of new diesel cars has dropped dramatically during 2017, and I think the trend will continue.
But for a small care like the A3 a petrol engine that is rev happy and also has low torque it perfect.

Well as I said to start with, each to their own. Having driven both I much prefer the 184TDI. What will happen in the future will be up to Audi.
 

RGBARGEE

Well-Known Member
****** hell can’t any body accept that h5djr is perfectly happy with his choice of engine. Just because you have an opinion doesn’t mean it’s right!

Of course it's personal opinion, I think I and others are just pointing out some errors in his analysis/ justification. You can't hoodwink analyst types with erroneous statements ... but if anyone wants a particular spec it's their shout but us types will always challenge when opinion stated as facts are just plain wrong as in H5 case.


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TYb

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Of course it's personal opinion, I think I and others are just pointing out some errors in his analysis/ justification. You can't hoodwink analyst types with erroneous statements ... but if anyone wants a particular spec it's their shout but us types will always challenge when opinion stated as facts are just plain wrong as in H5 case.


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It’s more the fact that you keep going on and on about it, what are you expecting the car to be returned and a petrol to be ordered. You know the saying about options and a holes, just let it go.
 
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