Facelift 2.0TFSI quattro (190PS) vs. S3

DrEskimo

Registered User
So those unfortunate enough to follow my posts will know I am potentially looking at getting a A/S3 Hatch next, as I don't get to drive my S5 much at all anymore, and looking for something more practical to run around in (particularly something easier to park around my home!).

Started with the 1.4TFSI, but felt like too much of a step back, test drove and S3 and enjoyed it, but couldn't get the figures to the right amount to make switching from my S5 make sense (monthlies were all a good few quid more). In my infinite wisdom I have now thought about the 2.0TFSI quattro black edition. Had the older 2.0TFSI in my previous A5 and liked it as an engine. The one in the A3 seems more powerful, more economical and paired with quattro in the smaller A3 package it should be a good option. Perhaps a good half way between the 1.4 and S3?

Only thing is, when I compare it to the S3 I do wonder why you would go for the 2.0TFSI quattro over an S3. I am getting some figures from my dealer tomorrow, but considering the lower cost, and higher discount available compared to the S3, it should be a fair bit cheaper. Whats peoples thought on it vs the S3?

Also related, what is the physical difference in the engines between the two? Do they both share the same 2.0TFSI engine? Does the S3 have a bigger turbo? Info is pretty hard to come by given its a new engine!

Cheers! When I get my quotes I'll update this thread and provide a comparison and you can help me spend my money...I guess there will be no prizes for what most people vote for :p
 

DrEskimo

Registered User
What about resale values ?

Difficult to tell with the new 2.0TFSI. Based on Audi's GFV, after 36months and 15k miles, the 2.0TFSI will be worth 52% of the original RRP (with the spec I want) and the S3 will be worth 55% of the original RRP (again in the spec I want). So not really much in it. How this translates into actual trade value is difficult to know!

I do wonder if the 2.0TFSI is too niche though. I would imagine most will go for the 1.4TFSI or 2.0TDI if they want economy, and then the S3 if they want more power?
 

Flying Scotsman

Registered User
I looked at and drove the A3 2.0 TFSI S line Quatro which in Canada has 220hp as apposed to 190hp for UK models. Then an S3 for an additional $4,000.00 (2,350.00 quid) with pretty similar options and for me it was a no brainer. If you are happier with a softer suspension and better fuel economy than a 190hp may make more sense. Give them both a whirl and see which suits your requirements.
 

TDI-line

Uber Post Whore
I had a smilar train of thought before i ordered, and did consider the 1.4T, 2.0TQ, 2.0TDIQ, and S3, all in black edition guise.

I test drove the 1.4T, which was surprisingly quick and a great drive. The S3 was very good also, but i wasn't 100% about it.

I never drove the 2.0TQ, and already owned the 2.0TDIQ.

So started to work out what spec i wanted, and how it would cost in the variants i was interested in, to be fair i think it was about 4K between the 2.0TQ and the S3, as a base price.

Obviously there was the other factors of the S3, full leather, progressive steering, heated seats etc as standard, and then there was the option for better wheel choice for the BE.

Also i considered insurance costs, fuel costs and the desirability of the S3 with my wife being the main driver.

I decided to go for the BE 2.0TDIQ in standard form this time, as i knew what the running costs are, and has been trouble free motoring. I'm not 100% sure about the BE S3 standard wheels yet, they don't look dark enough to me, and i always liked the multi spoke ones on the standard BE.

I don't think the 2.0TQ will be too niche, and in time, there will be more on the road.

Anyway, here is a BE specced S3 with 19"s....

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/d...900&makeModelVariant1.modelId=19&pageNumber=1
 

Psyman79

Sarcasm is hard on a forum ;)
I'd got some figures for the A3 2.0tfsi with the thinking that it would be cheaper, in the end for pretty much the same spec i was working out £40 a month more than the S3.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
 

h5djr

Registered User
VCDS Map User
Gold Supporter
I test drove the 2.0 TFSI-190 s-tronic quattro to compare it with my existing 2.0 TDI-184 and I found I preferred the way the 184 drove to the 190. The extra 60 Nm of torque certainly makes a difference. I love the way my current 184 behaves so I decided to have more of the same. I did not consider the S3 as it has too many things as standard that I do not want and taking fuel and everything in too account the S3 worked out over £5k more than the 184.
 

richinsoton

Registered User
I'd possibly go for the 2.0TFSI quattro black edition if the figures were suitably lower than an S3 as it's more of a 'q car' than the S3 especially considering the unwanted attention the S3 seems to be getting from the sticky finger brigade at the moment.
 

DrEskimo

Registered User
Didn't get my quote through (surprise...) but old imagine from my rough calculation that there is £50per month between the 1.4>2.0>S3. That's quite a bit of cash to be fair...

I think if I was desperate for the S3 I would of ordered one after my test drive, but as this is a car for both me and my partner I think cost is playing a bigger role than usual. Also I've had the S5, so wonder if I've had my 'fun' so to speak! Bet I'll regret it a month down the line though!

@h5djr yea I remember reading your review of the 2.0TFSI, mainly cos it's the only one really on here! Appreciate you prefer the diesel (I had the A5 2.0TDI 190ps for a day the other week, and can see why you like the low end torque!), but I'm not much of a fan of diesels, particularly because the type and amount of miles I do don't warrant it. I'll be doing <5000 a year. So really...running costs aren't a major factor. More the cost to own/rent the thing!

I think if my dealer comes back with a very good offer on the 2.0tfsi it could be a serious contender, but will have to stack it up against the S3 deal and think hard!
 

KenL

Registered User
Don't spend too much on options. Nice to have but money down the drain in terms of residual for most options.

The s3 is a niche car that could attract a lot (too much?) attention.
 

DrEskimo

Registered User
Don't spend too much on options. Nice to have but money down the drain in terms of residual for most options.

The s3 is a niche car that could attract a lot (too much?) attention.

Like to think I'm fairly reserved. Only must haves are Daytona paint, folding mirrors and rear sensors. The comfort and sound package is excellent value on the A3.

I have a Sepang Blue S5 so think that attracts a fair bit already and haven't had any problems so far!
 

jassyo06

T-Cut King !
Don't spend too much on options. Nice to have but money down the drain in terms of residual for most options.

The s3 is a niche car that could attract a lot (too much?) attention.


Bollards ...don't be scared away from a car that's desirable to thieves..............options are there to them that can afford them...yeah dont go overboard with them but the S3 is like a desert lsland without them
 

KenL

Registered User
Bollards ...don't be scared away from a car that's desirable to thieves..............options are there to them that can afford them...yeah dont go overboard with them but the S3 is like a desert lsland without them

Just my opinion. Just because it is not the same as your's does not make it b*******
 
S

Simonb1975

Guest
In all fairness, options are for those that want/need them. None are must haves by default. A lot of people will easily waste 1k on extra stuff they don't even need
 

DrEskimo

Registered User
In all fairness, options are for those that want/need them. None are must haves by default. A lot of people will easily waste 1k on extra stuff they don't even need

Could say the same about trim levels...

I think rear sensors and folding mirrors should be standard and find them immensely useful for the narrow roads and tight parking around me. Appreciate you can fold mirrors manually but for £200 its a nice convenience...
 

h5djr

Registered User
VCDS Map User
Gold Supporter
I'm definitely in the 'options' group. My current order for a 2.0 TDI-184 has 5k of options. Most of them I had before on previous A3s including my current one and I would not want to be without them. They make an A3 in to my personal A3. I'm not that bothered about whether I get any of the cost of them back when I come to trade-in. They give me what I want during the 3 or so years I have the car.
 

RSS-S3

Registered User
So those unfortunate enough to follow my posts will know I am potentially looking at getting a A/S3 Hatch next, as I don't get to drive my S5 much at all anymore, and looking for something more practical to run around in (particularly something easier to park around my home!).

Started with the 1.4TFSI, but felt like too much of a step back, test drove and S3 and enjoyed it, but couldn't get the figures to the right amount to make switching from my S5 make sense (monthlies were all a good few quid more). In my infinite wisdom I have now thought about the 2.0TFSI quattro black edition. Had the older 2.0TFSI in my previous A5 and liked it as an engine. The one in the A3 seems more powerful, more economical and paired with quattro in the smaller A3 package it should be a good option. Perhaps a good half way between the 1.4 and S3?

Only thing is, when I compare it to the S3 I do wonder why you would go for the 2.0TFSI quattro over an S3. I am getting some figures from my dealer tomorrow, but considering the lower cost, and higher discount available compared to the S3, it should be a fair bit cheaper. Whats peoples thought on it vs the S3?

Also related, what is the physical difference in the engines between the two? Do they both share the same 2.0TFSI engine? Does the S3 have a bigger turbo? Info is pretty hard to come by given its a new engine!

Cheers! When I get my quotes I'll update this thread and provide a comparison and you can help me spend my money...I guess there will be no prizes for what most people vote for :p


The physical difference between the engines is huge!

Here is a list...


  • Cylinder head (made from a different alloy compared to other engines in this module because of higher thermal stress)
  • Exhaust valves (hollow, higher Ni content, nitrided)
  • Exhaust valve seat rings (improved temperature stability and wear resistance)
  • Exhaust camshaft (adapted valve timings)
  • Compression ratio 9.3:1 with different pistons
  • Piston cooling jets (higher flow rate)
  • High pressure injectors (even higher flow rate)
  • Exhaust turbocharger
  • Charge pressures of up to 17.4 PSI (1.2 bar)
  • High performance main radiator with 1-2 auxiliary radiators (depending on country specifications)
  • Additional acoustic modifications have been made in order to achieve a sporty sound - use of a sound actuator (for the occupant cell) and active exhaust flaps in the exhaust system
 

DrEskimo

Registered User
The physical difference between the engines is huge!

Here is a list...


  • Cylinder head (made from a different alloy compared to other engines in this module because of higher thermal stress)
  • Exhaust valves (hollow, higher Ni content, nitrided)
  • Exhaust valve seat rings (improved temperature stability and wear resistance)
  • Exhaust camshaft (adapted valve timings)
  • Compression ratio 9.3:1 with different pistons
  • Piston cooling jets (higher flow rate)
  • High pressure injectors (even higher flow rate)
  • Exhaust turbocharger
  • Charge pressures of up to 17.4 PSI (1.2 bar)
  • High performance main radiator with 1-2 auxiliary radiators (depending on country specifications)
  • Additional acoustic modifications have been made in order to achieve a sporty sound - use of a sound actuator (for the occupant cell) and active exhaust flaps in the exhaust system
Fantastic info, thank you kindly sir!
 

Daveotto

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Just my opinion. Just because it is not the same as your's does not make it b*******

I think @jassyo06 point is about the continual theme running through this forum that if you own an S3 it will get stolen for sure within a couple of years which is total bollards...IMHO

TBH I wish it was that certain as with the outlay of £100 or so in GAP insurance I could get a new S3 every couple of years :)

To the OP I had initially wanted a 184/190 Quatrro in manual but in MY2015 they took away the manual option from the high end Quattro which pushed me towards the manual S3 ....and have never regretted a minute.
 

CraigI

Registered User
I think you are asking the wrong question.
It should be S3 v 2.0 tdi or S3 v 1.4cod.

Sounds like you are in a dilemma over performance v economy.
2.0 petrol doesn't have the performance nor do you save enough over a S3.
It's a middle of the road car, that you may regret as it hits neither performance nor economy, nor would I imagine is it an overly desirable engine, so your resale will be lower.

So S3 or 1.4??????
 

pburv

Registered User
I think you are asking the wrong question.
It should be S3 v 2.0 tdi or S3 v 1.4cod.

Sounds like you are in a dilemma over performance v economy.
2.0 petrol doesn't have the performance nor do you save enough over a S3.
It's a middle of the road car, that you may regret as it hits neither performance nor economy, nor would I imagine is it an overly desirable engine, so your resale will be lower.

So S3 or 1.4??????
I have the advantage of having both S3 and 1.4 cod (Seat Leon FR) .I can tell you that the 1.4 copes well with the size of car but for some reason I don't like driving it long distances.It's a high revving engine at motorway speeds and for that reason given the choice of either then it would have to be the S3...Going from an S5 to a 1.4 I reckon would drive you nuts due to the huge difference in power loss...:friends:
 

DrEskimo

Registered User
I think you are asking the wrong question.
It should be S3 v 2.0 tdi or S3 v 1.4cod.

Sounds like you are in a dilemma over performance v economy.
2.0 petrol doesn't have the performance nor do you save enough over a S3.
It's a middle of the road car, that you may regret as it hits neither performance nor economy, nor would I imagine is it an overly desirable engine, so your resale will be lower.

So S3 or 1.4??????

It's a fair point, but I'm not even considering a diesel so that comparison isn't there.

It's not so much economy, but overall cost. The S3 is about £4K more expensive (potentially more depending on the deal I get for the 2.0tfsi). In finance this pushes me to the £400 per month mark, which is more than I want to pay with my deposit.

Maybe you're right though. Maybe the 2.0TFsI doesn't make much sense and it should be just the 1.4 vs the S3, which is substantially cheaper on all counts.

As @pburv rightly points out though...is performance too low on the 1.4 coming from a S5? Perhaps the 2.0 is a happy medium, hence the thread :p
 

DrEskimo

Registered User
I'm also keeping my eye out for a decent used model, but finding a Daytona Grey, Black Edition PFL with the tech pack is proving incredibly difficult. Even looking at sline I can't find a decent example.....
 

paulmc

Registered User
It's a fair point, but I'm not even considering a diesel so that comparison isn't there.

It's not so much economy, but overall cost. The S3 is about £4K more expensive (potentially more depending on the deal I get for the 2.0tfsi). In finance this pushes me to the £400 per month mark, which is more than I want to pay with my deposit.

Maybe you're right though. Maybe the 2.0TFsI doesn't make much sense and it should be just the 1.4 vs the S3, which is substantially cheaper on all counts.

As @pburv rightly points out though...is performance too low on the 1.4 coming from a S5? Perhaps the 2.0 is a happy medium, hence the thread :p

I came from a new M5, GTR R35, RS6 to an 8P RS3 (only lasted 1 month lol), now got a new S3 saloon (fed-up wasting huge amounts on money on fancy cars) and I cant believe how much I like it.

I am usually very hard on cars (review wise ) to the disgust of the guys who think their cars are the best in the world lol, but this thing is really really good, other than road noise which is horrible but it looks like that down to the Conti's, I cant fault it.

Great value for money compared to other cars of similar spec and performance. 40k well spec'd. New RS3 (if it ever happens) will be around 60k spec'd up. TTRS again 60k ish. MENTAL.
Fast out of the box ( I have a box on mine, pretty quick car)
Comfy (mag ride) for semi sports car
Handles great, so agile and pointy compared to the RS3 and RS6 (huge heavy car)
Right size for the rubbish "A" roads I drive on
Wife can drive it no problems
Sounds ace when booting it
Easy 35mpg prob more on a run
Cheap to insure
Subtle
Good sized boot 8P was rubbish size wise. Went on holiday couple months ago and could only get 1 case in the boot!!!
Looks nice ( I have spacers on so wheels fill the arches)
Plug and play turbo mods (if you are into that sort of thing, I am ) for easy 530bhp.
7 Speed DSG is fantastic. 99% of the time is in the right gear unlike the RS3
 

davc

1-2-4-5-3
Inow got a new S3 saloon (fed-up wasting huge amounts on money on fancy cars) and I cant believe how much I like it.

I am usually very hard on cars (review wise ) to the disgust of the guys who think their cars are the best in the world lol, but this thing is really really good

:salute:

I agree. The S3 Saloon is a cracking car.
 

jassyo06

T-Cut King !
I came from a new M5, GTR R35, RS6 to an 8P RS3 (only lasted 1 month lol), now got a new S3 saloon (fed-up wasting huge amounts on money on fancy cars) and I cant believe how much I like it.

I am usually very hard on cars (review wise ) to the disgust of the guys who think their cars are the best in the world lol, but this thing is really really good, other than road noise which is horrible but it looks like that down to the Conti's, I cant fault it.

Great value for money compared to other cars of similar spec and performance. 40k well spec'd. New RS3 (if it ever happens) will be around 60k spec'd up. TTRS again 60k ish. MENTAL.
Fast out of the box ( I have a box on mine, pretty quick car)
Comfy (mag ride) for semi sports car
Handles great, so agile and pointy compared to the RS3 and RS6 (huge heavy car)
Right size for the rubbish "A" roads I drive on
Wife can drive it no problems
Sounds ace when booting it
Easy 35mpg prob more on a run
Cheap to insure
Subtle
Good sized boot 8P was rubbish size wise. Went on holiday couple months ago and could only get 1 case in the boot!!!
Looks nice ( I have spacers on so wheels fill the arches)
Plug and play turbo mods (if you are into that sort of thing, I am ) for easy 530bhp.
7 Speed DSG is fantastic. 99% of the time is in the right gear unlike the RS3


RS3 saloon will start from £47k good spec £52k,TTRS £51,800,good spec £58k,both cars will offer a GMFV of around £27k/£29K at least, a well specced S3 saloon around £42k easily... with a GMFV £1795.... so which is the better way to go...S3 saloon is a great all rounder, but not a for someone who's already got a S3, RS3 is,yeah we throw away a bucket load of money on cars,but some car's are a tad less of waste of money than others
 

DrEskimo

Registered User
I think the biggest issue is the S5 I currently have. Although I put a bigger deposit down, I can't make sense of changing my S5 in for a S3 if the S3 costs me more per month...I know it's daft because I'm obviously putting less money up front, but I can't get over it!

I currently pay £380 for my S5 and have had it for 13/24 months of my agreement. The S5 B8.5 hasn't done great over the last few months residual wise so my equity has gone down more than I would like...I have a theory that since I'm doing so little miles, my car will have better equity if I wait another 6months. But the parking situation is already annoying me...

If the S3 could be had for £350 per month with £2k I would do it, but I'm going back to my S3 quote to see how my 2.0tfsi quote I just got sent compares to it and make a decision.

Might have to add more up front and just go for an S3...
 
G

Gordo77

Guest
I think the biggest issue is the S5 I currently have. Although I put a bigger deposit down, I can't make sense of changing my S5 in for a S3 if the S3 costs me more per month...I know it's daft because I'm obviously putting less money up front, but I can't get over it!

I currently pay £380 for my S5 and have had it for 13/24 months of my agreement. The S5 B8.5 hasn't done great over the last few months residual wise so my equity has gone down more than I would like...I have a theory that since I'm doing so little miles, my car will have better equity if I wait another 6months. But the parking situation is already annoying me...

If the S3 could be had for £350 per month with £2k I would do it, but I'm going back to my S3 quote to see how my 2.0tfsi quote I just got sent compares to it and make a decision.

Might have to add more up front and just go for an S3...

Sometimes if you're up front with the dealer and tell them where you want to be at with the deposit and monthlies, and are pretty realistic about both, (sounds like you are), they will try hard to make the sale work for you. Good luck!
 

DrEskimo

Registered User
Sometimes if you're up front with the dealer and tell them where you want to be at with the deposit and monthlies, and are pretty realistic about both, (sounds like you are), they will try hard to make the sale work for you. Good luck!

Yea I think they really are throwing everything they can at me...!

I'm getting discounts a good bit higher than my best CarWow quotes (mainly Coventry). Their trade in valuation is decent compared to the other I have got too, even if it is a bit crippling to stomach...!
 

jassyo06

T-Cut King !
Yea I think they really are throwing everything they can at me...!

I'm getting discounts a good bit higher than my best CarWow quotes (mainly Coventry). Their trade in valuation is decent compared to the other I have got too, even if it is a bit crippling to stomach...!
I spoke to a guy who had got a new S3 with mag ride and a few other small extras for £395 @month with only £1000 deposit
 

jassyo06

T-Cut King !
Names Jassy, names...!!!
Just a guy that was working alongside side me for a few weeks, it was a Nano grey S3 he got it from Glasgow Audi, it was a 3 door, a 3 door S3 is your best bet new mate, as you know it's got the highest contribution, it looked pretty good in Nano with 19"wingarms
 

Brumbrum1

Registered User
My previous car was a 2.0 petrol TT.
Loved it but needed room for the kids hence a sportback.
Went to the dealer with the intention of ordering an S3 and test drove a PFL and liked it.
Had a fit of Captain Sensible and decided my average commute in traffic didn't warrant 300hp.
I'm also of an age where I found it a bit harsh so would have ordered mag ride pushing the cost of higher.
I dismissed diesel as I love the once in a blue moon thrash to the red line.
Tried the 1.4 and liked it but just lacked a bit of go.
Ordered the 2.0 190 blind, and find it the perfect compromise.
Almost diesel torque for day to day, and smooth to the end of the dial.
Silent when cruising but a decent noise on full throttle.
I've also had 46mph on a 60 mile gentle run.
Spent the difference on the S3 price on options ( I know I lose at trade in time but I have exactly the car I wanted and that's the point when you buy new).
I've read some of the posts in favour of more torque in the top diesel and that's absolutely fair comment but I do think some of this is directed more at the very lazy 7th gear than the lack of engine flexibility (no offence intended).
Anyway, I know my purchase is a little unusual on the forum but I remain delighted with the car.
 

gamegenie

Eazy-E CPT OG from the Otherside
In the US there's an $8,500 difference between the 2.0T A3 Premium and S3 Premium plus.
They never offered the S3 in a Premium trim, only Premium-plus and Prestige
Now that the 1.8T is the 2.0T and its slightly faster, it's more confusing now here with two 2.0T, one being slower.

Audi should have delayed the facelift 8V so they could have rolled out the new engines worldwide. So we could have had 310hp S3, a 252hp A3 2.0T, and a 186hp 2.0T. Then the RS3 sedan 400hp can come along to sit on the top as king.
 

VWNCC

Registered User
My previous car was a 2.0 petrol TT.
Loved it but needed room for the kids hence a sportback.
Went to the dealer with the intention of ordering an S3 and test drove a PFL and liked it.
Had a fit of Captain Sensible and decided my average commute in traffic didn't warrant 300hp.
I'm also of an age where I found it a bit harsh so would have ordered mag ride pushing the cost of higher.
I dismissed diesel as I love the once in a blue moon thrash to the red line.
Tried the 1.4 and liked it but just lacked a bit of go.
Ordered the 2.0 190 blind, and find it the perfect compromise.
Almost diesel torque for day to day, and smooth to the end of the dial.
Silent when cruising but a decent noise on full throttle.
I've also had 46mph on a 60 mile gentle run.
Spent the difference on the S3 price on options ( I know I lose at trade in time but I have exactly the car I wanted and that's the point when you buy new).
I've read some of the posts in favour of more torque in the top diesel and that's absolutely fair comment but I do think some of this is directed more at the very lazy 7th gear than the lack of engine flexibility (no offence intended).
Anyway, I know my purchase is a little unusual on the forum but I remain delighted with the car.

I second this mentality.

If you don't need 300hp, even if it is a pretty good deal, I wouldn't go for it.

I disagree with those who said that the right question isn't S3 vs. A3 2.0T190 but S3 vs. 1.4COD. While I understand the rationale for this statement, fact is A3 2.0T 190 (or 220 in the US) is already at an acceleration level of what most people need. The 1.4 COD is noticeably slower so it does not satisfy as many. While the S3 is no doubt even quicker than the 2.0T190, but it is already at a level of overkill IMHO.

The right question is...what YOU NEED and/or WANT.
 
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