2.0 tfsi tuning frustration

Ben1413

Registered User
Hi all,

I've had my Tfsi Dynamik for a few months now and have gently been looking into the quest for more power. I'm starting to question whether its worth it.

There seems to be hardly any tuning options (exhaust, filter, fuelling) and even information about getting more power from my CDNC engine unless my go custom or import from the states.

Has anyone else found this or am I looking in the wrong places?

Many thanks,

Ben
 

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Ben1413

Registered User
Cheers for the link.

I've looked at the likes of Revo and APR, both who seem to have great reputations, meaning they are very expensive also.

Just trying to find an exhaust system is frustrating unless you go for miltek which is again, very expensive.

Ben
 

Dippy

Registered User
What exactly are you after? The best value for money tune for a turbo car is nearly always a good ECU remap. A basic remap or a piggy-back can be cheaper, but they are more "raw". They boost power but usually at a compromise - delivery is less smooth. Plus there are the hidden downsides - how do they affect reliability? For the more expensive remaps, especially APR (I am not an APR customer), you are paying for some very good engineering and testing behind the remap. Ignore that as you wish.

Everything else has diminishing returns. An uprated intake can add a bit at the top end, but only where the stock intake is restrictive, and this is not always the case for a stage 1. Similar with exhausts, if the stock is restrictive then an aftermarket one can enhance a tune. However equally they can do the opposite - if the tune is relying on a certain level of back-pressure from the exhaust system then an aftermarket one can lose power.

Some stock ECUs do advance timing for higher octane fuel, however the difference is usually insufficient to notice. It is more noticeable with a remap, and most tuners will be clear about their results with different octane.
 
100% the ROI is a remap. For ~£500, you simply won't achieve any better power increase per GBP spent. Appreciate not everyone has that money to drop into a car, but a decent exhaust is going to come in at at least half that amount.

@Dippy 's explanation is bang on.
 

Ben1413

Registered User
Really good information chaps thankyou.

Ultimately I would like 300bhp or thereabouts. I have read that the standard turbo may not be able to reach this though. I guess I'm trying to achieve something that bridges the gap between what I currently have and an S4.

I know I should have bought an S4 ideally but my budget could only stretch to a ropey, high mileage one and then there's the 'S' tax on parts and servicing.

Ben
 
A professional remap, exhaust and filter should see you getting close to 300 BHP and a huge amount of torque, which in the real world is arguably more important/generally undervalued.

BTW, if you had bought an S4 i imagine you would have looked at engine mods anyway! A remap and pulley upgrade apparently bring a huge level of power and torque over stock.
 
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Andy Butcher

Registered User
I've just an APR Stage 1 remap (no pulley) done on my 2015 S4 last Friday and the difference is night and day, 328 bhp to around the 458 bhp and from 325 Lbft torque to around 390 Lbft torque
The car was quick in standard form but now it's really woken up, especially the mid range punch, as an added bonus on a steady 75mph 25 mile cruise down the M5 last Saturday I got 37mpg.
 
That's a crazy gain, no doubt that you will feel that. Interesting that the torque increase was relatively modest. I guess it's a function of the supercharger v turbocharger.

Is it brake upgrade territory?
 

Dippy

Registered User
Be careful about extreme tuning for a limited turbo size. The reliability of a turbo is heavily influenced by its performance envelope. It may be better to upsize the turbo than push it too far. However you also need to consider if the fuel pump and injectors need uprating. Then of course there's the intercooler - the performance of a turbocharged engine is heavily dependent on intake temperature. Tuning can be a serious money pit. You wouldn't want to spend so much that it would have been cheaper to trade the car in for an S4 instead.

@Andy Butcher - did you have a dyno test? It is highly unlikely that your car had 328bhp (333PS) - most CREC cars measure at around 340bhp stock. Similarly stock torque is typically about 340-350 lbft.

@Super Nintendo Chalmers - you are correct. Turbos are more capable of creating boost than superchargers, so leaving that wastegate open for longer can have a huge effect on peak torque. But superchargers have a broader torque curve and the increase can be noticeable over more of the rev range than with a turbo engine. They also have the bonus that stage 2 is cheaper - just a new pulley and drivebelt.
 

quattrogone

Quattro Back!
Personally I'm going to go down the custom remap route, the car already has a nice aftermarket exhaust so that's a saving straight away for me.
I think I'll be aiming for something that's not going to cause me any grief....or I might not bother lol
If you want a nice exhaust upgrade that doesn't break the bank then have a look at Jetex as I had one on an Octy Vrs and it was sweet.
 

matthew999

Registered User
I own a 2014 2.0 tfsi and it was throwing a fault code relating to the actuator. Now it's gone into limp mode and my mech has diagnosed it as a worn waistgate shaft. He showed me and there is quite a bit of play. He said I can either go for a refurbed stock turbo for 450 or a hybrid turbo with the insides of an s3/golf r7 good for 350 to 380bhp for 1200. Plus fitting. After doing a little research it seems I have a ihi is20 turbo and the one from a s3 is an ihi is38. Now I don't really need 380 bhp. But it ain't half temping. There are quite a few posts on audizine where tuning the 2.0 seems s little more popular. Anyway what are people's thoughts, what could I get away with bhp wise before I have to think of other mods?

Cheers

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Baj257

Registered User
Hi all,

I've had my Tfsi Dynamik for a few months now and have gently been looking into the quest for more power. I'm starting to question whether its worth it.

There seems to be hardly any tuning options (exhaust, filter, fuelling) and even information about getting more power from my CDNC engine unless my go custom or import from the states.

Has anyone else found this or am I looking in the wrong places?

Many thanks,

Ben

Hi Ben, I live in Fareham. I went over to DMS automotive in Southampton to get my 3.0tdi mapped. Going back next month for bigger intercooler and exhaust mods. Check them out.


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Andy Butcher

Registered User
Dippy.

The figures I quoted are from the APR website and is for 98ron, I only run the car on Vpower at 99ron (not that it would make much if any difference), it also has a Ramair intake filter and a Forge intake pipe which is basically the same as MRC use on their stage 2 tune.

I will get her strapped down on a Dyno at some point to what real time figures it's making.
 

Dippy

Registered User
I own a 2014 2.0 tfsi and it was throwing a fault code relating to the actuator. Now it's gone into limp mode and my mech has diagnosed it as a worn waistgate shaft. He showed me and there is quite a bit of play. He said I can either go for a refurbed stock turbo for 450 or a hybrid turbo with the insides of an s3/golf r7 good for 350 to 380bhp for 1200. Plus fitting. After doing a little research it seems I have a ihi is20 turbo and the one from a s3 is an ihi is38. Now I don't really need 380 bhp. But it ain't half temping. There are quite a few posts on audizine where tuning the 2.0 seems s little more popular. Anyway what are people's thoughts, what could I get away with bhp wise before I have to think of other mods?

Cheers

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

Don't forget that there is a basic rule of the bigger the turbo, the bigger the lag. It doesn't look to bad for the IS38 on your platform, but it is there.

20_tsi_gen3_mqb_s0_vs_is38_in_dp_93_cw.png
 

matthew999

Registered User
Hi Dippy

thanks for your reply and finding this chart, is stock on the mk7 also an IHI is20? Am i right in guessing the lagg is where the solid line is below the dashed stock line is that correct?

thanks

matt
 

Dippy

Registered User
I'm not that knowledgeable on particular turbo brands and models. I believe Audi used the IHI RHF5 but this is also referred to as IS20.

Lag is exactly what you have noticed. You can see that up to about 2400rpm the torque will actually be lower, but fortunately not by much, and then of course it goes much higher. But based on my experience lag can be perceived differently. On the stock car the peak is at about 2500rpm. On the uprated and tuned car it will be at nearly 3500rpm. Crazy as its seems, even though the torque at 2500rpm on the tuned car is higher than it was stock, its the delay of the peak from 2500rpm to 3500rpm that you notice. It takes a bit of time to get used to.
 

Nitro_CR

Registered User
I own a 2014 2.0 tfsi and it was throwing a fault code relating to the actuator. Now it's gone into limp mode and my mech has diagnosed it as a worn waistgate shaft. He showed me and there is quite a bit of play. He said I can either go for a refurbed stock turbo for 450 or a hybrid turbo with the insides of an s3/golf r7 good for 350 to 380bhp for 1200. Plus fitting. After doing a little research it seems I have a ihi is20 turbo and the one from a s3 is an ihi is38. Now I don't really need 380 bhp. But it ain't half temping. There are quite a few posts on audizine where tuning the 2.0 seems s little more popular. Anyway what are people's thoughts, what could I get away with bhp wise before I have to think of other mods?

Cheers

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My turbo actuator has play in it as well. You can get a clip from Audi that fits onto the actuator and stops it from moving around. Not sure if it is more a short term solution rather than a long term one though...saying that an is38 turbo sounds tempting :whistle2:
 

matthew999

Registered User
My turbo actuator has play in it as well. You can get a clip from Audi that fits onto the actuator and stops it from moving around. Not sure if it is more a short term solution rather than a long term one though...saying that an is38 turbo sounds tempting :whistle2:
Oh interesting. My play is at the end of the shaft where there is a 90 degree bend and it goes inside the turbo, I assume to connect it waiste gate.( Excuse my ignorance if I got it wrong) I don't suppose u have a pic or part number. I'll try and take a pic when missus limps home form her little holiday. Cheers matt

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matthew999

Registered User
I'm not that knowledgeable on particular turbo brands and models. I believe Audi used the IHI RHF5 but this is also referred to as IS20.

Lag is exactly what you have noticed. You can see that up to about 2400rpm the torque will actually be lower, but fortunately not by much, and then of course it goes much higher. But based on my experience lag can be perceived differently. On the stock car the peak is at about 2500rpm. On the uprated and tuned car it will be at nearly 3500rpm. Crazy as its seems, even though the torque at 2500rpm on the tuned car is higher than it was stock, its the delay of the peak from 2500rpm to 3500rpm that you notice. It takes a bit of time to get used to.
Thanks dippy great explanation as always. Cheers matt

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Nitro_CR

Registered User
Oh interesting. My play is at the end of the shaft where there is a 90 degree bend and it goes inside the turbo, I assume to connect it waiste gate.( Excuse my ignorance if I got it wrong) I don't suppose u have a pic or part number. I'll try and take a pic when missus limps home form her little holiday. Cheers matt

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This is the part: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/clip/06j145220b/
I'll warn it is not easy to fit though, I had a mechanic look at it and he couldn't do it. Said he'd need a ramp, took it to another garage (Audi specialist) and they said it was a 3-4 hour job. Need to drop the engine to get at it and put the clip on. In the end I decided I'd just live with the noise it creates for now, since it doesn't seem to affect performance. Just has a bike chain rattling noise when you let off the accelerator. Hope this helps!
 

Ben1413

Registered User
I appreciate all the replies and information in this thread so far.

I've already completed a lot of preventative maintainance and have the car booked in to have the exhaust upgraded in December. I've also ordered an upgraded panel filter and am looking at intercooler upgrades to keep temps nice and cool. After that it will be a custom remap although I'm still talking to a few tuners.

Ben
 

matthew999

Registered User
I appreciate all the replies and information in this thread so far.

I've already completed a lot of preventative maintainance and have the car booked in to have the exhaust upgraded in December. I've also ordered an upgraded panel filter and am looking at intercooler upgrades to keep temps nice and cool. After that it will be a custom remap although I'm still talking to a few tuners.

Ben
Hi Ben.

What exhaust did you go for. I have just put a hybrid turbo and a wanger intercooler on my 2013 2.0 tfsi ea888 gen 3. I will get it remapped by Rick at unicorn motor developments on the 2nd of December. He recommended a custom downpipe, but I'm struggling to find one that fits my car. I was thinking maybe I just need a high flow sports cat, but again found nothing. What exhaust did you find?

Thanks

Matt

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Nitro_CR

Registered User
Hi Ben.

What exhaust did you go for. I have just put a hybrid turbo and a wanger intercooler on my 2013 2.0 tfsi ea888 gen 3. I will get it remapped by Rick at unicorn motor developments on the 2nd of December. He recommended a custom downpipe, but I'm struggling to find one that fits my car. I was thinking maybe I just need a high flow sports cat, but again found nothing. What exhaust did you find?

Thanks

Matt

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Not OP but I think a company called "Zaustworx" have pretty good reviews. Might be worth looking into?
 

matthew999

Registered User
Thanks for link. Not taking orders until new year now as they have moved premises. But they do look promising.

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matthew999

Registered User
hello all,

Just a quick update, i had the car in to be remapped yesterday and here are the results (they also mapped the DSG)

WhatsApp Image 2020-12-02 at 19.18.26.jpeg

Now i have 365bhp. so very similar power to weight ratio with an s4 with revo stage1 as they are 150kg heavier. Pretty happy with the result. The perseption of lag is more post map, as dippy mentioned. I guess its the fact that when it does come into boost its pretty brutal. The before graph is not the stock setup this is still with hybrid turbo and intercooler but how it was running before Rick got to work. I hope this helps and gives others ideas for their 225ps tfsi dervs

thanks

matt
 

Andy Butcher

Registered User
That's a very linear power curve making more power throughout the rev range, torque curve is almost identical to stock. just a lot more torques at the same point (to quote Jeremy Clarkson) .
Fun times!
 
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