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2.0 TFSI Known Oil Consumption problem - 2015 ongoing thread (2009-2011 models)

Tfsi gone Feb 6, 2015

  1. lgooch

    lgooch Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    Trade it in and just get another car. Give someone else the issue. I am sure £5k gets you into a better rather than fix the car you have.


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  3. MuPPeT_ON_TouR

    MuPPeT_ON_TouR Well-Known Member Supercharged Sportback TFSI Owners Group Team V6 Silver Supporter Audi S5 quattro Black Edition OBD11 USER Deep Black Pearl DSG

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    To believe the guy who sold it didn't know it was still using oil is BS. Your only comeback is to pursue returning it to the guy who sold it to you.

    Taken from consumers rights website...

    Second-hand car bought privately
    You have fewer rights when you buy a used car from a private seller, and key parts of the Consumer Rights Act don't apply.

    For example, there is no legal requirement for a car to be of satisfactory quality or fit for purpose.

    But contractual rules about misrepresentation do apply. So, legally, the seller must:

    • accurately describe the second-hand car. For example, an ad must not say 'one owner' when the car has had several
    • not misrepresent the second-hand car, ie tell you something about it which isn't true. For example, if it’s been in an accident, the owner mustn't tell you it hasn't.
    Car faults and history
    If you're buying from a private seller, the onus is on you as the buyer to ask all the right questions before making the purchase.

    The seller doesn't have to volunteer extra information so, if you don't ask questions, you may not have the full picture of the car's history or be aware of any potential faults.


    You asked if the work had been done....
    He told you it had... Mistakenly or not this was a lie. And the contract was broken.

    You can return it to him for your money back.
     
    CHEZ likes this.
  4. foreveraudi1

    foreveraudi1 New Member

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    I don’t understand how the dealerships work are they given an allowance for these issues
     
  5. foreveraudi1

    foreveraudi1 New Member

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    Thank you I have messaged him earlier today but no surprise heard nothing back
     
  6. foreveraudi1

    foreveraudi1 New Member

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    Any help greatly appreciated apologies for the long post it is hard to condense, as per my previous post just to refresh I bought a car privately some miles away believing it to have had an engine rebuild due to excessive oil consumption issue it is an 2010 TFSI A5 Audi .
    I have since found out that this wasn't the case and I had been misinformed by both the seller and the dealership that the seller had used for repairs and service who had mistakenly informed me that it had the repair but apparently it had only had the first fix an oil separator replacement.
    I then take to my local Audi dealership who do the 1st stage excessive oil consumption check and it fails,I am then informed that at some point the car had been chipped on speaking to Audi warranty they have said they wont help because of the chipping, all of this is a complete shock to me.

    I then go back to the Audi garage who had always maintained it and am told that it had a new ECU in 2017 and at that time Audi had deemed that now it was back to original state at that the first stage repair could be done all paid for by Audi, hence the replacement Oil separator all paid for by Audi but apparently it then passed the threshold of 600 + miles and so that appeared to have fixed the issue.

    Audi were refusing to help originally for the reason the car was chipped but when I informed them that they had already deemed the car suitable for the first fix and covered the costs for that then surely there should be an expectation that the work should be continued as it appears the first fix has now failed and the same issue still exists.

    They have suggested that if can get evidence that in some cases the first fix fails over time then I may have a case and it would be reviewed , they will only accept evidence form there own dealerships I am emailing as many as possible for information on this but non are forthcoming as yet , has anybody had any experience of this or know of any Audi dealers who may help me .
     
    MuPPeT_ON_TouR likes this.
  7. Crazyfool

    Crazyfool Lead boot

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    I’m guessing you bought the car not knowing it had been chipped, it was returned to its original performance prior to you buying it and as you say, you were informed that the repairs were completed prior to purchase.

    It sounds to me as if you are getting the run around. I would go back to Audi UK and tell them to stop p****ing you about. It’s a common issue and you were lied to when enquiring about the repair. The fact that it was chipped prior to you purchasing it , without being informed is not your problem, so the car should be repaired FOC.


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  8. Sentral

    Sentral New Member

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    Audi contributed 80% of the cost for my repair - it didn't have a full Audi service history but I went straight to Audi UK to get a case number and discussed with the dealer about the issue beforehand.

    As been said though, if the engine has been remapped then the chances are they won't cover anything.
     
  9. Fireupthequattro

    Fireupthequattro New Member

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    I've just got my car booked in for a oil consumption check and my car has been remapped recently. From reading some of this thread I see that will be a problem. If I get it restored to factory settings, will they be able to tell it was remapped at some point?

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  10. Jim TFSI

    Jim TFSI New Member

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    I'm posting mainly to help out anyone that doesn't have full service history or cannot get proof of the oil used.

    Vital statistics:
    2011 Audi A4 B8 Avant 1.8 TFSI petrol
    Approx 42000 miles on clock when it began consuming oil
    Bought privately
    Part non-Audi service history. One service stamp at 30,720 miles and another at 42,743 from independent garages.

    I bought the car privately (so no recourse) and within a few months it started drinking oil. Over the next few months I read up on the problem on this forum. I took it in for the first part of the oil consumption test, where they drain and weigh the new oil that is put in for the test. Then told to drive 600 miles or bring it back before then if the oil light comes on. Mine was going through about 300 miles to a litre at this point. It of course failed the test and we had to take the car back after a few hundred miles. Bradford Audi were good with getting it in as soon as possible. I was then asked to submit all service history, which Bradford Audi took copies of and sent off to Audi UK. Then I was also asked to get proof of the oil used from the 2 services that were stamped in the service schedule. It turned out that this had been pointless as Audi (I think Bradford) chased it up to get further evidence. I had one garage that would put on letter headed paper what specification of oil had been used vw 504 00 and the grade 5w30 fully synthetic. I never found out if all of this detail was required. The other garage wouldn't help. I sent the one proof of oil from the garage which said, we serviced this car on 27/2/18 at 42,743 miles and put the above oil in it. Audi then needed further proof than this, and approached both garages to ask for it. Why I had been asked is beyond me. They wanted the original invoice with the exact specification of oil used!?! Both garages confirmed to them they didn't keep records back from that long ago (one was last year the other from 3 years ago) or didn't keep invoices with that level of detail on them. All of this took some time and after Bradford Audi not returning calls or giving timescales, I rang Audi UK and was assigned a case manager, Kerry, who specialises in the oil consumption problem. She explained that the delay had been due to chasing up the proof of oil. I then got a call from Bradford Audi to confirm the outcome and the cost. It was explained that because proof of oil could not be obtained that I would be expected to make a 20% contribution. I was told the total was £3581, 50% covered by Audi UK, 30% covered by Bradford Audi and 20% covered by me, equalling £762. Any of you that are quick with your maths will see that £762 isn't 20%. I queried this at a later point and Kylie agreed that it will be £716.

    I then rang Kerry at Audi UK. I put every point that I could to her from this forum.

    1) Audi have admitted there is a design fault with these TFSI engines, being that they designed the piston rings too thin and therefore no-one should be charged.
    2) If this problem occurs on vehicles that have full Audi service history, then this is clearly a design fault and nothing to do with the grade of oil that has been used.
    3) It is possible that the wrong grade of oil contributed to the problem but it is also possible that it didn't. Customers should not be footing the bill on a basis such as this.
    3) A lack of proof is not evidence that the wrong oil has been used.
    4) In the US, where there is no difference between the US and European model, the people have brought a class action lawsuit against Audi where they are now required by law to repair anyone's car with the problem, free of charge. Audi should not hide behind differences in legal systems to mitigate some of their costs.
    5) I said that when I have had cars serviced previously, they will either write or tick oil change. I have never seen a garage put the exact specification on an invoice. I then asked in what percentage of cases like mine (service stamps are from independent garages, which Audi say they won't penalise customers for this) did they get the proof of oil they needed. She admitted not many, which then led me to put that basically Audi do the repair free of charge for anyone with full Audi service history and anyone else they charge for it and have to fight to lower the contribution expected.

    6) In the FAQs asked by Audi employees that I found on here, I asked how this had been applied to my case:
    When should I qualify the customer?
    a. You should do this at the outset (prior to stage 1 repair) when you can evaluate the other
    possible causes/individual circumstances.
    b. Customers should be advised of the potential cost of stage 2 repair should it be required.
    This should include a review of the vehicle’s service history. I pointed out that this had not been done in my case.
    And:
    Why are we being expected to support customers with any kind of contribution when there isn't a
    complete service history?
    b. We should be mindful that incomplete service documents may not be proof that the vehicle was serviced
    incorrectly.
    c. Incomplete service history may not be the fault of the current owner and this may be their first experience
    of the Audi network.

    7) Because my car MAY have been serviced correctly, at the right times and with the right grade of oil, but
    because I cannot get proof then I have to foot the cost of something
    that Audi have admitted is a design fault.

    8) I explained that none of this was my fault. That I had bought the car in good faith. I have treated the car
    well, have put the correct specification of oil 5w-30 fully synthetic vw 504 00, all 13 litres and counting of it it
    since I bought the car.
    9) It is also very arbitrary to ask for proof of oil from such a long time ago, when I have put so much oil in in
    the last year and yet Audi have not asked for proof of the oil I have put in.

    Almost all of my points were met with: Audi apply a criteria to each case and once applied, the expected contribution is asked for.

    I asked if I could appeal the decision or complain or have my case reviewed again and was told no as Kerry was a manager who specialised in this problem and that my only course of action was to go to the Motor Ombudsman. I spoke to the Motor Ombudsman and they said that I either need to wait at least 8 weeks or I need a final response from Audi. They provided this via email and I intend pursue this through the Ombudsman.

    I ended with saying this was a pretty poor way to treat new customers that had bought into buying a premium brand car and wouldn't buy another Audi ever again.

    Once I took it in, they said that the spark plugs had carbon build up on them and the water pump had a leak. They said that any work they would carry out would be free of labour charge. Carbon build up on the spark plugs may not necessarily have been caused by the oil problem and so I was told I would need to pay if I wanted it replacing. I realised that I should have said that if I was being charged for the oil that may have been put in the car, then they should pay for carbon build up on the spark plugs that may have been caused by the oil consumption problem. Although I didn't want to hand over any more cash than I absolutely had to, I agreed to having the water pump done and said I would replace the spark plugs myself.

    The only silver lining (of sorts) was that when it came to payment, they only wanted £519 + the cost of the water pump. I quite happily paid this thinking that it was the third correction/mistake when it came to telling me or charging me and so I'm quite happy to not tell them I was expecting the cost to be £716 when I shouldn't be being asked to pay for any of it at all.

    It's now been a month since the repair. Oil hasn't gone down yet but not holding my breath! Can I say a huge thank you to the creators/moderators/everyone who contributed to this forum for its invaluable advice. Apologies this is so long but I thought that I would try and summarise the last 40 pages for anyone in a similar position to me, hopefully saving a few people weeks/months of research!
     
    Feemy, mister.c., CHEZ and 2 others like this.
  11. Scooby_1

    Scooby_1 New Member

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    Hi guys I have just bought a audi a4 b8.5 2.0 tfsi se with 52K miles first registered in 24/10/2012 engine code CDNC will my car be affected by the oil consumption I've only had the car about 2 weeks and not really driven it as I've read the whole post and some people say it only affects 2008 - mid 2011 tfsi some some say it affects all CDNC engines
    Can any one shed some light on this issue I will be keeping an eye o the oil level now as am paranoid by this now
     
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  13. Scooby_1

    Scooby_1 New Member

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    Hi guys I have just bought a audi a4 b8.5 2.0 tfsi se with 52K miles first registered in 24/10/2012 engine code CDNC will my car be affected by the oil consumption I've only had the car about 2 weeks and not really driven it as I've read the whole post and some people say it only affects 2008 - mid 2011 tfsi some some say it affects all CDNC engines
    Can any one shed some light on this issue I will be keeping an eye o the oil level now as am paranoid by this now
     
  14. mjharper

    mjharper New Member

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    Just purchased an A4 2.0 TFSI 2010 - Got a courier to deliver it (approx 200 miles) and noticed the oil warning was on in the MMI. My exhaust tips are a bit black - guess it's going to be well out of warranty, do I have any leverage with AUDI? Thanks
     
  15. mjharper

    mjharper New Member

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    Hi Jim,
    I've just got a 2010 TFSI - do I still have any leverage with AUDI? My trade seller said it has full service history, I'm just trying to get it listed on the audi portal

    Thanks

     
  16. Abbo88

    Abbo88 New Member

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    I am new to this forum but have read all 40 pages of this thread.

    I recently bought a 2009 A4 with this problem (which I didn't realise till a couple of weeks after). Having read countless different stories I got the car booked in at my local Audi dealer for the oil consumption test knowing it would fail miserably, its using a litre of oil every 700 miles or so. They have confirmed it will need new pistons, con rods, software update etc.. total repair cost will be in the region of £6/7k. Audi UK are covering 100% of the cost. Booked in at the end of this month for the engine rebuild, and a courtesy car.

    My car is a 59 plate with 72k on the clock and a full Audi dealership service history. Unmodified.

    I would say you have plenty of leverage especially if it has full service history. This is a known fault with Audi UK. I made it clear to them I was aware of this and that its all over forums etc with other customers in similar situations have their repair bills covered, and that I expected my case to be treated in the same way. To be fair to them they agreed to covered the costs straight away without any hint of an argument, I cant fault them for that.
     
    Feemy and CHEZ like this.
  17. mjharper

    mjharper New Member

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    Glad you've been able to sort this out. My dealer/trader lied about full service history so I've rejected the car (Audi wouldn't go near it as expected)

    I understand your praise but I think this should have been a recall. They've already settled a class action lawsuit in the states and there is a definite engine defect / design flaw in 09 - 11 models. I recently discovered my friend has an 09 A5 with exactly the same problem
     
  18. satis

    satis New Member

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    Had my 2011 A4 for about 3 yrs with now 55k on the clock. Had a oil consumption test soon after I got it and amazingly it passed. Back then it did about 2000 miles before needing oil. Then it went down to 1700 and yesterday the warning light came on after just 1000 miles. So it looks like I now have a problem. It has FSH with Audi and I remember them telling me back then that if I notice it getting worse (which it has) to bring it back in for another test. Got my MOT with them next week, so will mention it to them.
     
  19. Jim TFSI

    Jim TFSI New Member

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    Hi mjharper, sorry for the late reply. If you bought it from a dealer, you should have 3 months in which to go back to them because they sold it to you with a fault, they should take it back or offer to pay for repairs with Audi. Does it have full Audi service history? If so, you've got no problems at all. Take it to them with the service stamps and the work (only for rectifying the oil problem) should be free of charge. If not, kick off with Audi customer services and it will get sorted. If you have got FSH from any non-Audi garages they will ask for proof of the oil that was put in. As I found, very hard to get or impossible. If this is the case, you will be asked for a 10-20% contribution (hopefully no more, but depends on service history).

     
  20. BillyP

    BillyP New Member

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    Hey team new here... just bought myself a A4 Dynamik Avant and within two weeks I’ve been bitten by Audi’s great customer care and even greater piston rings ha
     
  21. BillyP

    BillyP New Member

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    Unless someone wants to be bored by the details I have a lovely A4 B7 Avant tdi but thought I’d upgrade to its younger, sportier brother.

    two weeks into ownership realised that the oil consumption was out of this world, with some tw2t on reception that .5l per 600 miles is very normal.

    BTW I was using 5l every 900 miles and I’ve just paid a recon firm £3k to fix the problem.

    wish me luck
     
  22. CHEZ

    CHEZ moderately amusing Supporter

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    Whoa!
    That's a first in this thread I reckon.
    You actually paid someone to fix this for you all off your own bat, and it hasn't worked?
    Did I get that right?
     
    BillyP likes this.
  23. BillyP

    BillyP New Member

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    Car came back yesterday so I’ll report back to whether it worked.. I had to get it fixed and Audi wouldn’t help
     
  24. CHEZ

    CHEZ moderately amusing Supporter

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    Aah right ok, I am on the same page now.
    I would be very upset if it hasn't worked mate, given the cost.
    I take it you got zero Joy from Audi before you went down that route?
    What was there reason?
     
  25. BillyP

    BillyP New Member

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    New sleeves, oil pump, 3 new Conrods, crankshafts, pistons rings replaced, main and big end bearing are replaced, cylinder head is then stripped down and checked for wear, cracks and for trueness then pressure tested and resurfaced as necessary. Valve guides were checked for wear and replaced as necessary, valve seats are cut.
    Timing Chain Kit replaced, new head gasket
     
    CHEZ likes this.
  26. BillyP

    BillyP New Member

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    Car had 100K miles so they said it’s normal wear, my warranty company paid sweet f-a and the dealer I bought it off chipped in 50%
     
    CHEZ likes this.
  27. CHEZ

    CHEZ moderately amusing Supporter

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    Fair play sir and well done.
    That's commitment.

    Only one thing would bother me though, is why 3 and not four rods?
    That would affect my OCD lol
     
  28. BillyP

    BillyP New Member

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    I know I know, same but they checked them (apparently) and only 3 were screwed
     
  29. mjharper

    mjharper New Member

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    After winning a section75 claim my 2010 A4 is currently getting fixed, along with the rods, pistons and oil pump they said:
    Hope that sorts it!

    Btw anyone want to buy a type-r?

    :D
     
    CHEZ likes this.
  30. BillyP

    BillyP New Member

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    What mileage?
     
  31. mjharper

    mjharper New Member

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    The Audi? 61k
     
    BillyP likes this.
  32. JakeW-96

    JakeW-96 New Member

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    Hi all, sorry I just want to ask a quick question before reading through 40 pages! Im looking at a 2009 A4 2.0 TFSI for sale. It has 100k on it and not full service history. It does have a receipt from Audi for the engine rebuild in 2015 at 50k. The worrying thing is it has a further receipt from Audi for repair of oil separator and reseal camshaft carriers. This is in 2018 at 88k.
    From what I’ve read, I thought the oil separator was the first attempt of a fix? So is it strange that this is after a rebuild? Are revised parts used in the rebuild that cure the problem completely or is it likely to consume oil again later on?
    Reading about this issue is really making me consider going for a 2.0 TDI but I would prefer the TFSI if the rebuild rectifies the problem completely.
    Thanks
    Jake
     
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  34. CHEZ

    CHEZ moderately amusing Supporter

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    I think you will be safe as you have documented evidence that the repair was done therefore it won't drink oil.
    That ultimately is the main problem with these faulty engines.
    The car you mentioned, was repaired 4 years ago
    Wear and tear would probably have caused these parts to fail.
    The warranty Audi provide is only 2 years, so pretty much the engine is sorted.
    The level of repair carried out ranges from car to car.
    From a bottom end piston replacement to full engine replacement.
    I was lucky to have an engine replacement, but, that was all.
    The engine.
    All ancillaries i.e. turbo, injectors , pcv etc were all swapped over from my original engine and around a year ago my pcv split.
    Very common problem and only a rubber diaphragm that splits.
    Cost me about £80 and 10 mins to replace.
    Like I said earlier, things wear out naturally over time with wear, so as long as the car is not using oil, I would say you have nothing to worry about regarding the repair and oil use.
     
  35. JakeW-96

    JakeW-96 New Member

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    The car is also about 250 miles away so a fair drive if I decide to purchase. That’s good to know that it’s seen as a permanent fix as far as the oil consumption is concerned then.
    Perhaps when buying a second hand TFSI, it may be better to get one with proof that the rebuild has been carried out as it may save me some hassle down the line!
     
  36. CHEZ

    CHEZ moderately amusing Supporter

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    Definitely mate.
    Always make sure the repair has been done.
    Do not even consider one without any proof as ALL these engines were affected.
    I often ask traders on eBay if the repair has been done and the usual rubbish I get answers with is, " it's all been checked out by a mechanic as ok" or, " it's perfectly fine".
    Walk away.
    You need proof
     
    BillyP likes this.
  37. BillyP

    BillyP New Member

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    Jake don’t do it. Even when these engines are repaired they use too much oil. Tdi is a dream machine with less snags. I had a warranty and they wiggled out of paying towards any further problems with the engine.
     
  38. JakeW-96

    JakeW-96 New Member

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    Really? Thanks for the advice. Sounds like they may be best avoided then! The particular car I was looking at has the receipt for rebuild but 4 years ago and 50k miles. Doesn’t sound like it’s worth the risk.

    I was looking at petrol as my daily commutes are only around 5 miles. Also prefer a bit more power. Not sure if the TDI 140 may feel sluggish, even the 170. 3.0 TDI would be ideal but don’t see many of them about!
     
  39. Briyasan

    Briyasan New Member

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    I owned a B8 09 plate 2.0t A4 Avant which had the engine repaired at 65k by Audi. They do drink oil but I won't say excessive like before. By the end of each 10k service schedule, it used just above a quarter of oil, which is acceptable. My work is less than 5 miles from home hence the 2.0t is the perfect car for me.

    Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
     
  40. CHEZ

    CHEZ moderately amusing Supporter

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    Mine doesn't use a drop between services.
    Not a drop.
    I switched from a diesel A4 to my TFSI A5 because of short journeys, the A4 just wasn't getting warm which, can be trouble with a diesel.
    A good rule of thumb regarding whether a diesel is viable is 20 mins or 20 miles per journey.
    If you're not doing them figures then a diesel is pointless.
    A fixed TFSI is a beautiful engine.
    Smooth, quiet and just how they should have been.
     
  41. Boundy

    Boundy Active Member Bronze Supporter S-line owners group Monza Silver

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    I changed to my B8 Tfsi after my wife's commute fell considerably and her journey to work is now only a mile each way. My previous car, a 2013 Octavia vRS diesel, was not getting a decent run and I noticed an increase in dpf regen. It took me about 3 months to track down a decent S-Line Avant. After doing a bit of research ahead of the purchase, I made sure I found a 1 owner, full Audi history car. It was marked in the service book that it had been rebuilt in 2015@ 50k but I had no proper invoice, so I phoned Lookers in Guildford and they confirmed that they had replaced the pistons, conrods, bearings, oil pump and cam chain tensioner. The guy in the phone told me I had a good car, he knew the previous owner and said at its last service it also had a pair of front shocks, springs and suspension bushes. I'm so glad I held out for a decent petrol.
     

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