2.0 TDI oil pump / balance shaft failure?

Guys, I have just brought a 2005 A4 2.0TDi S Line with 50k on the clock with FULL Audi history. Is there any chance that someone could find out for me if I have this chain problem?

I'm a bit hesitant in giving my VIN and engine number so if I could email it over to someone who can check for me I would appreciate it very much so.

Many thanks in advance!!
 
Hello

I am new here and I have an A6 2007 BRE with 161Kmiles. I went to local Audi today and they printed out my oil pump details (ETKA). It says mine fitted with 100mm hex (03G 115 281E) . Is that possible? Do I need to worry about pump failure in this case?

thanks in advance
 
Hi guys.

My 2007 2.0TDi PD140 A3 8P had a low oil light on the motorway the other day. I pulled up a mile later to check the oil which seemed to be just under max. I put in around 50-100ml just to be on the safe side.

Now I've noticed that my turbo has started whistling excessively. Anywhere from 1800rpm you can hear a siren sound which you never could before.

When it's under load, anywhere above 2200rpm it's a really high-pitched whistling sound.

Had the car checked by a garage and supposedly the turbo seals are gone and potentially a balancer shaft issue.

Does my engine have the balancer shaft issue?

Any help would be appreciated. Many thanks!
 
Hi all, sorry to bring up a bit of an old thread. Just stumbled across this and it's got me a bit concerned. I have a November 2006 registered (56 plate) Audi A4 B7 2.0TDI Quattro S-Line with the BRD engine which just crossed over to 74,000 miles on the clock as of yesterday.

From reading most of this thread I can pretty safely presume I have the gear driven oil pump which is a good start, but it is still prone to the hex key rounding somewhere between 70k - 130k and as I have just recently crossed into the "danger zone" mileage I would like to get this sorted sooner rather than later.

I noticed most people replace just the balance shaft & hex key. However I have seen Volksmine sell a full balance shaft assembly with modified balance shaft and longer hex key for a total of £350. Has anyone used Volksmine? Are they any good? Was just thinking that if I replace the entire assembly I may not require the special balance shaft alignment tool or new bolts for the 2 halves of the assembly. The money saved there would go towards the extra £120 of the full modified balance shaft assembly over just the price of a new shaft and will also hopefully make the install a bit simpler as well.

Also, my mum has a newer (2013) B8 A4 with the 2.0 TDI engine. Do these suffer the same issue or did Audi fix the problem by then?

I am handy with the spanners, but does anyone have a "How-To" so I can see what is involved with this job? Don't want to just dive in without reading it through a couple of times.

Thanks!
 
I got a service manual off flee bay on cd (ELSAWIN). It basically gives you the breakdown of how to remove the balance shaft oil pump. It also gives torque settings. If I were you I'd get one too and decide if you think you are capable of doing it or not. I think it's what the fitters use in Audi garages it's like an idiots guide!
I have a 2.0 tdi with a blb engine, I decided to do a balance shaft delete (basically put in an oil pump that doesn't have the balance shafts but it's more work than just replacing the pump itself which is done a lot in the states).
You'll have to remove the front lights, bumper, move crash panel forward. You'll need a decent set of axle stands and a decent jack as you've got to drop the subframe to get to the sump. It sounds worst than it is, if you can spare 4 days then you should have loads of time.
I also got an oil pressure gauge to check the pressure following the delete but as you are replacing like for like you shouldn't need to bother with this.
If you decide not to do it and the oil warning light comes on when you are driving then top your car immediately and get it towed home or to a garage and hopefully you'll have caught it before it causes fatal engine damage.
Good luck, interested to see how you get on.
 
Sorry for hijacking an old thread but sounds like you lot know a thing or 2.
Ive just purchased my 2005 audi a4 avant 2.0 tdi s-line las week from a private sale of a mechanic/garage owner. Its covered 82k with fsh and HAS had the head and oil pump replaced due to the common failure happening.

Ive noticed a horrible annoying rattle/engine noise coming from low rpm upto 2000rpm. Once past 2000rpm it doesnt happen and sounds normal.
The car drives smooth and solid and pulls like a train so it isnt affecting performance,yet!
Just wondered if anyone could take a listen to the noise i have recorded.
It sounds especially rough before 2000rpm if you listen carefully.
Could it have been timed up poorly? Or something more serious?
Thanks
 
Chops77 said:
Sorry for hijacking an old thread but sounds like you lot know a thing or 2.
Ive just purchased my 2005 audi a4 avant 2.0 tdi s-line las week from a private sale of a mechanic/garage owner. Its covered 82k with fsh and HAS had the head and oil pump replaced due to the common failure happening.

Ive noticed a horrible annoying rattle/engine noise coming from low rpm upto 2000rpm. Once past 2000rpm it doesnt happen and sounds normal.
The car drives smooth and solid and pulls like a train so it isnt affecting performance,yet!
Just wondered if anyone could take a listen to the noise i have recorded.
It sounds especially rough before 2000rpm if you listen carefully.
Could it have been timed up poorly? Or something more serious?
Thanks
Click to expand...


Can you here this noise when the cars ticking over or is it when it's moving?
My a4 2.0 tdi suffers from a rattly air con pully, you can here it when it's idling but not when revs are past 2k.
Bit irritating at traffic lights but I live in Devon and there aren't many, I can't be bothered replacing the compressor unit just coz of a rattle. Maybe you've got the same problem?
 
Thanks for the reply.
Its not the air con pulley,as even when the air con is switched off it still makes that noise.
Its only when driving under load that it makes the noise.
However there is a slight flywheel noise on idle but this sounds completly different!
 
Chops77 said:
Its not the air con pulley,as even when the air con is switched off it still makes that noise.
Click to expand...

Even when the air con is off inside the car the belt is still turning the air-con pulley......
 
Sturat said:
I got a service manual off flee bay on cd (ELSAWIN). It basically gives you the breakdown of how to remove the balance shaft oil pump. It also gives torque settings. If I were you I'd get one too and decide if you think you are capable of doing it or not. I think it's what the fitters use in Audi garages it's like an idiots guide!
I have a 2.0 tdi with a blb engine, I decided to do a balance shaft delete (basically put in an oil pump that doesn't have the balance shafts but it's more work than just replacing the pump itself which is done a lot in the states).
You'll have to remove the front lights, bumper, move crash panel forward. You'll need a decent set of axle stands and a decent jack as you've got to drop the subframe to get to the sump. It sounds worst than it is, if you can spare 4 days then you should have loads of time.
I also got an oil pressure gauge to check the pressure following the delete but as you are replacing like for like you shouldn't need to bother with this.
If you decide not to do it and the oil warning light comes on when you are driving then top your car immediately and get it towed home or to a garage and hopefully you'll have caught it before it causes fatal engine damage.
Good luck, interested to see how you get on.
Click to expand...

I've got ElsaWin also, but why pay someone on eBay when the same software can be obtained from other "usual" sources for free. ;) Especially when the seller probably obtained it for free also.

From all the reading I've done on the subject from various sources (ElsaWin included) it doesn't seem like a terrible job, but some bits are maybe a bit awkward. Like dropping the subframe and even removing the sump bolts near the flywheel some like they might be a pain. However I'm planning to attempt it in the next month or so and replace the balance shaft / hex key with KMB Kit 9 which is what they have advised for my BRD engine.
 
Is the aur con pulley associated with the auxillary belt?
If so,then that has been take off and the noise still happens!

Just out of interest,where is the balance shaft located? Would/should it have been replaced if i have already had a new head and oil pump replacment?
 
Chops77 said:
1. Is the aur con pulley associated with the auxillary belt?
If so,then that has been take off and the noise still happens!

2. Just out of interest,where is the balance shaft located? Would/should it have been replaced if i have already had a new head and oil pump replacment?
Click to expand...

1. Yes, its on the aux belt, so if its been taken off and you still have the noise it is not that.

2. The balance shaft module is at the bottom of the engine block, inside the sump. When they replaced the oil pump and head they would not have to change the balance shaft assembly also. They should have, but chances are they did not as it is not a serviceable part, however it is a part that is known for failing!

You can drop the oil, put a small inspection camera up through the oil drain plug and you will see the balance shaft module. If you see a chain at the front of it (towards front of the car) it has not been changed and chances are that is what you are hearing, rattly chain with a broken tensioner which will catastrophically fail in the near future, potentially killing the whole engine with it.

If you see a gear driven mechanism on the balance shaft, then it has been changed and what you are hearing is not the rattly chain. All you need is a £10 eBay USB inspection camera with LED's on the front to light up inside the engine, and then raise the car, drop the oil and have a look.
 
Benten69 said:
1. Yes, its on the aux belt, so if its been taken off and you still have the noise it is not that.

2. The balance shaft module is at the bottom of the engine block, inside the sump. When they replaced the oil pump and head they would not have to change the balance shaft assembly also. They should have, but chances are they did not as it is not a serviceable part, however it is a part that is known for failing!

You can drop the oil, put a small inspection camera up through the oil drain plug and you will see the balance shaft module. If you see a chain at the front of it (towards front of the car) it has not been changed and chances are that is what you are hearing, rattly chain with a broken tensioner which will catastrophically fail in the near future, potentially killing the whole engine with it.

If you see a gear driven mechanism on the balance shaft, then it has been changed and what you are hearing is not the rattly chain. All you need is a £10 eBay USB inspection camera with LED's on the front to light up inside the engine, and then raise the car, drop the oil and have a look.
Click to expand...
Hi again and thanks for the info. I know that the oil pump was replaced with the newer conversion to the gear driven pump, so does that illiminate the balance shaft failure?
 
Chops77 said:
Hi again and thanks for the info. I know that the oil pump was replaced with the newer conversion to the gear driven pump, so does that illiminate the balance shaft failure?
Click to expand...

Older (pre-2010) gear driven modules can also fail. They have a 6mm hex key which is 77mm long that connects the balance shaft to the oil pump. This hex key is not always a good fit or properly hardened, so it can round off or the hex hole in the balance shaft can round and you will lose oil pressure if that happens.

Newer (post 2010) balance shaft modules have 100mm hex keys. This extra 23mm extends into the balance shaft. Both the shaft and the hex keys are properly hardened and of a much tighter tolerance in these new modules.

Without removing the sump and taking out the hex key to measure it (can be done with balance shaft module in place) you have no way of knowing if you have a 77mm hex that is nearing the end of its life and starting to round off or a newer 100mm hex that will give you many thousands of miles of trouble free motoring.

I would like to assume that if the balance shaft module was replaced recently then it would be a 100mm version, but you will never know unless the person who did the work can tell you or you have receipts, etc for parts. Unless of course you remove the hex key and measure it.

If you have a geared module, then that won't be causing your rattles and you'll need to look elsewhere to fix that issue unfortunately.
 
Benten69 said:
Older (pre-2010) gear driven modules can also fail. They have a 6mm hex key which is 77mm long that connects the balance shaft to the oil pump. This hex key is not always a good fit or properly hardened, so it can round off or the hex hole in the balance shaft can round and you will lose oil pressure if that happens.

Newer (post 2010) balance shaft modules have 100mm hex keys. This extra 23mm extends into the balance shaft. Both the shaft and the hex keys are properly hardened and of a much tighter tolerance in these new modules.

Without removing the sump and taking out the hex key to measure it (can be done with balance shaft module in place) you have no way of knowing if you have a 77mm hex that is nearing the end of its life and starting to round off or a newer 100mm hex that will give you many thousands of miles of trouble free motoring.

I would like to assume that if the balance shaft module was replaced recently then it would be a 100mm version, but you will never know unless the person who did the work can tell you or you have receipts, etc for parts. Unless of course you remove the hex key and measure it.

If you have a geared module, then that won't be causing your rattles and you'll need to look elsewhere to fix that issue unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Brilliant reply and helpfull.
The work on my car was done at an independant garage, he has all the invoices and reciepts for the work that was done,which im still waiting for him to send me.
All i know for sure is that they replaced the head and oil pump (newer geared pump)
Guess i will have to wait to see the list of paper work first rather than spending hundreds at a garage.

Just on a back note, i work at a vw dealership and the mastertech took it out for a test drive. He couldnt determine what the noise was but suggested it might have been badly timed up when they replaced the head or it could possibly be flywheel related?!?!
 
Chops77 said:
Just on a back note, i work at a vw dealership and the mastertech took it out for a test drive. He couldnt determine what the noise was but suggested it might have been badly timed up when they replaced the head or it could possibly be flywheel related?!?!
Click to expand...

Timing is a possibility, get the timing checked and see if it's good or if it's out. Won't be too much effort to just check all the marks line up. Aux belt need to come off, then remove the crank pulley, timing covers and rotate by hand to check the timing marks line up.

As for the DMF, I would have expected that to make noise regardless of revs, but I may be wrong. First check the timing, it's easier and cheaper than checking or replacing the DMF.
 
@Benten69 did you listen to the noise in my video?
It baffles me as to why the noise goes after 2000rpm!
 
@Chops77
Have you ran a diagnostic tool on it? I had a similar noise but much more frequent and it was the EGR Valve in the end.

Also I have read lots on these 2.0 TDI engines but still can't get a definitive answer. I am looking to tune my car but don't want to if the oil pump is just going to ruin my fun.

My car is A4 Avant SLine with 140k miles on it. Engine code is BRE. I tried the Audi VIN search to find out what is installed but sadly it says my VIN is not recognised. I know I was typing it in correctly as I have tried it on a VIN decoder and it gave me all the information.

Any help with this would be awesome, I have read through this post but still not having any luck.
 
Smudge6446 said:
@Chops77
Have you ran a diagnostic tool on it? I had a similar noise but much more frequent and it was the EGR Valve in the end.

Also I have read lots on these 2.0 TDI engines but still can't get a definitive answer. I am looking to tune my car but don't want to if the oil pump is just going to ruin my fun.

My car is A4 Avant SLine with 140k miles on it. Engine code is BRE. I tried the Audi VIN search to find out what is installed but sadly it says my VIN is not recognised. I know I was typing it in correctly as I have tried it on a VIN decoder and it gave me all the information.

Any help with this would be awesome, I have read through this post but still not having any luck.
Click to expand...

sorry to jump on but whats the audi vin search ?and what info will it tell?
 
@Smudge6446 if you call KMB with your VIN they will help you determine exactly what balance shaft module you had fitted out of the factory.

However being a BRE engine I'm willing to bet a geared module with 77mm hex key.

You'll need to get it replaced either way as Audi only started using 100mm hex keys from 2010 onwards with the CR engines.

No way to tell if a previous owner has done it unless you take the sump off and check or have receipts for the work.

Website for KMB....

http://www.kmbpartsdirect.co.uk/
 
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Five years ago I traded my 56-plate B7 (2.0, BRE engine) in at 78,000 in response to the oil pump issue - out of interest I typed the reg no into the government MOT site and she's still going strong at 140k now. So either it hasn't gone (yet),, it was one of the "good" ones, or the subsequent owner had the mod done.

Although dig around eBay and there seems to be a disproportionate amount of major modules and second hand expensive bits for the B7 2.0TDI for sale from cars that have been scrapped. So there still must be a lot of them out there that expired and their owners gave up on.
 
A4 B8 2008 (58 plate) CAGA engine code (143hp)...

Shaft failed!
 
Engine still running well, but yes, I turned it off quickly. Drove 2 miles to find a parking space, as I was on a busy road, but had green flag take me home and didn't start the engine ever since. I've been told by many people no damage can occur in 2 miles, especially since I'm using duralube.

77mm, 137k miles, castrol edge every 10k miles, very well maintained car, never driven below 2000rpm and always warmed up engine. Original DPF still shows new-like values and the exhaust pipes are clean! Just to give you a hint of how it normally drives.

Will see how much it costs. I was planning to do the work myself, but don't have special tools to refit the subframe.
 
Typical milage for failure is 80 - 150K .
Some as early as 50K , some as late as 400K .

There was a myth years ago that common rail were sorted , but that was busted when some early ones turned out to have the inferior 77mm .
 
Unfortunately they do. According to some stories, they only fixed the problem on later engines, starting 2010...
 
aoleks said:
Engine still running well, but yes, I turned it off quickly. Drove 2 miles to find a parking space, as I was on a busy road, but had green flag take me home and didn't start the engine ever since. I've been told by many people no damage can occur in 2 miles, especially since I'm using duralube.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be so sure of that (part highlighted in bold). Engine damage can occur in seconds, turbo damage will occur first though. Also, its not about distance covered, it's about time. If it took you 10 seconds to cover those 2 miles, then it will likely be fine, if it took you 30 minutes then chances are the engine has had it. Time is of the essence when you get the low oil pressure warning.

If I were you I would also buy some new conrod & main bearing bolts and take off the ones nearest the gearbox to inspect them. They tend to be the ones that get damaged first. If you take them off and the bearings are fine, just re-fit with new bolts and job done, if there is obvious signs of metal on metal contact due to being run with no oil pressure then you've got a bigger problem on your hands, but you'll never know until you open it up.

As for subframe alignment tool, looking at the workshop manual here....

http://workshop-manuals.com/audi/a4...rame_shield/removing_and_installing_subframe/

You don't need an alignment tool for the B8, only the B7. The B8 manual says to just use a paint pen or similar to mark the original position then re-align at the end in the same place.

You will need an engine support bar though! However I got a 500kg one from a German outfit on eBay that arrived in 2 days and only cost £50.

Gazwould said:
Typical milage for failure is 80 - 150K .
Some as early as 50K , some as late as 400K .

There was a myth years ago that common rail were sorted , but that was busted when some early ones turned out to have the inferior 77mm .
Click to expand...

Yup, engines built pre-Feb 2010 still uses the 77mm hex....
 
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