2.0 TDI DPF short journeys. what options to fix?

[cypher007]

if I use a 2.0 TDI for short journeys what sort of options are out there to negate DPF problems?

some thoughts are DPF kind remap or removable DPF, replace for MOT.

 

[DrEskimo]

Buy a petrol...

The negligible cost savings from slightly higher MPG (wont see that much higher figures with just town driving anyway...) would be offset by the heavier deprecation, not to mention the headache of potential EGR and DPF issues.

How many miles on average are you expecting to do? If it's not many, then fuel economy is the least of your concerns when it comes to cost, so unless you really just love the way a diesel drives, I don't see why you would bother?

 

[cypher007]

I have a Toledo 1.0 TSI 3 pot that I bought new, as was the same price as used A5, and been regretting it ever since. I went from a Leon 2003 TDI doing 45mpg urban shuffle to petrol Toledo doing anything between 28-40 on the same route.

on a motorway run the Leon would do 65-70 the way I drive (slow 60mph), but so far only seen 54mpg on A roads from the petrol.

I think petrol engines are just not suited to being sat idling. stop/start is a waste of time and petrol as if I leave it on I seem to use more fuel, as I'm guessing I'm not stopped long enough and it uses more to restart the engine.

 

[DrEskimo]

Sure, but how many miles per year do you actually do? The lower it is, the lower any cost savings will be.

For example, assuming petrol is 2p per litre cheaper, and that a diesel will achieve 10MPG more than the petrol, the cost savings over a year doing 10,000 miles is only about £320....

 

[cypher007]

I guess, but to get any economy or performance I'm having to use momentum 99 which is the same price as diesel. the 1.0 just has no power unless the turbo's spun up.

I don't know I went round chasing my tale over what to get when I sold the Leon.

 

[DrEskimo]

I guess, but to get any economy or performance I'm having to use momentum 99 which is the same price as diesel. the 1.0 just has no power unless the turbo's spun up.

I don't know I went round chasing my tale over what to get when I sold the Leon.

Well personally, when I was doing low miles I used that to my advantage and quite happily ignored MPG, since it was such a negligible cost over all. I had an S5 for 2yrs and that only managed 22MPG, but didn't bother me as I only averages 7k miles

As is the case most of the time, but even more so at low mileage, deprecation will always be the biggest cost, so I would look to minimise that first and forth most. Look for a decent used model with strong residuals. With the way diesels are getting vilified (whether justified or not is for you to decide), I personally don't see them holding much value over the long-term based on data I have seen on new car registrations and used car price trends.

If you do indeed do <10k per year, just get whatever you enjoy driving mate....potentially something with more grunt than a 1.0 3 pot
I had a 2.0TFSI A5 (09 plate) prior to my S5 and that did well on motorways. I could happily see returns of 30MPG+ and 180PS was decent power for me. The FWD did annoy me a bit, as did the turbo lag (hence the move to a S5 with quattro and supercharger!), but only really minor.

But then I would never consider a diesel, as 1/I can't stand the racket they make and 2/ Never did the miles that made them economical.

 

[cypher007]

thanks mate.

yes i only do about 5-6k a year. we have onther car, 2003 Toledo TDI, and that's even more frugal than the old Leon. but that's the wifes car to maintain.

hence why i was looking for something with similar economy to the Leon, with cheaper VED, i bought the Toledo and then discovered its £140 VED so higher than the £135 of the Leon .

i love the look of the A5 with newer headlights, but i don't like the new shape. its just screwing me up every time i see one.

its like my heart says A5 and my head says Nissan Leaf.

 

[DrEskimo]

2013-2016 A5 2.0TFSI (252PS) quattro Black edition

https://usedcars.audi.co.uk/usedcar...hp-all-wheel-drive-grey-1_GBR00149330444.htm#

About £600 more a year in fuel and VED assuming this is 20MPG worse than a diesel....or £50 extra a month....hardly worth losing sleep over!

 

[cypher007]

yes very nice but on my wages not going to happen. i have a Volvo 850 T5R for when i want to burn money.

i was looking at 2012> under 60k miles 2 door teknik maybe. £12k max.

looking this year prices seem to have softened since last year.

 

[cypher007]

some people have replied on A5OC, is it a US based site? have they got very weak diesel over there?

the figures are appalling compared to the old mechanical TDI's.

is it really the case that they will only manage 40-50mpg on motorways?

if it is is this due to the DPF rubbish they fitted?

 

[DrEskimo]

some people have replied on A5OC, is it a US based site? have they got very weak diesel over there?

the figures are appalling compared to the old mechanical TDI's.

is it really the case that they will only manage 40-50mpg on motorways?

if it is is this due to the DPF rubbish they fitted?

No it's predominately UK, but there are US and Australian members. I used to be very active on there a few years ago, but I don't post much anymore.

DPF 'rubbish' is a necessary exhaust filter needed downstream to stop extremely high levels of NOx, which has been linked to respiratory health problems. Whilst diesels provided an answer to reductions in CO2 compared to petrol, unfortunately they emitted much more NOx. In order to circumvent this, DPF's were introduced, but as regulations have become even tighter, there was also a need for things like AdBlue. Of course it also came to light that not only where VAG cheating emission's tests, so the real world emissions were much higher than stipulated, but even manufacturers who legitimately passed the emission tests were also emitting NOx levels much higher than the test values in real world driving. Even today many EU6 diesels have massive disparity between test values and real world values.

So while high MPG and low CO2 is great, it comes at the cost of high NOx and poor local air quality, with a lot of evidence suggesting this has very real consequences for people living in urban areas with things like COPD and other chronic lung conditions. As a result, DPFs are needed, but in order to keep that running well, it needs to regenerate at high operating temperatures.

So not only is there the economic argument regarding doing high miles with a diesel, there is also the practical argument that typically longer (although arguably the type of miles is actually more important, but obviously high miles and long motorway journeys often correlate highly..) journeys are necessary to ensure no costly repair bills.

I mean, if you do low miles, but have to spend once a week blasting down a motorway in a high gear just to keep the DPF in good condition, it sort of defeats the entire point about having high MPGs....!

Sorry bit of a essay....but 50MPG sounds reasonable to me...? I would expect about 20MPG difference?

And as i thought I already pointed out, it's such a minute cost saving that I still don't know why you place so much importance on this 'MPG' figure...sorry to be frank, but it's like you are chasing a really high MPG figure without much consideration to what it will actually mean in real world cost? Bit like concentrating on peak BHP output, when the reality is that an increase from 300BHP to 320BHP will unlikely be noticeable in real world driving!

 

[cypher007]

I guess I'm just super mean when it comes to MPG and VED, especially VED as I see it as a tax to feed GOV nonsense and not actually improving the roads in our area. I generally have a car for maybe upto 10 years. weve had the Toledo 10 years. the Volvo 14 years.

 

[cypher007]

I'm also surprised I'm not hearing of garages that offer removable DPF and or tuning being mentioned on here. when I spent time on the Seat and mkiv forum there was a lot of chatter on these subjects. is it an A5 thing? in that A5 owners tend to leave the car alone and just get It serviced?

 

[DrEskimo]

I guess I'm just super mean when it comes to MPG and VED, especially VED as I see it as a tax to feed GOV nonsense and not actually improving the roads in our area. I generally have a car for maybe upto 10 years. weve had the Toledo 10 years. the Volvo 14 years.

Ha...can't do much about government nonsense I'm afraid....doesn't matter who you vote for unfortunately...politicians will always get in...

Well VED is a levy to encourage car manufacturers to produce lower CO2 cars to meet global CO2 targets. Whilst I think much of the money from VED is used for road maintenance, income tax is also a major source of revenue, which obviously everyone in employment pays for through PAYE.

I know quite a few A5 members that have done a DPF removal, particularly members with the 3.0TDI. Darkside Developments is a popular company for this that I've come across. Of course DPF removal isn't necessary to gain good performance or more economy. I know users who have the DPF in place and have achieved some very good figures. Obviously your worry is how likely the DPF is to fail due to your driving style.

I don't think you will get many shouting about it, well...because it's technically illegal....! Especially those that have MOT stations attached to them. A lot are risking getting their MOT licence revoked if found out...

For me, there is the hassle and cost of dealing with the EGR and DPF, the insurance implications (as you can’t declare it as a modification) and the moral issue given its associated health implications...I mean the list goes on. Far too much weighing against it than for it, particularly when you consider the cost savings are absolutely minimal when all said and done....but then that’s me...and you’re not me...!

I think you’ve exhausted my relatively finite knowledge on the subject, so best of luck with whatever you decide to do buddy!

 

[aqibi2000]

DPF 'rubbish' is a necessary exhaust filter needed downstream to stop extremely high levels of NOx, which has been linked to respiratory health problems. Whilst diesels provided an answer to reductions in CO2 compared to petrol, unfortunately they emitted much more NOx. In order to circumvent this, DPF's were introduced, but as regulations have become even tighter, there was also a need for things like AdBlue.

Mr NOx please look into the fact the output fumes are even smaller in partical size and just as hazardous for us to breath in. DPF is certainly not a cure.

DPF delete and back bod delete

 

[Seanchadwick2k3]

I dont have lots of experience as ive only been a tdi with Dpf owner since December but heres my 2p,

I do short drives all the time and have a 2.0 tdi A6. Mpg is rubbish because I drive during rush hour and my journey is so short 4-5 miles my ebgine is only up to the quarter mark on the temp guage by the time I get there (summer may be better). I was a bit worried about tge Dpf from reading horree threads so I got myself a cheap Bluetooth dongle and paid £1.90 ish for the app Vagdpf. Ive now watched a couple regens occur and can check how it is everytime I drive if I like.

My findings so far are that you dont need to rag it down the motorway and you dont need to take it on big long drives to keep it in a good condition.

A couple of months back my Dpf was reading 75% full and I was taking my daughter to a hospital appointment (7-10 miles) half way there I noticed it had started performing a regen and id only been on 30-40mph roads but had came on boost a few times which was enough to take the input temps to the 500 degrees required.

Id read elsewhere that once you stop or go below 2k rpm thats it regen stops but it didnt. By the time id finished my journey Dpf was at 11% and it hasnt done it again until recently. It was on about 60% the last time id checked and when I got out the car I noticed the fans running so stuck the dongle in and Dpf was down to 20%. So I wouldn't worry too much.

Also ignore spelling mistakes, phone typing with fat thumbs!