2.0 TDI 170 BMN - DPF issues (sighs)

[akz786]

So we had this car for a over a year now, no real issues and anytime the DPF light used to come on I would take it for a drive then it would clear after 10 mins of motorway driving.

Granted its used more for local driving and not long distant which is why this is happening and most likely why its become more blocked recently and requiring more active regens.

Fast Forward to last weekend - DPF + coil + engine management light, so done a forced regen via mates VCDS - all ok and measuring block 75 shows around 35% saturation.

Now I have tried to get this value down more but it may need a really long drive? or some cleaner? any recommendations?

I guess if it stays around 35% it will just keep doing passive/active gens more frequently to keep it below 45% or so right?

Finally another code came up as below:
005270 - Switch-over Valve for EGR Cooler (N345) - P1496 - 006 - Short to Plus - MIL - ON

Could the EGR be complaining due to the blockage(s) above? - if its not related I can deal with that side later.

Thank you as ever
A

 

[Ewan kettles]

Hi there, iv been reading quite a lot recently about these DPF issues also with mine all the same lights came on. Iv found it was due to failed lambda sensor not always enough to bring in EML but iv had same issues full DPF forced regen then full again into limp mode happened a few times. All because the lambda sensor wasn’t allowing the car to do active regens. Cost £55 and after 20 min drive all lights out car starting better and running better


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[akz786]

Thanks for the response, thats worth a try at £55 - bearing in mind on the cars on 116k miles now and its most likely the original item in there.
On another post you say its a fairly easy DIY?

Thanks
Akbar

 

[Ewan kettles]

Yeah is easy to do. My car is 108k so it’s the first place I’d look. Before spending masses of cash in the garage


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[Gazwould]

Another one for @Cornish John .

 

[Mario]

Get the EGR switch over valve issued fixed first! EGR problems can and will prevent the car doing a regen which will in turn lead to the filter blocking. I had DPF issues after the EGR on my car failed. Replaced the EGR and did a forced regen, been fine for 18 months now.

 

[akz786]

Agree, i just dont know where to start with the EGR, could it be electrical or need a clean? I will see if that code comes back again after clearing it but I do take what your saying whereby its got a part to play in the DPF being sooted up more frequently.

 

[Retroman]

What sort of mileage has the car done?

 

[akz786]

IVe just hit 116k...

 

[Rideen]

Another one for @Cornish John .

In his absence, I'll write what he'd surely write.

My car has 300 000 miles and I've never had DPF issues nor any other issues, never invested a penny. DPF is amazing and as new and the car feels new.

There we go.

 

[Retroman]

DPFs have been mandatory in UK diesels since 2009 but many cars had them fitted earlier, so at least 50% of cars sold since 2009 have them fitted. Some of the earlier designs are said to have had slight design flaws in that they did not maximize the exhaust heat necessary to burn off the soot with passive regens. The soot when burnt is supposed to be transformed into finer ash particles most of which then get expelled through the filter and out the exhaust. Over time small remnants of ash remain and build up and block the DPF. This blockage of ash cannot be removed by regens – passive, actioned or forced. How long does this take – who knows – but generally thought to be over 100,000 – 200,000 miles.

Things like faulty EGR systems, engine misfires or incorrect (high ash content) engine oil can aggravate the situation. Hence the sensible suggestion by Mario to fix the EGR system first.

Fuel additives help alter exhaust temperature (to burn/transform soot into ash) but they won’t help clear a build-up of ash in an older DPF. But as your DPF is below the 45% figure it is certainly my understanding that it is still capable of conducting normal, passive regens without the need to continually conduct ECU activated regens. To get the DPF warning light plus other warning lights plus limp mode suggests that your DPF reached the 75% figure before the recent “forced” regen.

If you feel the expenditure on the fix is unacceptable then your option is to have the DPF internals removed and map-out the EGR system which runs the risk of MOT failure if the recent government warnings are anything to go by. There are also firms springing up who can “deep clean” ash deposits from DPFs but my understanding is that it needs to be removed from the car in order to do it properly – in any event yours is only showing 35% after the forced regen.

Cornish John's case is an interesting test case and hopefully sarcasm at his lack of problems will not put him off continuing to contribute. However, if people look at his case further they will notice that he changes his engine oil extremely frequently which suggests to me this is the reason. Although originally low ash, dirty longlife carbon-heavy engine oil recycled around the system cannot be helpful.

 

[Cornish John]

Another one for @Cornish John .

Just turned 238,000 miles still sweet!

Only worry for me, new job which means a 52 mile round trip instead of 96 miles, now will this effect my baby!
Time will tell.

Keep changing that oil......................................................................

 

[akz786]

DPFs have been mandatory in UK diesels since 2009 but many cars had them fitted earlier, so at least 50% of cars sold since 2009 have them fitted. Some of the earlier designs are said to have had slight design flaws in that they did not maximize the exhaust heat necessary to burn off the soot with passive regens. The soot when burnt is supposed to be transformed into finer ash particles most of which then get expelled through the filter and out the exhaust. Over time small remnants of ash remain and build up and block the DPF. This blockage of ash cannot be removed by regens – passive, actioned or forced. How long does this take – who knows – but generally thought to be over 100,000 – 200,000 miles.

Things like faulty EGR systems, engine misfires or incorrect (high ash content) engine oil can aggravate the situation. Hence the sensible suggestion by Mario to fix the EGR system first.

Fuel additives help alter exhaust temperature (to burn/transform soot into ash) but they won’t help clear a build-up of ash in an older DPF. But as your DPF is below the 45% figure it is certainly my understanding that it is still capable of conducting normal, passive regens without the need to continually conduct ECU activated regens. To get the DPF warning light plus other warning lights plus limp mode suggests that your DPF reached the 75% figure before the recent “forced” regen.

If you feel the expenditure on the fix is unacceptable then your option is to have the DPF internals removed and map-out the EGR system which runs the risk of MOT failure if the recent government warnings are anything to go by. There are also firms springing up who can “deep clean” ash deposits from DPFs but my understanding is that it needs to be removed from the car in order to do it properly – in any event yours is only showing 35% after the forced regen.

Cornish John's case is an interesting test case and hopefully sarcasm at his lack of problems will not put him off continuing to contribute. However, if people look at his case further they will notice that he changes his engine oil extremely frequently which suggests to me this is the reason. Although originally low ash, dirty longlife carbon-heavy engine oil recycled around the system cannot be helpful.

Thanks for the very informative response, I shall look into the EGR and take things from there
I cant really see much in the way of DIY fixing of the EGR so may just end up replacing it

 

[Matt268uk]

My egr on a 2009 sportback has the aluminium body and an electrical motor on the side, while cleaning the body is possible the fault usually occurs in the motor which is not sold separately so I just replaced the whole thing and had no problems since. Cost about £250 ish from TPS with new gaskets.

 

[Cornish John]

My egr on a 2009 sportback has the aluminium body and an electrical motor on the side, while cleaning the body is possible the fault usually occurs in the motor which is not sold separately so I just replaced the whole thing and had no problems since. Cost about £250 ish from TPS with new gaskets.

Same happened with my daughters car, nothing wrong with the EGR but the motor had packed up, again had to change the whole thing.
It was fine afterwards.

 

[c_w]

Clearly a high mileage car of the same age will likely have a better DPF expereince than a lower mileage due to the nature of the build up of a soot on short journies and high temperature/long running journey requirements.

My car did about 165k on the original DPF before it started having the light on every other day or so, and a few limp modes, forcing regens. I did about a month of taking the car for runs/forcing regens but got a bit daft driving it every other day to clear it, so I had it taken off and mapped out at Unicorn, but before that caused no real issue so 164k miles not bad at all IMO. The car was used for 30mile trips most days.

Mine is a PD170 - I understand CornishJohns is a CR170 - a completely different kettle of fish and no surprise that he has had no issues with it as I would expect a fraction of the issues overall compared to the PD which was never designed with a DPF in mind. That said I think my PD170 did well up to the mileage vs most others, especially when they were causing dealers headaches in 2006 as some owneres were just running round town to the shops and back everyday. In fact I recall dealers being told to dissuad buyers from the PD170 if they didn't do long journeys. Newer DPF designed engines are so much better in that respect.

 

[Cornish John]

Clearly a high mileage car of the same age will likely have a better DPF expereince than a lower mileage due to the nature of the build up of a soot on short journies and high temperature/long running journey requirements.

My car did about 165k on the original DPF before it started having the light on every other day or so, and a few limp modes, forcing regens. I did about a month of taking the car for runs/forcing regens but got a bit daft driving it every other day to clear it, so I had it taken off and mapped out at Unicorn, but before that caused no real issue so 164k miles not bad at all IMO. The car was used for 30mile trips most days.

Mine is a PD170 - I understand CornishJohns is a CR170 - a completely different kettle of fish and no surprise that he has had no issues with it as I would expect a fraction of the issues overall compared to the PD which was never designed with a DPF in mind. That said I think my PD170 did well up to the mileage vs most others, especially when they were causing dealers headaches in 2006 as some owneres were just running round town to the shops and back everyday. In fact I recall dealers being told to dissuad buyers from the PD170 if they didn't do long journeys. Newer DPF designed engines are so much better in that respect.

Agree!

 

[akz786]

Thanks guys,after clearing the fault it came back so assuming something is up with it, but mine sounds like an issue with wiring to do with the EGR cooler switch over as per :

005270 - Switch-over Valve for EGR Cooler (N345) - P1496 - 006 - Short to Plus - MIL - ON

Where is the EGR cooler located or any associated wiring is BMN engine the same as CR? I think there is another person on here with a wire thats been cut but I will have to check any wiring from the cooler side right?

 

[Rideen]

Thanks guys,after clearing the fault it came back so assuming something is up with it, but mine sounds like an issue with wiring to do with the EGR cooler switch over as per :

005270 - Switch-over Valve for EGR Cooler (N345) - P1496 - 006 - Short to Plus - MIL - ON

Where is the EGR cooler located or any associated wiring is BMN engine the same as CR? I think there is another person on here with a wire thats been cut but I will have to check any wiring from the cooler side right?

Since no one replied yet, I can give a clue on where it might be (I have previously owned a BKD 2.0 TDI engine).

It should be behind the engine, under the wipers on driver's side (RHD). It looks almost like a heatsink and is silver in color.