1.6tdi cambelt & water pump intervals

[Ormesome]

Morning Ladies & Gents,

Just wondering if anyone knew the cam belt & water pump intervals on a 1.6tdi? Mine is the 2014 engine so a Euro 5 with 105bhp. Don't know if the engine has been updated recently or not so not sure if that makes a difference. I did do a search but lots of conflicting info on the net. After my puddles under the car scare it got me thinking about the water pump and when some maintenance might need doing.....

Thanks in advance.

 

[Rideen]

1.6 TDI got a slight bump in 2017 making it 116hp and Euro 6 but I doubt much has changed.

I intend to change mine after 30 000 miles (or 3 years, whichever comes first) regardless of what the service says.

From what I can recall, I was told it's 50 000 miles or 5 years.

 

[KenL]

Why change so early when the manufacturer will already have built in a safety margin?

I expect that this is not a cheap job.

 

[richinsoton]

It's definitely 5yrs (& somewhere over 100k miles) whichever occurs first

 

[tele2050]

I have a 1.6 TDI 2013 and on my recent service(3 days ago) i was advised that the cam belt needs changing in 7 months. Which takes my car to 5 years since first registration. Was also told, if i were to reach 120,000 before that, (which i really doubt i will, on 82000 atm) that it would need to be changed at that point.

I also read somewhere, that when they change the cam belt, they will also check the water pump and advise if it needs changing, as it will make it cheaper to get it changed while the car is already stripped.

 

[Ormesome]

Awesome thanks for the replies guys. good to know, no info at all out there on the web. Mines at 42k and 3.5yrs old so have a bit of time.

 

[SamP97]

I asked my dealership about this last year, it definitely five years and either 120 or 140k!

 

[AJB]

I asked my dealership about this last year, it definitely five years and either 120 or 140k!

According to the service book that came with my car (late 2013) it's 133k miles with no time limit specified. Other things (e.g. spark plugs) quote a time as well as a distance, so that implies there was no max time at least when the book was printed.

I know 10 years or so ago VW group suddenly switched to saying pretty much all their cars were 4 years max, but then they went chains, and then after that, for the new petrols at least, I thought were saying it was "lifetime".

 

[SamP97]

According to the service book that came with my car (late 2013) it's 133k miles with no time limit specified. Other things (e.g. spark plugs) quote a time as well as a distance, so that implies there was no max time at least when the book was printed.

I know 10 years or so ago VW group suddenly switched to saying pretty much all their cars were 4 years max, but then they went chains, and then after that, for the new petrols at least, I thought were saying it was "lifetime".

Pretty impressive if that's the case, on many a car still on British roads you probably wouldn't dream of leaving it 133k miles!!!

 

[suzannec]

Just realised mine needs doing. Audi fixed price is £495 (or £649 with water pump) with free MOT's for life. Whilst it has been to Audi for most of it's work I'm just not sure I can justify it for the cambelt!

 

[Rideen]

It's about 250 Euros where I live, that is why I will be doing mine on 30k/3yrs, better safe than sorry as I hate the idea of 100k+ miles on a piece of rubber.

 

[Mario]

....I hate the idea of 100k+ miles on a piece of rubber.

Kevlar reinforced rubber

Personally, every 5 years or 75,000 miles for me on a standard engine. On a tuned engine or one that is driven hard, reduce the mileage to 50,000 miles, but still 5 years if mileage is less.

 

[Rideen]

Kevlar reinforced rubber

Normal cambelts aren't from kevlar reinforced rubber contrary to the popular belief. The structure is usually polychloroprene cover, glass fiber tension members, integrally molded polychloroprene rubber teeth, and polyamide fabric.

Yes, I'm an engineer.

 

[AJB]

According to the service book that came with my car (late 2013) it's 133k miles with no time limit specified. Other things (e.g. spark plugs) quote a time as well as a distance, so that implies there was no max time at least when the book was printed.

I know 10 years or so ago VW group suddenly switched to saying pretty much all their cars were 4 years max, but then they went chains, and then after that, for the new petrols at least, I thought were saying it was "lifetime".

Thinking about it (and wondering whether or not I should get mine done after 5 years), would someone who has a newer 2017 model be happy to look in their service book and say whether there's now a time limit published, or whether it's still just a mileage like my 2013 service book?

From a bit of googling, there seems to be a feeling on some forums (across VW/Audi/Skoda) that VAG themselves still say mileage only, but it's a UK importer recommendation to add the "or 5 years". I guess that if Audi themselves have changed the spec then the newer service books will now have the 5 year max published.

 

[richinsoton]

Just get it done, after five years the rubber will have deteriourated whether the book says five years in it or not & it's cheaper than a set of valves or worst case scenario an engine!!!

 

[AJB]

Just get it done, after five years the rubber will have deteriourated whether the book says five years in it or not & it's cheaper than a set of valves or worst case scenario an engine!!!

It is, but the belt that came off my last VW group car when it was 6 years old (back in 2008) looked pretty much new, and it took 2 further return visits to the main dealer to finally explain to them how to adjust the diesel injection pump timing correctly...

If it doesn't need doing, and if Audi themselves are saying "no time limit - just 133000 miles", then I'd rather not have a dealer messing around with it and, potentially, causing a worst case scenario of a new set of valves or a new engine..... So, if it's only Audi UK saying 5 years, and if Audi themselves have up-specced the belt on newer engines to make it "lifetime", then I think I'd rather wait say 10 years (about 90,000 miles for me) before risking having a garage ruin my car...

If Audi are now saying 5 years, then I shouldn't chance it and should get it done.

 

[Ormesome]

Girlfriends dad has a 1.6tdi Golf estate. Its a 2010 model but i guess essentially the same engine. He's been told by VW over here in Portugal (he's Portuguese with Portuguese Golf) that its mileage based and he doesn't have to worry about time. He's on around 80k kms so doesn't think its worth doing. this is Portugal though and i guess backs up the above theory that UK dealers/Audi add the "or 5yrs terms". My car is UK based so i won't be taking the advice here in PT. Having said this, if a belt goes and causes engine damage, and its been serviced by Audi & still in warranty, then would it be covered under the warranty? assuming its under its due date & mileage allowance

 

[richinsoton]

https://www.audi.co.uk/owners-area/servicing-maintenance-mot/regular-maintenance.html

 

[AJB]

https://www.audi.co.uk/owners-area/servicing-maintenance-mot/regular-maintenance.html

To me that could read as:

it should be checked and replaced every 5 years (according to Audi UK) or as per the mileage specified in your Audi service schedule (ie according to Audi themselves).

Hence my uncertainty as to whether the Audi service schedule has now been revised (meaning mine being out of date, and I should go with Audi UK's advice of 5 years), or whether Audi themselves and the official service schedule still say 133,000 miles with no time limit, and Audi UK fancy some extra work for their dealers so add the 5 year advice.

I'm certainly not planning to follow Audi UK's service recommendation of getting the air con regassed every 2 years - I'll stick with the service schedule (no planned/scheduled maintenance other than changing pollen filter), and get it regassed if/when it stops blowing as cold as it used to.

 

[Ormesome]

Just got off the phone with Audi Portugal who took my VIN number. They verified that on their system, my 1.6tdi is as follows:

• CHECKED (NOT changed) at 7years if low mileage

or

• CHANGED at 210,000kms regardless of age

or

• CHANGED at 180,000kms if near the 7yr mark.

Would love to know WHY Audi UK ask for otherwise especially when the lady for Audi PT verified it to my specific car and VIN.

 

[Rideen]

It is, but the belt that came off my last VW group car when it was 6 years old (back in 2008) looked pretty much new, and it took 2 further return visits to the main dealer to finally explain to them how to adjust the diesel injection pump timing correctly...

I'd instantly pick a different dealer if I were you. Also, rubber deteriorates over time so 5 years is by far the limit of it holding original structural integrity. It's the same with car tyres.

 

[Ormesome]

I'd instantly pick a different dealer if I were you. Also, rubber deteriorates over time so 5 years is by far the limit of it holding original structural integrity. It's the same with car tyres.

You mentioned Euros in an earlier post, i take it you aren't based in the UK? If not, could you let us know which country & if what you mentioned in Post 2 of this thread (5yrs or 50k) is accurate to your country, just to compare it to the advice given by Audi Portugal?

 

[AJB]

I'd instantly pick a different dealer if I were you.

Ha! I wish it were that simple! I've yet to find one that seems genuinely competent...

Also, rubber deteriorates over time so 5 years is by far the limit of it holding original structural integrity. It's the same with car tyres.

Totally agreed that rubber deteriorates, and that its lifetime is finite. However, technology and materials improve over time, and I'm sure there's a trade-off between manufacturing cost and expected lifetime.

I certainly wouldn't say there's a blanket "5 years is the limit of all rubber drive belts". If Audi wanted to spend a lot more, I'm sure they could make them last longer. For example this continental belt (which I think might be the one used in the current diesel engines) talks about "Full functionality during the entire life of the common rail engine (240,000 km)", and this one says "Safe operation without replacement interval (engine lifetime)".

So for me it comes back to whether a 2017 Audi service book now says "or 5 years", implying that extra information has come to light since mine was printed in 2013 (when they were saying 133000 miles with no time limit), or whether they're still saying there's no time limit but Audi UK have chosen to specify one.

If it's just Audi UK then it might still be for a valid reason (the whole thing is a risk vs cost trade-off for the customer), or it might be for no valid reason other than to make their dealers more money (eg re-gas air con every 2 years).

 

[Rideen]

You mentioned Euros in an earlier post, i take it you aren't based in the UK? If not, could you let us know which country & if what you mentioned in Post 2 of this thread (5yrs or 50k) is accurate to your country, just to compare it to the advice given by Audi Portugal?

It's Bosnia and Herzegovina mate, we're a small country in Southeastern Europe.

 

[richinsoton]

I certainly wouldn't say there's a blanket "5 years is the limit of all rubber drive belts". If Audi wanted to spend a lot more, I'm sure they could make them last longer. For example this continental belt (which I think might be the one used in the current diesel engines) talks about "Full functionality during the entire life of the common rail engine (240,000 km)", and this one says "Safe operation without replacement interval (engine lifetime)".

So you're unhappy that the belt requirement is 133k miles / 5yrs according to Audi (the engine manufacturer) but happy enough to believe the lifetime of the engine is 149k miles according to Continental (the belt manufacturer)?.... There's not much difference between those two mileage figures as to the expected lifetime of the belt is there?. By the way Continental like all tyre manufacturers have a date stamp on their tyres, why do you think that is, or is that to make their dealers extra money too!?!.

 

[richinsoton]

Just got off the phone with Audi Portugal who took my VIN number. They verified that on their system, my 1.6tdi is as follows:

• CHECKED (NOT changed) at 7years if low mileage

or

• CHANGED at 210,000kms regardless of age

or

• CHANGED at 180,000kms if near the 7yr mark.

Would love to know WHY Audi UK ask for otherwise especially when the lady for Audi PT verified it to my specific car and VIN.

So you're prepared to accept that Audi PT specify two different mileages to change the belt 111k miles & 130k miles, but Audi UK specifying a change interval of 133k miles / 5yrs is incorrect?.

When you spoke to Audi PT is was most likely the same as the UK where first level customer support is out sourced to Avarto or Capita etc where they will give you the generic information for their specific market. They'll input your VIN & the info they'll get back will be Audi A x with xx engine at xx yrs = cambelt change interval of XXX miles / yrs for their market.

Contact Audi Saudi Arabia & they'll probably tell you the Air Filter is changed every service... Gasp! shock! horror! they're ripping their customers off too, or are they specifying the correct intervals for their specific market which happens to be different to ours!?!.

 

[AJB]

So you're unhappy that the belt requirement is 133k miles / 5yrs according to Audi (the engine manufacturer) but happy enough to believe the lifetime of the engine is 149k miles according to Continental (the belt manufacturer)?

Not at all. I'll change the belt whenever Audi (the engine manufacturer) says I should - they have access to more information than anybody else.

Audi (the engine manufacturer) printed in the service book that came with my car that the belt should be changed at a given mileage (133k, but the exact figure isn't important), with no time limit.

Audi UK have put on their website that they think the belt should be checked and changed (although why you'd check it if you're changing it anyway) every 5 years max, regardless of mileage.

I'm trying to find out whether Audi (the engine manufacturer) now recommend 5 year max, or whether that's something the UK importer has made up.

I quoted the Continental links to show that some companies (including belt manufacturers) feel that modern belts can safely last more than 5 years, or potentially for the entire expected life of the engine. That doesn't prove anything either way with regards to Audi's recommendation, but it does mean that it's possible that Audi don't have a time limit, and it means that a blanket "5 year max for all makes, all engines, all belt technologies, because they're all rubber-based" is probably over-simplifying things a lot and, in some cases, over-cautious.

 

[AJB]

By the way Continental like all tyre manufacturers have a date stamp on their tyres, why do you think that is, or is that to make their dealers extra money too!?!.

I think I'm right in saying that they have to have a DOT date code by law.

For what it's worth, Continental say here that they recommend that "All tires (including spare tires) that were manufactured more than ten years ago should be replaced with new tires". I don't think that means that timing belts should all last for 10 years, but if you're making a direct comparison... Also it's worth noting that tyres get a lot of UV exposure which could degrade the material more quickly.

 

[Ormesome]

So you're prepared to accept that Audi PT specify two different mileages to change the belt 111k miles & 130k miles, but Audi UK specifying a change interval of 133k miles / 5yrs is incorrect?.

When you spoke to Audi PT is was most likely the same as the UK where first level customer support is out sourced to Avarto or Capita etc where they will give you the generic information for their specific market. They'll input your VIN & the info they'll get back will be Audi A x with xx engine at xx yrs = cambelt change interval of XXX miles / yrs for their market.

Contact Audi Saudi Arabia & they'll probably tell you the Air Filter is changed every service... Gasp! shock! horror! they're ripping their customers off too, or are they specifying the correct intervals for their specific market which happens to be different to ours!?!.

Hmm a few things to be corrected mate. I didn't say i was "accepting". I was questioning it. I think myself & @AJB are on the same page. Its about the time frame. Yes Audi PT might quote similar mileage but timeframe is very different. Why is this? If we take your example of KSA, your stating something specific for that country which is obvious, but what would the obvious reason be that Audi UK recommend 5yrs max time frame for a cambelt change?

Just to widen the argument, i went down to my local Audi dealer here, i know the guys there as its all quite "royston vasey" in Portugal. Chatted with them about this discussion and they showed me on their system the dates/ time frames. Even showed me the booklets with the same dates/timeframes in it. The only thing they could think of was salt on the roads during winter might make it perish earlier than in southern EU countries.

It's Bosnia and Herzegovina mate, we're a small country in Southeastern Europe.

Great. Iv never been but would love to. Im trying to sort out a road trip for next year. Im based near Bologna for parts of the year so would get a ferry to Dubrovnic, drive along a bit of the coast but then head inland to Sarajevo & up to Zagreb.

 

[Rideen]

Great. Iv never been but would love to. Im trying to sort out a road trip for next year. Im based near Bologna for parts of the year so would get a ferry to Dubrovnic, drive along a bit of the coast but then head inland to Sarajevo & up to Zagreb.

If you do visit us, drop me a PM on forums and we can meet up. Not a lot of 8Vs around here.

 

[richinsoton]

There are all sorts of possibilities why service intervals vary market to market from the conditions the cars operate in / ambient temperatures / the way their customers use them / expect things to last etc.

As Audi only warrant their cars to 60k miles / 3 yrs in the UK you could question why do they even bother specifying a change interval at all (other than to reject a claim if it was a change interval lower than the mileage / time for the rest of the warranty policy ((they VAG did have cambelts changes of 40k miles not so long ago))), especially as the figures they've chosen to use are so long after they're libel for the repair costs anyhow.

If you think the 5 yr rule is over cautious & want to carry on regardless until you reach 133k miles, fine don't change the belt that's entirely up to you.

From this thread we've learnt that Audi's regional representatives recommend in the UK 133k miles / 5 yrs & in Portugal 111k or 130k miles / 7 yrs for a cambelt interval.

 

[AJB]

As Audi only warrant their cars to 60k miles / 3 yrs in the UK you could question why do they even bother specifying a change interval at all (other than to reject a claim if it was a change interval lower than the mileage / time for the rest of the warranty policy

They want their cars to last for their expected design life, regardless of whether that's under warranty or not in any given region. There are plenty of service items specified which are outside warranty limits (eg spark plugs max 6 years for my car). It costs them nothing to specify the appropriate time and/or distance interval for any given service item.

If you think the 5 yr rule is over cautious & want to carry on regardless until you reach 133k miles, fine don't change the belt that's entirely up to you

I don't know; that's the reason for this discussion. What I want to know is what Audi themselves are recommending now. Whether a 2016 or 2017 service book still has no time limit specified for the timing belt change (implying that Audi UK are being more cautious than Audi themselves), or whether a time limit is now specified (implying that extra information has come to light, or unexpected failures have arisen, since my car was built and my service book was printed).

I'm very comfortable ignoring Audi UK's advice if Audi themselves don't advise the same (eg I'm not getting my aircon re-gassed every 2 years (Audi UK recommendation)), but I'm very uncomfortable ignoring Audi's advice (eg I get my pollen filter changed every 2 years (Audi service schedule specification)).

 

[Retroman]

Having spoken to Audi UK about this in the past, it seems that in May 2014 they made the decision to overrule the simple "handbook mileage change interval" with an overriding:- "the first to come of 5-years or the handbook mileage change interval". They told me that this was to cope with cars that do a lot of shorter trips. Audi are not the only manufacturer to give out confusing and ambiguous cam-belt change interval information.

EDIT - Just to be clear, I understood this to apply retrospectively i.e. to cars like mine which were manufactured prior to May 2014.

 

[richinsoton]

I'm very comfortable ignoring Audi UK's advice if Audi themselves don't advise the same (eg I'm not getting my aircon re-gassed every 2 years (Audi UK recommendation)), but I'm very uncomfortable ignoring Audi's advice (eg I get my pollen filter changed every 2 years (Audi service schedule specification)).

The a/c recommendation is across all manufacturers as far as I'm aware & not some evil plot by Audi UK to screw you out of a few quid. The system is prone to very minor leakage over time & hence the bi annual service is to keep the system at optimal functionality. If you reason that the a/c gas can leak out then therefore so can the lubricating oil within it (hence why it's recommended to run the a/c every few weeks or so to keep the 'o' rings moistened with oil as otherwise they dry out which speeds up the pressure loss).

If you want confirmation of Audi AG's cambelt recommendation ask them... although they'll probably refer you back to the UK!.

 

[AJB]

The a/c recommendation is across all manufacturers as far as I'm aware & not some evil plot by Audi UK to screw you out of a few quid. The system is prone to very minor leakage over time & hence the bi annual service is to keep the system at optimal functionality. If you reason that the a/c gas can leak out then therefore so can the lubricating oil within it (hence why it's recommended to run the a/c every few weeks or so to keep the 'o' rings moistened with oil as otherwise they dry out which speeds up the pressure loss).

But then why isn't it in the Audi AG service schedule, along with pollen filter, spark plugs, tyre sealant bottle expiry, etc? I know the gas does slowly leak, but my previous VAG car made it to 8 years old with no regassing required and my wife's MINI made it to 11 years old (both sold at that point with perfectly working air con, both serviced according to the manufacturer's official schedule, neither of which specified a regassing interval). I do know about the advice to run it every few weeks, and I do try to follow that.

 

[AJB]

Is there anyone with a 2016 or 2017 model who could look in their service book (thin book in with the handbook) and report back whether it now specifies a max time for cambelt/timing belt/toothed belt change, or whether it's still just a mileage? Thanks!

 

[KenL]

Is there anyone with a 2016 or 2017 model who could look in their service book (thin book in with the handbook) and report back whether it now specifies a max time for cambelt/timing belt/toothed belt change, or whether it's still just a mileage? Thanks!

My car was delivered Sep 2016. I'm pretty sure it came with no detailed service info.

 

[AJB]

This is the book mine came with (2013):


This is the timing belt page (no time limit specified):

For comparison, the spark plugs have a distance and a time (whichever comes first):

 

[AJB]

I've just discovered that the myAudi part of Audi's website has servicing requirements, presumably up to date. For my car this shows as:

I can't imagine for a second that there's a separate toothed belt just for the cooling pump, so I'm fairly sure that's saying the cambelt is 140,000 miles with no max time limit. And in fact it's even just saying to check it then, whereas the printed service book says to change it. (I'm assuming 140,000 vs the 133,000 in my printed service book is just a km to miles rounding thing).

So to me this implies that Audi themselves still don't have a max time limit for the cambelt (on the 1.4 COD at least) and, for what it's worth, that they still don't specify routing air con regassing either. Which would mean that both of these were just Audi UK recommendations.

That's not proof that they're not valid or sensible recommendations, of course, but it does mean that I think I'm happy to ignore them and go with Audi's advice - they made the car so I figure they're probably best placed to advise... It's a tough one, though, as belt change is expensive, and the consequences of it snapping are more expensive!

 

[AJB]

View attachment 135343

I can't imagine for a second that there's a separate toothed belt just for the cooling pump...

Just re-reading this old thread in the light of a new thread on the same subject, and realised that I was wrong and clearly sadly lacking in imagination!! I've more recently learnt that there is indeed a separate toothed belt just for the cooling pump on the 1.4 TFSI, on the back of the engine driving the cooling pump from back end of one of the camshafts. So that section about check at 140,000 then every 20,000 might well not be referring to the cambelt. Weird that it doesn't mention the cambelt at all though...

But overall my feeling is still the same - I've yet to see anything from Audi Germany suggesting that they now think a cambelt change is due after 5 years, so I'll stick with their service schedule for now and ignore Audi UK's advice. Once the car gets to 10 years old or so then I might start to rethink (I won't be at 133,000 miles by then).