Wheel spacer sizes for P-Zeros

PaulBCN · Jul 10, 2022

I ordered a set of 12mm/15mm spacers for my new 8Y Sedan (due to be picked up in the next days) as I assumed that nearly all of them were coming with Potenzas now...

On Friday I drove 3 hours to see it and sign all paperwork but saw that it's actually fitted with P-Zeros :sadlike:

so that kind of screwed up my plan as I know 12/15mm rub on the P-Zero shoulders.

So... does anybody have any real experience using spacers on the P-Zeros? What sizes can be used with no rubbing at all? Cheers.

Jassyo06 · Jul 10, 2022

I'd get yer the lower side sills and rear wings ppf'd....as its one way to damage all of the above and more...

8YARWY · Jul 10, 2022

jassyo06 said:
I'd get yer the lower side sills and rear wings ppf'd....as its one way to damage all of the above and more...

Lol wasting yer time.

Audi spend millions developing the steering geo / suspension / chassis control etc so it all works in harmony………

Along comes an RS3 owner with £150 of spacers

Audi be like

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PaulBCN · Jul 10, 2022

jassyo06 said:
I'd get yer the lower side sills and rear wings ppf'd....as its one way to damage all of the above and more...

I've always used smallish spacers (10-15mm max) on previous cars without any problems.

PaulBCN · Jul 10, 2022

8YARWY said:
Lol wasting yer time.

I wasn't asking for a discussion about the handling characteristics of offsetting the wheel hubs by 10mm per side, I was just asking for real-world experiences of 8Y RS3 owners who have found a good offset for use with Pirellis without causing any rubbing at all.

8YARWY · Jul 10, 2022

PaulBCN said:
I wasn't asking for a discussion about the handling characteristics of offsetting the wheel hubs by 10mm per side, I was just asking for real-world experiences of 8Y RS3 owners who have found a good offset for use with Pirellis without causing any rubbing at all.

Pirelli tyres on the RS3 by their shoulder design are more suited to what you want to do……. Angled shoulders are less likely to catch at the rear, if you had the square Bridgestones though, you’d be having issues with tyres rubbing the rear arch because the Bridgestones are square shouldered.

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PaulBCN · Jul 10, 2022

8YARWY said:
Pirelli tyres on the RS3 by their shoulder design are more suited to what you want to do……. Angled shoulders are less likely to catch at the rear, if you had the square Bridgestones though, you’d be having issues with tyres rubbing the rear arch because the Bridgestones are square shouldered.

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Cheers for the reply :icon thumright:

But I thought it was the other way around? Wasn't it the Bridgestones that were ok with 12/15mm spacers and the Pirellis were the ones that were rubbing?

8YARWY · Jul 10, 2022

PaulBCN said:
Cheers for the reply

But I thought it was the other way around? Wasn't it the Bridgestones that were ok with 12/15mm spacers and the Pirellis were the ones that were rubbing?

Don’t know where you’ve got that info from.

But let’s think about this logically.

P Zero runs angled shoulders = less chance of rubbing if you move the wheel out by x amount

A tyre with very square shoulders is going to catch the rear arch because there is more rubber over the edge of the alloy rim, so on rebound etc it’s going to hit the bodywork.

For reference here’s an 8V 2018 RS3 that is rusting and has all its paint missing.
Owner said it had different wheels and wider 245 tyres at the rear (oem on 8V = 235)

It’s not difficult to imagine what sustained attack from small stones etc does to body work is it……….

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Deleted member 160894 · Jul 10, 2022

PaulBCN said:
I ordered a set of 12mm/15mm spacers for my new 8Y Sedan (due to be picked up in the next days) as I assumed that nearly all of them were coming with Potenzas now...

On Friday I drove 3 hours to see it and sign all paperwork but saw that it's actually fitted with P-Zeros so that kind of screwed up my plan as I know 12/15mm rub on the P-Zero shoulders.

So... does anybody have any real experience using spacers on the P-Zeros? What sizes can be used with no rubbing at all? Cheers.

I'm pretty sure @billymc92 had his spacers and lowering done with the Pirelli tyres. He has problems with 15mm front and 20mm rear spacers rubbing but was going to switch to 12mm and 15mm. Might be worth PMing him about his experiences

8YARWY · Jul 10, 2022

Here’s pictures of PZero vs Goodyear

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PaulBCN · Jul 10, 2022

Holy f*ck. I've just gone back and checked where I saw this (in the 8Y Global Owners / Fans group on FB), and it's my bad.

You're totally right @8YARWY - my apologies. It is the Potenzas that have this problem (with the square shoulders as you say). The Pirellis are actually the ones that are fine. For some reason, I've spent the last 2-3 months thinking it was the opposite way around.

Thanks again.

RSt3ve · Jul 11, 2022

8YARWY said:
Don’t know where you’ve got that info from.

But let’s think about this logically.

P Zero runs angled shoulders = less chance of rubbing if you move the wheel out by x amount

A tyre with very square shoulders is going to catch the rear arch because there is more rubber over the edge of the alloy rim, so on rebound etc it’s going to hit the bodywork.

For reference here’s an 8V 2018 RS3 that is rusting and has all its paint missing.
Owner said it had different wheels and wider 245 tyres at the rear (oem on 8V = 235)

It’s not difficult to imagine what sustained attack from small stones etc does to body work is it……….

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Come on, that's a 1990's Ford surely!!!!
ETTO with spacers, but the negative of rust far outweighs the looks IMO, a rusty 4 year old car is not a good look at all.

HulkRS3 · Jul 11, 2022

I’m running 12x15mm on the Pirelli’s and there are no issues with rubbing, even when lowered. And no damage to the sills 4000 miles in either :thumbs up:

8YARWY · Jul 11, 2022

RSt3ve said:
Come on, that's a 1990's Ford surely!!!!
ETTO with spacers, but the negative of rust far outweighs the looks IMO, a rusty 4 year old car is not a good look at all.

Was from this very Forum Sir.

Not the first RS3 8V either.

A well know re-seller posted a while back they are seeing more and more front wing damage after spacers / wider tyres were fitted.

All depends on the roads used too, if you live somewhere with a lot of rough roads / gravel etc then the paint will take a battering
Not so much on buttery smooth tarmac roads.

Simple thing is the more you push the tyre out the more things flying off the tread will hit the bodywork, never the 1st owner that cops for it though, always subsequent owners.

Audi design things this way for a reason, but a lot of brain dead owners around…….

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rngDeadeye · Jul 11, 2022

Peppered sills isn't exclusive to Audi sadly.

Quite a few M owners are adding little carbon fibre mud-guards for the same reason. Probably worth considering whether you add spacers or not.

8YARWY · Jul 11, 2022

rngDeadeye said:
Peppered sills isn't exclusive to Audi sadly.

Quite a few M owners are adding little carbon fibre mud-guards for the same reason. Probably worth considering whether you add spacers or not.

Same trend on the 8V.

A guy who has an exclusive Mica 8V ran spacers for a while, until he started getting road rash on his front doors, he then put carbon mud flap pieces on, trouble is they look odd on a car with no carbon elsewhere.

Had all the previous RS3’s with standard wheels and never had this issue with paint / rust.

Certainly will not be fitting spacers anyway.

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Jassyo06 · Jul 11, 2022

HulkRS3 said:
I’m running 12x15mm on the Pirelli’s and there are no issues with rubbing, even when lowered. And no damage to the sills 4000 miles in either

Give it time a winter should prove it otherwise

HulkRS3 · Jul 11, 2022

jassyo06 said:
Give it time a winter should prove it otherwise

No problems in any other cars I've run them on either. Bit of PPF, and a decent coating and you should be fine.

Jassyo06 · Jul 11, 2022

8YARWY said:
Same trend on the 8V.

A guy who has an exclusive Mica 8V ran spacers for a while, until he started getting road rash on his front doors, he then put carbon mud flap pieces on, trouble is they look odd on a car with no carbon elsewhere.

Had all the previous RS3’s with standard wheels and never had this issue with paint / rust.

Certainly will not be fitting spacers anyway.

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I remember that young member and his car plus the damage it inflicted on the paintwork

Mike.46 · Jul 11, 2022

8YARWY said:
Lol wasting yer time.

Audi spend millions developing the steering geo / suspension / chassis control etc so it all works in harmony………

Along comes an RS3 owner with £150 of spacers

Audi be like

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Yep, Ackerman principle straight out of window for starters.

Both my lads had EVO8MR's one left it standard the other put wider/bigger dia wheels/spacers/lowered it, looked OK

He then drove my other lads std one and said 'I wish mine drove like this' :sadlike:

Deleted member 160894 · Jul 11, 2022

Mike.46 said:
Yep, Ackerman principle straight out of window for starters.

Both my lads had EVO8MR's one left it standard the other put wider/bigger dia wheels/spacers/lowered it, looked OK

He then drove my other lads std one and said 'I wish mine drove like this'

I had an Evo 8 MR back in the day and lowered and changed the wheels. I did do a full geometry tune up though and the handling was much improved afterwards.

8YARWY · Jul 11, 2022

Mike.46 said:
Yep, Ackerman principle straight out of window for starters.

Both my lads had EVO8MR's one left it standard the other put wider/bigger dia wheels/spacers/lowered it, looked OK

He then drove my other lads std one and said 'I wish mine drove like this'

Yup…. An ex RS3 owner I know is very clued up on suspension / Geo etc,(owns a motorsport based company) explained the principle to me a good few years back, makes for interesting reading too.

Research scrub Radius as it affects this more.

Surprising how many think pushing the wheels out won’t have any downsides…..

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Terminator x · Jul 11, 2022

8YARWY said:
Lol wasting yer time.

Audi spend millions developing the steering geo / suspension / chassis control etc so it all works in harmony………

Along comes an RS3 owner with £150 of spacers

Audi be like

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Remaps ok though Sean

TX.

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8YARWY · Jul 11, 2022

Terminator x said:
Remaps ok though Sean

TX.

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In hindsight, a pain John…..one thing leads to another and another….etc

Loads of money spent, as you can start to expose shortcomings in other areas of the car, but was an experience non the less.

Best to find something thrilling out the box

And you don’t just spend ‘£150’ to fettle the engine

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garethdj · Jul 11, 2022

Ran 10mm all round with on my 8v with pzeros. will probably do something similar, if I end up fitting spacers on this one.

I’m sure my logic is flawed I didn’t like the idea of messing with the proportions of the track width, also preferred the subtle look. Lowered on 10mm all round too. Was just enough

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Mike.46 · Jul 11, 2022

8YARWY said:
Yup…. An ex RS3 owner I know is very clued up on suspension / Geo etc,(owns a motorsport based company) explained the principle to me a good few years back, makes for interesting reading too.

Research scrub Radius as it affects this more.

Surprising how many think pushing the wheels out won’t have any downsides…..

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Oddly an R8 has something 'amiss' either Ackerman or scrub radius etc, Audi say it's to help high speed steering but on full lock the front either scrubs like hell or bunny hops one of the front wheels, they tell you about that before you test drive one as most think it has a fault, but being as the 'chassis' is Lamborghini Gallardo it makes you wonder

Daggerit · Jul 12, 2022

Mike.46 said:
Yep, Ackerman principle straight out of window for starters.

Both my lads had EVO8MR's one left it standard the other put wider/bigger dia wheels/spacers/lowered it, looked OK

He then drove my other lads std one and said 'I wish mine drove like this'

I thought Ackermann was driven by the steering mount positions more than wheel position? Surely they'd still point to the centre of the turning circle because the hubs and all the mounting points are still in the same position regardless of how far out the wheels end up?

Scrub radius I can understand changing with it though, but I don't know how bad it would actually affect handling, depending on how positive or negative the initial setup was.

Mike.46 · Jul 12, 2022

^ Yes your on the right lines but the steering mount positions also assume the centre line of the wheel width, ackerman principle is to allow the front wheels to turn in a circle around the centre line of the rear axle reducing or stopping scrub, spacers will decrease the circle the inner wheel wants to turn in and increase the outer wheel turing circle, the scrub radius wil have an effect as well, plus castor will go out and also the front roll centre will drop (the theoretical point at which the car rolls) maybe causing a 'skewed' roll between front and rear of car) They will also alter the spring rate slightly and the effect of the anti roll bar, plus tram lining will be more evident, as said manufacturers spend millions getting all this lot to work correctly and then someone comes along with a big set of spacers, lowers the car and fits 21 inch wheels
Of course whether the benefit of the spacers is positive or negative, or indeed can be 'felt' is another matter

Daggerit · Jul 12, 2022

Mike.46 said:
^ Yes your on the right lines but the steering mount positions also assume the centre line of the wheel width, ackerman principle is to allow the front wheels to turn in a circle around the centre line of the rear axle reducing or stopping scrub, spacers will decrease the circle the inner wheel wants to turn in and increase the outer wheel turing circle, the scrub radius wil have an effect as well, plus castor will go out and also the front roll centre will drop (the theoretical point at which the car rolls) maybe causing a 'skewed' roll between front and rear of car) They will also alter the spring rate slightly and the effect of the anti roll bar, plus tram lining will be more evident, as said manufacturers spend millions getting all this lot to work correctly and then someone comes along with a big set of spacers, lowers the car and fits 21 inch wheels
Of course whether the benefit of the spacers is positive or negative, or indeed can be 'felt' is another matter
View attachment 256732 View attachment 256732

I get you, but I think that diagram is a bit misleading because the centre of rotation of the wheel is about the hub mount point, not the centre of the tyre/wheel, at which point I'd imagine the position of the tyre is all but irrelevant to it specifically. I think that we're generally in agreement either way though. Haha.

I have no issues running spacers on my cars for general driving, but if I was going to head on track I would definitely take them off just to get the best from the car for the reasons you've said in your posts.

Mike.46 · Jul 12, 2022

Whilst we are on this 'modifying' stuff, this is Motorcycle but the same principle happens (I know from the racing side of stuff, I ran a couple of v successful race teams for years)
Fast Bikes (I think it was and years ago) took a new Kawasaki 636, modded the hell out of it, full exhaust/air filter, dyno set up, lighter wheels, better brake pads, replaced the std c*ap suspension with specialised valved for the bike Ohlins forks and shock.

They then took the bike to Donnington and to see just how much of an improvement they had made and took a bog std bike for a true back to back test,

They admitted they spent all day trying to get the modded bike to lap as quick as the standard bike, only matching it at the end of the day and not improving on it

PaulBCN · Jul 19, 2022

12.5/15mm spacers fitted today to the 4 day old RS3. It really helps to fill the arches and gives the car real stance. As much as Ackermann would roll over in his 200 year old grave :whistle2:

, it really completes the car. For me it now looks like it should have done leaving the factory. I would even have reduced them by 2-3mm and still have been happy.

Deleted member 160894 · Jul 20, 2022

PaulBCN said:
12.5/15mm spacers fitted today to the 4 day old RS3. It really helps to fill the arches and gives the car real stance. As much as Ackermann would roll over in his 200 year old grave , it really completes the car. For me it now looks like it should have done leaving the factory. I would even have reduced them by 2-3mm and still have been happy.

View attachment 256913

Yes, that's the look. Are you lowering it as well or leaving it as is?

PaulBCN · Jul 21, 2022

R1 CHR said:
Yes, that's the look. Are you lowering it as well or leaving it as is?

Definitely won't be lowering it. For me now it looks perfect as it is. I've always been against lowering cars to be honest. At my age the damn thing is already low enough to get in and out of straight from the factory

I think 12.5/15mm works really well. I wouldn't want it a bigger offset. It looks great now.

Deleted member 160894 · Jul 21, 2022

PaulBCN said:
Definitely won't be lowering it. For me now it looks perfect as it is. I've always been against lowering cars to be honest. At my age the damn thing is already low enough to get in and out of straight from the factory

I think 12.5/15mm works really well. I wouldn't want it a bigger offset. It looks great now.

Fair play. Like you said, it should've looked like that from the factory. I'll definitely be doing the same because it does look good

8YARWY · Aug 11, 2022

Interesting read here on why spacers can be a negative

Wheel Spacers - 3 Reasons Why You Should Not Fit Them

Installing wheels spacers is common upgrade within the tuning scene. In this post we explore the positives and negatives of fitting them.

suspensionsecrets.co.uk

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Mike.46 · Aug 12, 2022

8YARWY said:
Interesting read here on why spacers can be a negative

Wheel Spacers - 3 Reasons Why You Should Not Fit Them

Installing wheels spacers is common upgrade within the tuning scene. In this post we explore the positives and negatives of fitting them.

suspensionsecrets.co.uk

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MIssed the bit that it also alters your installed spring rate

And, depending on the suspension type as said the 'roll centre' 'may' alter differently from the front to the rear of the car casuing a scewed roll, having a roll centre too low is also not desireable as it transfers more weight to the outer wheel............

Then as a PS, lower the car as well just to put the roll centre even further down the toilet

8YARWY · Aug 12, 2022

Mike.46 said:
MIssed the bit that it also alters your installed spring rate
And, depending on the suspension type as said the 'roll centre' 'may' alter differently from the front to the rear of the car casuing a scewed roll, having a roll centre too low is also not desireable as it transfers more weight to the outer wheel............

Then as a PS, lower the car as well just to put the roll centre even further down the toilet

Yup..........however you forget the fact "it looks good" and "am da gangsta" for doing it............

The chap across from my unit was discussing this with me yesterday..........once you pull that 'scrub radius' point to above the ground, it won't be pretty lol.

Mike.46 · Aug 12, 2022

Would be very interesting to say..................
''Here you go Frank Stippler me old mate, heres my RS3 lowered and widened with some spacers, lets see how quick you can get this round the Nurgurgring''

Nesnah · Sep 17, 2022

Anyone ran spacers on their Bridgestones? Wondering what is safe on those..10mm all round?

billymc92 · Sep 17, 2022

Nesnah said:
Anyone ran spacers on their Bridgestones? Wondering what is safe on those..10mm all round?

I have 15mm all round on them, no issues of rubbing.

But about to lower it 20mm so gonna change the spacers to 10mm and see how that is.
On the P-zeros I was lowered 25mm with 20mm on rear and 15 front. Did rub on rear though so changed to 15mm all round

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