S4 Diesel Wins Drag Race against old RS4

WarwickBoy

WarwickBoy

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See this CarWow video entitled “Audi RS5 vs RS4 vs S4 vs old:RS4 Drag Race Closer than you think”

The new S4 TDI is pitched against higher segment RS4 cars. The final conclusion from Matt Watson was “The S4 did win the drag race and that is what matters”. (5:10)

The “closer than you think comment in the title refers to how close the S4 TDI diesel was to the higher segment RS4 cars.

A good result for the S4 I think.

 
It won-just... He also said the B7 RS4 was catching it and in the rolling race it loses noticeably to the RS4. Still, 100bhp down, 300kg up and diesel versus petrol and I don’t think it’s too bad of a showing overall to be honest. :)


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Agree it’s not a bad showing for the oil burner. And that 700nM of torque (which is more than some Lambos) is awesome!
 
S4 no where near the RS5 though so model gaps still protected. I always said that the RS4/5 was not powerful enough from the factory and too close to the RS3; I had a tuning box on mine giving 520hp and 560ft2 torque which imho is what it should have been from Audi.

TX.

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Wonder if the next S5 will also be a 700nM oil burner and beat the outgoing RS5 in a drag race?
 
I find it interesting to compare the rev gauges through the gears. The B9 S4 gauge does look like it moves more slowly than the others?
 
Evil Derboy said:
Manufacturers have "fleet emission targets" in Europe. This is why Aston Martin developed the Cygnet (A rebadged Toyota city car). VW is the largest car manufacturer in Europe/the world and is the most exposed to new stricter rules in force this year. It is/was facing billions of euros in fines for not meeting these targets and it's likely that they have sacrifced the petrol engines in all of their S models (obviously the S6/S7 is diesel now as well) to give them the headroom to keep petrol engines in the RS line-up.

The new rules mean that only 5% of the entire manufacturers European car line-up can produce more than 95g/km of Co2 per mile. So depending on where their product mix sits, they may have had to ditch the Petrol S engines just to get under or closer to that target.
Click to expand...
In terms of the discussion relating to this video as to the switch from petrol to diesel for the S4?

Yes, I think this is a key driver behind the more to the more efficient, yet powerful diesel engine for the range topping S4, as also alluded to in this news item from Autocar which states

The mild hybrid diesel engine is the same as that recently introduced on the S5, S6 and S7 Sportback models, albeit in a moderately different state of tune, with 342bhp. It's the only engine that will be offered in the European market for those models, and it's likely that Audi will continue that trend with the S4, given the need to meet new WLTP tests and fleet emission targets.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/audi-s4-and-s4-avant-gain-new-342bhp-mild-hybrid-diesel
 
WarwickBoy said:
See this CarWow video entitled “Audi RS5 vs RS4 vs S4 vs old:RS4 Drag Race Closer than you think”

The new S4 TDI is pitched against higher segment RS4 cars. The final conclusion from Matt Watson was “The S4 did win the drag race and that is what matters”. (5:10)

The “closer than you think comment in the title refers to how close the S4 TDI diesel was to the higher segment RS4 cars.

A good result for the S4 I think.

Click to expand...

RS4 is 13 years old and would have lost some ponies along the way but it is a good showing for the derv. I still think being a diesel has alienated a lot of drivers but I'd still have one.
 
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The old RS4'S were lucky if they made the rated output when new. And if they haven't been looked after and had the intake ports cleaned every few years then they can be well down on power. For a practical quick every day car I would take the diesel estate. It's unfortunate but I don't think Audi are going to sell many of them with the current decline in diesel sales. I was surprised it wasn't a bit quicker with it's autobox. I have managed a 13.1 s 1/4 in my 380bhp 3.0 diesel but I have a manual gearbox.
 
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I like these car wow vids, they mix up some interesting runs with all sort of cars.

I still think the Diesel S4 is sorrowful step backwards, its a fair bit slower than the petrol version and sounds well...
 
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Boosted_Six said:
I like these car wow vids, they mix up some interesting runs with all sort of cars.

I still think the Diesel S4 is sorrowful step backwards, its a fair bit slower than the petrol version and sounds well...
Click to expand...

A fair bit slower? Really?
Outgoing petrol 0-62 (Saloon) 0-62: 4.7 seconds
New diesel 0-62 (Saloon) 0-62: 4.8 seconds
A 2 % difference

"just a tenth shy of the old S4"

Let's be objective here.
Yes it is not petrol.
Yes is does not sound as good as a petrol car.
Yes it has fake exhausts.
Yes it even feels slower.

But it is not "a fair bit slower that the petrol version" by any objective measure.

And as the car magazine reviews states "in real world terms, it'll be quicker from point to point than the previous petrol model."
 
Last edited:
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^^ yes but how much quicker would a petrol one have been ...

TX.

Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk
 
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WarwickBoy said:
A fair bit slower? Really?
Outgoing petrol 0-62 (Saloon) 0-62: 4.7 seconds
New diesel 0-62 (Saloon) 0-62: 4.8 seconds
A 2 % difference

"just a tenth shy of the old S4"

Let's be objective here.
Yes it is not petrol.
Yes is does not sound as good as a petrol car.
Yes it has fake exhausts.
Yes it even feels slower.

But it is not "a fair bit slower that the petrol version" by any objective measure.

And as the car magazine reviews states "in real world terms, it'll be quicker from point to point than the previous petrol model."
Click to expand...

I like objective data too, glad we agree.

Most petrol S4 owners who test with dragy or similar see ~4.4sec 0-60 stock in the real world (sedan/saloon). It would be interesting to see what the 2019 Diesel manages on the street.

Then for the quarter mile high 12's 13 flat @ 107mph. I predict the 2019 is about half a second+ slower over this distance.

Half a second at 107mph covers 78 feet, that would be a 5 car length win. The Diesel is a fair bit slower...
 
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I have to say that I do find much of the debate entirely redundant. I'll never drive my lease S4 TDI abroad, or on track, nor on a 'private road'. Therefore I'll never drive it at 100mph or anywhere particularly close. Nor will I be doing a drag race at the traffic lights. What I will be doing is commuting with a decent mpg (around 38) and having some fun at the weekend, where the massive torque gets me from town speeds to around the national limit very effectively indeed. Don't get me wrong, if I had been buying I would not have used my own money to purchase a diesel. But I didn't. Wringing the revs out of a petrol car is, ultimately, more satisfying but in a high performance petrol car you simply can't do that properly without exceeding speed limits. On which note, the Europe wide speed enforcement campaign, very much including the UK, starts on Monday 13th January for 3 weeks. Be careful out there.
 
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Boosted_Six said:
I like objective data too, glad we agree.

Most petrol S4 owners who test with dragy or similar see ~4.4sec 0-60 stock in the real world (sedan/saloon). It would be interesting to see what the 2019 Diesel manages on the street.

Then for the quarter mile high 12's 13 flat @ 107mph. I predict the 2019 is about half a second+ slower over this distance.

Half a second at 107mph covers 78 feet, that would be a 5 car length win. The Diesel is a fair bit slower...
Click to expand...

To keep up the objectivity, we would need to compare what "most S4 petrol owners see" and what "most S4 diesel owners see". As you say, it will be interesting to see what the 2019 diesel manages on the street.

How to I test this. If I get my mate in the car with his stopwatch this is not going to be objective I don't think? :search: Is there are agreed app that uses GPS to measure such things, and is there a standard. Happy to test mine on a private road if easy enough to do and report back.
 
WarwickBoy said:
To keep up the objectivity, we would need to compare what "most S4 petrol owners see" and what "most S4 diesel owners see". As you say, it will be interesting to see what the 2019 diesel manages on the street.

How to I test this. If I get my mate in the car with his stopwatch this is not going to be objective I don't think? :search: Is there are agreed app that uses GPS to measure such things, and is there a standard. Happy to test mine on a private road if easy enough to do and report back.
Click to expand...

Draggy would be the one that springs to mind. Or a V-Box if you know anyone with one!


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£134 I don’t care that much! I think I’m with ZippyToo who I think has made the a well informed contribution to this thread, although my S4 will most probably get some Autobahn time this summer.
 
IMO I see the S4 For the potential It possibly has with a 3.0 turbo engine as a very good start to something specially. I can see why Audi have done it because people buy the S4 tune it to be faster than the rs4 for cheaper than the 20k difference.

I can see a lot of the buyers for the new S4 being company cars and the people like me if buying a new model would probably jump to the BMW M340i.

it’s a shame that Audi have done this to the S4 because I feel like it has lost what the S4 was all about. But at the end of the day they’re a Bussiness and if it makes more money in this platform they will continue with the Diesel engine.
 
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A12RNX said:
IMO I see the S4 For the potential It possibly has with a 3.0 turbo engine as a very good start to something specially. I can see why Audi have done it because people buy the S4 tune it to be faster than the rs4 for cheaper than the 20k difference.
Click to expand...

The new S4 can still be tuned. For example Germany-based Abt Sportsline has turned its hand to the latest Audi S4, upping power and fettling aesthetics to help it stand apart from standard examples.
https://www.evo.co.uk/audi/s4/201956/new-audi-s4-pushed-to-378bhp-by-abt-sportsline

In this instance, the tuner has equipped the S4 with its very own engine control unit, helping the hybrid-assistive 3-litre V6 TDI power plant reach 378bhp and a tarmac-tearing 560lb ft of torque, up 34bhp and 44lb ft over standard.

Are you saying that petrol engines are easier for enthusiasts (not big companies) to tune?
 
WarwickBoy said:
The new S4 can still be tuned. For example Germany-based Abt Sportsline has turned its hand to the latest Audi S4, upping power and fettling aesthetics to help it stand apart from standard examples.
https://www.evo.co.uk/audi/s4/201956/new-audi-s4-pushed-to-378bhp-by-abt-sportsline

In this instance, the tuner has equipped the S4 with its very own engine control unit, helping the hybrid-assistive 3-litre V6 TDI power plant reach 378bhp and a tarmac-tearing 560lb ft of torque, up 34bhp and 44lb ft over standard.

Are you saying that petrol engines are easier for enthusiasts (not big companies) to tune?
Click to expand...

Not saying that but the rewards aren’t as great. You have to spend a fortune to get the same performance.

diesels are great but once the torque output is so high it will then become terrible when launching it off the line. Be good for B road lorry over taking though.
 
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Checking out the weights of the saloon 2018 vs 2020 it is 195kg heavier. Which is a lot.
 
WarwickBoy said:
A fair bit slower? Really?
Outgoing petrol 0-62 (Saloon) 0-62: 4.7 seconds
New diesel 0-62 (Saloon) 0-62: 4.8 seconds
A 2 % difference

"just a tenth shy of the old S4"

Let's be objective here.
Yes it is not petrol.
Yes is does not sound as good as a petrol car.
Yes it has fake exhausts.
Yes it even feels slower.

But it is not "a fair bit slower that the petrol version" by any objective measure.

And as the car magazine reviews states "in real world terms, it'll be quicker from point to point than the previous petrol model."
Click to expand...

Think the main point is that the new model should be faster, otherwise you’re only getting a new body and interior...

Then the fact it’s slower makes it even worse, slower than a 13.5 year old RS4, yes it’s an RS but it’s 2 generations behind the current equivalent, the 8V S3 is faster than the 8L S3 because it’s the natural progression over 2 more generations...
 
This is what a 13 year old RS4 V8 typically looks like unless its regularly de-coked. They are luckily if they make stock power from new.
b7b1768d4245291e8b0fdc1dcb250c48.jpg
 
Boosted_Six said:
This is what a 13 year old RS4 V8 typically looks like unless its regularly de-coked. They are luckily if they make stock power from new.
b7b1768d4245291e8b0fdc1dcb250c48.jpg
Click to expand...

I had a drag with an e92 m3 and b8.5 rs5.

The e92 I comfortably took and it only started gaining on me after 100mph, and the race had already ended by then.

The rs5 however was level with me the whole way and eventually nipped ahead but only just. And this was when I had the tdi tuning box on! Sure I'd do even better this time around with the full ecu and tcu remap
 
Just been discovering what a B eight point five is. There’s no specific Audi-sport.net forum so think either B8 or B9 forum is the home for discussion of this model. :icon thumright:
 
WarwickBoy said:
Wonder if the next S5 will also be a 700nM oil burner and beat the outgoing RS5 in a drag race?
Click to expand...
To the first part of the question, yes.

It combines a 3.0-litre TDI diesel with a 48V mild-hybrid system and electrically-powered compressor, and produces 516lb ft of torque between 2500 and 3100rpm.

The diesel engine allows the S5 coupe to achieve 0-62mph in 4.8secs, the five-door Sportback version being 0.1secs slower. Both models are electronically limited to 155mph.

The 3.0-litre petrol V6 previously used in the S5 had a slightly greater output with 349bhp, although, at 369lb ft, it produced significantly less torque. Audi also claims the new unit consumes 19 per cent less fuel than the previous petrol version, at a claimed 45.56 mpg. That figure was calculated on the NEDC test cycle, derived from WLTP values.

Full report: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/audi-s5-switches-345bhp-mild-hybrid-diesel

Looks stunning I must say:

Upload 2020 1 17 18 47 27
 
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WarwickBoy said:
Just been discovering what a B eight point five is. There’s no specific Audi-sport.net forum so think either B8 or B9 forum is the home for discussion of this model. :icon thumright:
Click to expand...

well it’s a face lifted B8 and has nothing in common with the B9 at all so would say that the B8 forum is the place for it.
 
syed123 said:
I had a drag with an e92 m3 and b8.5 rs5.

The e92 I comfortably took and it only started gaining on me after 100mph, and the race had already ended by then.

The rs5 however was level with me the whole way and eventually nipped ahead but only just. And this was when I had the tdi tuning box on! Sure I'd do even better this time around with the full ecu and tcu remap
Click to expand...

The old tuned vs stock argument. Hardly a fair comparison and RS/AMG/M models aren’t just about straight line speed....
 
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WarwickBoy said:

The 3.0-litre petrol V6 previously used in the S5 had a slightly greater output with 349bhp, although, at 369lb ft, it produced significantly less torque. Audi also claims the new unit consumes 19 per cent less fuel than the previous petrol version, at a claimed 45.56 mpg. That figure was calculated on the NEDC test cycle, derived from WLTP values.
Click to expand...

Which ZF gear box does the TDI S4 use now, it cant be the same as the petrol due to higher torque input and longer ratios required?

From the ratios I can work out the actual wheel torque vs the petrol
 
Hi all, new to the forums.

Currently coming out of a VW Golf 7.5 GTD and have recently ordered a new S4 TDI for collection in March.

Similarly interested if anyone knows which ZF gearbox the S4 TDI utilises, is it the same as the B9.5 RS4?

Not sure what the torque rating is? Potentially considering a TDI Tuning box which delivers performance of (+68hp) 410bhp and (+98nm) 798nm.
 
It should be ZF8HP-55AF, but to confirm it if anyone can find the Audi SSP for EA897 evo 2 that would be good.
 
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