Not a great show for the new diesel S4!
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Why was the title “Not a great show for the new diesel S4!”. Did you actually mean “A great show for the new S4 diesel!”.
It is pitched against higher segment cars (RS models) The final conclusion from Matt was, against a supposedly higher end car (the RS4) was”The (diesel) S4 did win the drag race and that is what really matters” (5:10)
It is pitched against higher segment cars (RS models) The final conclusion from Matt was, against a supposedly higher end car (the RS4) was”The (diesel) S4 did win the drag race and that is what really matters” (5:10)
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Yeah I know what you mean but it’s hardly progress for the much newer S4 up against a much older RS model excluding the RS5/3 as obviously you wouldn’t expect anything different there.
Coming from a B9 S4 I was all up for considering a new S4 hoping for a bit more power but as soon as they put a diesel motor in it I was out!
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No idea mate, they seem to be able to ‘tweak’ all other engines to meet the requirements? I’d have preferred a slightly quieter but powerful petrol engine if it was just the case of putting in some filters but the petrol S4 was hardly the loudest of exhausts, not sure about emissions?
That diesel S4 although still good performance is just a step back IMO, and with the fake exhausts and that sound!!
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It beat the old RS4 which isn't hard as most are running 350hp due to coking up!
TX.
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Mine was first
And the OP of the other post even posted on this thread?? Guess he didn’t like my thread title
I think the S4 performance was pretty impressive for a diesel. Audi have taken a different direction with the S4/5 now, to try appeal to a bigger market with improved economy etc so there has to be compromises.
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No they haven’t. They couldn’t get the petrol engine to pass new emissions tests and so had to swap it out for a diesel or develop a new engine - not something they’d do with electric firmly into their radar.
This is why it’s only the European versions that are getting diesel and the rest of the world is still getting them in petrol form.
So how does an RS4 pass? Not disagreeing with you just wondering, do they pay add an emission tax?
There's a number of factors involved in this rather than it simply being down to that particular engine to be honest.
The 2.9 RS4/RS5 engine, developed by Porsche, is a reworked version of the 3.0 petrol unit found in the S4/S5 and was already WLTP compliant at launch.
Manufacturers have "fleet emission targets" in Europe. This is why Aston Martin developed the Cygnet (A rebadged Toyota city car). VW is the largest car manufacturer in Europe/the world and is the most exposed to new stricter rules in force this year. It is/was facing billions of euros in fines for not meeting these targets and it's likely that they have sacrifced the petrol engines in all of their S models (obviously the S6/S7 is diesel now as well) to give them the headroom to keep petrol engines in the RS line-up.
The new rules mean that only 5% of the entire manufacturers European car line-up can produce more than 95g/km of Co2 per mile. So depending on where their product mix sits, they may have had to ditch the Petrol S engines just to get under or closer to that target.
There's still a customer base for a diesel S car but no one is going to buy a diesel RS - they'll simply go to M or AMG instead.
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I would guess @ 2018 vs 2019 the petrol would be low 13's / 13 flat and the diesel half a second slower consistently. Rolling would not help the Diesel as it heavier and has a few 1000 rpm less in each gear. Engine torque VS Wheel torque.
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S4 petrol would smoke it badly Look at the carwow race with New M340i X drive which the old petrol S4 competes with in terms of performance figures .
The S4 petrol would reach 62mph 0.1 seconds before the S4 diesel. I would hardly describe that as "smoking badly" rather "just beating".
Unless you are saying that you think Audi's quoted figures are widely wrong.
I've seen Audi understate 0-62mph times before, so either cars figures could be incorrect. Loads of people in the comments seems to be calling for an stock B9 S4 petrol vs stock B9 diesel. I guess that is the only way to see for sure.
Let's hope Carwow or another channel arrange such a drag race.
S4 Petrol vs 
S4 diesel 
Unless you are saying that you think Audi's quoted figures are widely wrong.
I've seen Audi understate 0-62mph times before, so either cars figures could be incorrect. Loads of people in the comments seems to be calling for an stock B9 S4 petrol vs stock B9 diesel. I guess that is the only way to see for sure.
Let's hope Carwow or another channel arrange such a drag race.
S4 Petrol vs S4 diesel I don't know why but official Audi S/RS 0-60, is just Like BMW m/M cars power figures. Sandbagged.
After driving an s7 tdi, s4 petrol saloon and having my own a4 272 tdi remapped, I'd say the s4 petrol is not necessarily quicker in any conditions.
Yeah it sounds better and revs out, but u really do feel the torque deficit in my opinion.
The s7 tdi feels very lazy, so it's definitely not the best car for any type of racing. Yes it's torquey and feels very powerful but it didn't seem like a car that wanted to be pushed so in that regard I'm not surprised the s4 tdi lost as much as it did (still think it did ok)
My a4 272 remapped in comparison feels much more responsive than both and when you downshift it really does kick you back.
Where as the s4 petrol was more about thrills and revving out I honestly felt a stronger kick in my 272. Im guessing it's putting out at least 750nm of torque and over 330bhp so hence I felt mine was quicker than the petrol equivalent.
I also had a drag and roll with a friend's s5 convertible yes I know it's a soft top but I came on top on both. (My cars doing a 4.3 0 60 time)
I think if the new tdi s cars are set up correctly they'd do much better.
And after driving both I'd say the s4 petrol is much more sporty and exciting where the s7 tdi is a laid back lazy cruiser.
I'm sure if they properly optimized the s cars responsiveness it would feel quicker than the petrol and do better on that race, can only imagine what a proper remap would do.
Yeah it sounds better and revs out, but u really do feel the torque deficit in my opinion.
The s7 tdi feels very lazy, so it's definitely not the best car for any type of racing. Yes it's torquey and feels very powerful but it didn't seem like a car that wanted to be pushed so in that regard I'm not surprised the s4 tdi lost as much as it did (still think it did ok)
My a4 272 remapped in comparison feels much more responsive than both and when you downshift it really does kick you back.
Where as the s4 petrol was more about thrills and revving out I honestly felt a stronger kick in my 272. Im guessing it's putting out at least 750nm of torque and over 330bhp so hence I felt mine was quicker than the petrol equivalent.
I also had a drag and roll with a friend's s5 convertible yes I know it's a soft top but I came on top on both. (My cars doing a 4.3 0 60 time)
I think if the new tdi s cars are set up correctly they'd do much better.
And after driving both I'd say the s4 petrol is much more sporty and exciting where the s7 tdi is a laid back lazy cruiser.
I'm sure if they properly optimized the s cars responsiveness it would feel quicker than the petrol and do better on that race, can only imagine what a proper remap would do.
Yes but remap an s4 petrol and you'd be back to square one, can't really compare standard with modded
That's also true.
But what I and others like is the ability the v6 tdi has of blending fuel economy with good performance.
The petrol is the more exciting drive though no debate on that.
I had a good race with an RS3 with my mapped 272. It wasn’t pulling massively away from me, only ever so slightly. At first I wasn’t sure if it was an RS as I was expecting it to leave me well behind, but as it got in front I saw the big exhausts hanging out the back and the badges. Although the RS3 sounded absolutely mega. I’d have one of them if I didn’t do so many miles. I’ll see if the video is still on my dash cam.
We gotta see that video! When I first got my a4 and put a tdi tuning box on I recorded a race between mine and my friends 2litre 252 tfsi a4.
You might have thought it's not a good comparison but that 2litre tfsi moves! It felt quicker to me than a tts courtesy car which is the same engine but more power.
My cars the black one that won, 272 with a tdi box on and maybe just 2k miles at the time.
The other was also a new 252 tfsi saloon. I read somewhere that they put out around 270-280bhp stock so believe me they are quick.
S4 TDI does 1/4 mile in 13,6. Mine stock petrol S4 B9 does in 12,5-12,6, with box, wagner and milltek nonres in about 11,7-11,8. 0-100 in minę took 4,5 as stock, in TDI one its 4,8 (both draggy measured, same conditions). Those differences are huge, TDI should be around 420/800 to keep up with the preFL.
I really don't think it's so much down to the tdi needing 400bhp plus 800nm.
On paper at least and even 1k down on the rev band the tdi basically makes more or less the same power as the petrol plus is 200nm up on torque.
That difference in torque is very noticeable imo as I've test drove all 3 Inc my mapped 272.
I personally think it's down to a combination of gearing, weight and them trying to make it wltp compliant.
The gearbox in the s7 tdi I test drove was very nice but wen flooring it off the line and even with launch control engaged, there was at least a second or 2 delay before the car actually moved. Where as in mine as soon as u let go after 3500 revs, u get an instant slingshot and u fly forward with virtually no lag.
If there wasn't that 1 or 2 second delay when flooring it, using lc or even flooring it from a roll I'm confident this s4 tdi would have done much better.
No point having all that torque for if it can't be used efficiently!
As mentioned in the other thread re weight differences, the new S4 diesel Avant is 1825kg vs the B9 S4 Petrol Avant at 1675kg. That is considerable.
In addition to the extra weight of a cast iron block. Something I find that many diesel owners don't understand is gearing. When your redline is 4500 rpm rather than 6500 - 7000 rpm you need longer gear ratios or you will find yourself approaching redline in 8th at 80mph. This means the torque amplification at the wheel is lower with all other things remaining constant (e.g. final drive, wheel size etc). So the extra torque at the engine doesn't translate to much (if any) extra torque at the wheel where it matters. What makes these cars feel fast is the surge of torque from 1500rpm, it pins you to your seat right away.
I understand where your coming from there but I still feel an amazing pull from 100mph onwards, in fact the pull feels even more immense as it would from 50mph as the torque peaks at 2500rpm so you just feel like your waving a mountain of torque.
It feels like your being pushed by some other worldly force when you feel the surge of torque even after 100mph when diesels are supposed to run out of puff, mine just keeps pulling.
I know sounds like an exaggeration lol but other owners with the same engine will know the feeling
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No chance Lol the M340i X drive beat it bad And like I said that’s what the Petrol S4 competes with . The S4 Tdi in my opinion is a huge failure from Audi You buy an S car For character may as well save your money and buy an A4 Tdi.
Here’s a comparison
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Nope The S4 Petrol Records times close to the low 4 secs mark. The S4 Tdi is slow if you look at online acceleration videos and compare the Performance figures with the petrolThe S4 petrol would reach 62mph 0.1 seconds before the S4 diesel. I would hardly describe that as "smoking badly" rather "just beating".
Unless you are saying that you think Audi's quoted figures are widely wrong.
I've seen Audi understate 0-62mph times before, so either cars figures could be incorrect. Loads of people in the comments seems to be calling for an stock B9 S4 petrol vs stock B9 diesel. I guess that is the only way to see for sure.
Let's hope Carwow or another channel arrange such a drag race.
To be fair the s4 tdi keeps up with the m340i just fine up to about 200km where the BMW is a least 10kmh ahead and keeps increasing its lead.
Also bear in mind that the bm has 380ish hp and I'm guessing it probably puts out more in the real world! The Audi is at least 200kg heavier, over 40hp less, plus has a lower rev band.
And let's not forget about the awful lag that the s4 tdi has from a standstill which I'm sure the bm doesn't have.
Tbh the tdi didn't do badly at all! Yes the bm is the quicker car but the tdi is quick enough for what it is.
Yes it won't please all the die hard enthusiasts but it has its own appeal.
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If you look at these stats off automobile catalogue you'll see the s4 tdi does 0 60 in 4.5 compared to 4.4 for the s4 petrol.
The differences in real world probably won't be noticeable as the diesel still has significantly more torque, the pull is much stronger imo and as you can see the petrol does get the better though as the speed increases but I still wouldn't say it's getting smoked.
In gear tests also show the s4 tdi being the quicker car in those tests.
At the end of the day they are both 2 completely diff cars! Both have their merits..
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Great to see some more objective analysis backed up up by statistics. Definitely not objective to state that the petrol “smoked” the diesel as your post suggests.
In terms of in the real world owners don’t tend to have drag races or go over 70mph /120kph so largely irrelevant to 95% owners so my prediction is that in the UK the new diesel S4 will sell just as well as the old petrol S4 (unless Brexit related tariffs bump up the price significantly) but let’s see what the sales figures show (I reserve the right to be wrong
) Great to see some more objective analysis backed up up by statistics. Definitely not objective to state that the petrol “smoked” the diesel as your post suggests.
In terms of in the real world owners don’t tend to have drag races or go over 70mph /120kph so largely irrelevant to 95% owners so my prediction is that in the UK the new diesel S4 will sell just as well as the old petrol S4 (unless Brexit related tariffs bump up the price significantly) but let’s see what the sales figures show (I reserve the right to be wrong
Thing is I can understand why the die hard petrol heads are annoyed. As the 's' stood for sporty, enthusiastic, thrilling, and it's hard to make a diesel like that.
The v6tdi is none of those things but one thing it is is really smooth, muscular in its power delivery n very relaxing to drive fast with no fuss.
So for people like us who actually like the benefits diesel 6s bring like economy/performance and people who do lots of motorway miles it will appeal, but not to the original fan base..
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Fair enough mate But Honestly after driving a Tdi don’t think I could live with one I just love the sound too much of a petrol . If I was Gonna buy a Diesel It would be A Bmw not an Audi
So, in summary
Diesel one stinks, Petrol one doesn't
Diesel one is heavier but has more torque to help
Diesel is a bit more economical but not as much as what was first thought
Petrol one more interesting to drive and sounds much better
Petrol one can still be driven in most city centres
Diesel has laughable fake exhaust
Both quickish
Anything I've missed ?
Diesel one stinks, Petrol one doesn't
Diesel one is heavier but has more torque to help
Diesel is a bit more economical but not as much as what was first thought
Petrol one more interesting to drive and sounds much better
Petrol one can still be driven in most city centres
Diesel has laughable fake exhaust
Both quickish
Anything I've missed ?
A agree with all of the points except this one
- Petrol one can still be driven in most city centres
I understand that the diesel one can still be driven in most city centres. Objectively are diesels allowed to drive in more than 50% of the world's city centres? My understanding is yes. My understanding is that this point should be
- Petrol and Diesel S4 can still be driven in most city centres
I have a few points to add;
- Diesel S4 is cheaper to finance than a 1 year old used approved S4 petrol.
- Diesel S4 the warranty goes further into the future that the S4 petrol.
- Diesel S4 CO2 emissions are lower than the outgoing S4 petrol.
- The mild hybrid system on the diesel S4 is designed to make the responsiveness "more like a petrol car" while achieving better efficiency. It does not fully achieve this.
I drove both back to back and chose the diesel. I'll post my review. However fully understand why some people will prefer the petrol. Everyone has there own reasons. I think both are very good cars.
- Petrol one can still be driven in most city centres
I understand that the diesel one can still be driven in most city centres. Objectively are diesels allowed to drive in more than 50% of the world's city centres? My understanding is yes. My understanding is that this point should be
- Petrol and Diesel S4 can still be driven in most city centres
I have a few points to add;
- Diesel S4 is cheaper to finance than a 1 year old used approved S4 petrol.
- Diesel S4 the warranty goes further into the future that the S4 petrol.
- Diesel S4 CO2 emissions are lower than the outgoing S4 petrol.
- The mild hybrid system on the diesel S4 is designed to make the responsiveness "more like a petrol car" while achieving better efficiency. It does not fully achieve this.
I drove both back to back and chose the diesel. I'll post my review. However fully understand why some people will prefer the petrol. Everyone has there own reasons. I think both are very good cars.
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