Very wet driver footwell, any common suspects?

Russboy

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So i've noticed for a while that by the bonnet pull there have been drips, but thought I might have clipped it with my wet shoes when climbing in.

Today I could see the drips running down, lifted the mat & have a soaking wet carpet.

Opened the sunroof to see if the drains might be blocked but no build up of water. Will strip the trim off over the weekend, but are there any common causes? Lifted the cover off of the fuses & some water in there so obviously starts higher up.

Here's the most boring picture of the day!

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Russ
 
Check the cover is fitted on the ECU/ Relay/ fuse box under the bonnet. If you remove the panel on the drivers side at the back of the engine bay you will see the cover. It it held on with 3 torx screws. If it's not fitted correctly you could get a leak. Has the car had a recent windscreen replacement, they may not have sealed it correctly.
 
Check the cover is fitted on the ECU/ Relay/ fuse box under the bonnet. If you remove the panel on the drivers side at the back of the engine bay you will see the cover. It it held on with 3 torx screws. If it's not fitted correctly you could get a leak. Has the car had a recent windscreen replacement, they may not have sealed it correctly.

Not had a screen in my ownership (since April last year) but have noticed continually the fog on the inside of the screen, originally thought it was from the rear wash wiper that was leaking, sorted that.

Will strip the panels off at the weekend to have a look, but thanks for the shout on the under the bonnet bits, will def check that out.
 
As above suggested and also check for the drain clogs behind wheels. They cause the most problems as water has to go somewhere if they blocked.

Looking at your pictures, it has to be somewhere above bonnet release, on the A pillar.
Windscreen indication is not a bad tip.
Strip the car from around this area and gently pour some water over the windscreen and pillar.


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As above suggested and also check for the drain clogs behind wheels. They cause the most problems as water has to go somewhere if they blocked.

Looking at your pictures, it has to be somewhere above bonnet release, on the A pillar.
Windscreen indication is not a bad tip.
Strip the car from around this area and gently pour some water over the windscreen and pillar.


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Drain clogs? does that mean wheels off & remove the inner arch to have a look?
 
along the each side of the roof, there are channels which drain water down A and C/D pillars to the bottom of the windscreen/rear screen. Front one, from A pillar, drop down behind front wheel onto the ground. If that is clogged, you will get water inside the cab. Clogs usually happen from build up dirt, small objects/particles and also leaves.
I personally wouldn't know how to remove any clogs like that but know it can be done.
 
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The bulkhead plenum area is the usual culprit. The passenger side drain plug you should be able reach, but the driver's side one has brake servo covering access. Double check with a torch to see there no residual water pooling there. I used a little washing up detergent in piping hot water and a long handle paint brush to clean surfaces so water would drain properly. In the end I removed the passenger side rubber star-shaped drain grommet as it's likely to block again. Run hose in it to clear.

Again - good call regards windscreen having been replaced recently.

But having said that - as soon as you mentioned panoramic sunroof I thought sunroof cassette. I have a similar problem on my B8.5 Allroad and eventually traced leak to that. The sunroof mechanism is mounted in an integral sunroof cassette, it's that part - that I found was leaking. On my car it was running down the passenger side foot-well, so I needed to remove the glove-box, etc.

Before attempting this job to investigate, then remove power to battery (leave for 30 minutes), then take off A pillar trim off (details further on), pour warm water on roof and see if water drips appear at the headlining meets the A pillar trim as that will confirm that's the source of the leak.

There's front, side and A pillar airbags, so don't attempt without disconnecting battery first.

Next, remove interior grab handles at the front. You need a special hook tool to remove plastic wedge once screws are out, but you can improvise. Now interior passenger side and driver's sun visors. Next the rubber door weather surrounds, paying special attention as to how they fit. Lastly the A pillar trim. Under the plastic airbag badge - there is a screw which needs to be removed.

If it's like mine, then water was dripping from the sunroof cassette at the front, onto the roof lining and then down the A pillar trim which overlaps it. The A pillar trim is plastic and fabric covered so you're never going to see damp patches appear.

With everything off you can access under roof lining. Be careful and don't haul it off as it creases. You're going to refit so don't fully pull down or away from front of sunroof, just enough to access. Obviously, choose a decent day to do this, with plenty light and give yourself adequate time to do. This is a driveway or workshop job only.

You can test with warm water and run into the water channel of the open sunroof. Most will drain through sunroof drains. The front sunroof drains exit just below the door hinges, but chances are you'll see a drip start at the cassette. It can also leak at the sunroof drains (as a rubber tube attaches here). I added a micro-cable tie just in case. To rule out blocked drains - run some nylon strimmer cable through the drain holes. You'll never get it to run all the way down - but it's a start.

To fix, get some Sikaflex 291. This stuff comes in black and white and is basically a waterproof adhesive or sealant, but is specific for marine use. Dry off the area where drip appears and liberally apply Sikaflex and smooth off to around a couple of inches in diameter. Trust me, you don't want to do this job again. It cures quite quickly, so you can start reassembling within an hour.

Once everything is reassembled, look at sunroof from above. The drain channel that runs around the sunroof may even have a hairline crack in it. You can choose to run a little Sikaflex here too. I used a strip of Gorilla tape to seal. Leave for 24 hours before washing car and avoid Karcher type pressure washer near the sunroof, other than over it, not directly on top if that makes sense.

Connect battery again, hopefully no airbag lights. I did have one fault but cleared with VCDS software. Anyway, best of luck and let us know how you get on.
 

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Brilliant write up, thanks.

Will strip it down at the weekend and start to look for obvious clues wet trim, any sponge materials holding water, that kind of thing.

Once stripped will sit in the car with a hose running over the top to see if i can recreate.
 
Definitely coming from the sunroof, even managed to catch a drip in action!

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Now to work out how to drop the roof lining a bit for a better look, i've got spartacus's guide so gonna give it a go!
 
All done, I have to say whoever designed how the front grab handles into the roof is a ****ing moron, god they are horrible to remove! Removed both, also both sun visors, A pillar trims, central light console & dropped the roof lining.

This is the view from the drivers side looking up and out through the sunroof, quite obvious what the problem is!

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There's quite a lot of slack so unclipped & had it outside of the car.

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Took it off completely & out with the silicone.

Remembered that when I hard wired my dashcam I saw light rust dust spots from deposits of water, so thought id do the passenger side as well. Just as well as when I tested it there was a drip, much slower but still dripping. Passenger side got the same treatment. Closer inspection the roof lining has marks so has def been like that for a while.

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Before I bolted everything back up I connected them on both sides & poured half a watering can into each side of the sunroof, nice & dry.

Chinese on order as a reward!!
 
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Good job Russboy. The interior grab handles are an absolute pain. I might invest in the correct trim removal tool which makes it straight forward. Any airbag codes when everything was refitted?
 
Great that you’ve managed to pun the cause of the problem and sort it out.
Luckily, headlining didn’t soaked through and left any stains behind.
Reward well earned


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Good job Russboy. The interior grab handles are an absolute pain. I might invest in the correct trim removal tool which makes it straight forward. Any airbag codes when everything was refitted?

No lights up, haven't run a scan at all.

Both handles lost the ability to hold their position against the roof lining but worked out how to set them up again, but was an absolute PITA!!
 
Hi everyone. Probably it might not be the right place to post but I believe even so good old Google will lead someone struggling to find the issue over here. After all summer chasing the water into my drivers footwell on A6 C5, reading as much posts as i can, finally i have solved the mystery. As it was hot summer in UK and lots of A/C usage i have thought that is a drainage blockage. Did not make sense as it was driver’s side footwell. After that i got well flooded in a car wash and started to look for the issue properly. Drainages under battery of course were clogged but even after unblocking these out, i still had a wet carpet. So to cut the story short i ended up taking the glove box and under steering wheel access panel out. Got someone with a hose spraying water over the wind screen and saw a drip right over the steering shaft joint right next to the fire wall. In a good inspection i have found out that was a rubber bung/grommet fitted next to the servo. Since siliconed it well i drive with a dry socks even in the most heavy rains by now))))). Hope that can be a bit of a guide for those who can not sort the issue out easily as me. Please refer to pictures so you can easily figure out the location of that grommet i am talking about.
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@Russboy with regards to your fix of your leak, the images of what you found are no longer showing. @spartacus 68 your post is excellent. I have the exact same issue as you explain and am about to undertake a strip down and try and fix. Both your content will help me fix my issue. The leak is definitely coming from the sunroof from underneath a spring like strip of metal at the front side of the cassette. Not sure what that is for or why all of a sudden it’s started to leak. Drivers side floor carpet is soaked. Getting that dry is more my concern.
 
@Russboy with regards to your fix of your leak, the images of what you found are no longer showing. @spartacus 68 your post is excellent. I have the exact same issue as you explain and am about to undertake a strip down and try and fix. Both your content will help me fix my issue. The leak is definitely coming from the sunroof from underneath a spring like strip of metal at the front side of the cassette. Not sure what that is for or why all of a sudden it’s started to leak. Drivers side floor carpet is soaked. Getting that dry is more my concern.

Part ex'd my S4 as the gearbox was on it's way out back in May last year.

Think these were the pics, had deleted them but re uploaded:

This is the view from the drivers side looking up and out through the sunroof, quite obvious what the problem is!

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There's quite a lot of slack so unclipped & had it outside of the car.

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Took it off completely & out with the silicone.

Remembered that when I hard wired my dashcam I saw light rust dust spots from deposits of water, so thought id do the passenger side as well. Just as well as when I tested it there was a drip, much slower but still dripping. Passenger side got the same treatment. Closer inspection the roof lining has marks so has def been like that for a while.

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Before I bolted everything back up I connected them on both sides & poured half a watering can into each side of the sunroof, nice & dry.
 
@Russboy Great, thanks you for these. So your issue was the drain plug leaking. I think my issue is the cassette where the plastic meets the aluminium but this is still very helpful. Have to say, not overly impressed with this car so far! Cost a lot and already had some fairly costly issues to deal with. Still have two rear weeping shocks to sort out.
 
asw20gliderboy, I still have the A4 Allroad, so any questions just holler. I've done the repair at least 4 times. From my point of view the only real way to fix this is a new cassette, but that's a huge job. Basically the entire roof lining, plus the sunroof mechanism, then the cassette needs to come out. I'm sorry, but on a 2012 car with 60k mileage, that's never going to happen.

I still plan on keeping the car at least another 2 years and can live with periodic remedial action. Trouble at this time of year (unless you have a heated and well illuminated workshop/garage) is leave well alone until the spring. Every time you access the roof lining and do work, your disturbing the interior materials. The roof handles are a complete pain in the a**e. The passenger side on mine is goosed (slow retract mechanism). I need to get a replacement from Fleabay.

What are you driving these days Russboy... a Mercedes G-Wagon? ;)
 
No, went sensible and brought a brand new Tiguan R-Line Tech, went for the top of the range petrol 230ps.

Got a bit of power but sensible enough to take 2 adults, 2 growing kids and 2 German Shepherds with ease and loads of gadgets thrown in.

Only done 2.5k since I got it in May, but taking the family to Disneyland Paris beginning of Feb, looking forwards to the drive :)
 
Thanks @spartacus68. My car is actually an 2015 A6 Avant 3.0 272bhp Quattro. It’s a great car to drive but to be honest, for the £30k I paid for it 18 months ago I’m not impressed with this particular fault. I’m pursuing action against Audi for it as it’s clearly a design fault. They told me I had to pay them £180 for them to diagnose the problem. I pointed out that I had done that already, could show them what is the problem and all I needed was for them to tell me how much it would cost to fix. They still insisted I would have to pay the £180. I told them to forget it. I’d rather fix it myself! At least I know I’ll do a proper job.

Having stripped down the roof mechanism, the issue is the sealer that has been used between the metal part and the plastic part of the cassette has lost its sealing capability. I’ve seen a thread that suggests using Captain Tolley’s sealant. I’m going to give it a try to see if it works.

I’ve also bought a tool to get the grab handles off. I think they are slightly different to your car and should in theory be easier to remove. Fingers crossed.

I will try and take some pics as I go. Might help others.

my temp fix is is wing tape I use on the glider! Classy!
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This seems to be the location the water is getting through.

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If you’re interested, this is the manufacturer of these panoramic sunroofs.

https://www.webasto-group.com/en/contact/

Although don't try asking them for any parts as they will tell you to ****** off.

When I knackered the motor on my pan roof (own fault, opened it with bike rack on top) I asked if I could buy the drive cog that sits on top of the motor. They said no, all licenses are owned by Audi and they won't sell spare parts. Audi wanted £405 for the whole motor, ebay came to the rescue with a replacement cog, for £5.
 
Although don't try asking them for any parts as they will tell you to ****** off.

When I knackered the motor on my pan roof (own fault, opened it with bike rack on top) I asked if I could buy the drive cog that sits on top of the motor. They said no, all licenses are owned by Audi and they won't sell spare parts. Audi wanted £405 for the whole motor, ebay came to the rescue with a replacement cog, for £5.

I suspect you’re right. I just want to speak to them about the manufacturing failure of their product. I’m probably p***ing into the wind but I like to have tried all avenues.

My local independent has confirmed the only real solution is to replace the cassette which they have done before on a Tiguan. Apparently it’s quite expensive.
 
Update of this if of any help to anyone. Part Numbers

5G9877049C - Sunroof Frame £852.86 + vat (I am guessing you have to swap everything over?)
G060751A2 - Lubricant paste for sunroof £34.17 + vat
Labour to fit quoted at £420 + vat (7 hours I think)

This is from an Audi independent specialist in Wiltshire. No idea what Audi main dealer labour cost would be but I wouldn't pay it out of principle. Also worth noting that the replacement frame is the same as the one fitted in the car, i.e OEM part from Audi. I am not aware of any modification to the part that prevents this sort of issue recurring.

I am pretty sure that replacing the frame as a DIY job is achievable if not a lengthy process and also care needed not to snap anything plastic along the way. Audi UK Customer Care did point out that erWin was also available which can give guidance on repair methods. https://erwin.audi.com/erwin/showHome.do

I hope this helps someone.
 
Good new Russboy regards the Tiguan. Please tell me it doesn't have a panoramic sunglasses roof!

Gliderboy. On principle I wouldn't pay Audi a penny, that said you still need a fix. Try Captain Tolley. I ordered a bottle over summer. Reminds me of white glue as a nipper at school. I'll raise you to Sikaflex 291. This stuff is a marine sealant, I use it when rigging boats, water isn't going anywhere with this stuff. Trouble with a leak, is the water simple moves elsewhere. I need to invest in one of the trim tools you mentioned, as once the roof handles are off its straight forward..

Good luck with the manufacturer of the mechanisms. I'm currently taking VW to court as part if a 90,000 class action on the dieselgate fiasco. I see Australia is away to settle, so ask yourself why the UK part of it is still outstanding, some 5 years after it happened?
 
Lol, Tiguan has a massive panoramic roof! At least it's all under warranty though :)
 
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@spartacus68 sealed unit today with Captain‘s. Seems to be holding. I wanted to remove my front seat so I could lift carpet to aid drying out. I don’t have a spline bit so tried to find one locally to buy. Went into Halfords. They didn’t have what I want unless I spent £50 on a kit which had the correct size included. However, I noticed for £4.99 they did have the tool to get the grab handle off. It’s an offset screwdriver. https://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/tools/hand-tools/laser-offset-screwdriver-set-3pc

However I bought this. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/uk.rs-online.com/mobile/amp/p/screwdrivers/7755609/ Which is the same as Audi Technicians use
 
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You need a decent splined bit set for the seats. Draper 1/2 socket with extension bar is the way to go. Watch you don't cross thread them when reinserting. If it goes tight back off and try again. In addition you shouldn't have to completely remove the seats, there's a wiring module under there, so watch you don't disconnect, just tilt them back. If you want to lift the carpet, you'll need to remove the door rubber and plastic trim at sill.

Thanks for the RS trim tool link - that looks handy, I'll order one.
 
Hi, just wanted to share my experience of this issue with you.

After a heavy couple of days rain, I had a pretty wet drivers footwell. I hadn't noticed any signs of a leak before other than a few rust coloured drip runs on the passenger side footwell wall a month or so ago whilst cleaning the car and didn't think anything more of it. Having read this thread, I took the trim off round the drivers door fuse box, poured water on the sunroof and sure enough drips started appearing.. Having just replaced my front DRC shocks last week, I really couldn't face another big bill so I had a think about the problem and came up with an alternative fix to removing the headlining and getting to the back of the sunroof drain connectors. It's certainly not an orthodox method and I'm sure it won't last forever but it's worked since I did it. I got my inspiration from a TV program I saw years ago where new plastic water pipes were installed in broken ceramic ones underground without digging them up. I came up with a similar concept. I got a foot of 8mm poly tube, the sort that you connect up domestic fish tank pumps with, fitted a cut down speed fit pipe support (so I could bend it into place) to it and bound it up with some ptfe tape.. I then put the other end of the tube down the sunroof drain from the top of the sunroof, fed it all the way in and pressed the end with the support and ptfe tape into the mouth of the drain entrance with some plyers so it was flush. It took a few attempts to get the right amount of ptfe tape to make sure of a really tight fit. I did the same to the other side, closed the sunroof and put the hose running over the car whilst checking for any drips, all the water bypassed the defective drain connector and went down the polytube and out the drain exit in the door frame albeit slower due to the reduced bore size of the poly tube. 3 weeks later, the car is still dry so I'm not complaining! 15 minutes and £5..
 

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I have this issue and I like that idea @Kingturps
I’m just sure how you did it? I.e. where you ran the pipe from and to. I’ve only just got the car. Used all my savings on it so looking for a fix before I can get it properly looked after.
one thing I have noticed is staining in the passenger side between the B Pilar.
 
Hi @S4Spike, open the sunroof, as you look down from above at it, in the corners of the tray that the wind deflector folders into, you will see the drain holes, one on each side. This is where I fed the pipes into. Good luck!
 
Hi @S4Spike, open the sunroof, as you look down from above at it, in the corners of the tray that the wind deflector folders into, you will see the drain holes, one on each side. This is where I fed the pipes into. Good luck!
I’ll be looking at this tomorrow mate. Thanks for the reply. Going to get some decent sealer while I’m out
 
So the car has recently been into a VAG garage and they replaced the drivers side drain pip as it was split at the top where it connects to the drain hole. On the drivers side the wind deflector 'seal' didn't seem to go all the way round (may have shrunk?) Anyway i made up the gap with some sugru (used this before on a previous cars antenna base seal). been snowing and raining the past few days and low and behold water still coming in down the A pillar. i don't think its as bad as it was (i've started putting blue roll up and around the bonnet release handle and under the floor mat. i noticed the other day the carpet was wet in that area but not to the extent it has been. today said blue roll was soaked but minimal on the floor.

I'm now at a loss. the car was away for a whole week so had to make alternate arrangements for a replacement car.

Not sure where to check now and certainly don't want to go down the route of 'it might be this or that so we will replace it' sketch.

I think i need to get the trim out the way to see if i can find this issue. paid alot for the car and so far its cost me a bit.....should've stuck with my Vauxhall lol
 
S4-spike, unfortunately this isn't the time of year to start investigating these faults unless you have a heated and well lit workshop. Stripping the headlining out isn't too difficult with the RS tool for releasing the grab handles. Almost certain it will be the sunroof cassette. It's well documented, but I like the 8mm flexible tube idea if the drains are leaking. Sikaflex 291 is a marine sealant if you're tackling the cassette inside and out. Again not the temperatures for it just now.

As a temporary measure, strip out the rubber floor mat and the upholstery floor mat. Water into the foam insulation is just going to cause issues, condensation, electrics, etc. Get some plastic sheeting and tape off where it drains from the A-pillar under the bonnet release handle and use kitchen roll or a towel underneath. At least you can mop up water rather than just deal with sodden carpet until you fix it.
 
S4-spike, unfortunately this isn't the time of year to start investigating these faults unless you have a heated and well lit workshop. Stripping the headlining out isn't too difficult with the RS tool for releasing the grab handles. Almost certain it will be the sunroof cassette. It's well documented, but I like the 8mm flexible tube idea if the drains are leaking. Sikaflex 291 is a marine sealant if you're tackling the cassette inside and out. Again not the temperatures for it just now.

As a temporary measure, strip out the rubber floor mat and the upholstery floor mat. Water into the foam insulation is just going to cause issues, condensation, electrics, etc. Get some plastic sheeting and tape off where it drains from the A-pillar under the bonnet release handle and use kitchen roll or a towel underneath. At least you can mop up water rather than just deal with sodden carpet until you fix it.

Been trying to get pics of the cassette both inside and out just so I know what I’m looking for. I’ve already got plastic sheets inside with blue roll underneath and I’ve taped up under the release handle and bought a wet hoover too. No access to a well lit garage so I’ve got a car cover for the time being.
 
Hey all,

I checked and a lot of people who posted on this thread were last active today so I wanted to bump this thread. I'm having the same problem on my 2013 Audi allroad. I'm going to link my post to Audizine so I don't have to repeat myself. The thread has photos and videos of where my leak is coming from. I poked a hole in my water bottle cap, closed the sunroof, and sprayed it in between the seal of the sunroof glass and the body/roof of the car and I couldn't see it dripping at all. I was wondering if anyone can help me isolate the leak. I'm only back from college for today and tomorrow so I don't have a lot of time to isolate the problem before I drive back to college.

Thanks all

 
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I checked and a lot of people who posted on this thread were last active today so I wanted to bump this thread. I'm having the same problem on my 2013 Audi allroad. I'm going to link my post to Audizine.

This issue is well documented. The sunroof is made by Webasto and is used in similar VAG models, such as Skoda, SEAT, etc, so you will find similar threads.

Now it could be the sunroof drains are blocked or are dripping at the exit drain, but in nine times out of ten it's the actual sunroof cassette. I've repaired mine at least half a dozen times, but the repair is temporary. Because the sunroof cassette uses a mix of plastic and metal parts - Webasto used a mastic sealant to sandwich the whole thing together, it's fundamentally a manufacturing design flaw. If they had used a single plastic tray insert such as Volvo for example, we wouldn't have this issue.

The sunroof rubber seal on the glass and bodywork is not designed to be completely watertight. The excess water that seeps through is meant to collect and exit on one of the four drain channels front and rear, however what happens is water pools and eventually finds a way through the mastic area that sandwiches the composite roof.

If you think about it - the car experiences vibration, and extremes of hot and cold every day, basically the ingredients to create a failed bond. The only correct fix is to replace the entire cassette, and because Webasto probably never changed the design, then in another 3-4 years I'll guarantee that will fail too.

What you're seeing is the water dripping from a failed section on the cassette where the seal has opened, onto the roof lining, then eventually down the A pillar plastic trim where it will drip onto the carpet and soak the sound-deadening material underneath.

As a short-term solution, pull the rubber floor mat (assuming you have one fitted) and get paper towelling or a wet vacuum to take up any moisture. Once it's try, get plastic sheeting down until you can investigate properly.

I have been chasing the same fault and have been for the last 3 years. I'm not prepared to pay Audi the best part of £2.5k to replace.

Fixes I have tried included glass-fibre matting, well that didn't work, so I moved onto marine sealants with limited success of anywhere from 4-6 months with no leaks. If you are using a sealant, use tin-foil on top - to separate from the headliner otherwise if you need to investigate again you will be a in world of misery trying to pull apart. Sikaflex make most of the commercial sealants for automotive and marine use including 291i but I'm going to try 591 next or 3M 5200 Marine Sealant.

As we approach winter, it's important to get it fixed, as any trapped moisture will freeze and you'll notice water and condensation on the inside of the windscreen.

Work in a clean well-let environment, or on a decent day when you know the weather will be dry. This is not a job at the end of the day in fading light. The interior grab handle is the worst part, but with the right tool is straight-forward. The interior if light coloured will mark very easily, hence wear nitrile gloves and change them often. You can ease the rubber door rubbers over the roof lining with a bit of persuasion.
 
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