Ok. So terrible pic and edit but if you follow what I wrote up top you it should make sense.
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Edgar's A4 B7 2.0TFSI BT Build
- Thread starter i3oricua
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- audi b7 bt big turbo efr
Ok. So terrible pic and edit but if you follow what I wrote up top you it should make sense.
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You may have a larger vacuum than normal drawing oil into the intake then being drawn into the combustion cycle.
There’s definitely oil residue in the intake. I’m not sure which portion you’re referring to as the return point but overall the inside of the intake is oily. Oily enough that I thought my turbo was faulty but it’s clear it was the catch can system. Just like you’re doing I couldn’t figure out if routed it wrong but I was convinced it was right. I’m definitely open to hearing if it was possibly ran wrong.
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My brain's not 100% this evening Edgar so give me a moment to engage brain functions properly..lol.
You have the vc and primary separator hoses linked to one input , and then one output to the cold air intake.
You have a larger Turbo fitted so there will be a greater level of induction so a likely chance the increased vacuum is drawing in more oil saturated vapour than you would normally expect, as the catch tank can only retain so much .
The normal outflow from the primary separator will be fine but if you are pulling more in then it has to go somewhere.
With two sources going into one tank port it maybe too much , which is why I went with dual inputs.
You have the vc and primary separator hoses linked to one input , and then one output to the cold air intake.
You have a larger Turbo fitted so there will be a greater level of induction so a likely chance the increased vacuum is drawing in more oil saturated vapour than you would normally expect, as the catch tank can only retain so much .
The normal outflow from the primary separator will be fine but if you are pulling more in then it has to go somewhere.
With two sources going into one tank port it maybe too much , which is why I went with dual inputs.
Interesting. I’ll have to see how this new can performs and if it doesn’t go well then I may need to add a second one or vent to atmosphere. I thought about doing that anyways and maybe I should have but I’ll have to see how it acts with the new one first now.
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I think I would have tried leaving the old system fitted but with the tank return hose disconnected from the intake to see what occurs, if the pcv is venting to atmosphere and not back into the intake in theory the smoking should stop , if it does it would point to the pcv setup not functioning properly .
As it stopped smoking with the oem setup refitted that does point the finger at the setup you were using, just a matter of which part .
As it stopped smoking with the oem setup refitted that does point the finger at the setup you were using, just a matter of which part .
I def agree with you on all parts there. Just got tired of the smoking and started trying to get to the root of things so I didn’t pull the turbo off and send it away or buy a new one inadvertently.
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Part of the problem is that with increased performance , and in your build a substantial increase in performance, normal setups don't work and one has to find a work around which in the b7 engine bay is allways going to be a challenge from a space point of view , also heat .
I did briefly experiment with a tandem tank setup , which effectively doubled the effectiveness of the catch tank setup.
What the first tank missed or could not handle the second intercepted, and it does work very well but its the space for fitting the system or lack of it..
I did briefly experiment with a tandem tank setup , which effectively doubled the effectiveness of the catch tank setup.
What the first tank missed or could not handle the second intercepted, and it does work very well but its the space for fitting the system or lack of it..
It would be interesting to see how much oil you have laying in your IC Edgar, I'd be very surprised if there wasn't a fair bit in it.
There was a bit in there. When I slowed my brain down a bit that’s part of what prompted me to look at the PCV/catch can system.
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I haven’t checked since I put everything back (the engine). I would say that I’ve put about 170 miles on the engine now and haven’t checked.
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Maybe worth just pulling off the bottom hose on each end of the IC to see , the only down side of this is, compared to the oem IC's yours is a lot bigger so it will take more oil residue to become obvious if that makes sense.
half a cup in one oem IC would be very noticible but in a full width big IC it wont really show as much.
half a cup in one oem IC would be very noticible but in a full width big IC it wont really show as much.
It is very possible Edgar that your VC vent to the catch tank is drawing out more oil saturated vapour than would be ideal.
I doubt its an issue with VC itself , but very possible one or several issues to do with hose connections and the system layout, a process of illimination really.
I doubt its an issue with VC itself , but very possible one or several issues to do with hose connections and the system layout, a process of illimination really.
I agree as well that it’s necessarily the valve cover. I’m hoping the new can will fix it. Fingers crossed.
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Yep, will keep them crossed for you too.
I have finally developed a setup that really works well , taken me a long time to get it spot on but worth it.
Maybe worth a look Edgar when I have it ready to sell, just giving it a good old few months and miles road testing and evaluation .
I have finally developed a setup that really works well , taken me a long time to get it spot on but worth it.
Maybe worth a look Edgar when I have it ready to sell, just giving it a good old few months and miles road testing and evaluation .
Found the source of my high idle. I had a spare one luckily so all is good in the world....for now.
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Two things complete this week:
Installed my new turbo blanket. Had a cheap eBay one on before and it fell apart when I took it off so I got a Thermal Zero Lava blanket.
Inquired and paid for a Motoza tune. Sounds like I’ll be working with Dave the owner. I’ll have to throw the RS4 injectors back in but I’ll wait until the cable arrives and then install them. I might also have to upgrade to a 155 bar PRV. I currently have a 145 bar. I’ll wait on that so I don’t buy anything unnecessary...
I also ordered an electronic boost controller. So I guess that’s three things...
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Installed my new turbo blanket. Had a cheap eBay one on before and it fell apart when I took it off so I got a Thermal Zero Lava blanket.
Inquired and paid for a Motoza tune. Sounds like I’ll be working with Dave the owner. I’ll have to throw the RS4 injectors back in but I’ll wait until the cable arrives and then install them. I might also have to upgrade to a 155 bar PRV. I currently have a 145 bar. I’ll wait on that so I don’t buy anything unnecessary...
I also ordered an electronic boost controller. So I guess that’s three things...
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Some goodies arrived today. Don’t know when I’ll get a chance to install and log since I have a full weekend and some vacation next weekend. I have a reoccurring p0507 code too which I’m sure is related to the PCV so I don’t want to log and send the files until I get that figured out and I have to reinstall my RS4 injectors too. Quite a few things planned, should be able to get them done in a day but I have to find that day.
Boost controller & Motoza cable
Tapatalk won’t let me do photos right now....
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Boost controller & Motoza cable
Tapatalk won’t let me do photos right now....
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I expect you have already been through all the possible causes Edgar.
Is there anything on the list below that has occurred before, other than the PCV air leak you had.
Dirty throttle body
Electric throttle control actuator misadjusted or damaged
Faulty Electric throttle control actuator
Intake air leak
Poor electrical connection to the Intake Air Control (IAC) valve
When is the code P0507 is detected the idle speed is less than the target idle speed by 200 rpm or more.
you may suffer,
Engine Light ON
Engine hard to start
Rough or erratic idle speed
Is there anything on the list below that has occurred before, other than the PCV air leak you had.
Dirty throttle body
Electric throttle control actuator misadjusted or damaged
Faulty Electric throttle control actuator
Intake air leak
Poor electrical connection to the Intake Air Control (IAC) valve
When is the code P0507 is detected the idle speed is less than the target idle speed by 200 rpm or more.
you may suffer,
Engine Light ON
Engine hard to start
Rough or erratic idle speed
Hi Rob,
I have some of those symptoms, sometimes hard to start, although not frequently, and the idle is a little high still. I think some sort of air leak at the intake and maybe even the wrong version of the PCV valve since there is an updated version. I don’t think the two versions are supposed to mix, I think the newer goes with the black valve cover and I think I have the old version installed. My Mishimoto can should be here in a few days so I’m not gonna spend the money on a new PCV right now.
Gonna take the opportunity to stick the photos that were meant for the previous post right in here.
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Installed the RS4 injectors and 155 PRV upon the request of Motoza. Also installed the 3 port Mishimoto can. Hopefully smoke stays gone since the stock PCV worked but caused some idling issues. Fingers crossed everything seems good right now.
Quick ECU read and off to Motoza. Wait on the turn around. Have to do an oil change and get the boost controller installed.
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Quick ECU read and off to Motoza. Wait on the turn around. Have to do an oil change and get the boost controller installed.
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Tried to do some logging today to send to Motoza and failed miserably. All the logs have no data. I got a message while connecting to the ECU that said something like "high speed data logging for this ECU is disabled, will log in low speed mode". Not word for word what it said but something like that. Anyways, I also was recording, or so I thought, and not only did I not get most of my pulls (I managed to get one) but the camera died on me too. Fail...Video below of at least the one pull I managed to capture.
Making progress Edgar.
One thing though, is it my imagination or is your steering wheel off centre when in a straight line, looks to be off to the left a fair bit.
One thing though, is it my imagination or is your steering wheel off centre when in a straight line, looks to be off to the left a fair bit.
Oh yea. It’s definitely off center. Need an alignment but I have to adjust a bolt on my upper control arm first.
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Flashed the first file from Motoza yesterday. Already a noticeable difference in drivability and power. Recorded some footage from the logging on my GoPro but haven’t had a chance to review it so I don’t know if it’s any good since it was done at night. Sent the log back and expect to hear something next week. I know that Dave is concentrating on getting the fueling right at the moment and then we’ll crank up the boost some. Should be fun.
And a snippet of the leg for those that like to look at data.
View attachment 192981
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And a snippet of the leg for those that like to look at data.
View attachment 192981
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Last edited:
Uploaded a video of the logging. It's interesting watching it back because when you're driving the RPMs climb so quick and it looks so much slower on camera.
I like the way you use the whole rpm band, I doubt my old bus sees the red area that often...lol
It’s because of the valve train. If I didn’t have it built I wouldn’t go past 7K. My redline is set to 8K right now but I’m not mentally ready to take it there. My tuner asked if I wanted to make it 8500 but I said no. Plus the tach only goes up to 8.
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It’s not working out. Getting smoke at idle again. I’m looking into if I can use my plumb into my vacuum pump to pull vacuum at idle but I don’t know if I’ll need a check valve too. I’m being stubborn. I don’t want to get rid of my pretty valve cover.
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Its the valve cover but really it’s the line that goes to my intake. The turbo is not pulling vacuum at idle. Everything is great when I’m driving but it’s the idling that’s getting me.
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Just finished catching up! You’ve done a great job so far with it!
Juat a quick question on your breather system, have you got any sort of filter in the lines and have you got a filter to atmosphere? If you’re running a closed vent system it seems to me all that’s happening is it’s a pressure system, so not only is it catching the oil but it’s atomising it and sending it back into the engine under pressure. Possibly why it’s smoking at idle.
Just a though that’s all as I couldn’t see an external filter on the can itself
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Juat a quick question on your breather system, have you got any sort of filter in the lines and have you got a filter to atmosphere? If you’re running a closed vent system it seems to me all that’s happening is it’s a pressure system, so not only is it catching the oil but it’s atomising it and sending it back into the engine under pressure. Possibly why it’s smoking at idle.
Just a though that’s all as I couldn’t see an external filter on the can itself
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There will be a solution .
I’m looking forward to what we this is.
It is an internal system or closed loop system. If I was to tap into the intake manifold or vacuum pump I could get the vacuum I need but then I think I would start introducing that oil and junk that the catch can is supposed to eliminate. The can should be catching most of that in the baffles it has in it but that’s the only filters in the whole system. The catch can itself plays that role.
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What’s the third port connected too on the can then? Surely you would be better off venting to atmosphere through a small filter and that would then reduce the pressure in the system and that in turn would stop any pressurised oil going into the inlet manifold.
I’m not sure if the engine has a vacuum pump or not but if it does I don’t know if that’s the best place for it to go too cause I’m sure if it does have one all it would do is expel the vacuumed air/oil mix back into the inlet manifold. Then creating smoke on its own merit.... this is only my opinion and not based on any hard evidence as such, but I had an old 106 GTI and I put a catch can on and had to put a filter on it cause it kept popping the dipstick put as it pressurised the crank case too much. Non turbo but I guess similar principle as the turbo doesn’t put any pressure in the crankcase directly
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I’m not sure if the engine has a vacuum pump or not but if it does I don’t know if that’s the best place for it to go too cause I’m sure if it does have one all it would do is expel the vacuumed air/oil mix back into the inlet manifold. Then creating smoke on its own merit.... this is only my opinion and not based on any hard evidence as such, but I had an old 106 GTI and I put a catch can on and had to put a filter on it cause it kept popping the dipstick put as it pressurised the crank case too much. Non turbo but I guess similar principle as the turbo doesn’t put any pressure in the crankcase directly
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I appreciate any input. Like I said, I’d like to keep my current valve cover if possible. The pic below shows the can, I don’t have any pics of it as it sits in the car currently. The two outside side ports are out ports and run to the oil separator/oil filter housing and the intake/cold air pipe at the turbo, respectively. The middle “in” port runs to the valve cover.
I’ve read up and people venting to atmosphere seem to still have this problem.
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Hmm Ok well that in theory replicates the factory I guess, my only other thoughts are what size is all the pipe work compared to the factory ?
It could be that your pipe work is restricting air flow causing the pressure build up. Also how often to you check and empty the can itself? It could be that there’s quite a bit of oil in there and so it can’t ‘catch’ any more so it just spits it back out?
Generally the only way an engine smokes is if there is oil getting into the combustion chamber, you’ve eliminated rings and valve stem oil seals by fitting your factory cover set up, and that’s pin pointed your custom set up. I think it’s worth trying to compare every little detail that the factory set up has compared to custom and seeing what the difference is. Is there a restriction anywhere that’s causing a higher pressure build up?
Maybe the custom cover has a valve in it that’s blocked or partially blocked? Or is there something from the factory set up that you can in cooperate to the custom set up that will stop or reduce the oil flow?
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It could be that your pipe work is restricting air flow causing the pressure build up. Also how often to you check and empty the can itself? It could be that there’s quite a bit of oil in there and so it can’t ‘catch’ any more so it just spits it back out?
Generally the only way an engine smokes is if there is oil getting into the combustion chamber, you’ve eliminated rings and valve stem oil seals by fitting your factory cover set up, and that’s pin pointed your custom set up. I think it’s worth trying to compare every little detail that the factory set up has compared to custom and seeing what the difference is. Is there a restriction anywhere that’s causing a higher pressure build up?
Maybe the custom cover has a valve in it that’s blocked or partially blocked? Or is there something from the factory set up that you can in cooperate to the custom set up that will stop or reduce the oil flow?
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