Rs3 8v.2 tuning advice

O

Ojawed

Registered User
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
34
Reaction score
3
Points
8
Location
West mids
Hi guys picked up a facelift rs3 a few weeks ago. I love the car and just want to make it a bit faster.

I've read into the tuning options..just need some advice.

I want to retain the oem downpipes and secondary cats. I am tempted to just get:
Remap
Larger fmic
Forge turbo inlet pipe
Forge inlet hard pipe

If I dont install downpipes would I notice the benefits of the additional forge pipes? Or would it be best to just do a stage 1 map and leave it at that?

Regards
 
I'm sure someone else will chime in with some more knowledge but I didn't think the fl rs3 had the secondary cat if you spec'd the sports exhaust? Might be different in certain countries but in Aus we definitely did not have them since every rs3 brought in had the sports exhaust as standard!

In my experience having an apr intake with the turbo inlet pipe on a mk7r I didn't really see any improvement, just more sound from it soothing air. Not saying there wouldn't be a benefit but not something you would notice, I can imagine just the pipes would be even less. I'm recently stage 2 on my pfl rs3 and see no need to change the intake or inlet pipes. Frankly if I could go back I wouldn't have bought it for the 7r either. If your pockets are deep enough it's a great way to dress you engine bay up but that's about it imo.

If I was you I'd just do the stage 1 by a reputable tuner (apr, revo, unitronic, mrc) with the fmic.
 
Welcome!
Interesting question. I'm pondering all of this as looking to have some work done to mine once warranty up and its got a few more miles under its belt.
My take on it is after a remap (especially if you are wanting to keep downpipe so really not then pushing much beyond stage 1) and an intercooler the rest gets you into quickly diminishing returns. By all accounts even an intercooler change will not net much more power and performance from a single dyno run, but will bring consistancy and stop timing and power being pulled due to rising intake temps in hotter weather or repeated runs with magnified benefits if you swap out the turbo for a hybrid at some point. There are a few guys on here who have had the intercooler swapped out who may chime in, but in theory a bigger intercooler will also increase lag, probably not noticibly for most people though.
The Forge inlet and turbo pipes you mention do give benefits, but if you're not going to run E85 or change turbo they will be small. The benefits they give will get bigger if you swap out the turbo and thus have higher intake air flow rates as they are less restrictive (which with more air flow from larger turbos becomes more important). I would highly doubt in daily driving they would give you tangible 'butt dyno' improvements or cut much off 1/4mile times. If you are going hybrid/big turbo, considering running E85, chasing evry last dyno number and not fussed on price to performance ratio then go for it; likewise if you see yourself going for a turbo swap later and get a job discount at time of remap go for it. Although factory air intake is supposed to be pretty solid I'd look at changing it as well if you are doing the forge inlet and turbo pipes just to get rid of all intake potential bottle necks (although again it prob won't make a huge difference); if I was doing this I'd also look at high flow sports cat down pipes to stand a chance of getting through the MOT emmisions test in the UK.
My 18 plate FL with sports exhaust doesn't have 2nd Cats.
TLDR; unless money no object get the remap and IC and see how you like the performance. The other mods prob won't make a huge difference for the amount they cost.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ojawed
@JWAM thanks for the detailed reply.

What you've said makes sense. Most benefit/gains will come from a remap.

On my previous 2 cars (f80 m3 and GTR) I fitted downpipes after running with just a remap and the gains in performance/ but dyno was marginal. Other than being louder I didn't really gain much.

I'm leaning more towards just getting a remap and then deciding on the additional hardware later on!
 
Somewhat dependent on conditions. My best Stage 1 times were without supporting mods, but in low density altitude. Even with an intercooler and intake they didn't improve. But looking at the logs, those mods would have made a difference in the summer when the turbo would have been working harder and IATs increased, even if not strictly necessary. It felt less laggy/more responsive with the intake, but adding the intercooler balanced that out.

In my case the gains to Stage 2 have been quite significant, but so is the proportional cost. As a guide to a 1/4 mile 'trap' speed, which is indicative of power, I went +6mph at Stg1 only (same with IE intake, Forge inlet, Forge IE). Going to Stg2 another +3mph. When I run E85 it's +6mph on top again (!!)

From what I've seen from mine and others logs, the Forge pipe + inlet is worth about 50% the gain of a full intake like Integrated Engineering or Unitronic, even at stage1. When I say "gains" I mean reduction in wastegate duty not performance. Basically, at stage 1 it will be totally adequate but at stage 2 there are gains to be had especially with E85. As has been said a bigger turbo even more so.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Beebee-one
From what I've heard, even at stage 1 an intercooler is probably a good idea, especially when it's hotter outside.

If/when I go for stage 1, I'll probably go for just a Wagner EVO 1 intercooler (no modding the crashbar etc.) and maybe some form of inlet mods (even if not a full inlet).
 
Ojawed said:
Hi guys picked up a facelift rs3 a few weeks ago. I love the car and just want to make it a bit faster.

I've read into the tuning options..just need some advice.

I want to retain the oem downpipes and secondary cats. I am tempted to just get:
Remap
Larger fmic
Forge turbo inlet pipe
Forge inlet hard pipe

If I dont install downpipes would I notice the benefits of the additional forge pipes? Or would it be best to just do a stage 1 map and leave it at that?

Regards
Click to expand...

At stage 1 level of tune you will not see the full benefits ( just some small benefits over stock) of adding the Forge turbo inlet and hard pipe. At stage 2 tune these parts add good power and work well with a downpipe....you can then even add higher octane fuel for even more power.
As for the intercooler upgrade....... this is all about keeping IAT's in check so that the ECU is kept happy and does not decide to reign in power when it registers too high intake temps. Below is an example of a back to back run comparison of several dyno pulls with the stock ECU and the Forge FMINT4 fitted to my car at stage 1 level of tune. By the third hard dyno pull you can clearly see the stabilising effect of the Forge IC and the sharp rise in IAT's with the stock product. Apologies that the scale is missing from the chart, I have a better copy somewhere but couldn't find it this evening.
In conclusion, yes you can run a stage 1 tune without an IC upgrade which will be ok for a few quick squirts.....but if you drive the car hard then it's highly likely you will experience high IAT's at some point.
In addition to the IC upgrade, my car now runs the Forge larger turbo elbow inlet (which I believe is the only product currently available for RHD cars), the Forge larger air intake pipe with Scorpion de-catted downpipe and stock airbox with BMC panel filter. It also has switchable mapping to run higher octane fuel so I guess it could be called a stage 2+

IMG 3499
 
Thanks for the detailed replied guys.
What I've concluded is that its either best to go for a full stage 2 or just get a map with no additional hardware.

I think il just get a map and then later go for a full stage 2...
I dont suppose theres anyone around the north west with decatted downpipes ?
 
Ojawed said:
Hi guys picked up a facelift rs3 a few weeks ago. I love the car and just want to make it a bit faster.

I've read into the tuning options..just need some advice.

I want to retain the oem downpipes and secondary cats. I am tempted to just get:
Remap
Larger fmic
Forge turbo inlet pipe
Forge inlet hard pipe

If I dont install downpipes would I notice the benefits of the additional forge pipes? Or would it be best to just do a stage 1 map and leave it at that?

Regards
Click to expand...
Pretty sure an intercooler and map will give you 500bhp. That's surely enough for anyone.

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ojawed
RS03_SEN said:
Pretty sure an intercooler and map will give you 500bhp. That's surely enough for anyone.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought until I went stage 2 lol. And then I thought 550hp was enough, until I run a month on E85...

I will agree it should be enough though!

I would go stage 1 and then fit an intercooler by the time spring comes round. Not sure who else offers it but Uni was only $50 extra to license Stage 2 so I just bought that to future-proof it, and flashed the stage 2 the day after the downpipe went on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RS03_SEN
Ojawed said:
Thanks for the detailed replied guys.
What I've concluded is that its either best to go for a full stage 2 or just get a map with no additional hardware.

I think il just get a map and then later go for a full stage 2...
I dont suppose theres anyone around the north west with decatted downpipes ?
Click to expand...



+1 for a dp, turned a crazy sound even crazier
 
Ross_T_Boss said:
That's what I thought until I went stage 2 lol. And then I thought 550hp was enough, until I run a month on E85...

I will agree it should be enough though!

I would go stage 1 and then fit an intercooler by the time spring comes round. Not sure who else offers it but Uni was only $50 extra to license Stage 2 so I just bought that to future-proof it, and flashed the stage 2 the day after the downpipe went on.
Click to expand...

Is uni unicorn tuning?
I was tempted to go without fmic but the graph that @Beebee-one posted shows the difference in temperatures after just a few pulls!

I just need to find a comparison of a fmic+map vs a stage 2
 
Ojawed said:
Is uni unicorn tuning?
I was tempted to go without fmic but the graph that @Beebee-one posted shows the difference in temperatures after just a few pulls!

I just need to find a comparison of a fmic+map vs a stage 2
Click to expand...

I think Ross means Unitronic......

Here's some comparison dyno charts from the various stages and parts that were added to my FL car. Hope you find them useful.

First chart is MRC stage 1 with FMIC and Forge larger air intake pipe.
IMG 3500

Second chart is MRC stage 2 with FMIC, Forge larger air intake pipe, Forge turbo elbow and decat downpipe on 99RON fuel and the higher power result is with high octane additive mixed in (not E85 though).
IMG 0440 Copy


Third chart is all the above stage 2 mods plus some experimental exhaust mods and different high octane fuel mixes between 99RON and higher octane (again, not E85)
Note: 552.4hp equates to 560ps. Torque curve is a nice flat 550lbs/ft too.
IMG 0491
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ojawed
@Beebee-one thanks for the graphs. Very useful and helpful.
By adding downpipes you gained an extra 30bhp....which is quite significant.

Makes me think I should just go the whole hog.

Do you have stock secondary cats?
 
Ojawed said:
@Beebee-one thanks for the graphs. Very useful and helpful.
By adding downpipes you gained an extra 30bhp....which is quite significant.

Makes me think I should just go the whole hog.

Do you have stock secondary cats?
Click to expand...

No secondary decats on my car.

Milltek downpipes and decat....
IMG 0437
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ojawed
As per Beebee-one - I mean Unitronic. Only a few of us here in the UK using them.

If you are tempted to go Stg2 anyway and you're going to have to stomach the tuning cost twice when you do, it does make sense to just do it all in one. I had the benefit of 'flash at home' so I could upgrade software as required, otherwise that's what I would have done.

Those temp rises posted tie in with the data I had, in 6C I was seeing high 30s IAT by the end of just on one pull which is still fine (no timing pulled till about 40C) but took time to come down. Same temp, next day with Forge IC, hitting low 20s on each pull and quick recovery.

Also those power figures tie in with the drop in my 100-200 times, about 540-550hp on Stage2 is my estimate for my car if you compare to Stg1 (490-500) vs stock (about 420). I'd say Stg1 made the car a bit of an animal but still feeling OEM; Stg2 brought out the wild side. I went to PS4S and did the dogbone inserts etc at stage 2 as it felt like it needed it, at stg1 it was all still composed. I have no regrets at spending the extra, the extra noise and sense of occasion took the car a clear cut above Stg1 for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: banny650 and D0C
RS03_SEN said:
Any videos of your car online at all? 550 odd bhp must be mental.

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Here's a vid from several runs I did at Santa Pod earlier this year. Time and trap speed is ok considering the car was running half tank of pump fuel, street tyres and no crazy stripping that you often see for 1/4 mile runs. My car is also full spec with sunroof, roof rails etc which adds plenty of extra kilo's. I have some other tweaks being done in a couple of weeks and will most likely give it a run on the higher octane fuel before the track closes for the season.
 
Beebee-one said:
Here's a vid from several runs I did at Santa Pod earlier this year. Time and trap speed is ok considering the car was running half tank of pump fuel, street tyres and no crazy stripping that you often see for 1/4 mile runs. My car is also full spec with sunroof, roof rails etc which adds plenty of extra kilo's. I have some other tweaks being done in a couple of weeks and will most likely give it a run on the higher octane fuel before the track closes for the season.
Click to expand...
I think all cars should run as you'd drive them in every day life. Normal tyres, child seat in the back, normal fuel etc. Your username isn't linked to your post code is it? You're local if it is!

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk
 
RS03_SEN said:
I think all cars should run as you'd drive them in every day life. Normal tyres, child seat in the back, normal fuel etc. Your username isn't linked to your post code is it? You're local if it is!

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
No it's not.
 
Last edited:
Ross_T_Boss said:
As per Beebee-one - I mean Unitronic. Only a few of us here in the UK using them.

If you are tempted to go Stg2 anyway and you're going to have to stomach the tuning cost twice when you do, it does make sense to just do it all in one. I had the benefit of 'flash at home' so I could upgrade software as required, otherwise that's what I would have done.

Those temp rises posted tie in with the data I had, in 6C I was seeing high 30s IAT by the end of just on one pull which is still fine (no timing pulled till about 40C) but took time to come down. Same temp, next day with Forge IC, hitting low 20s on each pull and quick recovery.

Also those power figures tie in with the drop in my 100-200 times, about 540-550hp on Stage2 is my estimate for my car if you compare to Stg1 (490-500) vs stock (about 420). I'd say Stg1 made the car a bit of an animal but still feeling OEM; Stg2 brought out the wild side. I went to PS4S and did the dogbone inserts etc at stage 2 as it felt like it needed it, at stg1 it was all still composed. I have no regrets at spending the extra, the extra noise and sense of occasion took the car a clear cut above Stg1 for me.
Click to expand...

That's basically convinced me that I need a fmic alongside a map!

What sort of times are you getting on draggy for 100-200?
 
Hal Adams said:
Where are you getting your E85 fuel from - are you in UK ?
Click to expand...

Yes, in the UK (Wiltshire).

Two options for E85; trackstuff sell Renegade E85 and it works out about £3.10/l. Blend it down to E65 with 95RON and it works out at £2.50/l and will be fine on an E60-85 map.

Other option is a little less legit, but I source my own 100% Ethanol at about £1.80/l and blend it with 95 and a bit of methanol, about £1.30/l. It's still more expensive as MPG drops about 25% but I have the ability to switch back/forth as required.
 
Ah, OK. I asked as I am in France where E85 is pretty well everywhere. I knew it was not readily available in the UK, but just wondered if anything had changed and it is maybe more widely available now.

It seems crazy that you have to go to so much trouble when just a short distance over the channel it is not only in abundance, but cheap (0.7€/l at my local).
 
Ross_T_Boss said:
Yes, in the UK (Wiltshire).

Two options for E85; trackstuff sell Renegade E85 and it works out about £3.10/l. Blend it down to E65 with 95RON and it works out at £2.50/l and will be fine on an E60-85 map.

Other option is a little less legit, but I source my own 100% Ethanol at about £1.80/l and blend it with 95 and a bit of methanol, about £1.30/l. It's still more expensive as MPG drops about 25% but I have the ability to switch back/forth as required.
Click to expand...

Are you using any Ethanol content testers when you create the mix or any Ethanol sensors/gauges inside the car?
 
Hal Adams said:
It seems crazy that you have to go to so much trouble when just a short distance over the channel it is not only in abundance, but cheap (0.7€/l at my local).
Click to expand...

Yep, if I lived in Folkestone I'd be tempted to take a trip on the Chunnel to Calais to fuel up every week!

Beebee-one said:
Are you using any Ethanol content testers when you create the mix or any Ethanol sensors/gauges inside the car?
Click to expand...

I have tested E-content of T99 and Vpower (5% and 4.5%) and tested various blends, yes. I just use a 100ml measuring cylinder, put say 50ml of fuel in and another 50ml of water, let it settle, measure the remaining fuel and % loss = Ethanol content. I don't have a measure in the car bet get a pretty good idea from fuel trim on idle when it's run through.

Blending it easy to be pin-point accurate with what goes in the tank, the issue is knowing what's in there. I have found VCDS is quite accurate, if it says 10l in the tank (usually with 30mile range) before I switch over and I add 30l Ethanol that will be about E75, a few mile blast to agitate the tank and job done. I play safe but generally add E65, the map is rated for E60+.
 
Ojawed said:
Hi guys picked up a facelift rs3 a few weeks ago. I love the car and just want to make it a bit faster.

I've read into the tuning options..just need some advice.

I want to retain the oem downpipes and secondary cats. I am tempted to just get:
Remap
Larger fmic
Forge turbo inlet pipe
Forge inlet hard pipe

If I dont install downpipes would I notice the benefits of the additional forge pipes? Or would it be best to just do a stage 1 map and leave it at that?

Regards
Click to expand...
 
Ojawed said:
Hi guys picked up a facelift rs3 a few weeks ago. I love the car and just want to make it a bit faster.

I've read into the tuning options..just need some advice.

I want to retain the oem downpipes and secondary cats. I am tempted to just get:
Remap
Larger fmic
Forge turbo inlet pipe
Forge inlet hard pipe

If I dont install downpipes would I notice the benefits of the additional forge pipes? Or would it be best to just do a stage 1 map and leave it at that?

Regards
Click to expand...
I had a stage 1 remap on my 2018 Rs3 with inlet pipe and hard pipe with great results. On my 1st dyno run my car run 497 ps and 697nm
3EE8A1B9 F14C 4526 BE41 8FF3E0790BA2
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ojawed, D0C and FBF01
audi upgrades
RS3 FUN said:
I had a stage 1 remap on my 2018 Rs3 with inlet pipe and hard pipe with great results. On my 1st dyno run my car run 497 ps and 697nm View attachment 191162
Click to expand...
I’ve got mine booked in to MRC for the same spec, ecu and tcu stage 1 with the bigger forge inlet pipe and intake pipe, can’t wait to feel the brutalness lol what are your thoughts? Worth every penny?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

T
Facelift RS3 8v stage 2 requirements
Replies
23
Views
11K
Tusken
T
R
TMC Motorsport RS3 8V Tuning Box
Replies
0
Views
2K
rdj
R
Spencer589
  • Ask a Question
Facelift RS3 stage 2 intake advice
Replies
1
Views
2K
Sequence
Sequence
TTE Si
Latest mod to my rs3 8v.2
Replies
25
Views
9K
TTE Si
TTE Si
ABYSS
8V RS3 367PS Tuning from DTUK and DTE
Replies
118
Views
22K
S3_Sanni
S3_Sanni
Top
Back