- Joined
- May 28, 2004
- Messages
- 10,217
- Reaction score
- 2,385
- Points
- 113
- Location
- nr Glos
- Website
- www.badger5.co.uk
whats the wheel spec's on that baby? (and price?)Get my Xona turbo, and you will have all that
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Messages
- 24,836
- Reaction score
- 6,078
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Wibbleton
- Website
- www.tuffty.co.uk
There was some silicon grease supplied with the DW65 that I used for the o-rings
<tuffty/>
64/88mm Compressor Wheel inducer/exducer diameter.
Has the Tial 1.03 Vband housing(thermal coated)
Price: 2400
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Messages
- 24,836
- Reaction score
- 6,078
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Wibbleton
- Website
- www.tuffty.co.uk
- Joined
- May 28, 2004
- Messages
- 10,217
- Reaction score
- 2,385
- Points
- 113
- Location
- nr Glos
- Website
- www.badger5.co.uk
wow, thats a phat old hotside. ideal for a 3.2 engine or something.64/88mm Compressor Wheel inducer/exducer diameter.
Turbine Outlet - 67mm diameter.
82lb/min max compressor mass flow.
600-850 horsepower applications
Has the Tial 1.03 Vband housing(thermal coated)
Price: 2400
pricey critters are'nt they
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Messages
- 24,836
- Reaction score
- 6,078
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Wibbleton
- Website
- www.tuffty.co.uk
Drove the S3 to work today... wanted to get a feel for the changes to the map...
Not too fussed about WOT as I know thats working fine... part throttle drivability after the change was the main thing I was interested in...
Map 1 ended up like this before the changes...
To pep the engine up a bit I tweaked the map thusly
But after driving the car today in real world traffic I found it a little too eager on part throttle so lunch time I tweaked the map again...
Only a small tweak above 6k but it made a noticeable difference and wasn't so eager on light throttle at higher rpm...
I had done a third gear run too so pulled that data out and graphed it to see whats what...
Boost (orange) vs Fuel rail pressure (blue)...
FRP seems to have had a hiccup at 7.4k so checked AFR and injector duty too
AFR looked ok...
IDC is getting pretty maxed out though... might put the 4bar in again and see if that helps... I still need to replace the main fuel line from the factory plastic lines to -6 hose... its also plausible that my DA-31 pump is getting tired but who knows...
I am not overly concerned at this time as the ECU has decent protection in case the fuelling goes a little wobbly
Happy with the progress... I also played about with the lower boost map after a couple of fairly dismal attempts while getting my head around the setup...
I need to do a proper logging session on this one but the boost gauge suggested it was 1.5bar which in fairness still felt pretty quick
<tuffty/>
Not too fussed about WOT as I know thats working fine... part throttle drivability after the change was the main thing I was interested in...
Map 1 ended up like this before the changes...
To pep the engine up a bit I tweaked the map thusly
But after driving the car today in real world traffic I found it a little too eager on part throttle so lunch time I tweaked the map again...
Only a small tweak above 6k but it made a noticeable difference and wasn't so eager on light throttle at higher rpm...
I had done a third gear run too so pulled that data out and graphed it to see whats what...
Boost (orange) vs Fuel rail pressure (blue)...
FRP seems to have had a hiccup at 7.4k so checked AFR and injector duty too
AFR looked ok...
IDC is getting pretty maxed out though... might put the 4bar in again and see if that helps... I still need to replace the main fuel line from the factory plastic lines to -6 hose... its also plausible that my DA-31 pump is getting tired but who knows...
I am not overly concerned at this time as the ECU has decent protection in case the fuelling goes a little wobbly
Happy with the progress... I also played about with the lower boost map after a couple of fairly dismal attempts while getting my head around the setup...
I need to do a proper logging session on this one but the boost gauge suggested it was 1.5bar which in fairness still felt pretty quick
<tuffty/>
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Messages
- 24,836
- Reaction score
- 6,078
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Wibbleton
- Website
- www.tuffty.co.uk
After doing a few runs for comparison it seems the fuel pressure 'wobble' is repeatable and is in the area where the injectors are hitting just over 90% IDC which in itself is probably not the best idea...
Fuel pressure from run 1
The pressure has a wobble around 7.4k rpm...
IDC from the same run..
At about 85% IDC it looks a little stressed...
Run 2 FRP...
..and the IDC...
Thankfully this wasn't reflected in the AFR... both runs were rock solid...
Whatever is happening its clear that my 1000cc at 3bar are not enough... Bill has tested these injectors on his injector rig and they aren't 1000cc at 3bar as advertised so I decided to fit the 4bar fpr back in which should hopefully give me a bit more headroom..
The FPR was much easier to remove from the IE rail than an OE one which is nice... the 4bar FPR also has a larger outlet too (4bar on the right)
With this fitted I flashed in the revised map... had to make a couple of changes to accommodate the extra fuel... also reset the adaptions table and went off for a drive to let the adaptions kick in... this should be a fairly painless exercise as I was pretty much at 1-2% LTFT before...
Coming along nicely... have adjusted the injector dead times now as these will influence the outcome a bit... will flash the new map in tonight ready for to drive about tomorrow..
I also had a chance to check the 1.5bar map... seems I have pretty much nailed the PID control which is nice as I still don't fully understand it enough to be able to explain it to anyone else but I get how it works in context of the maps
On the road the 1.5bar map feels surprisingly strong... should add a little long term reliability to the proceedings while keeping things interesting... switching maps is dead easy and can be done on the fly so if I need the extra boost I have it at the press of a button
Bit of driving to do to get LFTF's to a nice place... then I plan to get on the dyno and see where the tuning actually is..
<tuffty/>
Fuel pressure from run 1
The pressure has a wobble around 7.4k rpm...
IDC from the same run..
At about 85% IDC it looks a little stressed...
Run 2 FRP...
..and the IDC...
Thankfully this wasn't reflected in the AFR... both runs were rock solid...
Whatever is happening its clear that my 1000cc at 3bar are not enough... Bill has tested these injectors on his injector rig and they aren't 1000cc at 3bar as advertised so I decided to fit the 4bar fpr back in which should hopefully give me a bit more headroom..
The FPR was much easier to remove from the IE rail than an OE one which is nice... the 4bar FPR also has a larger outlet too (4bar on the right)
With this fitted I flashed in the revised map... had to make a couple of changes to accommodate the extra fuel... also reset the adaptions table and went off for a drive to let the adaptions kick in... this should be a fairly painless exercise as I was pretty much at 1-2% LTFT before...
Coming along nicely... have adjusted the injector dead times now as these will influence the outcome a bit... will flash the new map in tonight ready for to drive about tomorrow..
I also had a chance to check the 1.5bar map... seems I have pretty much nailed the PID control which is nice as I still don't fully understand it enough to be able to explain it to anyone else but I get how it works in context of the maps
On the road the 1.5bar map feels surprisingly strong... should add a little long term reliability to the proceedings while keeping things interesting... switching maps is dead easy and can be done on the fly so if I need the extra boost I have it at the press of a button
Bit of driving to do to get LFTF's to a nice place... then I plan to get on the dyno and see where the tuning actually is..
<tuffty/>
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Messages
- 24,836
- Reaction score
- 6,078
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Wibbleton
- Website
- www.tuffty.co.uk
Flashed the revised file in, reset the adaptions without applying them and went for a drive anyway... the tweak on the dead times seems to have brought the LFTF's down nicely...
Was only a short drive so there maybe a little more to do... will see what they look like tomorrow when I get back from Bills...
<tuffty/>
Was only a short drive so there maybe a little more to do... will see what they look like tomorrow when I get back from Bills...
<tuffty/>
Whats next? A nice compact submerged dual pump surge tank in the boot?
Then 1300cc injectors and the GTX3584rs
Then 1300cc injectors and the GTX3584rs
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Messages
- 24,836
- Reaction score
- 6,078
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Wibbleton
- Website
- www.tuffty.co.uk
LOL... Nah... Wouldn't touch a GTX with a barge pole...
Will look to tweak the fuel delivery system as needed to give reliability and overhead...
Next major expense will be a respray... Eventually ..
<tuffty/>
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Messages
- 24,836
- Reaction score
- 6,078
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Wibbleton
- Website
- www.tuffty.co.uk
Laggy for starters... Never seen a GTX perform on a 20v very well unless you turn the boost right up and that's not what I want on a road car... Can see where it would potentially work on an engine destined for the drag strip but not a road car
At the end of the day you use the right tool for the job... GTX isn't the right tool for my application
<tuffty/>
Since you have one DA-31 its less than £300 for a dual submerged tank, another DA-31 and lines.
I was joking on the GTX, you’re half a litre short on displacement for even mediocre spool up.
The current turbo is barely moving with the boost it’s running, I’m surprised Bill hasn’t cranked it up to 2.5 bar when you’re not looking
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Messages
- 24,836
- Reaction score
- 6,078
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Wibbleton
- Website
- www.tuffty.co.uk
Never again LOL....
Its the 0-400 guy from greece... turbo VR in it...
lol... 2.5bar isn't quite possible on my current setup mainly due to me running quite a soft spring on the wastegate... this was by design as I wanted a fairly low base pressure for drivability... it was a bit of a gamble as at the time I wasn't sure what the top end boost would do as traditionally you would go for at least a 1bar spring setup... mines around 0.6bar crack pressure creeping to about 0.8bar... this means that the engines not trying to launch me into space at part throttle and gives me a better range of control...Since you have one DA-31 its less than £300 for a dual submerged tank, another DA-31 and lines.
I was joking on the GTX, you’re half a litre short on displacement for even mediocre spool up.
The current turbo is barely moving with the boost it’s running, I’m surprised Bill hasn’t cranked it up to 2.5 bar when you’re not looking
2.2bar is pretty much flat out at the top of the rev range... I am sure I could push that with a stiffer spring but the car drives so nice and is quick enough so not really too worried...
Fuelling wise I think I will evolve to a swirl pot and upgrade the size of the feed lines from the inline... this should give me a nice safety margin...
A 3rd gear logging run earlier at least shows that I am not lacking in fuelling pressure capacity...
Still appears there is a little 'dip' at 7.5k rpm but AFR and IDC seem fine... not overly worried as it clearly isn't from the lack of fuelling capacity but could be the OE lines maxed out on flow so next step will be to change the fuel line from the inline pump from the plastic OE stuff to some pukker -6 fuel line...
Fuel trims are looking good too...
I am hoping to get on the dyno tomorrow for a couple of runs... this should sort the higher pressure higher rpm adaptions and hopefully finalise the change to the 4bar FPR plus will give me a figure and plot to see where I currently am tuning wise...
Top end power will be what it will be... won't be anything more to do there but might be able to lift the midrange if need be and see if there are any areas lower down that can be tweaked...
Very happy with this ECU and its capabilities... happy with the progress made and how the car drives now... soooo much better than ever before... even the brakes are feeling good now after the MC replacement and fluid change... starting to get the confidence back in them...
I need to clean the map file up a bit now that I have settled on the 1.5bar and 2.2bar maps... couple of things to sort so I can use the switches I have in the ESP cluster to switch the maps... also need to speak nicely to Brian to update the firmware so the race mode switching can be done with either a momentary switch or a latching switch... currently its just latching so I am using the cruise control on/off switch.. flipside is when its off I can't map switch as it disables the set/resume switches when off...
Only thing I use in race mode now is the non popping ALS which makes a massive difference when changing through the gears in a 'drag' situation...
<tuffty/>
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Messages
- 24,836
- Reaction score
- 6,078
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Wibbleton
- Website
- www.tuffty.co.uk
Done some spannering today...
Been meaning to fit a new oil pressure sensor for a while.. I had already sorted the wiring to the ECU when I did the fuel pressure sender...
Manifold off to get to it...
Old one was leaking a little...
New one in...
Next I had to add the sensor to the map so the ECU could see it...
...and tell the ECU what the input was...
Fired up the engine....
Looking good... I also added the sensor to the autolog so I can continually monitor the oil pressure when I haven't got the laptop connected...
I checked the log when I got home and pressure is looking ok...
Only issue I seem to have though is the oil pressure when 'hot' gets a little below a bar on idle... I know for a fact the engine is sound and tbh the oil pressure is no different to when the engine was first built... its always been like this... I fitted a Topran pump when I first built the engine then changed it some miles in to an OE one that improved it a bit but it is what it is... I have also plastigauged the crank and all is in spec...
Pressure only seems to get low on idle when hot... once up in the revs its all good so not overly bothered... I will however consider changing to 10w50 on the next oil change as lets face it its an engine producing nearly 300hp per litre...
Will be checking the logs over the next few weeks to see where the oil pressure is... I can then build the limp mode table for oil pressure as an extra safety feature..
Happy with that
Some of you may recall a little while back I mentioned I was going to resurrect my camber plates and look at using a larger spherical bearing as the standard one supplied by Silver Project is woefully small... I had already popped two of them which prompted me to swap back to LCR rubber tops...
Finally got around to making a start on these...
First job was to cut the weld for the original bearing holder to look at reusing the plate for the new bearing...
The larger bearing holder is quite a lot larger but just needed a little turning in the lathe to get it where it needed to be...
Just the other one to do and then weld it in...
A reminder of the bearing difference... Silver Project on the left, larger one to fit on the right...
<tuffty/>
Been meaning to fit a new oil pressure sensor for a while.. I had already sorted the wiring to the ECU when I did the fuel pressure sender...
Manifold off to get to it...
Old one was leaking a little...
New one in...
Next I had to add the sensor to the map so the ECU could see it...
...and tell the ECU what the input was...
Fired up the engine....
Looking good... I also added the sensor to the autolog so I can continually monitor the oil pressure when I haven't got the laptop connected...
I checked the log when I got home and pressure is looking ok...
Only issue I seem to have though is the oil pressure when 'hot' gets a little below a bar on idle... I know for a fact the engine is sound and tbh the oil pressure is no different to when the engine was first built... its always been like this... I fitted a Topran pump when I first built the engine then changed it some miles in to an OE one that improved it a bit but it is what it is... I have also plastigauged the crank and all is in spec...
Pressure only seems to get low on idle when hot... once up in the revs its all good so not overly bothered... I will however consider changing to 10w50 on the next oil change as lets face it its an engine producing nearly 300hp per litre...
Will be checking the logs over the next few weeks to see where the oil pressure is... I can then build the limp mode table for oil pressure as an extra safety feature..
Happy with that
Some of you may recall a little while back I mentioned I was going to resurrect my camber plates and look at using a larger spherical bearing as the standard one supplied by Silver Project is woefully small... I had already popped two of them which prompted me to swap back to LCR rubber tops...
Finally got around to making a start on these...
First job was to cut the weld for the original bearing holder to look at reusing the plate for the new bearing...
The larger bearing holder is quite a lot larger but just needed a little turning in the lathe to get it where it needed to be...
Just the other one to do and then weld it in...
A reminder of the bearing difference... Silver Project on the left, larger one to fit on the right...
<tuffty/>
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2015
- Messages
- 3,565
- Reaction score
- 770
- Points
- 113
Hi Tuffty, can I ask the purpose of exposing the oil pressure to the ECU? I understand you want to see this in log files etc but can you program in a trigger based on oil pressure @ 80-90 degree c @ 3875 rpm @ 4 gear etc
You know what I mean, can you alert or 'All stop' if the pressure is low?
You know what I mean, can you alert or 'All stop' if the pressure is low?
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Messages
- 24,836
- Reaction score
- 6,078
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Wibbleton
- Website
- www.tuffty.co.uk
Knowing what the oil pressure is doing is always a nice place to be... but this is generally done using gauges which are simply a ballache to keep track of... I have a boost gauge but rarely look at it as I kinda feel that knowing what I need to avoid hitting on the road takes precedence
The limp mode on the IECU can react to various inputs and conditions (as per the pic in my previous post)... oil pressure is just one of them and limp mode will be triggered based on engine temp vs a minimum expected oil pressure for a certain duration... limp mode will limit you to 20% throttle and N75 will be switched off (actuator pressure)
This may or may not 'save' an engine of course depending on circumstances but its better than trying to watch half a dozen gauges while driving as the ECU will certainly react more quickly than I would in the event of oil pressure failure or any of the other configurable monitoring conditions..
The ECU has other protection mechanisms too... for starters it will limit boost based on engine coolant temp... it can prevent you running 2.2bar from cold for example...
<tuffty/>
Knowing what the oil pressure is doing is always a nice place to be... but this is generally done using gauges which are simply a ballache to keep track of... I have a boost gauge but rarely look at it as I kinda feel that knowing what I need to avoid hitting on the road takes precedence
The limp mode on the IECU can react to various inputs and conditions (as per the pic in my previous post)... oil pressure is just one of them and limp mode will be triggered based on engine temp vs a minimum expected oil pressure for a certain duration... limp mode will limit you to 20% throttle and N75 will be switched off (actuator pressure)
This may or may not 'save' an engine of course depending on circumstances but its better than trying to watch half a dozen gauges while driving as the ECU will certainly react more quickly than I would in the event of oil pressure failure or any of the other configurable monitoring conditions..
The ECU has other protection mechanisms too... for starters it will limit boost based on engine coolant temp... it can prevent you running 2.2bar from cold for example...
<tuffty/>
More fail safes that I knew of! Clever stuff. As is all these graphs etc, way over my head keep up the good work Paul.
Done some spannering today...
Been meaning to fit a new oil pressure sensor for a while.. I had already sorted the wiring to the ECU when I did the fuel pressure sender...
Manifold off to get to it...
Old one was leaking a little...
New one in...
Next I had to add the sensor to the map so the ECU could see it...
View attachment 157670
...and tell the ECU what the input was...
View attachment 157671
Fired up the engine....
Looking good... I also added the sensor to the autolog so I can continually monitor the oil pressure when I haven't got the laptop connected...
I checked the log when I got home and pressure is looking ok...
View attachment 157673
Only issue I seem to have though is the oil pressure when 'hot' gets a little below a bar on idle... I know for a fact the engine is sound and tbh the oil pressure is no different to when the engine was first built... its always been like this... I fitted a Topran pump when I first built the engine then changed it some miles in to an OE one that improved it a bit but it is what it is... I have also plastigauged the crank and all is in spec...
Pressure only seems to get low on idle when hot... once up in the revs its all good so not overly bothered... I will however consider changing to 10w50 on the next oil change as lets face it its an engine producing nearly 300hp per litre...
Will be checking the logs over the next few weeks to see where the oil pressure is... I can then build the limp mode table for oil pressure as an extra safety feature..
View attachment 157675
Happy with that
Some of you may recall a little while back I mentioned I was going to resurrect my camber plates and look at using a larger spherical bearing as the standard one supplied by Silver Project is woefully small... I had already popped two of them which prompted me to swap back to LCR rubber tops...
Finally got around to making a start on these...
First job was to cut the weld for the original bearing holder to look at reusing the plate for the new bearing...
The larger bearing holder is quite a lot larger but just needed a little turning in the lathe to get it where it needed to be...
Just the other one to do and then weld it in...
A reminder of the bearing difference... Silver Project on the left, larger one to fit on the right...
<tuffty/>
As usual
Love your work!!!
Every time I read your build thread I feel the need to spend lots of money
Great work as always and I do love that ECU, it’s got some awesome features
Steve
Great work as always and I do love that ECU, it’s got some awesome features
Steve
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Messages
- 24,836
- Reaction score
- 6,078
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Wibbleton
- Website
- www.tuffty.co.uk
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Messages
- 24,836
- Reaction score
- 6,078
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Wibbleton
- Website
- www.tuffty.co.uk
Soooooo.... had a run on the dyno today.... up until now I have been road mapping (in mexico)... this has worked out great as I can do it as and when I have the time but the dyno run gave me a decent baseline to work from...
Scores on the doors were some 561hp and 429ftlbs... thats no real surprise as these are figures she has done before... however... overlaying todays run with my previous 'best' run and the one I use as the 'what she can do on a good day' comparison its obvious there is a little more work to do...
Boost profile is the obvious tell... my current profile is mapped around the surge line whereas I just went for it with the ME7 tune... thats ok, its explainable and ultimately sortable...
In fact the plot resembles a previous run before I tweaked mid range boost on the ME7...
I was running more boost lower down it would seem back then... suggests there is some room for improvement there so happy days...
Intake temps were looking a little high at the end of the run... injector IDC is looking good though.... the 4bar certainly helping there...
WMI should have easily kept IAT's in check and the tank was emptying so didn't really think it would need checking out but seeing as my nozzle is easy to get too and I have had it block up before after prolonged time off the road I checked it anyway...
Thats not a good sign... so stripped the nozzle and cleaned it out...
Before I left the workshop to go home I loaded a revised map on... I upped the lower rpm boost request to see what would happen...
Appears to have worked... it did surge obviously but it did deal with it fine... car felt quicker too... looking at the logs it suggests that the change has made a positive improvement...
The difference between tweaked file (left) and previous file from the dyno run (right) suggests its heading in the right direction... the values the ECU spits out can be taken with a pinch of salt but they are at least comparative...
Bit more tweaking to do but shows promise
Another nice result was the WMI... seems its now working as it should...
Ambient on the dyno run was 22deg, IATs were 37deg.... on the road with the WMI running, ambient was 21deg and IATs 26deg... much better
I need to sift through the data a bit more and work out the changes for the next file...
Not sure there is much more top end power in her tbh and not looking to run more boost but there is certainly some work I can do below 5k to lift things up there
<tuffty/>
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Messages
- 24,836
- Reaction score
- 6,078
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Wibbleton
- Website
- www.tuffty.co.uk
Further tweakage of the map... referred back to my old ME7 map looking at AFR and N75 control to see what the differences were..
The factory approach to spool is to drive the N75 flat out then catch it as it spools... so I made some changes to the PID tables to emulate this... the plan being this should nail the wastegate shut until I want it to open and help spool up...
The other thing I looked at was the fuelling... I have been mapping quite rich at high loads... this is fairly normal for a race car but looking at my old LAMFA table I was running 0.85 (12.5 AFR)... on the IECU I am running 0.82 (12 afr)... I also noted that I am quite rich through spool too and I know Bill tends to lean out a bit on spool to help get it going...
To that end I made a few changes to the target lambda to lean it out a tad... running low 12's or high 11's is fine for sustained load for track use but I have EGT and other protections in place so everything will be fine running a little less rich... so I am now running 0.85under most heavy load/boost conditions with 0.82 above 6k for now... will see how that goes...
Initial logging suggests I am still heading in the right direction..
More boost through the surge zone... surge of course is not the best idea in the world but in reality on the road when driving properly (and not third gear from 2k rpm) surge is not an issue as you are through it to quickly and gear changes when 'on it' drops you right back in the power band anyway...
I will be looking at getting a ported housing though... this should give me a bit more flexibility in what I can do tuning this area...
The thing to remember of course is boost doesn't always equal more power... boost is the result of restriction... surge is the result of the engines inability to consume airflow... there will be a point that I can turn boost up and get nothing more (than heat) out... at which point I will back it out a tad...
The car certainly feels quicker as a result but I think I will leave it where it is until I can get back on the dyno...
The ECU logs do suggest the changes are working though... I am using the rpm where I was getting decent spool (4.5k ish) previously as the reference...
Logs from the dyno run yesterday...
...and from the latest file change...
Would appear that I have picked up power and torque according to the ECU...will need to see this on the dyno really but looks plausible
Also looks like the IAT situation is sorted...
7 degrees above ambient at the end of the run is better than 15 degrees prior to fixing the WMI
Really am having quite a bit of fun tuning with this ECU... as is evidenced by the amount of fuel I have got through over the past few months lol
<tuffty/>
The factory approach to spool is to drive the N75 flat out then catch it as it spools... so I made some changes to the PID tables to emulate this... the plan being this should nail the wastegate shut until I want it to open and help spool up...
The other thing I looked at was the fuelling... I have been mapping quite rich at high loads... this is fairly normal for a race car but looking at my old LAMFA table I was running 0.85 (12.5 AFR)... on the IECU I am running 0.82 (12 afr)... I also noted that I am quite rich through spool too and I know Bill tends to lean out a bit on spool to help get it going...
To that end I made a few changes to the target lambda to lean it out a tad... running low 12's or high 11's is fine for sustained load for track use but I have EGT and other protections in place so everything will be fine running a little less rich... so I am now running 0.85under most heavy load/boost conditions with 0.82 above 6k for now... will see how that goes...
Initial logging suggests I am still heading in the right direction..
More boost through the surge zone... surge of course is not the best idea in the world but in reality on the road when driving properly (and not third gear from 2k rpm) surge is not an issue as you are through it to quickly and gear changes when 'on it' drops you right back in the power band anyway...
I will be looking at getting a ported housing though... this should give me a bit more flexibility in what I can do tuning this area...
The thing to remember of course is boost doesn't always equal more power... boost is the result of restriction... surge is the result of the engines inability to consume airflow... there will be a point that I can turn boost up and get nothing more (than heat) out... at which point I will back it out a tad...
The car certainly feels quicker as a result but I think I will leave it where it is until I can get back on the dyno...
The ECU logs do suggest the changes are working though... I am using the rpm where I was getting decent spool (4.5k ish) previously as the reference...
Logs from the dyno run yesterday...
...and from the latest file change...
Would appear that I have picked up power and torque according to the ECU...will need to see this on the dyno really but looks plausible
Also looks like the IAT situation is sorted...
7 degrees above ambient at the end of the run is better than 15 degrees prior to fixing the WMI
Really am having quite a bit of fun tuning with this ECU... as is evidenced by the amount of fuel I have got through over the past few months lol
<tuffty/>
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2015
- Messages
- 3,565
- Reaction score
- 770
- Points
- 113
eat sleep launch repeat
This car is essentially madness Tuffty I love the smooth controlled look in the graphs , can I ask how the power and torque "estimates" from the map and logs alone compared to Bill's dyno ? what might you consider regarding modifications for more power? without turbo charging a 3.2?
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Messages
- 24,836
- Reaction score
- 6,078
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Wibbleton
- Website
- www.tuffty.co.uk
With WMI... without they are typically substantially higher especially on the dyno...the 7 degr. over ambient is with or without WMI, Paul?? Either way, that's nice and low, and it does seem like you're getting there!!
Fairly close in part tbh... enough that I feel confident that any reported difference is relative...
Logs at 6k rpm
Dyno at 6k rpm
Even at the higher revs its plausible...
Sadly the max value the logger displays seems to be 500hp/nm so can't see the shape of the top end of the graph.. I think mines the most powerful car Ignitron has got an ECU on lol
As for more power... other than a slightly larger billet compressor I am not sure there is much left in her... yeah I could probably get to over 600hp with a bit more faffing and no doubt expense but tbh she is not exactly slow...
Any future upgrades will more likely be from necessity than anything else... I am not a number chaser and not sure another 40hp or more will make much of any difference until 150+mph... I'd rather not compromise the drivability I have which fitting something 'bigger' will most likely do...
<tuffty/>
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Messages
- 24,836
- Reaction score
- 6,078
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Wibbleton
- Website
- www.tuffty.co.uk
You need to do the boost tables again anyway but you know that..... you know when you put the proper spring in the Wastegate 
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2015
- Messages
- 3,565
- Reaction score
- 770
- Points
- 113
Don't you have to tell the program the weight of the vehicle including fluids and people to help it calculate power and torque? Ecu plot and Android torque for example changes the values based on the weight of the thing that's being measured. A stock 225 TT weighs about 50kg more than an S3. At about 1450kg if I recall plus oil, fuel, coolant, luggage and driver etc all needs to be added to the dry weight?
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Messages
- 24,836
- Reaction score
- 6,078
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Wibbleton
- Website
- www.tuffty.co.uk
Lol.... no!You need to do the boost tables again anyway but you know that..... you know when you put the proper spring in the Wastegate
<tuffty/>
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Messages
- 24,836
- Reaction score
- 6,078
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Wibbleton
- Website
- www.tuffty.co.uk
Nope... weight has no influence on an engines ability to produce power... only how quick it gets up the road...
ECU works off the VE table... much like the MAF calc of gs/0.8
<tuffty/>
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Messages
- 24,836
- Reaction score
- 6,078
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Wibbleton
- Website
- www.tuffty.co.uk
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Messages
- 24,836
- Reaction score
- 6,078
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Wibbleton
- Website
- www.tuffty.co.uk
Bit more map tweakage... still need to do something with the surge (ported housing is currently being looked into) but at 5.5k there are noticeable gains...
Actual boost is not quite meeting specified boost at this time as I have hit the i-max value of the integral part of the PID...
So a tweak there and that should hopefully let the boost hit (if it can) the specified boost
I have made a few other tweaks too... tweaked the VE map to sort out the fuel trims which are looking much better...
Few bits to fix up in the VE map once adaption is sorted but much closer now than when I first swapped to the 4bar FPR
Other than that, everything is looking peachy...
Will try and get back on the dyno for another baseline run and maybe 'finish' the tuning there if need be...
<tuffty/>
Actual boost is not quite meeting specified boost at this time as I have hit the i-max value of the integral part of the PID...
So a tweak there and that should hopefully let the boost hit (if it can) the specified boost
I have made a few other tweaks too... tweaked the VE map to sort out the fuel trims which are looking much better...
Few bits to fix up in the VE map once adaption is sorted but much closer now than when I first swapped to the 4bar FPR
Other than that, everything is looking peachy...
Will try and get back on the dyno for another baseline run and maybe 'finish' the tuning there if need be...
<tuffty/>
Considering you use such a low Wastegate spring I’d expect you to have more issues trying to get it to hold over 3x its set pressure.
Since 2x is the recommended
Since 2x is the recommended
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Messages
- 24,836
- Reaction score
- 6,078
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Wibbleton
- Website
- www.tuffty.co.uk
What can I tell yah... its working so far...
I may look into changing the spring when I eventually replace the turbo but tbh I am not chasing figures so unless it starts giving me problems with boost control then I am happy to keep it in there for now...
The main issue is I do have a little creep... not sure exactly what the cause is but crack pressure is some 8-9psi rising to 12-14psi ish... a stiffer spring may exacerbate the issue which is a concern..
My original intention was not to push boost beyond 2bar... ok I am a little above that now but I don't intend to go higher and while the control is there I don't see a need for a spring change...
<tuffty/>
Similar threads
Deleted member 65282