Impatience

David McQueen · Oct 29, 2017

Just wanting to see what everyones else's thoughts on this and wether its not just me that is like this. First car i got on finance was a corsa sri a few years ago, kept that one for a year before trading in for an a3 tdi SE 6 months old at the time. Lost about £1200 on that one but didn't bother to much as it was my first car i traded in as deposit. Moving on to the next car after a year regretted not getting an sline and managed to keep that 2 years before trading in towards my current car, 66 plate daytona grey sportback a3 with a few optional extras. Was still £3500 negative on that deal but was cleared with deposit contribution as i was buying a brand new car so started from scratch again.

Now that i am a year into my current 4 year deal i have already got the itch AGAIN for something else. Love my car and am grateful to drive a nice smart looking car but cant help be envious for an s3 whenever i see one. Not a chance i can look and changing this time as I'm around £5000 off audis trade in (i know other companies will give better trade in value) with a mortgage now and more important things just isn't justifiable to keep taking a loss on cars!

Just wanted to see if this is normal behaviour lol, has anyone been like this or is still like this?

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Matt Titanium · Oct 29, 2017

Yes, that's normal behaviour in today's "have what you want NOW" society

You can use man maths, burn the money you've already lost, take out a loan to pay off the £5k negative equity, decide you can afford £600 a month on a PCP then look at what Audi extras you can load onto an S3 for that.

Or

Save your money then buy a car you can afford. Then save some more money, buy a car you can afford. etc. etc. After ten years you'll have saved £2k a year in interest payments, another £2k a year in depreciation and be able to afford the brand new car you want, own it outright and be saving £2k interest a year for the rest of your life.

Baldyone · Oct 29, 2017

I’d have to know what normal is to be able to answer that properly. What I can tell you is you’re not alone. A3 Sline 2.0tdi for 18months on PCP and the itch began. Bang on 24months it was chucked in for the S3 Stronic with B&O and SS Seats. That cost another hefty deposit I was only to happy to hand over and monthlies went up by £180.
Now 18month into the S3 and as much as I love it, I’m now thinking of less power, lower monthlies & bigger. Now I need a Q3 blah blah blah
Will I change, no idea really and my sensible head will hopefully make sure I only do so if it’s not financially too big a hit for me to get past the boss. Add to that I still enjoy the S3 and I’ll hopefully hang on until the 3rd year when the new Q3 shows it’s face and I get to decide if Audi can still represent a good deal / worth the premium.
PCP is both the best and worst thing for us car buyers. As long as I / we stay out of financial doo doo then it’s ok......isn’t it?

Baldyone · Oct 29, 2017

Matt Titanium said:
Yes, that's normal behaviour in today's "have what you want NOW" society

You can use man maths, burn the money you've already lost, take out a loan to pay off the £5k negative equity, decide you can afford £600 a month on a PCP then look at what Audi extras you can load onto an S3 for that.

Or

Save your money then buy a car you can afford. Then save some more money, buy a car you can afford. etc. etc. After ten years you'll have saved £2k a year in interest payments, another £2k a year in depreciation and be able to afford the brand new car you want, own it outright and be saving £2k interest a year for the rest of your life.

There is some smart thinking.....are you my wife?

Matt Titanium · Oct 29, 2017

No... but you are fortunate to have found a good woman there.

David McQueen · Oct 29, 2017

Matt Titanium said:
Yes, that's normal behaviour in today's "have what you want NOW" society

You can use man maths, burn the money you've already lost, take out a loan to pay off the £5k negative equity, decide you can afford £600 a month on a PCP then look at what Audi extras you can load onto an S3 for that.

Or

Save your money then buy a car you can afford. Then save some more money, buy a car you can afford. etc. etc. After ten years you'll have saved £2k a year in interest payments, another £2k a year in depreciation and be able to afford the brand new car you want, own it outright and be saving £2k interest a year for the rest of your life.

In an ideal world would love to do this or have done this when i started driving but realistically at my age any money saved away will be spent on something else or towards something only 24 but with looking at moving again in a few years and a kid in the very near future the method of spending whats allowed per month on a car suits me. Also as youve said have never looked into what car and deals are available 0% apr in the future but cant imagine theres any that would suit me but may be wrong!

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David McQueen · Oct 29, 2017

Baldyone said:
I’d have to know what normal is to be able to answer that properly. What I can tell you is you’re not alone. A3 Sline 2.0tdi for 18months on PCP and the itch began. Bang on 24months it was chucked in for the S3 Stronic with B&O and SS Seats. That cost another hefty deposit I was only to happy to hand over and monthlies went up by £180.
Now 18month into the S3 and as much as I love it, I’m now thinking of less power, lower monthlies & bigger. Now I need a Q3 blah blah blah
Will I change, no idea really and my sensible head will hopefully make sure I only do so if it’s not financially too big a hit for me to get past the boss. Add to that I still enjoy the S3 and I’ll hopefully hang on until the 3rd year when the new Q3 shows it’s face and I get to decide if Audi can still represent a good deal / worth the premium.
PCP is both the best and worst thing for us car buyers. As long as I / we stay out of financial doo doo then it’s ok......isn’t it?

Think in your head you always have the next car in mind even when just getting a new one, would totally agree with you sucker for a pcp lol. On your subject though an RSQ3 would be nicee

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Matt Titanium · Oct 29, 2017

David McQueen said:
In an ideal world would love to do this or have done this when i started driving but realistically at my age any money saved away will be spent on something else or towards something only 24 but with looking at moving again in a few years and a kid in the very near future the method of spending whats allowed per month on a car suits me. Also as youve said have never looked into what car and deals are available 0% apr in the future but cant imagine theres any that would suit me but may be wrong!
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I understand why PCP is popular, not saying it's wrong and you could have easily made more than the interest cost by investing the capital elsewhere over the last few years, but the total cost and commitment of a 3 or 4 year PCP adds up to a tidy sum with interest for something you just hand back at the end to do the same all over again.

Bristle Hound · Oct 29, 2017

David McQueen said:
Just wanting to see what everyones else's thoughts on this and wether its not just me that is like this. First car i got on finance was a corsa sri a few years ago, kept that one for a year before trading in for an a3 tdi SE 6 months old at the time. Lost about £1200 on that one but didn't bother to much as it was my first car i traded in as deposit. Moving on to the next car after a year regretted not getting an sline and managed to keep that 2 years before trading in towards my current car, 66 plate daytona grey sportback a3 with a few optional extras. Was still £3500 negative on that deal but was cleared with deposit contribution as i was buying a brand new car so started from scratch again.

Now that i am a year into my current 4 year deal i have already got the itch AGAIN for something else. Love my car and am grateful to drive a nice smart looking car but cant help be envious for an s3 whenever i see one. Not a chance i can look and changing this time as I'm around £5000 off audis trade in (i know other companies will give better trade in value) with a mortgage now and more important things just isn't justifiable to keep taking a loss on cars!

Just wanted to see if this is normal behaviour lol, has anyone been like this or is still like this?

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@David McQueen - Sounds as tho' you need to be buying your cars on 24 month personal lease deals IMO
Cheaper monthlies, no depreciation / negative equity, no VED to pay to name but a few

David McQueen · Oct 29, 2017

Matt Titanium said:
I understand why PCP is popular, not saying it's wrong and you could have easily made more than the interest cost by investing the capital elsewhere over the last few years, but the total cost and commitment of a 3 or 4 year PCP adds up to a tidy sum with interest for something you just hand back at the end to do the same all over again.

Never really payed much interest in APR in regards to cars until i got a mortgage. So this may have an effect in my next car choice, just had a quick glance and can get a focus st-3 discounted and with 0% apr. I know its nothing compared to an s3 but fully loaded with what would add up to around £3000 in extras in an audi and with 250 bhp may be worth a look when the time comes, depending on my financial position. Likely will be another year from now but all depending whats going on in life realistically. Thanks for your input gives a more sensible view also with regards to cars

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David McQueen · Oct 29, 2017

Matt Titanium said:
I understand why PCP is popular, not saying it's wrong and you could have easily made more than the interest cost by investing the capital elsewhere over the last few years, but the total cost and commitment of a 3 or 4 year PCP adds up to a tidy sum with interest for something you just hand back at the end to do the same all over again.

Never really payed much interest in APR in regards to cars until i got a mortgage. So this may have an effect in my next car choice, just had a quick glance and can get a focus st-3 discounted and with 0% apr. I know its nothing compared to an s3 but fully loaded with what would add up to around £3000 in extras in an audi and with 250 bhp may be worth a look when the time comes, depending on my financial position. Likely will be another year from now but all depending whats going on in life realistically. Thanks for your input gives a more sensible view also with regards to cars

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DrEskimo · Oct 29, 2017

David McQueen said:
Never really payed much interest in APR in regards to cars until i got a mortgage. So this may have an effect in my next car choice, just had a quick glance and can get a focus st-3 discounted and with 0% apr. I know its nothing compared to an s3 but fully loaded with what would add up to around £3000 in extras in an audi and with 250 bhp may be worth a look when the time comes, depending on my financial position. Likely will be another year from now but all depending whats going on in life realistically. Thanks for your input gives a more sensible view also with regards to cars

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No such thing as free money. The 0% is probably just rolling the interest payment into the cost of the car. Either you get a big discount and pay interest, or get hardly any discount and pay no interest...I could be wrong but I bet you're not getting massive discounts or contributions with these 0% deals??

As for rolling negative equity into a new car deal....with any debt, including a lease, you are taking on risk. Payments seem manageable, but as soon as you don't have that regular income (can happen to anyone anytime...illness, accident, redundancy, etc.) you are stuffed and without a car. With negative equity rolled in (i.e. debt from a previous car loan...) you not only risk losing the car, but being forced to pay the thousands you still owe....sorry it's just madness...!

Me. I did the new car PCP thing last 2yrs. Got a 3.0 supercharged V6 S5. It was the single most stupid thing I have ever done. Did I love the car. Of course. Sold it and have absolutely nothing to show for it, and was throwing my hard earned income to finance companies rather than being able to save it. Just no worth it for me. I don't make enough or have enough disposable income that I can throw thousands and thousands of my income at a new car...

I think Matt has hit the nail on the head for me. People are not looking at the full cost, or the risk involved if you suddenly have a large unexpected cost or don't have a steady income anymore. So easy to look at it as a monthly payment without look at the long term picture. If people looked at buying a decent used car, saw the massive reduction in costs, and then added the amount they would save if they put their monthly payment in their savings account each month rather than giving it to the banks, they would realise just how much better off they will be. No financial risk, lower overall cost (deprecation is more than half typically half) and increased ability to save. Of course saving money is boring....

Oh and no argument about increased repair costs don't make any logical sense to me either. You are paying thousands more for a new car in interest and depreciation, so you don't have to pay thousands in repair bills.....?? The used car is a calculated risk. You could pay thousands or you could pay nothing (cars follow a u shaped curve in terms of repair costs, so statistically unlikely to have much, if any repairs, during the 3-8years of a cars life). A new car you are guaranteeing you are paying thousands more..!

David McQueen · Oct 29, 2017

DrEskimo said:
No such thing as free money. The 0% is probably just rolling the interest payment into the cost of the car. Either you get a big discount and pay interest, or get hardly any discount and pay no interest...I could be wrong but I bet you're not getting massive discounts or contributions with these 0% deals??

As for rolling negative equity into a new car deal....with any debt, including a lease, you are taking on risk. Payments seem manageable, but as soon as you don't have that regular income (can happen to anyone anytime...illness, accident, redundancy, etc.) you are stuffed and without a car. With negative equity rolled in (i.e. debt from a previous car loan...) you not only risk losing the car, but being forced to pay the thousands you still owe....sorry it's just madness...!

Me. I did the new car PCP thing last 2yrs. Got a 3.0 supercharged V6 S5. It was the single most stupid thing I have ever done. Did I love the car. Of course. Sold it and have absolutely nothing to show for it, and was throwing my hard earned income to finance companies rather than being able to save it. Just no worth it for me. I don't make enough or have enough disposable income that I can throw thousands and thousands of my income at a new car...

I think Matt has hit the nail on the head for me. People are not looking at the full cost, or the risk involved if you suddenly have a large unexpected cost or don't have a steady income anymore. So easy to look at it as a monthly payment without look at the long term picture. If people looked at buying a decent used car, saw the massive reduction in costs, and then added the amount they would save if they put their monthly payment in their savings account each month rather than giving it to the banks, they would realise just how much better off they will be. No financial risk, lower overall cost (deprecation is more than half typically half) and increased ability to save. Of course saving money is boring....

Oh and no argument about increased repair costs don't make any logical sense to me either. You are paying thousands more for a new car in interest and depreciation, so you don't have to pay thousands in repair bills.....?? The used car is a calculated risk. You could pay thousands or you could pay nothing (cars follow a u shaped curve in terms of repair costs, so statistically unlikely to have much, if any repairs, during the 3-8years of a cars life). A new car you are guaranteeing you are paying thousands more..!

Never thought of it that way before, will definitely explore all options next time as financially this makes far more sense. On the bigger picture my car is £4800 a year, which is a lot of money, also the mrs uses it weekdays just now as i have a work van bit next year she is starting her own business and getting her own car so therefore mine will only be used weekends and the odd time during the week, this would make it seem daft to be paying £400 a month for a car or potentially more if i went down the s3 route for a car that will be hardly used.

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S32B · Oct 29, 2017

David McQueen said:
paying £400 a month for a car or potentially more if i went down the s3 route for a car that will be hardly used.

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My S3 was £382 per month with £1k down! All about the discount up front

DrEskimo · Oct 29, 2017

David McQueen said:
Never thought of it that way before, will definitely explore all options next time as financially this makes far more sense. On the bigger picture my car is £4800 a year, which is a lot of money, also the mrs uses it weekdays just now as i have a work van bit next year she is starting her own business and getting her own car so therefore mine will only be used weekends and the odd time during the week, this would make it seem daft to be paying £400 a month for a car or potentially more if i went down the s3 route for a car that will be hardly used.

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Yea that was a major factor for getting rid of my S5 and cancelling my S3. I just don’t use it enough to warrant so much money towards a car.

Deals like BH’s Leon are the only ones that make me go....hmmmm yea maybe that’s worth it! As he says, it’s relatively a small amount of money and no additional costs.

But it’s the fact that it hampers your ability to save and the risk if you don’t have a steady income that still put me off leasing. Also they tend to be very low mileage and basic spec.

I think it was looking at my GFs situation that really opened my eyes:

She bought a used 60 plate MINI Cooper back in 2013 with decent amount of options and only 15k miles on the clock. Cost her £11k from a main dealer.

This December she would have had it 4yrs and has spent £300 on out of warranty repairs (a replacement thermostat). 4 tyres at £320, 4 MOTs at £160, brake fluid service at £50 and one service for £200 (had a service pack from the dealer so didn’t pay for first two). Just about to replace all brake discs and pads for £360 from main dealer again. VED is £165 so £660

WBAC are offering her £5k, but could easily fetch £6k privately as it’s only done 40k.

So total cost if she sold it tomorrow would be £5k in depreciation over 4 yrs and 25k miles and about £2k in serving/maintenance/repairs/VED/MOT. £7k for 4yrs motoring.

Let’s say she’s dead lucky and gets lease deals like BH and finds a 1+23 & £250 per month that offers her similar spec car. She does this twice (so very lucky...!). That’s £12k. Nearly twice as much. Now of course everyone’s situation is different. Some people may say that they are passionate about their cars and the extra £6k over 4yrs is worth it for a new car. Fair enough I can understand that. £125 a month essentially, and that’s a very reasonable budget for enjoying yourself with hobbies, etc.

....Now add the £12k she saved each month by not having a lease....

I don’t know about you but that’s when I went...nah, sorry that’s too much money to give away just to get a new version of a car every couple of years, when a used version a couple of years old is just as good...!

She can keep the car and keep saving, sell and add the saving to buy a even better car at £18k. sell and buy a similar price car at £11k and pocket the £7k savings and start again.

Leasing...£0 saved, £12k lighter in the wallet, and have to look to start another £6k lease....the cycle continues....

Jassyo06 · Oct 30, 2017

David McQueen said:
Just wanting to see what everyones else's thoughts on this and wether its not just me that is like this. First car i got on finance was a corsa sri a few years ago, kept that one for a year before trading in for an a3 tdi SE 6 months old at the time. Lost about £1200 on that one but didn't bother to much as it was my first car i traded in as deposit. Moving on to the next car after a year regretted not getting an sline and managed to keep that 2 years before trading in towards my current car, 66 plate daytona grey sportback a3 with a few optional extras. Was still £3500 negative on that deal but was cleared with deposit contribution as i was buying a brand new car so started from scratch again.

Now that i am a year into my current 4 year deal i have already got the itch AGAIN for something else. Love my car and am grateful to drive a nice smart looking car but cant help be envious for an s3 whenever i see one. Not a chance i can look and changing this time as I'm around £5000 off audis trade in (i know other companies will give better trade in value) with a mortgage now and more important things just isn't justifiable to keep taking a loss on cars!

Just wanted to see if this is normal behaviour lol, has anyone been like this or is still like this?

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There's nothing wrong with ya mate, my own thoughts and my own mindset are if you want something hard enough you'll get it eventually, everyone needs something to aim for in life what that is, is up to the individual

vamos · Oct 30, 2017

DrEskimo said:
Yea that was a major factor for getting rid of my S5 and cancelling my S3. I just don’t use it enough to warrant so much money towards a car.

Deals like BH’s Leon are the only ones that make me go....hmmmm yea maybe that’s worth it! As he says, it’s relatively a small amount of money and no additional costs.

But it’s the fact that it hampers your ability to save and the risk if you don’t have a steady income that still put me off leasing. Also they tend to be very low mileage and basic spec.

I think it was looking at my GFs situation that really opened my eyes:

She bought a used 60 plate MINI Cooper back in 2013 with decent amount of options and only 15k miles on the clock. Cost her £11k from a main dealer.

This December she would have had it 4yrs and has spent £300 on out of warranty repairs (a replacement thermostat). 4 tyres at £320, 4 MOTs at £160, brake fluid service at £50 and one service for £200 (had a service pack from the dealer so didn’t pay for first two). Just about to replace all brake discs and pads for £360 from main dealer again. VED is £165 so £660

WBAC are offering her £5k, but could easily fetch £6k privately as it’s only done 40k.

So total cost if she sold it tomorrow would be £5k in depreciation over 4 yrs and 25k miles and about £2k in serving/maintenance/repairs/VED/MOT. £7k for 4yrs motoring.

Let’s say she’s dead lucky and gets lease deals like BH and finds a 1+23 & £250 per month that offers her similar spec car. She does this twice (so very lucky...!). That’s £12k. Nearly twice as much. Now of course everyone’s situation is different. Some people may say that they are passionate about their cars and the extra £6k over 4yrs is worth it for a new car. Fair enough I can understand that. £125 a month essentially, and that’s a very reasonable budget for enjoying yourself with hobbies, etc.

....Now add the £12k she saved each month by not having a lease....

I don’t know about you but that’s when I went...nah, sorry that’s too much money to give away just to get a new version of a car every couple of years, when a used version a couple of years old is just as good...!

She can keep the car and keep saving, sell and add the saving to buy a even better car at £18k. sell and buy a similar price car at £11k and pocket the £7k savings and start again.

Leasing...£0 saved, £12k lighter in the wallet, and have to look to start another £6k lease....the cycle continues....

Absolutely bang on; this is not free money, they are not doing this out of the kindness of their hearts;
PCP is what it is - you are paying to rent a car and nothing else.
I hate to sound old and miserable but to get ahead in this life one must learn discipline. Hell there are some great second hand cars out there for peanuts.

FaisalJ · Oct 30, 2017

DrEskimo said:
Yea that was a major factor for getting rid of my S5 and cancelling my S3. I just don’t use it enough to warrant so much money towards a car.

Deals like BH’s Leon are the only ones that make me go....hmmmm yea maybe that’s worth it! As he says, it’s relatively a small amount of money and no additional costs.

But it’s the fact that it hampers your ability to save and the risk if you don’t have a steady income that still put me off leasing. Also they tend to be very low mileage and basic spec.

I think it was looking at my GFs situation that really opened my eyes:

She bought a used 60 plate MINI Cooper back in 2013 with decent amount of options and only 15k miles on the clock. Cost her £11k from a main dealer.

This December she would have had it 4yrs and has spent £300 on out of warranty repairs (a replacement thermostat). 4 tyres at £320, 4 MOTs at £160, brake fluid service at £50 and one service for £200 (had a service pack from the dealer so didn’t pay for first two). Just about to replace all brake discs and pads for £360 from main dealer again. VED is £165 so £660

WBAC are offering her £5k, but could easily fetch £6k privately as it’s only done 40k.

So total cost if she sold it tomorrow would be £5k in depreciation over 4 yrs and 25k miles and about £2k in serving/maintenance/repairs/VED/MOT. £7k for 4yrs motoring.

Let’s say she’s dead lucky and gets lease deals like BH and finds a 1+23 & £250 per month that offers her similar spec car. She does this twice (so very lucky...!). That’s £12k. Nearly twice as much. Now of course everyone’s situation is different. Some people may say that they are passionate about their cars and the extra £6k over 4yrs is worth it for a new car. Fair enough I can understand that. £125 a month essentially, and that’s a very reasonable budget for enjoying yourself with hobbies, etc.

....Now add the £12k she saved each month by not having a lease....

I don’t know about you but that’s when I went...nah, sorry that’s too much money to give away just to get a new version of a car every couple of years, when a used version a couple of years old is just as good...!

She can keep the car and keep saving, sell and add the saving to buy a even better car at £18k. sell and buy a similar price car at £11k and pocket the £7k savings and start again.

Leasing...£0 saved, £12k lighter in the wallet, and have to look to start another £6k lease....the cycle continues....

DrEskimo! You're on here too?

We just had a long debate on detailing world about this topic with a chap who loved lease deals, before the thread got deleted as he got a bit shouty/insulting to us guys. We gave him some examples of how much cheaper a slightly used car would be to a brand new one - but he wouldn't accept it. Guess what - he messaged me afterwards. He found a good deal on a used Lexus and is buying that!

The point was, a new car has massive depreciation: typically 40% - 60% in the first 3 years. PCP and lease deals are just a way to pay that huge cost in monthly instalments.

I had an example in that thread of how the depreciation costs on a 3 year old RS6 is less than a new Nissan Qashqai for example.

We're witnessing a bubble in car finance at the moment and I think it's going to end badly for a lot of consumers, and for the lenders and manufacturers.

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DrEskimo · Oct 30, 2017

FaisalJ said:
DrEskimo! You're on here too?

We just had a long debate on detailing world about this topic with a chap who loved lease deals, before the thread got deleted as he got a bit shouty/insulting to us guys. We gave him some examples of how much cheaper a slightly used car would be to a brand new one - but he wouldn't accept it. Guess what - he messaged me afterwards. He found a good deal on a used Lexus and is buying that!

The point was, a new car has massive depreciation: typically 40% - 60% in the first 3 years. PCP and lease deals are just a way to pay that huge cost in monthly instalments.

I had an example in that thread of how the depreciation costs on a 3 year old RS6 is less than a new Nissan Qashqai for example.

We're witnessing a bubble in car finance at the moment and I think it's going to end badly for a lot of consumers, and for the lenders and manufacturers.

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Why hello FJ!

Haha that’s amazing...wonder why he didn’t message me that....? Oh yes I’m a troll apparently

richinsoton · Oct 30, 2017

Hi David, please keep buying brand new cars & getting bored of them soon after as it means people like me can buy them at 18 months almost 50% off. BTW thanks for taking the worst of the depreciation for me too!! (Harsh but fair!)

S32B · Oct 30, 2017

richinsoton said:
Hi David, please keep buying brand new cars & getting bored of them soon after as means people like me can buy them at 18 months almost 50% off. BTW thanks for taking the worst of the depreciation for me too!! (Harsh but fair!)

lol

But to be fair, for a lot of people buying new via a pcp can work out cheaper than buying a used one! and it's peace of mind knowing that most things are covered under warranty, so no unexpected big bills!

Using the OP as an example, young new mortgage and I assume doesn't have £22k sitting in his wallet to buy a car outright! So a new car on pcp will work out cheaper for him than say a £22k used S3 around 2.5 years old! Like I said above I paid £1k deposit and £382 for a brand new S3, I've just sold that for £20.5k to a dealer, so if he sold it to the OP for say £22k he would need a loan for £22k (let's say over 5 years) comes in at around £400 per month...that's more than what I was paying new! Yes the car will be his at the end, but the chances are he will switch it again before the 5 years is up, so he will still be paying around the £400 mark for a used car, he can get a new one for the same! Buying a car is good if you know for 100% that you will keep it for a long time and run it into the ground.

If you get a good discount and change at the right time you can switch cars for very little money:
To pay off my S3 cost me £21,200 2.5 years into a 4 year deal, because I paid it off before the end of August I got the August payment back, I didn't pay anything September or October, so those 3 payments saved plus what I sold the car for got me back up to to £21,646 in my hand, so I put the £21,200 back into my savings which gave me +£446 towards the A5, I only put £1k into the A5! So (man maths ) it cost me £554 to change cars to a brand new one and more expensive! If I had kept the S3 I would have needed, a big service, 4 new tyres, MOT, breakdown cover and a warranty...well over £554, in fact well over the £1k deposit I put down.

I can't find a used A5 coupe with my spec for less than what I got mine for new....but I did get 21.4% off it

Jassyo06 · Oct 30, 2017

richinsoton said:
Hi David, please keep buying brand new cars & getting bored of them soon after as it means people like me can buy them at 18 months almost 50% off. BTW thanks for taking the worst of the depreciation for me too!! (Harsh but fair!)

After all Someone has got to take the hand me downs lol

Jassyo06 · Oct 30, 2017

Personally speaking most people do whatever they want it's there money
I sold my 30 month old car for £23000,l owed nowt to Audi no negative equity, matter a fact l made £400 on the car if you can call it that,could have been more,but hey ho l glad to get rid of it,and yeah l paid a **** load of interest to Audi so what they supplied me with gorgeous car
The Mrs sister spends £100 bangers a week at the bingo with sweet FA to show for it lol so go figure
These threads always attract the same group of people who think renting cars are a waste of money, that's there opinion and are entitled to it, just like everyone we are all different

DrEskimo · Oct 30, 2017

jassyo06 said:
Personally speaking most people do whatever they want it's there money
I sold my 30 month old car for £23000,l owed nowt to Audi no negative equity, matter a fact l made £400 on the car if you can call it that,could have been more,but hey ho l glad to get rid of it,and yeah l paid a **** load of interest to Audi so what they supplied me with gorgeous car
The Mrs sister spends £100 bangers a week at the bingo with sweet FA to show for it lol so go figure
These threads always attract the same group of people who think renting cars are a waste of money, that's there opinion and are entitled to it, just like everyone we are all different

It’s no so much that I think it’s a waste of money mate, just that I can’t personally see that the extra money involved is worth it...I mean it’s not small amounts, often double the cost!

To me it’s a question of value. The new car thing and being the first owner didn’t mean much to me, and driving a S5 for 2yrs for £13k just isn’t value for money...I mean I can comfortably ‘afford it’ (although I think people have different definitions about that...) but it’s a crap deal in my eyes...!

Of course if you have so much disposable income that it doesn’t bother you, then I’m just a jealous git...

Jassyo06 · Oct 30, 2017

DrEskimo said:
It’s no so much that I think it’s a waste of money mate, just that I can’t personally see that the extra money involved is worth it...I mean it’s not small amounts, often double the cost!

To me it’s a question of value. The new car thing and being the first owner didn’t mean much to me, and driving a S5 for 2yrs for £13k just isn’t value for money...I mean I can comfortably ‘afford it’ (although I think people have different definitions about that...) but it’s a **** deal in my eyes...!

Of course if you have so much disposable income that it doesn’t bother you, then I’m just a jealous git...

If l could get to work without a car l would be far far better off as would most of us,l only got my first car 12 years ago because l had to get one for work as my circumstances changed, yeah of course there are times l grudge paying all that money but that doesn't last for long, l spend far more money on holidays than l do my car and some could say that's a waste of money.... Ye canny win really, but what I don't approve of irresponsible borrowing for a car ie paying £600/£700 plus a month for a £45k car etc etc that's just mental, same as l won't pay over £400 a month for a car because l stick to a budget.
As for PCH.... Done that, its OK if you want a plain Vanilla model and a lot people do that and it works great for them.....

DrEskimo · Oct 30, 2017

S32B said:
Using the OP as an example, young new mortgage and I assume doesn't have £22k sitting in his wallet to buy a car outright! So a new car on pcp will work out cheaper for him than say a £22k used S3 around 2.5 years old! Like I said above I paid £1k deposit and £382 for a brand new S3, I've just sold that for £20.5k to a dealer, so if he sold it to the OP for say £22k he would need a loan for £22k (let's say over 5 years) comes in at around £400 per month...that's more than what I was paying new! Yes the car will be his at the end, but the chances are he will switch it again before the 5 years is up, so he will still be paying around the £400 mark for a used car, he can get a new one for the same! Buying a car is good if you know for 100% that you will keep it for a long time and run it into the ground.

You missing out the value of the used car when you sell it.

PCP = £14,300 over 3yrs (1k down and £380 per month)
Used car = £8k (buy for £22k, sell for £15k 3yrs later + £1k in interest charges)

Used car is typically £6k cheaper.

Either:
a/ new car is worth £6k more than 2yr old version to you.
b/ believe used car will have £6k in repair bills
c/ believe the market for used cars will drop more, so that it's worth £6k less than I'm predicting.

It's probably a mixture of all three...add an extended warranty for say £2k and the saving is only £4k...value might drop a bit and you can't sell for £15k but £14k...now the difference is only £3k and a new car is worth the £3k difference to you, as it's only £80 extra per month...

I guess thats the value thing and we are all different. I still think the risk with debt (incidentally I would never personally get a loan for £22k for a used car for same reason!...maybe a quarter of it, but never the full amount!) and the implication it has on reducing my income, outweigh the pros of new car excitement, but that's me...

Interesting debate though

DrEskimo · Oct 30, 2017

jassyo06 said:
If l could get to work without a car l would be far far better off as would most of us,l only got my first car 12 years ago because l had to get one for work as my circumstances changed, yeah of course there are times l grudge paying all that money but that doesn't last for long, l spend far more money on holidays than l do my car and some could say that's a waste of money.... Ye canny win really, but what I don't approve of irresponsible borrowing for a car ie paying £600/£700 plus a month for a £45k car etc etc that's just mental, same as l won't pay over £400 a month for a car because l stick to a budget.
As for PCH.... Done that, its OK if you want a plain Vanilla model and a lot people do that and it works great for them.....

Absolutely..

Some of the things I've read on this forum are the very definition of financial suicide...

:sign omg:

richinsoton · Oct 30, 2017

I don't disagree that a PCP can work out cheaper for some but not for me unfortunately. Looking at the PCP example on the Audi website a brand new A3 SB 1.6 TDI would cost me more over 4yrs per month (without including the balloon on top as well), I'd have a smaller engine, be paying a higher APR, be restricted to 10k miles p.a which is no good for my usage & still wouldn't own the car at the end of the 4yrs whilst paying more for the privilege... The needing a big service & a set of tyres is an expected cost for me irrespective of new or used purchase.

I love the smell of a new car as much as the next person but I'm not going to pay over what I'm comfortable with monthly to run a car, which is what all of these threads boil down to in reality ( we all have different levels of how much you're comfortable / man maths / can justify)

richinsoton · Oct 30, 2017

jassyo06 said:
After all Someone has got to take the hand me downs lol

That's all right the car didn't smell too badly of the previous owners farts rofl!!!

Matt Titanium · Oct 30, 2017

jassyo06 said:
If l could get to work without a car l would be far far better off as would most of us,l only got my first car 12 years ago because l had to get one for work as my circumstances changed, yeah of course there are times l grudge paying all that money but that doesn't last for long, l spend far more money on holidays than l do my car and some could say that's a waste of money.... Ye canny win really, but what I don't approve of irresponsible borrowing for a car ie paying £600/£700 plus a month for a £45k car etc etc that's just mental, same as l won't pay over £400 a month for a car because l stick to a budget.
As for PCH.... Done that, its OK if you want a plain Vanilla model and a lot people do that and it works great for them.....

You don't need a brand new 300+BHP car to drive to work any more than I do. We buy them because we want them and we can.

We're all entitled to spend our hard earned on whatever we like but a PCP is a PCP. Limiting yourself to £400 a month is no different to £700 per month if you can afford it and are willing to spend that much. The terms are the same, the argument is the same.

PCP may get people into new, more expensive cars than they would have bought otherwise but it's just a clever marketing ploy by the manufacturers to make it easy to shift new cars to private "buyers" with a small deposit. They do however deflect attention to monthlies rather than overall cost and value.

All car showrooms should have a booth where it is compulsory to go into and do a little white wee before having a hard think about what you are doing. If you then still want to sign away what is often a large percentage of your disposable income for the next 3 or 4 years then crack on.

Jassyo06 · Oct 30, 2017

Matt Titanium said:
You don't need a brand new 300+BHP car to drive to work any more than I do. We buy them because we want them and we can.

We're all entitled to spend our hard earned on whatever we like but a PCP is a PCP. Limiting yourself to £400 a month is no different to £700 per month if you can afford it and are willing to spend that much. The terms are the same, the argument is the same.

PCP may get people into new, more expensive cars than they would have bought otherwise but it's just a clever marketing ploy by the manufacturers to make it easy to shift new cars to private "buyers" with a small deposit. They do however deflect attention to monthlies rather than overall cost and value.

All car showrooms should have a booth where it is compulsory to go into and do a little white wee before having a hard think about what you are doing. If you then still want to sign away what is often a large percentage of your disposable income for the next 3 or 4 years then crack on.

You misquoted me, l said paying £6/700 on a £45000 car, in isolation there's nowt wrong with paying £700 a month for the appropriate car if you can afford it, it's all relative well it should be

S32B · Oct 30, 2017

DrEskimo said:
You missing out the value of the used car when you sell it.

PCP = £14,300 over 3yrs (1k down and £380 per month)
Used car = £8k (buy for £22k, sell for £15k 3yrs later + £1k in interest charges)

Used car is typically £6k cheaper.

Either:
a/ new car is worth £6k more than 2yr old version to you.
b/ believe used car will have £6k in repair bills
c/ believe the market for used cars will drop more, so that it's worth £6k less than I'm predicting.

It's probably a mixture of all three...add an extended warranty for say £2k and the saving is only £4k...value might drop a bit and you can't sell for £15k but £14k...now the difference is only £3k and a new car is worth the £3k difference to you, as it's only £80 extra per month...

I guess thats the value thing and we are all different. I still think the risk with debt (incidentally I would never personally get a loan for £22k for a used car for same reason!...maybe a quarter of it, but never the full amount!) and the implication it has on reducing my income, outweigh the pros of new car excitement, but that's me...

Interesting debate though

I'm not missing out the value of the car at the end, but the chances of him getting to the end and not paying out each month to make the most of the cars value/or monthly saving are slim, as he changes his car so often, so what he sells it for will pay his finance off and he will start again, hence why I said:

S32B said:
Yes the car will be his at the end, but the chances are he will switch it again before the 5 years is up, so he will still be paying around the £400 mark for a used car, he can get a new one for the same! Buying a car is good if you know for 100% that you will keep it for a long time and run it into the ground.

So he will always be paying out for a used car if he keeps switching them. You know yourself a PCP deal on a new car is lower finance/payments than one on a used car. So anyone changing cars every 2-3 years is better off on a PCP deal...it's what they were designed for.

You said yourself you wouldn't get a loan for 22k, sadly not everyone has 15-20k to throw down on a car and then just get a loan for the rest, so a pcp is their only option if they want a nice/certain type of car. A loan to buy a used £22k S3 is more per month than what it would cost to get a new S3 on a pcp deal. I understand that the car is yours at the end, but the payments per month to achieve that in 3-5 years time are too much for some. 22k over 36 months = £647 per month, £22k over 60 months = £403, both are higher than what you can get a new S3 for on a pcp! So not only would his payment be higher per month and possible more than he can afford, he'd also have the added worry/chance/cost of any out of warranty repairs. At least on a pcp he knows exactly what it will cost him per month and then just switch it every few years.

DrEskimo said:
Used car is typically £6k cheaper.

My 67 plate A5 coupe S-line 2.0 petrol s-tronic cost me £29,300 with some options, find me a used one for less than that!

17 plates are going for that with not as many options. I know for a fact after 3 years I'll be switching it

S32B · Oct 30, 2017

Matt Titanium said:
You don't need a brand new 300+BHP car to drive to work any more than I do. We buy them because we want them and we can.

We're all entitled to spend our hard earned on whatever we like but a PCP is a PCP. Limiting yourself to £400 a month is no different to £700 per month if you can afford it and are willing to spend that much. The terms are the same, the argument is the same.

Exactly, it's all about individual choices, what you can afford, what you are willing to lose and what you want. If we all thought the same it would be a boring world!

I recently bought an Omega watch (I did post about it

), some of my friends say "Pfff it's a waste of money, it tells the time the same as a £15 Argos watch does". But these are the same friends who pay £12 per day for a pack of cigarettes 7 x £12 = £84 per week x 52 weeks = £4,368 per year! At the end of the year if I fell on hard times I could sell my watch! and I'll be healthier lol

so who is wasting money?!?!

DrEskimo · Oct 30, 2017

S32B said:
I'm not missing out the value of the car at the end, but the chances of him getting to the end and not paying out each month to make the most of the cars value/or monthly saving are slim, as he changes his car so often, so what he sells it for will pay his finance off and he will start again, hence why I said:

It wont just pay off the finance though, after 3yrs the finance left will only be about £8.5k, and you sell it for £15k. That's £6.5k back in your pocket. So the next time if he wants to buy another S3 for £22k again, you only need to borrow £15k....after that, he will only need to borrow £9k...so on and so forth. He can get the same car and pay less per month, or keep borrowing the same amount and get a more expensive car each time. Obviously there will be some extra costs involved, so it's more likely to be £4k saving, but the point remains.

That's where the savings against a PCP come in. You're not stuck paying the same amount every single deal, and are not left with £0 at the end when you want to change.

S32B said:
You said yourself you wouldn't get a loan for 22k, sadly not everyone has 15-2ok to throw down on a car and then just get a loan for the rest, so a pcp is their only option if they want a nice/certain type of car.

Then sorry, you cant afford that nice car...that's just the reality! My argument is getting yourself into £20k+ worth of debt is not the sensible solution to this problem! Buying a cheaper car is! A PCP is a car loan...but just on the depreciation and massive interest charges.

S32B said:
I recently bought an Omega watch (I did post about it ), some of my friends say "Pfff it's a waste of money, it tells the time the same as a £15 Argos watch does". But these are the same friends who pay £12 per day for a pack of cigarettes 7 x £12 = £84 per week x 52 weeks = £4,368 per year! At the end of the year if I fell on hard times I could sell my watch! and I'll be healthier lol so who is wasting money?!?!

Which is perfectly fine! I think you are confusing the part I am uneasy about. Its the debt bit that I have an issue with, not the money!

People want to spend £5k a year gambling their money or smoking, knock yourself out. If you want to buy a watch, go nuts, I'm sure you have more than earned it. It's exactly what we work hard for.

Should someone get a £15k loan to fund their smoking habit for 3yrs...or course not!

If you have the cash, and you are passionate about cars, then spend as much as you like I say. I just dont see the sense in taking on the risk of large amounts of debt to do it....my argument is take that monthly budget you are using on a lease/PCP, save it up and wait to buy it. New, used, whatever (although personally dont get the new car thing, as a used one is just as nice and will make my money go much further, but that's me...).

Take your S3 for example, how much did the PCP deal cost you. vs. how much would it have cost you if you paid in cash? I know for my S5, it was £13.k through the PCP, but would have only been £10k if I bought it with cash....

David McQueen · Oct 30, 2017

richinsoton said:
Hi David, please keep buying brand new cars & getting bored of them soon after as it means people like me can buy them at 18 months almost 50% off. BTW thanks for taking the worst of the depreciation for me too!! (Harsh but fair!)

If you look at it from my point of view unless i can buy the car outright theres no point financing an 18 month old car as the monthly's are the same if not more than taking on a brand new car. Also this will have eaten 18 month into the warranty which is a main thing for me when buying a car, did look at an older car but just a daft option when financing also if bought through audi approved around the 10% apr as appose to the standard 6%

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David McQueen · Oct 30, 2017

DrEskimo said:
You missing out the value of the used car when you sell it.

PCP = £14,300 over 3yrs (1k down and £380 per month)
Used car = £8k (buy for £22k, sell for £15k 3yrs later + £1k in interest charges)

Used car is typically £6k cheaper.

Either:
a/ new car is worth £6k more than 2yr old version to you.
b/ believe used car will have £6k in repair bills
c/ believe the market for used cars will drop more, so that it's worth £6k less than I'm predicting.

It's probably a mixture of all three...add an extended warranty for say £2k and the saving is only £4k...value might drop a bit and you can't sell for £15k but £14k...now the difference is only £3k and a new car is worth the £3k difference to you, as it's only £80 extra per month...

I guess thats the value thing and we are all different. I still think the risk with debt (incidentally I would never personally get a loan for £22k for a used car for same reason!...maybe a quarter of it, but never the full amount!) and the implication it has on reducing my income, outweigh the pros of new car excitement, but that's me...

Interesting debate though

Takes me a good 3 times readingg to understand all this but a get there in the end lol, can see where your coming from and it may be an option all depending on circumstances when the time comes, my mums crying out for a grandchild but manage to put that off for a few year so hopefully manage a few more

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S32B · Oct 30, 2017

DrEskimo said:
It wont just pay off the finance though, after 3yrs the finance left will only be about £8.5k, and you sell it for £15k. That's £6.5k back in your pocket. So the next time if he wants to buy another S3 for £22k again, you only need to borrow £15k....after that, he will only need to borrow £9k...so on and so forth. He can get the same car and pay less per month, or keep borrowing the same amount and get a more expensive car each time. Obviously there will be some extra costs involved, so it's more likely to be £4k saving, but the point remains.

That's where the savings against a PCP come in. You're not stuck paying the same amount every single deal, and are not left with £0 at the end when you want to change.

I understand all that but read his OP, his last 3 cars have been changed after 1 year, then 2 years and now back to 1 year, so he's never going to have paid enough finace off to then sell the car a year later and be up on the deal!

DrEskimo said:
Then sorry, you cant afford that nice car...that's just the reality! My argument is getting yourself into £20k+ worth of debt is not the sensible solution to this problem! Buying a cheaper car is! A PCP is a car loan...but just on the depreciation and massive interest charges.

But people can via a pcp! I don't want to blow £29k to pay for my A5 outright, but I've got one! Why? because it's on pcp at under £400 per month...but on the flip side I have no mortgage, we have no kids, I have a good job and so does my wife...the only debt in the house is the car, which we can easily afford so why not have it? If I lose my job I could buy it or I could go and buy another new smaller car, but at the moment it's money I can afford to blow on something I like without forking out a lump sum that I may need for something else.

DrEskimo said:
If you have the cash, and you are passionate about cars, then spend as much as you like I say. I just dont see the sense in taking on the risk of large amounts of debt to do it....my argument is take that monthly budget you are using on a lease/PCP, save it up and wait to buy it.

I see what you are saying and I used to think along the same lines, but if you saved £400 x 12 that is only £4,800 per year, so it would take 5 years to get a decent used S3! You may be dead long before then!

My entire view on life has changed over the last few years, my father in law hit 65 one Friday, the following Friday he retired, the Friday after he got told he had 3-6 months left to live, he managed 5 months. My own father went from knowing who I was to asking my mum "Who is is this gentleman?" when he saw me in under 6 months. It brings it all home that life is too short, if you can afford something then have it, tomorrow may never come, never mind next year! I'm not the only member on here (if he wants he will speak up) he went through a similar thing which changed his view on life.

DrEskimo said:
Take your S3 for example, how much did the PCP deal cost you. vs. how much would it have cost you if you paid in cash? I know for my S5, it was £13.k through the PCP, but would have only been £10k if I bought it with cash....

But how many people have or want to pay out £30k cash in one hit? obviously you save on interest and it's fine if you have another £30k sitting in the bank for other things, but most people don't! They set a limit as to what they can afford to lose each month on a car and get the best they can for that limit.

The OP has just said himself:

David McQueen said:
If you look at it from my point of view unless i can buy the car outright theres no point financing an 18 month old car as the monthly's are the same if not more than taking on a brand new car. Also this will have eaten 18 month into the warranty which is a main thing for me when buying a car, did look at an older car but just a daft option when financing also if bought through audi approved around the 10% apr as appose to the standard 6%

Which was entirely my point!

If he can afford a new pcp car now, why should he make do with an older car until he's saved the cash to buy a new one outright?!?

Why do people pay £1,000 a month mortgage for a nice house when they could stay at home and save that money for 10 years, then make do with a small flat for £120,000 bought with cash! A big mortgage is a greater gamble than a car for £30k! People do it because it's what they want and it's the only way they are able to afford it. Everything you do in life is a risk

I think we need to agree to disagree

DrEskimo · Oct 30, 2017

S32B said:
I understand all that but read his OP, his last 3 cars have been changed after 1 year, then 2 years and now back to 1 year, so he's never going to have paid enough finace off to then sell the car a year later and be up on the deal!

Yea and he's not up on the deal on the PCP either...he's rolling £4k debt into another deal..!

I think we do have to agree to disagree as I think we are going around in circles mate

The thing is, this is all well and great talking about living for today, and getting what you want now, but when things aren't great, you are up a creek without a paddle...I want to ensure that when I hit tough times, I have plenty saved and no debts that I can ride it out without having to make sacrifices. There's too much of this 'it wont happen to me mentally' and it's a massive risk. People are not planning for the worst and it hits them the hardest. 2008 hit everyone, illnesses can strike anytime, job security is an all time low. Personal debt is at a record high and people are putting less in their pensions than the spend on renting new cars, its just madness to me!

S32B said:
Why do people pay £1,000 a month mortgage for a nice house when they could stay at home and save that money for 10 years, then make do with a small flat for £120,000 bought with cash! A big mortgage is a greater gamble than a car for £30k! People do it because it's what they want and it's the only way they are able to afford it. Everything you do in life is a risk

NOOO! This is completely different! A house appreciates! Its an investment and makes you money!

£30k debt on a asset that is guaranteed to lose 50% of its value is not the same as a mortgage, which can see you triple your original deposit in just 3yrs!

David McQueen · Oct 30, 2017

DrEskimo said:
Yea and he's not up on the deal on the PCP either...he's rolling £4k debt into another deal..!

I think we do have to agree to disagree as I think we are going around in circles mate

The thing is, this is all well and great talking about living for today, and getting what you want now, but when things aren't great, you are up a creek without a paddle...I want to ensure that when I hit tough times, I have plenty saved and no debts that I can ride it out without having to make sacrifices. There's too much of this 'it wont happen to me mentally' and it's a massive risk. People are not planning for the worst and it hits them the hardest. 2008 hit everyone, illnesses can strike anytime, job security is an all time low. Personal debt is at a record high and people are putting less in their pensions than the spend on renting new cars, its just madness to me!

NOOO! This is completely different! A house appreciates! Its an investment and makes you money!

£30k debt on a asset that is guaranteed to lose 50% of its value is not the same as a mortgage, which can see you triple your original deposit in just 3yrs!

Just to mention btw i have no intentions of carrying any negative into the new deal of a car in the future will be waiting till a can VT or wait another year maybe 18 month and try break even on it. My main point was highlighting that i always want to change cars, previous 2 cars i was living with my parents so money wasnt much of a problem then, but now i have my own house and a lot of outgoings each month so wouldnt consider wasting more money for just a change when i do have a perfectly great car which a lot of people am sure would love to have. Was talking with the mrs tonight and she pointed out my car payments are more than my mortgage, i did not reply to this by the way lol!

PFA

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DrEskimo · Oct 30, 2017

David McQueen said:
Just to mention btw i have no intentions of carrying any negative into the new deal of a car in the future will be waiting till a can VT or wait another year maybe 18 month and try break even on it. My main point was highlighting that i always want to change cars, previous 2 cars i was living with my parents so money wasnt much of a problem then, but now i have my own house and a lot of outgoings each month so wouldnt consider wasting more money for just a change when i do have a perfectly great car which a lot of people am sure would love to have. Was talking with the mrs tonight and she pointed out my car payments are more than my mortgage, i did not reply to this by the way lol!

PFA

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Haha...yea probably best not to reply

All I will say is I was exactly in the same position. Looked at the monthlies and thought it was affordable and meant I could drive a stupidly expensive car that I would never dream of owning...but now I’ve done it and worked out the cost and where it’s left me...I won’t be doing it again.

For me personally, it was a stupid decision and I want that £13k back! Others might say it’s worth it. I guess you’ve got to decide what works for you, but hopefully I’ve explained why and outlined my thinking behind it to help you decide.

As you say it’s a lovely car and exactly what I would have!

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