How likely am I able to change car after 30 months?

SJR88 · Aug 30, 2017

When I took out my PCP contract, I was told that it would be best to get a 50 month contract to keep my payments down because after 30 months I’d be able to change the car or just give it back. I didn’t quite trust the salesman (for a number of reasons), so I checked with the head of business and he said it can vary, however the 30 month mark is usually when people can do this.

Looking at my contract now, by the time I reach the 30 month mark, my car won’t even be worth enough to cover what I’ll owe, judging by what it’s being valued at today (this will be around 12 months from now).

Does anybody have any experience with this?

Daggerit · Aug 31, 2017

If you've paid off half of the total value of your PCP contract then you're able to hand the car back in what's called a voluntary termination I believe. This usually happens not long after the midway mark of your contract but as they've rightly said it depends on APR rates and all sorts of I'm not mistaken.

Easy way to find out is to just phone the finance and ask if you qualify for the termination yet. Just bear in mind they'll charge you the full whack for excess mileage and any damage, as well as a fee of around £50 or so for collecting the car usually.

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cuke2u · Aug 31, 2017

If you hand the car over to a Audi dealership I think there isn't a charge, but yes it has to be over 50% before you can hand the car back. I just gave my A3 to the dealership before the 50% mark and they sold it on and paid off the finance..

SJR88 · Aug 31, 2017

Thanks for the advice everyone. I think I got in a bit of a panic because I feel like the car isn’t keeping it’s value as much as in need it to haha. I’ll give Audi Finance a call and see where I stand.

I’ll definately be getting a lease next time.

/dev/null · Sep 1, 2017

Well, a PCP is really just a lease without the balloon payment at the end. However given the option to VT or just hand it back at the end, providing you get a reasonable deal at the end, there isn't a great deal in it to be fair. When I bought mine the leasing deals were far more expensive per month than the PCP with Audi (through CarWow). I have a 4 year PCP deal - when it's about 50% (probably sometime into the third year) I'll just give it back.

SJR88 · Sep 1, 2017

/dev/null said:
Well, a PCP is really just a lease without the balloon payment at the end. However given the option to VT or just hand it back at the end, providing you get a reasonable deal at the end, there isn't a great deal in it to be fair. When I bought mine the leasing deals were far more expensive per month than the PCP with Audi (through CarWow). I have a 4 year PCP deal - when it's about 50% (probably sometime into the third year) I'll just give it back.

There’s a company called Stable Lease, you may have heard of them. They have some really good deals. I’ve seen the A4 S Line and BE for around £199-£230 per month, 1.4 S Tronic on offer a few times. The deposits are usually around 6 months up front on a 24 month deal. Currently I’m paying £370 (I paid £2300 deposit) on a 4 year deal. I always regret it when I see these deals on Stable Lease because they actually have excellent reviews too.

I intend to just give mine back too, unfortunately I was misinformed by my dealer when I got it. I thought I’d only have to keep it til the 30 month mark, however Audi Finance have informed me I’ll have to keep it til around the 40 month mark if I don’t want it to cost me.

gone · Sep 1, 2017

The lease (PCP) must legally state the amount you must pay (50%) that you must have paid to enable you to hand the car back.
Be prepared to be strong and point out your rights, Black Horse tried to get me to sign paperwork, this would have made me liable for any repairs, I then pointed out that it is I who terminate the agreement, not them, I gave them a date when the vehicle insurance would cease and promptly dropped the car at BCA Manchester.
It's an easy process but they will try and trick you into signing paperwork, stick to your guns.
My car has gone and I have heard nothing more, my credit record has been appended with a 'VT' marker on the final payment, Black Horse may decline in future? If so, their loss imho.
Good luck, just stand your ground, plenty of advice on the net, legal beagles VT, google that, it will help.

SJR88 · Sep 1, 2017

Ah ok thanks a lot for your advice! I’ll look into it properly over the weekend. Unfortunately every time they assured me the 30 month mark meant I could simply give the car back, it was always verbally. I should have got something in writing. Anyway, I’ll have a proper look into it and I’ll update the thread if I get anywhere with it.

BarryG79 · Sep 1, 2017

I used the voluntary termination clause of my last PCP deal. 49month deal and had paid 50% by month 38. Check your paper work as it should show something similar to this.

It's all pretty straight forward, providing it's in good condition on hand over.

Re Stable Vehicle Contracts, I contacted them when I got my S3. Very helpful and provided good info, unfortunately as they are part of a main dealer network (Swansway?) they don't always have access to the best deals for leasing. But as a main dealer there is no broker admin fee to pay either.

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Muttley75 · Sep 1, 2017

I took a 4 year PCP and was told the amount owed on the car vs it's market value usually breaks even at around the 30 month mark - perhaps that is what the salesman was referring to and one of you got your wires crossed?

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SJR88 · Sep 1, 2017

BarryG79 said:
I used the voluntary termination clause of my last PCP deal. 49month deal and had paid 50% by month 38. Check your paper work as it should show something similar to this.

It's all pretty straight forward, providing it's in good condition on hand over.

Re Stable Vehicle Contracts, I contacted them when I got my S3. Very helpful and provided good info, unfortunately as they are part of a main dealer network (Swansway?) they don't always have access to the best deals for leasing. But as a main dealer there is no broker admin fee to pay either.

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Thanks for the advice, I’ll take a look at my paperwork.

I didn’t realise that Stable is part of Swansway. I’ll definitely look into a lease next time though, I just feel like it’s less commitment.

SJR88 · Sep 1, 2017

Muttley75 said:
I took a 4 year PCP and was told the amount owed on the car vs it's market value usually breaks even at around the 30 month mark - perhaps that is what the salesman was referring to and one of you got your wires crossed?

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Yeh this might actually be the case. I think at the rate it’s losing value, I don’t think mine is going to break even around the 30 month mark. I’ll probably owe just over 21,000 at that point and it’s barely worth that today.

SJR88 · Sep 2, 2017

@BarryG79 I’ve just taken a look at my paperwork, and unless I’m being stupid and missing something, then paying half the total amount payable will actually be more than 49 payments that I’d agreed to. So where you personally had to get to month 38, I’m having to get to the very end of my contract.

Kestrel · Sep 2, 2017

Keep in mind that the 50% refers to 50% of the amount the finance company paid out. Which will probably be alot less than the `total amount payable`.

SJR88 · Sep 2, 2017

Kestrel said:
Keep in mind that the 50% refers to 50% of the amount the finance company paid out. Which will probably be alot less than the `total amount payable`.

Ah right, so in my case I need to pay half of £18,347.98? Or am I just being stupid and still not getting it? Haha

I’m definitely still not getting it haha. I’ve written to the Head of Business for some clarification anyway.

cuke2u · Sep 2, 2017

I seem to remember with it is half of the total amount of the price of the car, not half what you pay..

BarryG79 · Sep 2, 2017

For example:

If car cost was £40,000 and you paid £2,000 deposit your finance to borrow would be £38,000. Then if the total interest over the term say 48mths was £4,000 the total payable would be £42,000, still with me?

So once you had paid half of the total due which is £21,000 the car can be returned under voluntary termination clause.

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SJR88 · Sep 2, 2017

Ah ok thank you for this, I fully understand now.

gone · Sep 2, 2017

Clearly, on the front page of the paperwork, the copy you signed, it should state your rights to termination along with the amount in figures. Are you sure it's a PCP HP agreement and not a lease type?

cuke2u · Sep 2, 2017

BarryG79 said:
For example:

If car cost was £40,000 and you paid £2,000 deposit your finance to borrow would be £38,000. Then if the total interest over the term say 48mths was £4,000 the total payable would be £42,000, still with me?

So once you had paid half of the total due which is £21,000 the car can be returned under voluntary termination clause.

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You explained it far better than I did...

pjeffe9172 · Sep 5, 2017

When I took out my PCP the salesperson in the Audi main dealer said that if I needed to terminate to take it to them rather than the finance company as I would likely get a better deal.

/dev/null · Sep 5, 2017

SJR88 said:
There’s a company called Stable Lease, you may have heard of them. They have some really good deals. I’ve seen the A4 S Line and BE for around £199-£230 per month, 1.4 S Tronic on offer a few times. The deposits are usually around 6 months up front on a 24 month deal. Currently I’m paying £370 (I paid £2300 deposit) on a 4 year deal. I always regret it when I see these deals on Stable Lease because they actually have excellent reviews too.

I had a quick look - for mine, which is a 3.0 TDi S-Line Quattro:

Personal 36 mths 6+35 10000 p/a £376.00 inc. VAT

That's 6*376 = £2256 deposit, plus 376 a month for 10k miles over 36 months. Split your deposit over 36 months and you're at £440 for 10k a year over 3 years.

I pay £450 for 18k miles a year over 4 years, with the option to VT at the 50% mark, and only had to put down a £500 deposit. I'd imagine if you do it all like-for-like there really isn't a great deal in it - it was just attractive to me to have only a £500 deposit.

SJR88 · Sep 5, 2017

/dev/null said:
I had a quick look - for mine, which is a 3.0 TDi S-Line Quattro:

Personal 36 mths 6+35 10000 p/a £376.00 inc. VAT

That's 6*376 = £2256 deposit, plus 376 a month for 10k miles over 36 months. Split your deposit over 36 months and you're at £440 for 10k a year over 3 years.

I pay £450 for 18k miles a year over 4 years, with the option to VT at the 50% mark, and only had to put down a £500 deposit. I'd imagine if you do it all like-for-like there really isn't a great deal in it - it was just attractive to me to have only a £500 deposit.

Yeh I think it all depends on your individual circumstances, what mileage etc. I didn’t exactly do like for like when I applied for a quote with Stable yesterday. Mine is currently a fairly basic S Line 2.0 diesel (150) and I applied for a 1.4 petrol (150) Black Edition A4 quote. It came back at £340 per month with zero deposit (8,000 miles which I currently have and 24 months). I’m currently paying £369 and paid £2300 deposit (49 months), so I just find a lease more appealing.

The general quotes aren’t usually amazing, but now and again they have deals on certain cars, as I mentioned before, so it’s just getting the deal while it’s on, but apparently you can reserve that deal months before you’re ready to get a new car.

I just don’t like the commitment of my PCP right now, it’s my fault for not reading the paperwork properly but I was advised by 2 Audi staff that at/around the 30 month mark I can just give it back without it costing me anything.

SJR88 · Sep 5, 2017

Taztastic said:
Clearly, on the front page of the paperwork, the copy you signed, it should state your rights to termination along with the amount in figures. Are you sure it's a PCP HP agreement and not a lease type?

Yeh it’s defintely PCP, I thought the pic I attached was that section where it states the VT rights with the £18,000 amount?

SJR88 · Sep 5, 2017

pjeffe9172 said:
When I took out my PCP the salesperson in the Audi main dealer said that if I needed to terminate to take it to them rather than the finance company as I would likely get a better deal.

I’ve emailed the head of business regarding being misinformed and hopefully he will provide some clarification and a solution. It’d be nice if they just bought it back but that’s probably unlikely haha.

cuke2u · Sep 5, 2017

I assume the dealership might be thinking there could be some equity in the car instead of just handing it back?

gone · Sep 5, 2017

SJR88 said:
Yeh it’s defintely PCP, I thought the pic I attached was that section where it states the VT rights with the £18,000 amount?

Oops, my mistake, your'e right

SJR88 · Sep 5, 2017

cuke2u said:
I assume the dealership might be thinking there could be some equity in the car instead of just handing it back?

Possibly! Hopefully I’ll hear back from the dealership soon because the more I think about it, it’s annoying me because I’ve been misled. It’s just a shame I don’t have anything in writing.

Kestrel · Sep 5, 2017

SJR88 said:
Possibly! Hopefully I’ll hear back from the dealership soon because the more I think about it, it’s annoying me because I’ve been misled. It’s just a shame I don’t have anything in writing.

Kindly let us know how you get on.

SJR88 · Sep 5, 2017

Kestrel said:
Kindly let us know how you get on.

I will do! It’s been two days with no reply but I’ll give the Head of Business til Thursday I think. I know he’s probably busy but an acknowledgment would be nice.

SJR88 · Sep 8, 2017

I’ve spoken with the Head of Business. He’s advised that there’s a deficit of £3790 in my contract because I’m only 17 months into my 49 month contract. He’s also advised that they could look at a PCH contract on an A3 because I’m not happy with the term of my contract (initially thinking I could just give the car back after 30 months).

It’s a shame I didn’t get that in writing from the salesman (who no longer works there) as it’s just my word. One thing that may help, is that there’s a review on Google that mentions the salesman who sold me the car, saying that he doesn’t seem to understand how the finance works. Do you think I’ll benefit from asking Audi UK to investigate whether there were similar complaints to mine? Maybe that’s why he no longer works there.

SJR88 · Sep 10, 2017

Update:

Everyone’s advice would be appreciated as quickly as possible please!

I’ve been in to Audi today and they’ve offered to take the car back and erase any negative equity, which is around £4000 according to them - this providing they move me to a new contract of 36 months on a A3 Black Edition 1.5 tfsi S Tronic, £500 deposit & £374 (plus vat) a month.

I’d appreciate your opinions, as it’s really stressing me out and I don’t know what to do.

AJB Audi · Sep 10, 2017

SJR88 said:
Update:

Everyone’s advice would be appreciated as quickly as possible please!

I’ve been in to Audi today and they’ve offered to take the car back and erase any negative equity, which is around £4000 according to them - this providing they move me to a new contract of 36 months on a A3 Black Edition 1.5 tfsi S Tronic, £500 deposit & £374 (plus vat) a month.

I’d appreciate your opinions, as it’s really stressing me out and I don’t know what to do.

Surely the easiest way is to look purely at what the cost will be going forward for the different options.

Option 1 is to keep your current car and run it to the end of the contract. Trawling back through this thread you appear to be around 18 months into a 50 month contract? So you have approx. 32 months x £369 = £11,808 still to pay for nearly three years of continued ownership of current car.

Option 2 is a new A3 Black Edition on a three year deal. Is the new monthly price really '+ VAT' ? (£374 + 20% VAT would be £448.80 per month)

Assuming it is '+ VAT' then your payments to have the A3 for the next three years would be £500 deposit + (36 x £448.80) = £16,657

If it's £374 inc VAT per month then the next three years would cost you £500 deposit + (36 x £374) = £13,964

How keen you are to have the A3 over your current car? If it really is £374 + VAT per month that's approx £4,500 more over the next three years compared with keeping your current car, whereas if it's VAT inclusive it's approx £2,000 more over the next three years to swap. Current car will presumably be out of warranty for the final year whereas you'd have a warranty for the full term if you change.

Your money, your choice.

ub7rm · Sep 10, 2017

Why is it stressing you out? If you don't like your current car and do like the A3 then by all means go for it. If you're stressed out about some sort of concern about being in negative equity / tied in then you will be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

A new car has a huge depreciation hit as soon as you drive it away, it takes time to recover from that. It sounds like you have been offered a lease (from the +vat comment). These tend to be stricter about the period, i.e. if you commit to two years then you are commited to two years.

For what its worth I bought my last S4 on a PCP over 4 years. At around 30 months they called me up out of the blue and offered me a brand new one they had in stock and after some negotiation I had no additional deposit to pay and the monthlies are (litteraly) a few pennies less than I had been paying. So it does seem as if 30 months is the tipping point where you move into positive equity on the car and they can't wait to get in touch and sell you a new one.

SJR88 · Sep 10, 2017

AJB Audi said:
Surely the easiest way is to look purely at what the cost will be going forward for the different options.

Option 1 is to keep your current car and run it to the end of the contract. Trawling back through this thread you appear to be around 18 months into a 50 month contract? So you have approx. 32 months x £369 = £11,808 still to pay for nearly three years of continued ownership of current car.

Option 2 is a new A3 Black Edition on a three year deal. Is the new monthly price really '+ VAT' ? (£374 + 20% VAT would be £448.80 per month)

Assuming it is '+ VAT' then your payments to have the A3 for the next three years would be £500 deposit + (36 x £448.80) = £16,657

If it's £374 inc VAT per month then the next three years would cost you £500 deposit + (36 x £374) = £13,964

How keen you are to have the A3 over your current car? If it really is £374 + VAT per month that's approx £4,500 more over the next three years compared with keeping your current car, whereas if it's VAT inclusive it's approx £2,000 more over the next three years to swap. Current car will presumably be out of warranty for the final year whereas you'd have a warranty for the full term if you change.

Your money, your choice.

Thanks very much for taking the time to provide all that info! It is plus VAT, so you’re right it will be around £448 per month, however I’ve been quoted £456.42 per month, so I need to question this. I also need to look into not paying a deposit as I really don’t have it, and I’m getting a quote of £466 per month on Audi Finance website for 10,000 miles (no deposit), whereas the quote from the dealership was 8,000 miles.

SJR88 · Sep 10, 2017

ub7rm said:
Why is it stressing you out? If you don't like your current car and do like the A3 then by all means go for it. If you're stressed out about some sort of concern about being in negative equity / tied in then you will be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

A new car has a huge depreciation hit as soon as you drive it away, it takes time to recover from that. It sounds like you have been offered a lease (from the +vat comment). These tend to be stricter about the period, i.e. if you commit to two years then you are commited to two years.

For what its worth I bought my last S4 on a PCP over 4 years. At around 30 months they called me up out of the blue and offered me a brand new one they had in stock and after some negotiation I had no additional deposit to pay and the monthlies are (litteraly) a few pennies less than I had been paying. So it does seem as if 30 months is the tipping point where you move into positive equity on the car and they can't wait to get in touch and sell you a new one.

Ah thanks for this. The reason it’s stressing me out is because I’ve been misled by a salesman at the dealership with my current contract, so I’m just stressed about making sure it’s all OK this time.

Also you’re right, I was initially quoted for a PCH and I’ve just noticed, I have two separate documents, and the monthly payment of £448, I thought was PCP is actually for PCH. The PCP quote actually comes in at £456.42. Both 36 months and 8,000 miles

ub7rm · Sep 10, 2017

I have a feeling the 30 month comment the salesman made was not intended as a contractual promise but rather a guide as to when you will have broken even and put some positive equity into the car. If there is nothing immediately bothering you about the car you've got I'd say don't stress, take a step back and think about all your options. The numbers you're quoting above don't sound that great to me to be honest. Nothing bad will happen if you take another month to explore things, and you don't want to rush into anything.

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SJR88 · Sep 10, 2017

ub7rm said:
I have a feeling the 30 month comment the salesman made was not intended as a contractual promise but rather a guide as to when you will have broken even and put some positive equity into the car. If there is nothing immediately bothering you about the car you've got I'd say don't stress, take a step back and think about all your options. The numbers you're quoting above don't sound that great to me to be honest. Nothing bad will happen if you take another month to explore things, and you don't want to rush into anything.

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Thanks. You’re right, I don’t need to rush into anything, I’m just generally not comfortable in a contract that I was misled into. I went in asking for a 24 month PCH, salesman recommended 49 month PCP on the basis that “you can just hand it back at the 30 month mark and go to BMW or Mercedes without any charges”.

AJB Audi · Sep 10, 2017

ub7rm said:
I have a feeling the 30 month comment the salesman made was not intended as a contractual promise but rather a guide as to when you will have broken even and put some positive equity into the car. If there is nothing immediately bothering you about the car you've got I'd say don't stress, take a step back and think about all your options. The numbers you're quoting above don't sound that great to me to be honest. Nothing bad will happen if you take another month to explore things, and you don't want to rush into anything.

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These are wise words and, being honest and hopefully constructive, if the OP is going to be challenged finding the requested £500 deposit then surely the last thing to be doing is signing up to a new deal that will cost you an additional £4,500 over the next three years compared with keeping your current car?

Your Audi dealer may be spinning them effectively letting you walk away from your current deal as some magnanimous gesture, but if it's tied in to you paying more than £16,500 to rent an A3 for three years then it doesn't look such a great deal? I'm sure you could get a far better lease deal on an A3 if it wasn't tied to your current car.

BarryG79 · Sep 10, 2017

I'd be checking with them how the £4k negative equity is being covered, they won't be writing it off as you will be paying it somewhere? If this is a PCH then I don't think it can be added in as part of the same finance agreement. More than likely it might be a separate personal loan agreement, if so then check the interest rate being charged as high street bank would save you ££ probably.

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How likely am I able to change car after 30 months?

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