Sports Cats - engine management light

Whodafunk

Whodafunk

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So today I had a full stainless exhaust fitted including some stainless sport cats at Tony Banks in Leeds. Very pleased with their work and it sounds superb.

However... on my way home, as I gave it some beans I got an engine management light. I assumed this would be to do with the emissions given it now had high flow sports cats. They assured me though that I wouldnt get any emission problems and unfortunately they were closed by the time I got home. I will ring them tomorrow for a solution.

I scanned it with VCDS and got the following faults. Are these relating to the readings after the sports cats?

008598 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1
P2196 - 002 - Signal too High (Rich)
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 97807 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2016.06.21
Time: 14:16:56

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2829 /min
Load: 52.5 %
Speed: 110.0 km/h
Temperature: 84.0°C
Temperature: 30.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.970 V

001072 - Catalyst System; Bank 2
P0430 - 002 - Efficiency Below Threshold
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 97818 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2016.06.21
Time: 14:23:35

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2683 /min
Load: 32.1 %
Speed: 104.0 km/h
Temperature: 84.0°C
Temperature: 27.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.843 V

008344 - Post-Catalyst Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Correction; Bank 2
P2098 - 002 - Too Lean - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 97823 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2016.06.21
Time: 14:26:56

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1152 /min
Load: 35.7 %
Speed: 44.0 km/h
Temperature: 84.0°C
Temperature: 29.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.843 V
 
MICHAEL PARKER said:
You will need a stage 2 map .
Click to expand...

Sorry what's one of these? I mean I know what a remap is but are you saying the ecu now needs reprogramming to look for different readings, rather than a performance remap?

Where do I get one of these?
 
Will o2 spacers work after the sports cats to fool the ecu into thinking its performing like a standard cat?
 
It needs mapping to suit the exhaust as advised, otherwise the expense just for the noise would seem a bit ott IMHO :)
 
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Cheers for the link smurf. I'll see what they say when I ring them tomorrow morning but this is my immediate plan and may consider a remap further down the line.

In the meantime, here's a video I made of the difference between the stock vs stainless

 
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Do love the sound of a 3.2 with a sports exhaust, if you do buy the spacer then install it with the cable in the top of the lambda facing the front of the car, that way the gas has to kind of do a U turn to go into the sensor therefore removing the sensor well out the way of the gas flow if you get me.
 
audi upgrades
Yeah I get you, thanks. I fitted some to a 406 Coupe V6 to deal with the ageing precat fault and that's how I did it too
 
Last edited:
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OK so I spoke to him this morning. He basically said that sometimes the engine management light can come on but it won't affect the way the car runs at all. It will still pass emissions and the car shouldn't adjust the fueling. I told him that's what it's doing though as is the case with any petrol car surely?

Apparently it's had two oxygen spacers after the cat fitted when they did the job. They said the next option is either wire wool in the spacers or a remap to reprogram the ecu.

Are there any issues driving the car as it is until it's resolved?
 
Jacked the car up today, the lambda sensors after the sports cat are positioned in angled spacers at a 90 degree angle. I removed each of the sensors and put some stainless wire wool inside each of the spacers. I took the car for a spirited drive pulling nicely up to the red line with ease and I am happy to say that no engine management light came on. I will see how it goes for the next few days but hopefully this has worked.

What I did notice however in neutral the car would only rev to about 4000 rpm. This had no effect on normal driving so I am not sure why it is doing this. Could it be down to too much wire wool? I used a small ball about the size of a 50 pence piece.
 
4000 revs in neutral is the rev limit set by the ecu so you can't detonate the engine , so nothing to do with your wire wool.
nice sounding car , well done
 
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Ah that makes sense, thanks. And yes very happy with the sound. It now sounds like it should have when it left the factory
 
Ok so the wire wool solved the issue for a day or two. The EML came back on today and I've got the following two faults logged...

008598 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1
P2196 - 002 - Signal too High (Rich)

008344 - Post-Catalyst Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Correction; Bank 2
P2098 - 002 - Too Lean - MIL ON

Any ideas? it appears the ECU is registering incorrect fueling still, but I dont know why. I've contacted Revo for information on a stage 2 remap for a permanent solution.
 
But one of the two remaining faults appear to relate to pre cat problems of a too lean or rich mixture. Does this mean a vac leak or faulty upstream sensor?

First fault says 'B1S1'. That means Bank 1 Sensor 1...in other words the upstream sensor before the cat on bank 1. It detected a very rich condition.(P2196) why?

P2098 refers to the fuel trim being too lean on bank 2. The ecu is trying to compensate a rich condition by taking away fuel. There's a limit on how much it can do this. It's usually around 30% reduction before the ecu runs out of room (in it's software) to do any more. Again why?
 
I am not sure tbh but if it's only just started since you had the exhaust fitted then my guess would be it's the exhaust setting off the error codes , of course I could be totally wrong .
 
Yes exactly, it has to have been caused by the new exhaust. I'm inclined to ring Tony Banks again to get them to look at it. Emission faults post sports cat I can understand but fueling issues pre cat should not be happening
 
I have just had a full turbo back BCS system fitted and although I am expecting the eml to come on due to the car requiring a re map it has no warning lights as of yet , hope you get it sorted mate as I know how frustrating these things can be .
 
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MICHAEL PARKER said:
I have just had a full turbo back BCS system fitted and although I am expecting the eml to come on due to the car requiring a re map it has no warning lights as of yet , hope you get it sorted mate as I know how frustrating these things can be .
Click to expand...

Nige at BCS told me that often you do not see the warning light with a BCS
 
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Just read on another forum that a bad PCV can cause the P2196 fault. What's the PCV?

Are there any issues driving the car with this fault while I get to the bottom of it? It's still driving superb, better than ever intact, bar the EML
 
I have a decat on mine and my light came on after about 400miles, I turned it off and it hasn't come back since!
 
MICHAEL PARKER said:
I have just had a full turbo back BCS system fitted and although I am expecting the eml to come on due to the car requiring a re map it has no warning lights as of yet , hope you get it sorted mate as I know how frustrating these things can be .
Click to expand...

prt57 said:
Nige at BCS told me that often you do not see the warning light with a BCS
Click to expand...

BCS sports cat here, I clear the code for MOT time but passes emissions perfectly fine. It soon comes on again after a few days.
 
What codes are people getting though?I'm confused by the most recent faults showing rich readings BEFORE the sports cats - P2196. Anyone else got this fault?
 
I took some live readings today, do these mean anything to anyone? I can see a distinct difference in bank 1 and 2, which would explain the faults.





 
Ah OK will check that thanks.

I've just been out looking for potential vacuum leaks. I found a 'bung' at the back of the engine (circled in the picture). Does anyone know if this is standard or has this been added? Any 3.2 owners that can check theirs?

 
Ok so I've done so more readings. First I checked bank 032 and bank 033. I understand that 032 is long term fuel trim and 033 is short term fuel trim info (032 and 033 readings aren't that far apart as I've been routinely clearing the EML).

So, I did some measuring with the fault still active on the dash. Group 032 was showing zero for everything and 033 still showed a high reading for bank 1 sensor 1...



Then after clearing the codes short term info was showing a reading closer to zero...



I then removed the MAF and cleaned it with some MAF sensor cleaner. Readings have now changed...



Also at idle the MAF is now reading 3.53 g/s (it was 5.19 g/s before I cleaned it). Not sure what the correct MAF values should be at idle but it's obviously affected it. Maybe the MAF was dirty or is on it's way out...

 
Ok, so I'm still getting the EML after changing the fuel filter/pressure regulator. I have the following faults all relating to lambda's B1S1 B2S1, B1S2 & B2S2

008344 - Post-Catalyst Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Correction; Bank 2
P2098 - 002 - Too Lean
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 98569 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2016.07.24
Time: 06:18:05

008598 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1
P2196 - 002 - Signal too High (Rich) - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 10100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 98570 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2016.07.24

008600 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B2 S1
P2198 - 002 - Signal too High (Rich)
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 98581 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2016.07.24
Time: 16:44:13

008816 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Signal B1 S2
P2270 - 001 - too Lean - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 98587 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2016.07.24
Time: 16:55:33

000311 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S2
P0137 - 002 - Signal too Low - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 2
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 98587 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2016.07.24
Time: 16:55:33


Any ideas what could be causing this? Both post cat sensors are now in spacers (with wire wool) after the sports cat. I can understand anomolies with the post cat sensors due to the sports cat, but why is it showing rich on both banks prior to the cat?

I've taken some live readings of fuel trim if anyone can have a look and offer some help...





 
Just to add these readings were taken after clearing the fault codes. It usually lasts a couple of drives and then flags up, presumably as the long term fuel trim adaptation creeps up beyond the limit?
 
Long time since I've updated this thread, but I just wanted to report that the faults have now gone :)

It turned out the downstream 90 degree o2 spacers meant the sensors weren't picking up enough exhaust gases, making the car think it's running too lean. In order to correct this false reading the car was increasing fueling and subsequently triggering the precat too rich fault.

This has been solved with some small straight o2 spacers, just enough to read enough exhaust gases to stop the cat efficiency codes and not too much to flag up the other codes. Happy days... eventually :)
 
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