K04 - Tell me what you know

Sean_

Sean_

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Chaps,

I know these threads are done to death but I'm just looking for a little bit more info so bare with me.

I have been through some of the build threads of some 2.0 TFSI A4's and they are amazing, I will probably contact these guys directly for some more advise and tips.

Basically I am thinking of going ahead with the K04 conversion on my 2.0 TFSI Quattro, its currently got a stage 1 map and is at the 240bhp mark, it goes great but I definitely want more power. I've been tempted to sell up and look at an Edition 30 I know going for sale but it could work out cheaper and a lot cooler if its done on my current A4. What are peoples thoughts and honest reviews on the conversion? Are they a worthwhile modification? Are they expensive or too much labor intensive? It makes it a little bit more awkward for me as I live in Ireland and these parts don't come for sale often so I'd be getting most directly from Audi or else second hand in the UK, plus I've never heard of a K04 TFSI A4 Quattro in Ireland so this could one of the first or only K04'd A4 in Ireland.

How do they shift with the K04 in them? I've seen some videos on YouTube and they seem to go like stink. This would be my daily driver so it would have to be practical. I'm sort of after around the 330-350bhp mark. Would this be a safe power or would I be running into problems down the line?

Also, parts. How difficult are they to get? I know I'll need the obvious ones like Turbo, S3 Injectors, HPFP, TBE, front mount, DV relocation, is there much more parts involved in the conversion?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated guys.
 
I have been interested in this for my DTM and have to say its been frustrating.

K04 parts are easy to find if new. Packages are available from various manufacturers. If you want to collect used parts then it will take time.
Because the engine is longitudinal it is not as straight forward as an A3 or Golf as custom pipework and relocation of the DV needs to be considered.
(I may be corrected here).

Personally and i have tried.. but i want a one stop shop for the conversion with a fixed price but all i get is estimates for around 4k plus, all incl.
And then there is the uprated clutch your going to need !
I have decided not to invest that sort of money in the car.. just enjoy the stage 2 performance and put the money in to the next car.
Although for around 3k i would reconsider.
 
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Beach Buggy turbos are in the process of developing a direct fit turbo so I would just hang on for a little while. I will be going down this route too at some point. Until then I would crack on with the other bits needed (hpfp, fmic, dv relocation, clutch and sourcing injectors)

Facebook post link
 
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When you say Ko4.. you are referring to a Ko4 in which found motor? As your car has a Ko4 but obviously the one that will max out at 280bhp or so. Love this idea for an A4 but these mods are usually found in Golfs and Cupra R's.

If you want bigger power...300bhp + your pistons will need to be forged for a start then all the usual work as specified above will also have to be carried out.

Agreed with all of above..Definitely speak to Beach Buggy Turbos (via facebook) as he is the expert on this. Will tell you exactly what you need for the power numbers you are after. Failing that, a site sponsor on here...'The turbo engineers' are also kings when it comes to our cars.
 
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Tooty_Fruity said:
I have been interested in this for my DTM and have to say its been frustrating.

K04 parts are easy to find if new. Packages are available from various manufacturers. If you want to collect used parts then it will take time.
Because the engine is longitudinal it is not as straight forward as an A3 or Golf as custom pipework and relocation of the DV needs to be considered.
(I may be corrected here).

Personally and i have tried.. but i want a one stop shop for the conversion with a fixed price but all i get is estimates for around 4k plus, all incl.
And then there is the uprated clutch your going to need !
I have decided not to invest that sort of money in the car.. just enjoy the stage 2 performance and put the money in to the next car.
Although for around 3k i would reconsider.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info dude. I know exactly what you mean, from doing some quick searches some members seem to have been selling quite a few bits together as a set but its never complete. I have found a brand new set with turbo and fittings from Germany for around 1200e, I'd have to source injectors, HPFP and intercooler seperatly but it could be a start. I'll try link the add and maybe someone would be able to confirm if it's worth the money and if it'll fit.

I had been thinking that myself hence why I wanted to sell up and get an ED30 but it would actually work out a lot cheaper for me if I was to keep the car and upgrade the turbo. I would imagine you could do the conversion for less than 3k surely?

BennyG_UK said:
Beach Buggy turbos are in the process of developing a direct fit turbo so I would just hang on for a little while. I will be going down this route too at some point. Until then I would crack on with the other bits needed (hpfp, fmic, dv relocation, clutch and sourcing injectors)

Facebook post link
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link Benny, I will be sure to get onto these guys to see if they are anywhere near completion. That would be extremely handy if it was straight plug and play with no modifications to make it fit. I've been doing some online searching on the German eBay and have come across some good parts for cheap. Injectors seem to the hardest to find for cheap, would it okay to buy these second hand?
 
DrStrange said:
When you say Ko4.. you are referring to a Ko4 in which found motor? As your car has a Ko4 but obviously the one that will max out at 280bhp or so. Love this idea for an A4 but these mods are usually found in Golfs and Cupra R's.

If you want bigger power...300bhp + your pistons will need to be forged for a start then all the usual work as specified above will also have to be carried out.

Agreed with all of above..Definitely speak to Beach Buggy Turbos (via facebook) as he is the expert on this. Will tell you exactly what you need for the power numbers you are after. Failing that, a site sponsor on here...'The turbo engineers' are also kings when it comes to our cars.
Click to expand...

I mean the K04 from the S3 8P, currently the TFSI A4's only have a K03 turbo. I had asked the question would the engine or the rods have to be forged and was told it could be run on standard internals. I'm going to try and contact both guys you mentioned so I can get a clearer picture of what has to be done and roughly how much work is involved. Thanks for the info though :)
 
audi upgrades
standard internals will be fine unless you go 400+

Its torque that kills these engines not bhp though.

@DrStrange are you thinking about the 1.8T engine? As these will probably need new internals. TFSI's however will be fine
 
BennyG_UK said:
standard internals will be fine unless you go 400+

Its torque that kills these engines not bhp though.

@DrStrange are you thinking about the 1.8T engine? As these will probably need new internals. TFSI's however will be fine
Click to expand...

That's what I thought, I would be going for around 330-350bhp so nothing which is going to push the engine beyond its limits. What would be the max torque with these engine and turbos?
 
Its a bit of a finger in the air to be honest. I would follow all other ko3->ko4 guides which seem to aim for 350bhp + 370lbft. Probably be ok with more but as with anything, when you up power you stress more components.

Some people also say DTM 220bhp (BUL engine code) already have uprated internals, but I've never found any hard evidence on this (I have a BUL in my avant)
 
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Sean_ said:
I mean the K04 from the S3 8P, currently the TFSI A4's only have a K03 turbo. I had asked the question would the engine or the rods have to be forged and was told it could be run on standard internals. I'm going to try and contact both guys you mentioned so I can get a clearer picture of what has to be done and roughly how much work is involved. Thanks for the info though :)
Click to expand...

Oh I see! Can be confusing with Audis as all the turbos are code named ko3 and ko4. Actually we collectively call them this. They are Borg Warner KKK etc...

I actually didnt know the TFSI's ran using ko3 turbos. Yes, definitely contact these 2..this is the bread and butter of what they do. Im get regular facebook updates of their latest endeavours all the time.
 
BennyG_UK said:
standard internals will be fine unless you go 400+

Its torque that kills these engines not bhp though.

@DrStrange are you thinking about the 1.8T engine? As these will probably need new internals. TFSI's however will be fine
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info Benny. As said to Sean, I didnt know the TFSI where ko3. I thought all the newer build TFSI where ko4. Its all Borg Warner's part numbering system anyway as the older TT 225 runs using a ko4.

Yes, I was thinking of my 1.8t bhp which has a ko3s. Also.. thought that the 2.0 were a bored out version of the 1.8t hence the lack of structural integrity after 280bhp
 
BennyG_UK said:
Its a bit of a finger in the air to be honest. I would follow all other ko3->ko4 guides which seem to aim for 350bhp + 370lbft. Probably be ok with more but as with anything, when you up power you stress more components.

Some people also say DTM 220bhp (BUL engine code) already have uprated internals, but I've never found any hard evidence on this (I have a BUL in my avant)
Click to expand...

I hear you! Honestly, that's the sort of figures I'd be chasing, wouldn't want to be going anymore because then I know I'll be getting into trouble with pushing the engine too hard! Mine is a 55 plate 200bhp, not actually sure what engine code mine is, I may check. Would there be any differences in the two in terms of strengthening? Like would one be weaker than the other?
 
Hi Sean.
If you want 350hp then you need to go with hybrid K04 or like me Hybrid K03 from Beach Buggy Turbo. I ordered the first logitudinal bolt on type from them. But still didn't fit it because i gathering parts. I already have S3 Injectors, Loba Hpfp, Rs4 return valve, and Fmic. Now i looking for Uprated clutch but its starts to be a more challenging then other parts. Stock engine can keep up till 350hp and 400lbs.
 
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Sean_ said:
I hear you! Honestly, that's the sort of figures I'd be chasing, wouldn't want to be going anymore because then I know I'll be getting into trouble with pushing the engine too hard! Mine is a 55 plate 200bhp, not actually sure what engine code mine is, I may check. Would there be any differences in the two in terms of strengthening? Like would one be weaker than the other?
Click to expand...

Not sure in terms of strengthening, as I mentioned, few people seem to think BUL already has forged internals but I have never found any hard evidence of this, so I would assume it hasn't.

Compression ratios are however different as mentioned by @Tooty_Fruity
 
Not sure about compressing ratio. But for sure they are not forged. I think it's only factory tuned engines. To be more exclusive then SE or S-Line.
And you only need to forge your engine if you want to be on safe side when hitting 400lbs or you go over.
 
Stifler said:
Hi Sean.
If you want 350hp then you need to go with hybrid K04 or like me Hybrid K03 from Beach Buggy Turbo. I ordered the first logitudinal bolt on type from them. But still didn't fit it because i gathering parts. I already have S3 Injectors, Loba Hpfp, Rs4 return valve, and Fmic. Now i looking for Uprated clutch but its starts to be a more challenging then other parts. Stock engine can keep up till 350hp and 400lbs.
Click to expand...

What I would probably do is go first with just a standard K04 and then if I felt I wanted a bit more power I would go hybrid! I understand that the S3 & Golf are transverse and the A4 is longitudinal, will the S3 K04 fit mine with some slight modifications? I found a great add on eBay.de for a full conversion kit minus the injectors, FMIC and HPFP for good money brand new, would this suit or is there something specific I need to get? Did you buy all your parts second hand?
 
1.) The turbo exhaust flange on a S3 and A4 are completely different. So, your A4 downpipe will NOT bolt up to this turbo and a custom downpipe will have to be made that incorporates a S3 (or GTI) flange.

2.) The manifold will not seat properly to the head unless the appropriate ear of the exhaust flange is trimmed and a new hole drilled (it will hit the engine mount).

3.) The compressor outlet and inlet of the turbo are in different locations than an A4. You would need custom hoses to make this work.
 
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DrStrange said:
When you say Ko4.. you are referring to a Ko4 in which found motor? As your car has a Ko4 but obviously the one that will max out at 280bhp or so. Love this idea for an A4 but these mods are usually found in Golfs and Cupra R's.

If you want bigger power...300bhp + your pistons will need to be forged for a start then all the usual work as specified above will also have to be carried out.

Agreed with all of above..Definitely speak to Beach Buggy Turbos (via facebook) as he is the expert on this. Will tell you exactly what you need for the power numbers you are after. Failing that, a site sponsor on here...'The turbo engineers' are also kings when it comes to our cars.
Click to expand...
your turbo is a k03 designation which maxes out around the 280 mark. If you want to go much beyond this you will need to replace the rods, not the pistons to run a K04064 from an S3 or Leon cupra. That and supporting mods could nett you 350 - 370 HP for not a massive outlay
 
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Why do you need to replace rods? Quite a few people have got a ko4-064 on their a4's without changing rods. I was under the impression rods would only be needed when getting closer to 400bhp
 
Sean go with hybrid K03 like me. Everything is bolt on, you don't need to modify anything and it can produce same HP and Torque. Rods bends when you are near 400lbs and over it. And for K04 you need lots of modification. Find some older builds. If you are skilled and have tools then you can do it, but if you like me , no tools and place where to do it then K03 hybrid is better route.
 
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Broken Byzan 280 is more likely for 1.8T engines not for 2.0
 
Stifler said:
Broken Byzan 280 is more likely for 1.8T engines not for 2.0
Click to expand...
not at all, the k03 on the tfsi as std with stage 2 mods gives a reliable 280 odd. most i have seen is 320 and that was a demo car for a tuner that expired at castle combe
 
I thought about bending the rods.
Stage 2+ is max around 280 because K03 cant keep up
 
Good info, all useful when it comes to going stage 2 myself. (but with 1.8t displacement)

Agreed with Stifler, go the Hyrid route Sean..you wont be disappointed. :p
 
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audi upgrades
Stifler said:
Sean go with hybrid K03 like me. Everything is bolt on, you don't need to modify anything and it can produce same HP and Torque. Rods bends when you are near 400lbs and over it. And for K04 you need lots of modification. Find some older builds. If you are skilled and have tools then you can do it, but if you like me , no tools and place where to do it then K03 hybrid is better route.
Click to expand...

What sort of figures did you make with the K03 Hybrid and where did you get it from? Don't really know much about a K03 Hybrid, how do you find yours? I unfortunately wouldn't have the confidence to tackle it myself, some things I would attempt but something like this I'd probably leave to the professionals hahah.

DrStrange said:
Good info, all useful when it comes to going stage 2 myself. (but with 1.8t displacement)

Agreed with Stifler, go the Hyrid route Sean..you wont be disappointed. :p
Click to expand...

I am tempted hahah, I will see how @Stifler got on with his and depending what figures they get compared to a K04 I would look into it, I've never seen one for sale second hand though, don't really wanna shell out loads of money on a brand new set up as I'd still have to source injectors, HPFP & FMIC :(
 
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Just been onto BBT and the Hybrid K03 seems to be the way to go, pricing has went up a little bit but definitely the way to go as its a direct bolt on which can push out the same if not more than a standard K04. I better start collecting parts :tearsofjoy:
 
Sean_ said:
Just been onto BBT and the Hybrid K03 seems to be the way to go, pricing has went up a little bit but definitely the way to go as its a direct bolt on which can push out the same if not more than a standard K04. I better start collecting parts :tearsofjoy:
Click to expand...

Good that you have. Yep, I knew you would be impressed, Personally I think he is very fair with his prices. Just be patient, as I dont think hes the most sociable person due to being busy I guess.

Definitely would do this also for my Cabby if budget permits.
 
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Unfortunately Dan sold his company, now its in new owners hand.
 
Oh!! Thanks for the info mate.

Is Dan starting up another? A bit annoying as he put sh*t loads of R&D into it.
 
DrStrange said:
Good that you have. Yep, I knew you would be impressed, Personally I think he is very fair with his prices. Just be patient, as I dont think hes the most sociable person due to being busy I guess.

Definitely would do this also for my Cabby if budget permits.
Click to expand...

Can't believe this was news to me, all the work that had been done previously and I'd never known :tearsofjoy: definitely considering going ahead with this anyway, for the money and the time it'll save trying to modify a standard turbo onto it will make it well worth it being honest.

I think you should definitely consider it for the Cab! :D
 
So if going hybrid, what else do you need to change from stock?
 
DrEvil said:
So if going hybrid, what else do you need to change from stock?
Click to expand...

From what I've gathered it seems to be - Front mounted Intercooler, High pressure fuel pump & S3 Injectors, Full Turbo back exhaust is advised but not definitely needed and then you'd need to get the car mapped after getting the parts fitted. I could be missing a few smaller things but from reading through some threads and some advise from lads on here that seems to be it?
 
Thanks Sean :)

With Regards to BBT..just checked their FB. The owner (Dan) sold his company to a tuner named 'Clive' who used to head up CN tuning.
He has a wealth of knowledge with turbos and hybridding, so hopefully the company is in good hands. Not to mention, Dan is still staying on board for what appears to be his seal of approval to ensure the quality is still as he interned it to be.
 
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Sean_ said:
From what I've gathered it seems to be - Front mounted Intercooler, High pressure fuel pump & S3 Injectors, Full Turbo back exhaust is advised but not definitely needed and then you'd need to get the car mapped after getting the parts fitted. I could be missing a few smaller things but from reading through some threads and some advise from lads on here that seems to be it?
Click to expand...

Indeed. Definitely a better flowing exhaust, either sports cat or Full de-cat. Turbo intake pipe. plus the above should see the full benefits of stage 2 modding
 
DrStrange said:
Thanks Sean :)

With Regards to BBT..just checked their FB. The owner (Dan) sold his company to a tuner named 'Clive' who used to head up CN tuning.
He has a wealth of knowledge with turbos and hybridding, so hopefully the company is in good hands. Not to mention, Dan is still staying on board for what appears to be his seal of approval to ensure the quality is still as he interned it to be.
Click to expand...

Glad to know the company is in good hands, they definitely know their stuff and the service and quality look top notch! Hoping I'll be back onto them in the next few weeks to see if they can do anything for me. Wonder would they do a group buy for various TFSI models? I'm sure there could be a few people up for it.

DrStrange said:
Indeed. Definitely a better flowing exhaust, either sports cat or Full de-cat. Turbo intake pipe. plus the above should see the full benefits of stage 2 modding
Click to expand...

Yeah bang on there with the exhaust, full de-cat would be ideal! Just out of curiosity I checked online for a Turbo intake pipe, only ones I came across were from the US which weren't the cheapest, even eBay didn't have any? Do you think they would be essential?
 
Sean_ said:
Glad to know the company is in good hands, they definitely know their stuff and the service and quality look top notch! Hoping I'll be back onto them in the next few weeks to see if they can do anything for me. Wonder would they do a group buy for various TFSI models? I'm sure there could be a few people up for it.

Yes me too. Im sure they would if you put the proposition forward to them.

Yeah bang on there with the exhaust, full de-cat would be ideal! Just out of curiosity I checked online for a Turbo intake pipe, only ones I came across were from the US which weren't the cheapest, even eBay didn't have any? Do you think they would be essential?
Click to expand...

Yes, from what a lot of tuners and customer have said (my mate included haha) De-catting frees up some power not to mention wth turbo spool. Basically the less restriction you have after the turbo the better. But NOT to be confused with pipe diameter. 2.5inch piper work is perfect.

I'd say contact Badger5 tuning, he will probably let you know where you can get your hands on a good quality one. with Silicone TIPS, my advice is stay away from ebay ones. Forge is probably best.
 
What tuner are people using for the b7 tfsi?

I've asked Niki @ Rtech a few times but he's not really interested in b7 tfsi stuff, and doesn't have a 4wd dyno.
 
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