When I spoke with my dealer at one stage about how the VAT works he explained that car dealers have a special arrangement when selling second-hand cars. He tried to explain it to me but lost me after a few minutes.
2016 8V A3/S3 Facelift Rumours
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Tony1982
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Thanks, I'm not sure to be honest both very similar (at least the cars I've found on google are). Very nice indeed.
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But I still don't understand why auto trader etc etc are selling for only 2/3k less then a brand new..
I can't seem to find these so called 20/30percent 1 year old a3 sportback in auto trader
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Tony1982
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Well do you think a dealer will sell mine for what they would buy it off me for? Or any car they get back from a part ex? No, they will make a good profit! Also, they will be selling them with the optional factory extra's taken into account which can make the difference of up to around £10k between 2 new A3's, so it's likely you won't know the original prices the cars sold for before being in autotrader, dealers won't take most of the factory extras into account when buying them off people for part ex, and the people selling privately are always pretty optimistic with their pricing and expect to be knocked down without a doubt, the vast majority will not take what they advertise them for. Prices on Autotrader are always inflated by a fair bit. Some of the cars I've bought second hand I have paid a good £2-3K less than they were advertised.
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Tony1982
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So I would need to haggle of buying from auto trader?
Know a site that shows true value of a car?
I know car wow can get you deals on brand new. But second hand remains a mystery for me
Tony1982
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The second hand market is always about the haggle game
As is buying new to be fair but your haggle game will need to be much stronger. The true value of any car is what the person selling it can get for it or at least what he is willing to let it go or further still what a buyer is willing to pay - i.e there is no true value, but Parkers price guides and alike can give you reasonable prices to aim off at.
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never, ever go buy a car without your haggling game on. If you can't do it, you will definitely know someone who can. Take them with you and you won't get your pants pulled down on the deal.
For those who need a lesson;
For those who need a lesson;
Tony1982
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Exactly, my dealer was only offering 5% discount when I bought my car, I said I wanted 10 and that there were plenty of people getting 12%, he tried to come back with yeah but you're getting it tax free, I said I'd go some where else, he called me 20 minutes later saying he could do 8%, not the grandest of discounts but I took it as he kind of had a point with the tax
Regarding VAT. There's lots of odd things happening.
In normal circumstances you'd pay the full VAT the time of purchase.
There was a ruling at the upper tribunal where Mercedes successfully argued that since title to the goods didn't automatically pass in a pcp, it was not a supply of goods, but a supply of services. Thus there's different vat arrangements on pcp plans.
When sold under pcp, the lease supplier (VWFS) can reclaim the VAT. Whilst you pay the VAT incrementally in your monthly payments. Lots of room for beneficial tax "efficiencies" there.
Dealers selling used cars need only pay VAT on the profit margin, so again, lots of games available there to reduce the burden.
In normal circumstances you'd pay the full VAT the time of purchase.
There was a ruling at the upper tribunal where Mercedes successfully argued that since title to the goods didn't automatically pass in a pcp, it was not a supply of goods, but a supply of services. Thus there's different vat arrangements on pcp plans.
When sold under pcp, the lease supplier (VWFS) can reclaim the VAT. Whilst you pay the VAT incrementally in your monthly payments. Lots of room for beneficial tax "efficiencies" there.
Dealers selling used cars need only pay VAT on the profit margin, so again, lots of games available there to reduce the burden.
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Won't work if some clueless Muppet ie me walks in after u and just say yes to whatever the initial price is lol
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I presume that's the new yellow that's available?
Not to my tastes, but it'll be interesting seeing a few different colours on the road.
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Re Vat ..Yeah , when I bought the S3 I traded both my car and the missus car in on it , on paper one was valued a lot less than the other as he was selling one to trade , even though they were both worth the same . He just juggled the figures about to suit . Made no difference to me as cost to change is always the important figure .
Bainie
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Lol... Yeah , missed out on a few as well , but if you are going to haggle you have to be prepared to walk away and take the chance if the deal is not right ...
Exactly. And if you're buying a new, keep plugging away until you deal the deal you want. It's not as if there's a shortage of Audi dealers after all.
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I used it. It's a very good tool. Use it as as stepping stone though. As with all things automotive, the final price is never the final price.
Offers on Carwow for me started at about 5%. Eventually some dealers were offering about 12% and these were the ones I started talking to. I eventually got just over 15% off with favourable numbers on PCP for a 3 door S3.
Drive the deal also good, but for me the dealers weren't offering the best deal on there. Timing is a big factor. The dealer I eventually bought from stopped using carwow etc for a few weeks as they concentrated on the new '16 plate sales.
Also, broadspeed is a useful service. I used them years ago to source a car from Denmark at a huge discount. The broadspeed website offers a regularly updated price database of potential deals. It's a nice way to daydream a few hours away, and there's some amazing deals available (40% off a BMW Z4 when I was looking), but it serves as a useful guide to what sort of prices you could achieve, and hopefully beat!
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Yep, I used it to get my current A3 and compared to Orange Wheels and Drivethedeal. Put in the spec and see what comes through on all of them. It depends on what you're buying sometimes though.
I went to my dealer and they balked at the Carwow quote so in the end it was cheaper to drive the old car to Coventry, stay overnight and drive the Audi back the next day.
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I did not know this. lots to learn about haggling.
You see, i thought buying a car is like buying the latest iphone, ie whatever price they set, thats it...
In all honestly, Here in the UK at least, you cant really haggle on much things though.
You see, i thought buying a car is like buying the latest iphone, ie whatever price they set, thats it...
In all honestly, Here in the UK at least, you cant really haggle on much things though.
You can haggle or negotiate (two different things) anything anywhere.
In the past, I've paid less than the advertised price in Tesco and M&S on items.
In the past, I've paid less than the advertised price in Tesco and M&S on items.
Bainie
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Don't you believe it ! I built my own house (well project managed I guess, didn't get too dirty !) , had to haggle a lot , always have though , now I try with everything I buy , saved thousands over the years , if a few people are selling an item, be it a tv, toaster or car , they want your business and will cut their margin to get the sale . Sky are a good place to practice , never paid full price for anything from them , nor paid for a box / installation / call out or dish ! Just a tight Scotsman ....
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In tesco? How? I can't imagine you haggling over a sandwich
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Heh. Just say you're 'thinking' about leaving and they put you through to their 'retentions' department. It's quite easy and you don't need to do an awful lot.
How do you go about negotiating...do you tell them the price you are looking for or do you keep trying to get them to lower their price?
The last A3 I bought, I looked at the golf as well, neither salesman would budge from the list price...I ended up going through a forerunner to car wow and got 10% off, just like that
The last A3 I bought, I looked at the golf as well, neither salesman would budge from the list price...I ended up going through a forerunner to car wow and got 10% off, just like that
Go in get a price leave your details and leave, wait for them to call and talk money.. Tell them you want it closer to X figure and of the disagree then say it's too much and they'll probably call you back each day of your figure is realistic. That's my understanding anyway?
Wait for additional input as I have never bought a brand new car until now, people with more experience will be able to tell you more.
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Rapport. Mutual respect. Friendly demeanour.
All important aspects to getting a good deal. Be nice. The cynical will call it using human nature to your advantage, but the fact is that you are far more likely to get a good deal if the sales person actually 'likes' you. As such I wouldn't recommend the walk in walk out routine, since it's disrespectful and requires the sales person to swallow a lump of pride to deal with you. It does immediately put them on the back foot, but remember they are still much better at playing 'the game' than you and no-one likes an arrogant or disrespectful punter. But it it works for you, fair enough, it's certainly one way of getting in a new car!
I used carwow etc. to get basic prices. Those dealers whose prices I liked I started emailing about potential deals, pricing, specs and pcp terms. This gets the conversation going. Don't waste their time though. Mark yourself as a serious buyer and keep your initial questions relevant. Stunted, disinterested and unhelpful replies will quickly weed out the dealers you can't work with.
Conversation leads to rapport, and then you are both invested in the relationship. Human nature and behaviour is a topic every sales person studies in order to sell more cars, but it's important to remember they are human too. If they like you and have invested a bit of time and effort into a relationship with you, then they are more likely to want to offer you a good deal.
You already know what sort of discounts are possible from reading this site. Aim for them. Try to exceed them if you can, but don't get caught up in them. The aim is to get some money off, and deal at a price that YOU are happy with.
If you are happy, then you've won the haggling game, but try to review the contract you settle on dispassionately. Human nature is at play again, and emotions are easy to manipulate;
You can walk away from two different dealers with exactly the same deal. But depending on the relationship, you can walk away really happy, or you can walk away feeling like you just had your pants pulled down by a smooth talking charlatan. That's why you need to review the numbers and the detail in your own time to make sure you are happy with the deal you have.
All important aspects to getting a good deal. Be nice. The cynical will call it using human nature to your advantage, but the fact is that you are far more likely to get a good deal if the sales person actually 'likes' you. As such I wouldn't recommend the walk in walk out routine, since it's disrespectful and requires the sales person to swallow a lump of pride to deal with you. It does immediately put them on the back foot, but remember they are still much better at playing 'the game' than you and no-one likes an arrogant or disrespectful punter. But it it works for you, fair enough, it's certainly one way of getting in a new car!
I used carwow etc. to get basic prices. Those dealers whose prices I liked I started emailing about potential deals, pricing, specs and pcp terms. This gets the conversation going. Don't waste their time though. Mark yourself as a serious buyer and keep your initial questions relevant. Stunted, disinterested and unhelpful replies will quickly weed out the dealers you can't work with.
Conversation leads to rapport, and then you are both invested in the relationship. Human nature and behaviour is a topic every sales person studies in order to sell more cars, but it's important to remember they are human too. If they like you and have invested a bit of time and effort into a relationship with you, then they are more likely to want to offer you a good deal.
You already know what sort of discounts are possible from reading this site. Aim for them. Try to exceed them if you can, but don't get caught up in them. The aim is to get some money off, and deal at a price that YOU are happy with.
If you are happy, then you've won the haggling game, but try to review the contract you settle on dispassionately. Human nature is at play again, and emotions are easy to manipulate;
You can walk away from two different dealers with exactly the same deal. But depending on the relationship, you can walk away really happy, or you can walk away feeling like you just had your pants pulled down by a smooth talking charlatan. That's why you need to review the numbers and the detail in your own time to make sure you are happy with the deal you have.
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I went to audi about 3 weeks ago when i test drove the a3 sportsback and after the salesman tried to strike a deal with me(it was poor to be fair, 19.8k for a 1 year old S Line sportback ) and he never called me back etc after i left.
I will go back to what i said before about me being a muppet and taking any deal, If someone after me that day came in and say yea sure 19.9k is fine, why would a salesman bother to lower the price from techniques and advices here?
Surely it will only work if most of us do this?
Right now i can see many more people who wont haggle and just buy whatever price they offer?
I will go back to what i said before about me being a muppet and taking any deal, If someone after me that day came in and say yea sure 19.9k is fine, why would a salesman bother to lower the price from techniques and advices here?
Surely it will only work if most of us do this?
Right now i can see many more people who wont haggle and just buy whatever price they offer?
Car sales is a game of turnover. A salesman would rather sell ten cars at a profit of £3000 each, than five cars with a profit of £6000 each.
Why? It's obviously much easier to sell at a lower price, and even easier if the buyer thinks he's getting special attention and a deal no-one else is getting. These are all weapons in the salesman arsenal.
The salesman also knows that just because he sold a car for a huge profit yesterday, it doesn't mean he can do it again today. Every customer is different. Likewise, he won't hang on to stock today just in case he can sell it for more tomorrow. It's all about volume. Get the cars out of the door for whatever you can get for them, within the limits set by the sales manager.
More cars equal more commission, more opportunities to gain extra commission from GAP, paint treatments, tyre insurance and all the other extras. More pcp commissions
For Audi UK, selling twice as many cars at half the initial profit is not a bad thing. They get twice as many people paying fees for pcp agreements, twice as many customers to retain to sell them another car, twice as much service, body shop, and warranty work. Twice as many used cars available to sell on the used market.
It's all about volume.
Why? It's obviously much easier to sell at a lower price, and even easier if the buyer thinks he's getting special attention and a deal no-one else is getting. These are all weapons in the salesman arsenal.
The salesman also knows that just because he sold a car for a huge profit yesterday, it doesn't mean he can do it again today. Every customer is different. Likewise, he won't hang on to stock today just in case he can sell it for more tomorrow. It's all about volume. Get the cars out of the door for whatever you can get for them, within the limits set by the sales manager.
More cars equal more commission, more opportunities to gain extra commission from GAP, paint treatments, tyre insurance and all the other extras. More pcp commissions
For Audi UK, selling twice as many cars at half the initial profit is not a bad thing. They get twice as many people paying fees for pcp agreements, twice as many customers to retain to sell them another car, twice as much service, body shop, and warranty work. Twice as many used cars available to sell on the used market.
It's all about volume.
Exactly ^^
Salesman also don't necessarily get their commission for just selling 'New' cars either.....
My salesman in Audi Stirling told me that although between them all the dealership had sold over 200 new Audis for the 1st March....that they weren't getting any of the commission gained from these sales until they had met a 'Used Car Sales' target of x7 each by the end of the month....this is obviously an incentive to get rid of the new trade in stock.
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Salesman also don't necessarily get their commission for just selling 'New' cars either.....
My salesman in Audi Stirling told me that although between them all the dealership had sold over 200 new Audis for the 1st March....that they weren't getting any of the commission gained from these sales until they had met a 'Used Car Sales' target of x7 each by the end of the month....this is obviously an incentive to get rid of the new trade in stock.
www.supercarsofscotland.co.uk
Twitter: @supercarsofSCOT
Instagram: supercarsofscotland_uk
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