Cheapest option is to tweak a bit of torque out of that peak. You aren't going to miss it and it could mean you won't need a new clutch. The longer you leave it and the more it slips the less chance you have of fixing it with the clutch you have.
Sachs clutch is slipping - WTF!
- Thread starter RustyBucket
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It does seem to be near the limit of the set up as I haven't put anything in mine yet I'm going for plenty of scope ,frankly I'm amazed my standard clutch is still alive
RustyBucket
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Yup, I'll talk to the tuners tomorrow and see where I stand, sounds like the best option to me too, just have to drive gently for now
RustyBucket
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Can't see it lasting much longer it I'll take it while it isExcellent, long may it last and as S3Alex said the spec is good option too
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It turned out to be a really good buy.
I got it a few yrs ago when the car was on about 40k miles and 440bhp/440lbs,and it's still going,at 540lbs,and 80K miles.
OK,it rattles a bit,but for the fact that it can deal with all the grunt now,it's worth every penny.
I got it a few yrs ago when the car was on about 40k miles and 440bhp/440lbs,and it's still going,at 540lbs,and 80K miles.
OK,it rattles a bit,but for the fact that it can deal with all the grunt now,it's worth every penny.
Just thought I'd add this to this thread as it's interesting information, all figures on the same dyno is not what you usually see so is helpful information.
Could be the reason revo 2+ people don't have any issues with the clutch and APR 2+ people are having issues.
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APR pushed the torque with their maps as far as they could,and got some improvements over Revo.
A couple of yrs ago they were very keen to get mine on a dyno and to look at timing and fuelling data.
RustyBucket
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R Tech have come back to me with the following which seems fair enough:
"The upgrade clutch kits should take as a k04 can possibly give 380-430lbft with no issues if its started slipping now there it could be down to the clutch clamping pressure, we have never see a upgrade clutch exceed the clamping force from stage2+ tuning."
The options available to me are to either downgrade the map or start talking to the manufacturer. I'm not entirely clear on what clamping pressure is and how this would cause the issues I'm experiencing, can anyone help explain this please?
@Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. , have you ever heard of these types of problems with your customers or APR owners that have come to you?
"The upgrade clutch kits should take as a k04 can possibly give 380-430lbft with no issues if its started slipping now there it could be down to the clutch clamping pressure, we have never see a upgrade clutch exceed the clamping force from stage2+ tuning."
The options available to me are to either downgrade the map or start talking to the manufacturer. I'm not entirely clear on what clamping pressure is and how this would cause the issues I'm experiencing, can anyone help explain this please?
@Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. , have you ever heard of these types of problems with your customers or APR owners that have come to you?
The clamping pressure is how much force is applied to the clutch plate by the clutch cover, normally the more force required means a heavier pedal, except in Alex's case which I'm sure is down to the clutch plate material being able to cope with temperatures better.
Basically what they are saying is there's not enough clamping force to push the clutch plate onto the flywheel and hold drive without it slipping
Basically what they are saying is there's not enough clamping force to push the clutch plate onto the flywheel and hold drive without it slipping
RustyBucket
Registered User
Brilliant thanks for that, nice explanation.
If that was the case wouldn't the clamping pressure have been inadequate from when the 2+ map was applied rather than 2000 miles later?
Is clamping pressure the ft/lbs figure used to indicate what the clutch is rated to?
If that was the case wouldn't the clamping pressure have been inadequate from when the 2+ map was applied rather than 2000 miles later?
Is clamping pressure the ft/lbs figure used to indicate what the clutch is rated to?
Just a little side note, People that have uprated clutch's, Is it not worth going SMF when you have the gearbox out..?
Yes, if that's the path you choose. Apart from extra noise the idle will not be as smooth as a DMF but sometimes it's possible to dial out the rough idle.
It doesn't concern me sticking with the DMF I just thought overall SMF was better so I wondered....
LVS Racing
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I have no issues which the Sachs units, I run a Sachs Paddle with LUK Dual Mass, done countless track days with no sign of giving up..
Once my dual mass gives up (I`m guessing it wont be long) I`ll be putting a SMF in
Once my dual mass gives up (I`m guessing it wont be long) I`ll be putting a SMF in
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I never did trackdays with my Sachs/LUK,but like you,never had any problems with it.
RustyBucket
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Waiting to hear back from Sachs to see what they say before getting the car into the Garage. Will post an update as soon as I know more.
Hi, I'm new here and maybe not expert but reading all the thread I arrived to this. You got stage 2+ but you didn't say the exact torque value you have and basically the stage 2+ is on 370 lbft and this clutch kit is rated on 380-430 lbft so should hold it without any problem, from that we can arrive to tell that your clutch kit is faulty and if I was in you I'll claim it ASAP due to the guarantee that basis on mileage (I think 20000+ anyway).
RustyBucket
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Interesting, out of interest, what would the symptoms be if it was the DMF that had failed?
I posted the dyno print out earlier in the thread which shows peak torque at 385 ft/lbs but from everything I've read, and what others have said on here, this should be no problem at all. I've not come across a mileage guarantee on the clutch, where did find this information, the only thing I can find is a 12 month warranty but there's no proof that the clutch hasn't been abused during that time (which it hasn't).
Where does it say it's rated from 380 to 430ft lbs?
The only figures I've ever seen from suppliers is the above numbers that I originally posted.
Any figures I've ever seen apart from the ones from dark side developments have always been made up estimates from forum members based on previous experiences and what their mate was running.
Over here?
Anyway any clutch supplier got mileage and year guarantee, in the fact when I changed my clutch kit I taken the Sachs Xtended where was written 40 000 miles / 24 months guarantee. on LUK parts if I remember good is 20 000 miles.
RustyBucket
Registered User
Looking at the Sachs site again, the clutch is rated to 550nm which is about 405 ft/lbs http://www.sachsperformance.com/Sac...-quattro-188-kW-;-02/2007-:::2_3_820_844.html so no reason for it to have failed with what I'm running.
RustyBucket
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Still waiting to hear back from Sachs, ultimately going to have to get it in the Garage and stripped down but want to know Sachs position before hand :-(
RustyBucket
Registered User
Yup, that's what I'm thinking, clamping pressure seems to be the problem so indicates a failure.
RustyBucket
Registered User
Hi Guys, just wanted to add a quick update on this. The clutch has been getting worse over the last few weeks and the biting point seems to have got higher as well, I've had to use the car and despite being a gentle as possible the occasional slip has been unavoidable particularly on the motorway.
However, Sachs have sold me a replacement at a discount which is being fitted on Wednesday and if the old clutch is found to be faulty (will need returning to them for testing), they have agreed to refund the full cost of the clutch and pay for the fitting so I'll update again on Wednesday when I know a bit more. I was surprised to see this thread http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/uprated-clutch.248597/ though where it looks like more people are suffering with slip although no mentioned of mileage done since fitting on these.
Quick question, the DMF was replaced at the same time when I had the clutch fitted and a few people I've spoken to said that it should be fine to keep the existing one, what do people think?
However, Sachs have sold me a replacement at a discount which is being fitted on Wednesday and if the old clutch is found to be faulty (will need returning to them for testing), they have agreed to refund the full cost of the clutch and pay for the fitting so I'll update again on Wednesday when I know a bit more. I was surprised to see this thread http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/uprated-clutch.248597/ though where it looks like more people are suffering with slip although no mentioned of mileage done since fitting on these.
Quick question, the DMF was replaced at the same time when I had the clutch fitted and a few people I've spoken to said that it should be fine to keep the existing one, what do people think?
DMF is repalaced normally when stopping to do its function, but as you say your one got few (4k + if remember good) miles so is inneded, I replaced my at 160k miles (aswell clutch) cause wasn t sure of condition but is still fine... Just to say DMF function is to not transfer the vibrations caused by engine to gearbox.
RustyBucket
Registered User
So the clutch came out and all looks fine, the disc is not glazed and there's plenty of meat on it. There is some minor evidence of where it's been slipping and there are some obvious heat marks on the inside on the clutch cover caused by slipping (kind of leopard skin pattern) but no evidence of abuse - as it should be as I don't use the car like that.
So all evidence points to some kind failure, but what, I'm not sure. Sachs have seen these photos and have requested the clutch be sent back to them for examination so sending it all to Germany on Monday...........will update again when I know more.
So all evidence points to some kind failure, but what, I'm not sure. Sachs have seen these photos and have requested the clutch be sent back to them for examination so sending it all to Germany on Monday...........will update again when I know more.
Dan-Jnr
Registered User
That's some serious slippage on the flywheel. The clutch looks OK from the pictures but I guess Sach's examination will prove that.
Do you know if the flywheel when fitted was wiped down of any grease or oils before fitting?
Do you know if the flywheel when fitted was wiped down of any grease or oils before fitting?
RustyBucket
Registered User
The picture is a bit deceiving, its not the flywheel it's the inside of the clutch cover, it's just sitting on top of the flywheel in the picture. It's very dust but not badly marked from the slipping but also displayes the heat marks. The flywheel displayed similar 'leopard skin' heat marks but was not scored although this was replaced as well because of the heat cycling there was a risk of premature failure, this was pointed out to Sachs but they've not asked for the flywheel to be sent back. With regards to fitting, it will have been done correctly and bear in mind everything was fine for 8000 miles before the problems started.
RustyBucket
Registered User
How does it feel and behave, how much stiffer is the pedal?
Looks to me like there's not been enough clamping force on the clutch plate to eliminate any slipping
