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Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car
- Thread starter Prawn
- Start date
It's even got the BGW like yours!Awesome birthday present yesterday from Andy:
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I know!!!!
Took FAR less time to build than the a3 too!
Definitely needs a bigger turbo though!
Took FAR less time to build than the a3 too!
Definitely needs a bigger turbo though!
Press and hold until passed. Bit like a 100 shot of nos but without blowing the welds on the intake, and footwell falling off!
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All depends what happened
What it adds will all depend on the outcome of mapping.
The IDEA I have in my head is as follows:
Map 1 – Low boost, Linear, progressive, 14psi ish, with a torque curve as flat as possible.
Map 2 – High boost, but still linear and progressive. Spool up to ~16psi ish, then steadily climb until it’s at full boost right up high in the revs, say 22psi at 7k for example, rising from 16psi at 3k. This should give peak power, but remain really driveable and progressive.
Map 3 – on the steering wheel Push to Make button – more typical 20vt style delivery. Spool up and boost hard from low RPM. Peak power should be fairly similar to map 2, but the torque delivery should be much more aggressive.
The idea is, when you exit a corner, to get going as early as possible you want it to be driveable and progressive, then, once the wheels are straight, and it’s fully hooked up, you can press the button to add an extra shove of torque.
Adding it like this reduces stress on the drivetrain, should give a nice shove when deployed, and saves the need for switching up / down around a lap for tracks which have tight technical infields and large power hungry permiter sections.
It’ll also make me feel hugely cool every time I press the magic button
The beauty of all of the above though, is that once it’s mapped and setup, it potentially only needs to be mapped for the highest power on the dyno, and everything below that limit can be done by myself through lots of road testing and making little changes to the way it delivers it’s power, working within a maximum range that’ll be defined on the dyno.
I think it’ll be very exciting when it’s all on and finished. I can’t wait to get it done, I just need to find some time from somewhere
That's do cool
What power increase will it be
What it adds will all depend on the outcome of mapping.
The IDEA I have in my head is as follows:
Map 1 – Low boost, Linear, progressive, 14psi ish, with a torque curve as flat as possible.
Map 2 – High boost, but still linear and progressive. Spool up to ~16psi ish, then steadily climb until it’s at full boost right up high in the revs, say 22psi at 7k for example, rising from 16psi at 3k. This should give peak power, but remain really driveable and progressive.
Map 3 – on the steering wheel Push to Make button – more typical 20vt style delivery. Spool up and boost hard from low RPM. Peak power should be fairly similar to map 2, but the torque delivery should be much more aggressive.
The idea is, when you exit a corner, to get going as early as possible you want it to be driveable and progressive, then, once the wheels are straight, and it’s fully hooked up, you can press the button to add an extra shove of torque.
Adding it like this reduces stress on the drivetrain, should give a nice shove when deployed, and saves the need for switching up / down around a lap for tracks which have tight technical infields and large power hungry permiter sections.
It’ll also make me feel hugely cool every time I press the magic button
The beauty of all of the above though, is that once it’s mapped and setup, it potentially only needs to be mapped for the highest power on the dyno, and everything below that limit can be done by myself through lots of road testing and making little changes to the way it delivers it’s power, working within a maximum range that’ll be defined on the dyno.
I think it’ll be very exciting when it’s all on and finished. I can’t wait to get it done, I just need to find some time from somewhere
Basically, no 1 is for wet weather,(and me), no 2 is for dry weather and no 3, is for "lets get the hell out of here".
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So, towards the end of the day at Combe, the car was getting noticably slower.
It didn't seem to be getting overly hot, egts had peaked at 818 all day which is great, but boost was down to. Peak of just 16psi. I'd had a brief look over and nothing seemed drastically wrong, but it was all too hot to get close so I just accepted I'd find the cause some other time and drove home.
I popped the bonnet this morning, and it was instantly clear what was wrong.
Remember this tiny split, which had been through just the outer ply previously:
Well, it was a bit more than that now!
I think that explains that then!
In true Blue Peter style, here's one I prepared earlier:
Bumper corner off and headlight out:
New hose is now in, but not had a chance to test yet as we have family here.
Test drive this evening hopefully
It didn't seem to be getting overly hot, egts had peaked at 818 all day which is great, but boost was down to. Peak of just 16psi. I'd had a brief look over and nothing seemed drastically wrong, but it was all too hot to get close so I just accepted I'd find the cause some other time and drove home.
I popped the bonnet this morning, and it was instantly clear what was wrong.
Remember this tiny split, which had been through just the outer ply previously:
Well, it was a bit more than that now!
I think that explains that then!
In true Blue Peter style, here's one I prepared earlier:
Bumper corner off and headlight out:
New hose is now in, but not had a chance to test yet as we have family here.
Test drive this evening hopefully
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Test drive complete. Car feels VERY fast. Boost back at a solid 22psi.
Sadly, this has highlighted a high boost missfire.
Will start with new plugs. And if that doesn't solve it coilpacks.
I want it spot on before I fit the ecu, as I don't want to be chasing issues trying to workout if they're hardware or software.
Sadly, this has highlighted a high boost missfire.
Will start with new plugs. And if that doesn't solve it coilpacks.
I want it spot on before I fit the ecu, as I don't want to be chasing issues trying to workout if they're hardware or software.
Are you sticking with the AGU dumb coils or switching to smart coils and ditching the ICM with Emerald? i don't know if Emerald does logic and/or high current output?
Also what plugs do you run?
Copper? 7's or 8's?
Also what plugs do you run?
Copper? 7's or 8's?
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The emerald will support both setups Ant
It's currently configured as complete plug & play, so works with agu dumb coils. Given you can swap these out for tfsi style could and icm delete without mapping on a stock ecu I'm not sure where I stand with swapping to those at a later date.
For now at least, providing the new plugs cure the high boost missfire, I'll leave it on the current coils. I want to change as little as possible at a time.
Current plugs are bkr7e. I've had. A few mates change to eIX recently to cure high boost missfires, so I'll try that this week.
Needless to say, it's much faster with the new hose on, which makes me believe it's been leaking longer than I'd realised!
It's currently configured as complete plug & play, so works with agu dumb coils. Given you can swap these out for tfsi style could and icm delete without mapping on a stock ecu I'm not sure where I stand with swapping to those at a later date.
For now at least, providing the new plugs cure the high boost missfire, I'll leave it on the current coils. I want to change as little as possible at a time.
Current plugs are bkr7e. I've had. A few mates change to eIX recently to cure high boost missfires, so I'll try that this week.
Needless to say, it's much faster with the new hose on, which makes me believe it's been leaking longer than I'd realised!
No doubt
A few things recently have made me wonder why going on with the the car performance.
(As with a few stories told to me by yourself).
Nothing beat free power hike to good news for you lol
A few things recently have made me wonder why going on with the the car performance.
(As with a few stories told to me by yourself).
Nothing beat free power hike to good news for you lol
I'd just ply with gapping copper 7e's, they probably only last 500-1000 miles in your car though, lol
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Both Nige and Gurds have had high boost missfires recently on coopers, and both have cured them with a switch to iridium bkr7eix so I'm going to give them a try.
Mine ran perfect at 19-20 psi previously, and it's up to 22 now with this new hose on, and only now has it started to miss.
I'll investigate more this evening and see what afrs are doing during the missfire. I'm confident it won't b a huge issue, but I want it solved before swapping the ecu.
Mine ran perfect at 19-20 psi previously, and it's up to 22 now with this new hose on, and only now has it started to miss.
I'll investigate more this evening and see what afrs are doing during the missfire. I'm confident it won't b a huge issue, but I want it solved before swapping the ecu.
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technically all sparkplugs have a copper core
The usual "copper plugs" just use a nickel alloy tip, that conducts better than iridium/platinum but doesn't last as long.
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I currently have a misfire at high rpm on copper 7s.
I might try some iridium. I was reluctant tho as I blew my old engine using iridium
I might try some iridium. I was reluctant tho as I blew my old engine using iridium
More importantly what gaps are prople running and what service interval?
Copper nickel foul the easiest, Prawn was running quite rich for a long time......
Copper nickel foul the easiest, Prawn was running quite rich for a long time......
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Ok, so..........
This is another of those 'I'd probably rather not share this' type posts, but in the interests of helping others, I'm going to anyway.
I'm a plonker.
You know how sometimes you think you know exactly what you're doing, to the point where you over complicate things looking for a deeper issue? Well, yes. That might be me I may have overlooked something fairly simple!
Some time ago, as documented, the car felt like it was getting a little slower. It wasn't as aggressive, and seemed to be running very rich.
I checked everything over thoroughly, and found no leaks at any joints, no other issues, and all seemed to be OK, but it was rich, and flatter than it used to be.
Again, as documented a month or two back, I swapped from my 4 bar fpr down to a 3 bar in an attempt to lean it off a bit for my stupid (blind) ecu.
This worked, fuelling leaned out to a more acceptable level, and the car drove much better. happy days.
Now, some of you will remember, that back in July, I posted this:
It was split, but it looked like it was only through the outer ply, and it didn't appear to be all the way through at all. The car was still holding a solid 20psi, as it has done for a long time (<--take note of this bit!!!).
I contacted Jamie at Forge, who was awesome, and sent out a brand new hose the very next day:
Awesome service as usual.
So, I had the new hose, the old one didn't appear to be leaking, and I've had a lot going on lately, new job, garage build etc. the long and short of it is, I didn't fit it, and thought it could wait until I give the car a thorough going over when the Emerald goes on.
At Curborough 2 weeks ago, I was 0.6s off my PB. the car felt good, and I strung together what felt like a couple of near perfect laps. I just couldn't understand why it was slower.
Looking back through videos, I was only reaching the first or second light of 4 on my shift light in 3rd down the straight, compared to all 4 lights the previous year. This equated to roughly 400rpm down on a very short straight - Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
At Castle Combe last weekend, the car once again felt great, but I had real trouble trying to stick with Gurds on the fast bits, and had to work extra hard under brakes to try and stay with him around a lap.
Towards the end of the day I took Dave CC (some of you will know Dave) out for a few laps, and he instantly looked a little dissheartened at the straight line pace. It'd been a long day, and the car was starting to feel tired.
A look at the boost gauge showed it was only peaking at 16-17 psi. EGT's were good (818 peak), AFR's were OK, if a little rich.
I parked it up after the day and left it there until Saturday morning, at which point I decided to investigate.
I popped the bonnet, and immediately went to check the previously tiny surface split on the charge pipe:
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, that looks somewhat more sinster than it did previously.
I popped the hose off as the TB, and stuck my hand down to the inside of the split:
OH.
This is another of those 'I'd probably rather not share this' type posts, but in the interests of helping others, I'm going to anyway.
I'm a plonker.
You know how sometimes you think you know exactly what you're doing, to the point where you over complicate things looking for a deeper issue? Well, yes. That might be me
I may have overlooked something fairly simple!Some time ago, as documented, the car felt like it was getting a little slower. It wasn't as aggressive, and seemed to be running very rich.
I checked everything over thoroughly, and found no leaks at any joints, no other issues, and all seemed to be OK, but it was rich, and flatter than it used to be.
Again, as documented a month or two back, I swapped from my 4 bar fpr down to a 3 bar in an attempt to lean it off a bit for my stupid (blind) ecu.
This worked, fuelling leaned out to a more acceptable level, and the car drove much better. happy days.
Now, some of you will remember, that back in July, I posted this:
It was split, but it looked like it was only through the outer ply, and it didn't appear to be all the way through at all. The car was still holding a solid 20psi, as it has done for a long time (<--take note of this bit!!!).
I contacted Jamie at Forge, who was awesome, and sent out a brand new hose the very next day:
Awesome service as usual.
So, I had the new hose, the old one didn't appear to be leaking, and I've had a lot going on lately, new job, garage build etc. the long and short of it is, I didn't fit it, and thought it could wait until I give the car a thorough going over when the Emerald goes on.
At Curborough 2 weeks ago, I was 0.6s off my PB. the car felt good, and I strung together what felt like a couple of near perfect laps. I just couldn't understand why it was slower.
Looking back through videos, I was only reaching the first or second light of 4 on my shift light in 3rd down the straight, compared to all 4 lights the previous year. This equated to roughly 400rpm down on a very short straight - Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
At Castle Combe last weekend, the car once again felt great, but I had real trouble trying to stick with Gurds on the fast bits, and had to work extra hard under brakes to try and stay with him around a lap.
Towards the end of the day I took Dave CC (some of you will know Dave) out for a few laps, and he instantly looked a little dissheartened at the straight line pace. It'd been a long day, and the car was starting to feel tired.
A look at the boost gauge showed it was only peaking at 16-17 psi. EGT's were good (818 peak), AFR's were OK, if a little rich.
I parked it up after the day and left it there until Saturday morning, at which point I decided to investigate.
I popped the bonnet, and immediately went to check the previously tiny surface split on the charge pipe:
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, that looks somewhat more sinster than it did previously.
I popped the hose off as the TB, and stuck my hand down to the inside of the split:
OH.
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Last night I went out to do some checking of things. I wanted to recreate the missfire I'd experienced on Saturday night, whilst keeping a close eye on boost, AFR and EGT to see which could be the cause.
On the way to my 'test area' I was loading the car up in 3rd and 4th at 3-4000rpm, and it was immediately hesitant, almost like it was hitting a soft cut limiter. A look at the AFR showed 17:1 - Eek!
I did one full throttle pull higher in the revs, which confirmed my suspicions - it was around 13:1 afr at the top end. Not cool.
So, what's changed? Why has it gone from Rich to lean?
Well. I've fixed the leak, so there's more air getting into it.
I'd previously swapped the FPR to a 3 bar from the 4 bar to try and lean it out a touch.
Clearly, this charge pipe has been leaking longer than I realised!
I pulled over, and swapped the 4 bar back in at the side of the road.
Turned round, gave it a full throttle pull in 3rd gear to the redline.........
*eyes fixated on the AFR* (and partly on the road)
....... 11.8:1 top end. Exactly as it was mapped 2 years ago.
Yup, that's right - I now suspect that ALL the rich running caused lately has been due to this split pipe getting gradually worse over time.
The insulting thing is that it's so simple, and I had the new hose to replace this already.
What this does confirm though, is that I hate my 3.8 ecu, it's so blind and so dumb to these things that it wasn't immediately obvious what was happening. The fact that it could be tricked to fuel better with the wrong fpr was pure fluke.
It's driving well now, apart from this missfire, which as Ant suggested I believe is most likely down to fouled copper plugs. These will be replaced for iridium 7's today if I can find a set.
I'm still considering an ICM delete also, As I think it could be a good idea to have some fresh coils, and an ICM delete works out cheaper than a new set of AGU coils, and does away with the troublesome ICM too.
The only thing I'm unsure of is the mapping / new ECU side of the ICM delete. I know people do it on the AGU and don't require any mapping changes, and as I'm using the plug n play setup, in theory I should be able to wire the ICM delete as any normal AGU and it'll still work fine going onto the Emerald. I need to make a few inquiries to confirm this before I go ahead with it though.
On the way to my 'test area' I was loading the car up in 3rd and 4th at 3-4000rpm, and it was immediately hesitant, almost like it was hitting a soft cut limiter. A look at the AFR showed 17:1 - Eek!
I did one full throttle pull higher in the revs, which confirmed my suspicions - it was around 13:1 afr at the top end. Not cool.
So, what's changed? Why has it gone from Rich to lean?
Well. I've fixed the leak, so there's more air getting into it.
I'd previously swapped the FPR to a 3 bar from the 4 bar to try and lean it out a touch.
Clearly, this charge pipe has been leaking longer than I realised!
I pulled over, and swapped the 4 bar back in at the side of the road.
Turned round, gave it a full throttle pull in 3rd gear to the redline.........
*eyes fixated on the AFR* (and partly on the road)
....... 11.8:1 top end. Exactly as it was mapped 2 years ago.
Yup, that's right - I now suspect that ALL the rich running caused lately has been due to this split pipe getting gradually worse over time.
The insulting thing is that it's so simple, and I had the new hose to replace this already.
What this does confirm though, is that I hate my 3.8 ecu, it's so blind and so dumb to these things that it wasn't immediately obvious what was happening. The fact that it could be tricked to fuel better with the wrong fpr was pure fluke.
It's driving well now, apart from this missfire, which as Ant suggested I believe is most likely down to fouled copper plugs. These will be replaced for iridium 7's today if I can find a set.
I'm still considering an ICM delete also, As I think it could be a good idea to have some fresh coils, and an ICM delete works out cheaper than a new set of AGU coils, and does away with the troublesome ICM too.
The only thing I'm unsure of is the mapping / new ECU side of the ICM delete. I know people do it on the AGU and don't require any mapping changes, and as I'm using the plug n play setup, in theory I should be able to wire the ICM delete as any normal AGU and it'll still work fine going onto the Emerald. I need to make a few inquiries to confirm this before I go ahead with it though.
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wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband wideband ... etc (use any tune you want)
<tuffty/>
<tuffty/>
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Oi, shut up you, I've done it now, I just need to fit it
Anyone got any thoughts on the ICM delete?
My thoughts are as follows:
You can wire tfsi coils to an AGU normally, using the replacement coilpack loom and deleting the ICM. I believe Mark and Kev have done this ( @aragorn @Broken Byzan ) ? From what I understand, no ECU changes or mapping is required, and it’s a fairly simple upgrade.
My new K6 setup has the plug & play adaptor for the AGU engine loom, it plugs in at the same point as the AGU ecu and no wiring is needed on the engine loom side.
Based on that, if an AGU will run perfectly with an ICM delete and new coils and no mapping changes, in theory the Emerald should do the same? I know the Emerald can directly power the coils if I rewired the engine loom, but I don’t really want to get that involved just yet, a new loom is a job for the future in a few years time once I’m up and running on the K6 and happy.
All thoughts much appreciated.
Main reason for the ICM delete is that I’ve had various ICM issues over the years, and they’re expensive to replace, plus the old style coils are pretty rare and not easy to get hold of if one is needed in a hurry.
A full set of TFSI coils, adapters, and new coilpack loom amazingly costs less than just a new set of non genuine AGU coils!
Anyone got any thoughts on the ICM delete?
My thoughts are as follows:
You can wire tfsi coils to an AGU normally, using the replacement coilpack loom and deleting the ICM. I believe Mark and Kev have done this ( @aragorn @Broken Byzan ) ? From what I understand, no ECU changes or mapping is required, and it’s a fairly simple upgrade.
My new K6 setup has the plug & play adaptor for the AGU engine loom, it plugs in at the same point as the AGU ecu and no wiring is needed on the engine loom side.
Based on that, if an AGU will run perfectly with an ICM delete and new coils and no mapping changes, in theory the Emerald should do the same? I know the Emerald can directly power the coils if I rewired the engine loom, but I don’t really want to get that involved just yet, a new loom is a job for the future in a few years time once I’m up and running on the K6 and happy.
All thoughts much appreciated.
Main reason for the ICM delete is that I’ve had various ICM issues over the years, and they’re expensive to replace, plus the old style coils are pretty rare and not easy to get hold of if one is needed in a hurry.
A full set of TFSI coils, adapters, and new coilpack loom amazingly costs less than just a new set of non genuine AGU coils!
Last edited:
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Thanks for the helpful response PT
I hate wiring. Wiring is ****.
A simple ICM delete with a few wires to join is something I can do.
Rewiring the whole engine loom, when I’ve spent £150 on a plug n play adapter, is not on the cards. Full stop.
If it works on an AGU ecu and makes for a worth while improvement requiring no ecu changes, then I’m struggling to see why it won’t work on the K6 as in theory it’s outputting the same info and that works fine on the stock ECU. I’m asking those who have done it if I’m missing some key part somewhere.
Re-wiring the whole loom is not an option at the moment though.
I hate wiring. Wiring is ****.
A simple ICM delete with a few wires to join is something I can do.
Rewiring the whole engine loom, when I’ve spent £150 on a plug n play adapter, is not on the cards. Full stop.
If it works on an AGU ecu and makes for a worth while improvement requiring no ecu changes, then I’m struggling to see why it won’t work on the K6 as in theory it’s outputting the same info and that works fine on the stock ECU. I’m asking those who have done it if I’m missing some key part somewhere.
Re-wiring the whole loom is not an option at the moment though.
4 Meyle bolt down coils are like £90, replacement ICM is £70, same ICM is used across numerous models of cars.
Emerald ecu won't care if you have an ICM or smart coils, it wil just sent out the logic level signal and fire them.
And don't be blaming the ME3.8 ECU again, its not the ECU's fault you couldn't be assed to change the hose haha.
Me3.8 works great if all the hardware is working 100% unfortunately cars don't stay like that so feedback loops are nice for trouble shooting.
Emerald ecu won't care if you have an ICM or smart coils, it wil just sent out the logic level signal and fire them.
And don't be blaming the ME3.8 ECU again, its not the ECU's fault you couldn't be assed to change the hose
haha.Me3.8 works great if all the hardware is working 100% unfortunately cars don't stay like that so feedback loops are nice for trouble shooting.
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Bring your ME3.8 down one day... I'll get youth to shoot it with a shotgun...
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So this new ecu, it utilises all the sensors of the old me3.8?
It doesn't need anything adding to make it wideband? I thought wideband conversions consisted of a lot more like peddles, instruments, throttle body etc etc.
Or is this something you're planning before fitting the emerald?
It doesn't need anything adding to make it wideband? I thought wideband conversions consisted of a lot more like peddles, instruments, throttle body etc etc.
Or is this something you're planning before fitting the emerald?
Emerald ecu will need a 0-5v input from a wideband controller and prawny already has one installed so just needs the signal from that to the emerald ecu.
Switching to me7 ecu needs a new throttle pedal because that ecu is dbw aswell as being wideband.
Switching to me7 ecu needs a new throttle pedal because that ecu is dbw aswell as being wideband.
