Brake replacement - conversions

Rallyman

Rallyman

LPG Abuser & have VAGCOM
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I have to replace all disks (rotten) and pads(worn) on my TQS:

What size are the standard discs due to heavy rust I cannot get an accurate measurement

Can anyone recommend a standard set? Such as ECP ones or has anyone tried these sets and can recommend them?

AUDI A4 B5 TDi 1.8T QUATTRO BRAKE DISC MINTEX BRAKE PADRILLED GROOVED FRONT REAR | eBay

Alternatively,

I understand there is a bigger disc and caliper option that can be fitted on the front using other VAG car parts - what do I need and from what car?

Thanks

Michael
 
I got standard size discs from www.car-bock.de they were a very good price, there's an option to have them with bearing shells pressed in and ABS rings fitted ready to go on the car, and pads all round
The discs are 'Fremax carbon +'
Cost was €207 delivered from Germany, or £167 real money which I think is very reasonable
 
Dont need any ABS rings or bearings on a quattro.

For the front the simplest upgrade is as above, 312mm disks from the B6 mated with MK1 TT/S3 front caliper carriers, stock calipers and pads. Cost over buying new OEM parts is essentially 0, and the caliper carriers go for around £50ish.

Any other upgrades on the front ends up needing a conversion to the later style upright as they changed the caliper bolt spacing. Doing that opens up a vast array of possibilities ofcourse, from 320mm S4 or B7 A4 brakes to 360mm RS4 stuff and beyond.

For the rear, a simple first stage upgrade is to fit calipers, disks and pads from a facelift B5 S4. They can be a bit tricky to get hold of though! If you stick with the 312 fronts thats about as big as you can go on the rear without upsetting things. If you went bigger up front then you can go upto the 300mm B6 S4 brakes, either using the complate calipers, or with a conversion adaptor and a B5 S4 caliper.

As for brands, quality pads are a must, avoid the Pagid ECP stuff as they seem to work great for a few months then sort of "go off". I use Ferodo Premier pads all round and find them excellent. Disks i usually just buy what ever the factors or All German Parts supplies. No point at all in wasting money on fancy disks, even if you stay with stock sized parts, it offers no gain whatsoever, so save the money.
 
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I have the 312mm upgrade and have had it for around 9 years. I agree with just buying plain basic discs with uprated pads. When I first did it I wasted a few quid on nicer looking branded discs but that is all they were.

I have had some S4 uprights sitting in my garage for a while and quite fancy doing the 17z upgrade. Do not think I could get away with the 18z as I want to be able to have the option of using 17" wheels. The compomotives I have use do have masses of brake clearance but I am sure the 17z would be a safer bet.
 
If you upgrade to 312mm discs and use the standard calipers you can't be using the whole disc braking surface or is there something I'm missing
 
The standard calliper/pad is the same as that used on the 3.0 quattro B6 312mm's iirc.

Only one i know of that doest use full disc surface is the B5 facelift 300mm rear upgrade.
 
yeh the width of the braking surface is the same, its just spaced out from the centre of the rotor.

Same pads are used, and full coverage is achieved.

Pics 288:

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/VOLKSWAGEN-PASSAT-AUDI-A4-FRONT-2-312MM-BRAKE-DISCS-/00/$(KGrHqMOKpIE3tbWfed0BN929TUZt!~~_35.JPG

312:

http://shop.brakedepot.co.uk/images/D/dimpled_grooved_ebc_GRY-06.jpg
 
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If you mix parts from the audi parts bin then you can get quite some meaty brakes front and back. I am working on a allroad rear conversion using TRW calipers and carriers from a r32 golf and 312mm front discs and pads as fitted to most v6 engines with quattro ! On my allroad i used passat w8 rear calipers and carriers, stock pads and 288mm brake discs as fitted to most FWD audis. This is esentially a d2 s8 rear brake upgrade which works and uses vented discs + is cheap as well.
Also working to fit a rs4 b5 rear discs and calipers however the cost of the discs makes it prohibitive. I will use golf r32 rear discs, they have the right offset but the centre hole needs enlarging to fit the a6 rear hub...
 
Wow. Choices ! Thanks all for your advice
So if I run the 312 mm front - all I need is the discs and tt caliper carriers ? Scrappy or is there some reliable person who sells them on here?
I'm thinking of getting a pair of new std calipers as I have also to replace the rubber pipes at 197k things are a little rusty !
I presume that this set up will fit under my oem Ronals then? And that the disc offset is correct?
Can I leave the rears as std or will I have to upgrade these as well ?
I have the pagid pads and they have been alright for a commuter drive while but don't like getting worked too hard - what are the Audi ones like? Over priced ?
Cheers Michael
 
Hiya thanks would these be the same as mine or larger ? Would they have the larger carriers on them?
 
Aragorn mentioned on a previous post about the braking effect and how much altering from standard affects the braking balance.
I'd like to ideally end up with brakes that don't die on me after minimal abuse and that I can justify spending for a new set of discs pads and I might be able to stretch to a couple of new (remoulded) calipers.
If I can get the carriers then that's great.
We're the 312mm carriers fitted to any other cars ? Or is it just tt's - I take that it would be the 1.8 turbo tt or do the others have this set up?
 
My 312 fronts, stock rears with Brembo pads all round and Bardahl fluid does about 10 laps of pressing on at Bedford Autodrome before they start to go squidgy. Never come close to running out of brakes on the road with it :)

iirc you can rob the carriers of some of the A6 models
 
All TT's are 1.8T (well bar the 3.2, but thats pretty rare anyway), and they all have the 312 brakes.
S3's also have them.

Some other vag stuff uses the same parts, octavia VRS, golf mk4 "anniversary", and some A6's but those are pretty thin on the ground.

312 fronts and stock rears will be fine. PFL S4's ran 320mm fronts and had standard A4 quattro rears.
 
They would be the same with the std 288 carriers off a 70k A4. You would need to source other carriers from 1.8T TT/S3.

You mentioned getting another set of calipers and that is why I offered, these are not new though but I guess will be cheaper.


Rallyman said:
Hiya thanks would these be the same as mine or larger ? Would they have the larger carriers on them?
Click to expand...
 
Last weekend I completed an 18z upgrade onto by B5 it it was a straight bolt on kit but I'm unsure weather the uprights are the same on the s4 to the a4? I only went down that route as I got the calipers really cheap but when you add up all the other parts you need it doesn't work out that cheap. The breaking is immense though......
 
Cant wait to fit mine. Want to do the rear as well at the same time though. Still missing quite a few bits. Did you go with ML discs? A4 uprights are different.
 
Yes mate I ended up with the 345 ml discs, when those discs are shot I want to go for a 2 piece disc
 
Ideally I would as well but can't justify the price tag on one of them at the moment. Girodisc are like $800 IIRC. Which discs did you get? Did you increase the hub hole yourself?

To fit bbk you need s4 or b6 uprights.
 
I found it somewhat easier to find 312 carriers to fit the S4 uprights than i did finding 312's for the A4 ones.

Newer model A6's have the 312's as the base model caliper and can be picked up on ebay for peanuts. Whereas the TT/S3 312 parts are sought after by all the Golf/A3 boys and are hard to get and end up way overpriced.

I got a pair of 2008 A6 calipers, carriers and brand new Audi pads for £47 delivered!
 
I no but bet the import duty isn't cheap for the girodisc discs either, I ended up just getting the flat APEC discs for around £140 and had a mate who's a machinist take the extra mm out of the bore. All went on well I bought the girodisc hardware kit (bolt kit) for ease rather than looking into bolt length, thread width getting the right sleeves or drilling out caliper mounts etc but all they are is high tensile bolts with a sleeve and a locking nut.
 
Yeah, I got the bolt kit as well from a guy on ebay. Cost me around 40 quid for 4 bolts with nuts and sleeve.
I think I will get mtec discs as I've read somewhere that they can machine it to audi size for £20.
Still time for that though.
 
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Argh, I cant believe I have left it soooo long to replace these!!! Building work stops play :-(

Ok Finally buying everything for the brake replacement.... Though I have not managed to get hold of a pair of the caliper holders, so I'll have to stay with the 288mm's and fit some decent pads....

I am going to replace the following parts:
Brake hoses,
discs
Pads,
Front Calipers (maybe rears)
Sliders

Questions:
I'm removing a calipers and hoses - Is there anything ABS wise to be aware of for bleeding it ?
What decent pads - fast road can I get quickly ?
I'm getting some normal discs from ECP. Front should be straight forward.... I cannot seem to find any fitting guides on the rears - can anyone point me towards a fitting guide ? Thanks
Michael
 
audi upgrades
slepy said:
Yeah, I got the bolt kit as well from a guy on ebay. Cost me around 40 quid for 4 bolts with nuts and sleeve.
I think I will get mtec discs as I've read somewhere that they can machine it to audi size for £20.
Still time for that though.
Click to expand...

I had mtec discs on mine and they were the drilled/grooved type and even though they look coated they corroded and lipped pretty badly, stick to pagids they still look like new on my rears compared to the crappy mintex disc i have upfront which have corroded on the non contact areas.
 
they'll all corrode eventually, its a lump of steel exposed to the elements 24/7!

Mines got special zinc coated Meyle disks on the front and it took a while but even they've gone rusty.


Bleeding you can just do normally, nothing special needed, the rears can be a total pig though.

Ferodo Premiers are decent, but might not be enough if your hard on the brakes.
 
Wohoo got tomorrow off - and the waethers meant to be good as well !!

Thanks that's great - for replacing the rear disc's this should be straight forward then ? - Pretty much like the fronts then ? I presume there are not hidden center shoes or bits like that were found on fords and other cars ?

Will I need a caliper wind back tool ? Or can this be done with some long nose plyers ?

Will Dot 4 be OK or do Audi use some kryptonite type fluid ?

Shopping list..... Depending on availability - what do you reckon ?

FRONT:
Pagid calipers
Pagid disks
Bosch pads or Some EBC pads

REAR :
Pagid disks and Pads

Oh and new hoses

Depending on Audi - I might go for Audi Pads - will these be any better than the Bosch ?
 
audi upgrades
Rallyman said:
Wohoo got tomorrow off - and the waethers meant to be good as well !!

Thanks that's great - for replacing the rear disc's this should be straight forward then ? - Pretty much like the fronts then ? I presume there are not hidden center shoes or bits like that were found on fords and other cars ?

Will I need a caliper wind back tool ? Or can this be done with some long nose plyers ?

Will Dot 4 be OK or do Audi use some kryptonite type fluid ?

Shopping list..... Depending on availability - what do you reckon ?

FRONT:
Pagid calipers
Pagid disks
Bosch pads or Some EBC pads

REAR :
Pagid disks and Pads

Oh and new hoses

Depending on Audi - I might go for Audi Pads - will these be any better than the Bosch ?
Click to expand...

You will need a wind back tool for the rears or you may get away with players if you undo the nipple and push as you twist they may be tight to start with as for front pads I went for black diamond fast track pads and got them from venom motorsport the next day if you order early enough
 
do you run these with standard disks ? What are these like as a daily drive ?
 
Yea you can I'm using pagid discs I find them very good on a daily basis
 
Ok thats good, I spend some time in traffic and don't want to get an achy leg!

Thanks - Ive had a look at Venom - I'll give them a call tomorrow!
 
argh !! Is there an online workshop manual that I can view for the front and rear brakes, with all my stuff still in boxes from the build I can't find the bl**dy Haynes manual - dOH........
:-(
 
OK managed to get the scrappy to get some bigger caliper carriers :) Whoo
ECP didn't have the 312mm discs :-( so I'll have to get there today...

While at the scrappy I saw these Lucas 2 Pot calipers ... They were on an V6 - the mounting holes are different ..... If anyone needs them they were up for £80 - I dont know if that is a good price ???

<a target="_blank" href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/538/269bf4.jpg/"><img src="http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/538/269bf4.jpg" border="0"></a>

<a target="_blank" href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/540/5ab675.jpg/"><img src="http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/540/5ab675.jpg" border="0"></a>
 
OK managed to get the scrappy to get some bigger caliper carriers :) Whoo
ECP didn't have the 312mm discs :-( so I'll have to get there today...

While at the scrappy I saw these Lucas 2 Pot calipers ... They were on an V6 - the mounting holes are different ..... If anyone needs them they were up for £80 - I dont know if that is a good price ???



 
Oops good old image shack.....
Oh ok
These were on a 2.7 Turbo A4 B5 but wasn't or didn't look like a S4...
 
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