LED/HID washers MOT

MrHSingh

MrHSingh

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Ok so I'm in the process of changing out my halogen headlights for bi xenons with DRLs. Initially I was told a new bumper would be needed to accommodate the headlight washers which are mandatory for HIDs but after doing some reading and hearing contradictory opinions from a few mates I have to ask for a definitive answer on this..

According to the literature on this link m4s01000701

Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps may be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self levelling system. Where such systems are fitted, they must work; however, it is accepted that it may not be possible to readily determine the functioning of self levelling systems. In such cases, the benefit of the doubt must be given.

Is it just me or this a bit ambiguous? MAY be fitted and WHERE SUCH SYTEMS ARE FITTED THEY MUST WORK kinda says to me if the system isn't fitted then it can't be failed for?

Also reason for fail is A headlamp levelling or cleaning device inoperative or otherwise obviously defective. If it was mandatory surely the fail reasons would include cleaning system not being present?

If someone here who is an MOT tester or has had any experience with this and can give me a definitive answer please do as it will save me a fair few bob on not having to buy and respray a new bumper and buy washer jets!


 
I emailed Vosa and if they are fitted they must work but if not fitted they can't fail the mot.
 
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http://webarchive.nationalarchives....ormation-sheets/aftermarket-hid-headlamps.pdf


Dated I admit, but as far as I'm aware still relevant....

Followed by changes in 2012 to the MOT....

These have been in place since Jan 1st 2012 but have been treated as "advisories"

April 1st 2012 they will become failures.

Quote
HID headlights can cause dazzle if they are dirty or aimed too high so car manufacturers must fit headlamp cleaning and levelling systems. Where HID or LED dipped beam headlamps are fitted the tester will switch on the headlamps and check the operation of any headlamp levelling and cleaning devices fitted.
The car will fail if a headlamp levelling or cleaning device is inoperative or otherwise obviously defective.

The AA detail the changes here...


MOT changes from 2012 | AA
 
Last edited:
PaulS3 said:
http://webarchive.nationalarchives....ormation-sheets/aftermarket-hid-headlamps.pdf


Dated I admit, but as far as I'm aware still relevant....

Followed by changes in 2012 to the MOT....

These have been in place since Jan 1st 2012 but have been treated as "advisories"

April 1st 2012 they will become failures.

Quote
HID headlights can cause dazzle if they are dirty or aimed too high so car manufacturers must fit headlamp cleaning and levelling systems. Where HID or LED dipped beam headlamps are fitted the tester will switch on the headlamps and check the operation of any headlamp levelling and cleaning devices fitted.
The car will fail if a headlamp levelling or cleaning device is inoperative or otherwise obviously defective.

The AA detail the changes here...


MOT changes from 2012 | AA
Click to expand...

this still seems ambiguous... "Where HID or LED dipped beam headlamps are fitted" still says if they aren't fitted they can't be tested therefor can't be failed... I will be calling my MOT tester in the morning, he's a straight shooter not a dodgy one so will post his response on here..
 
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**UPDATE**

Just got off the phone with my local MOT tester and he said "well if they're not there I can't check them so I can't fail you for them"

I also asked him if they are mandatory and he said no. I personally am taking this as gospel as he is the one who is going to MOT me next year. He is a very straight shooter, plays by the book and would fail anyone in a heartbeat so Im glad he gave me this answer! Happy days thats saved me a fair few quid! :yahoo:
 
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Nothing to do with headlights but it's similar with the spare wheel... If it's not there it can't be tested, nor failed for not being there!
 
This is really very interesting. Are you retrofitting Audi original headlights w/ Projectors and Audi original HID bulbs and ballasts? I'm sure i have read a very long thread somewhere about people arguing about wether certain HID kits will destroy your wiper motor or not, so was just wondering what light set up you will be running.....Any pics? :)
 
Ive got standard halogens on at the moment but Im looking to fit the LED bi-xenons.. I think it was the aftermarket xenons that were burning out wiper motors.. these OEMS will be fine if I can find a set!
 
If you test your car over here in NI then you'd get a straight fail for not having the self beam levellers or washer jets.
 
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a6-chris said:
If you test your car over here in NI then you'd get a straight fail for not having the self beam levellers or washer jets.
Click to expand...

I am sure that they make this law for a very good reason. IMHO If you fit this kit to your car you should comply with the relevant laws concerning them. To skimp on the installation by not fitting the kit fully is very irresponsible and may cause other road users to be dazzled and ultimately cause an accident.
 
judge said:
I am sure that they make this law for a very good reason. IMHO If you fit this kit to your car you should comply with the relevant laws concerning them. To skimp on the installation by not fitting the kit fully is very irresponsible and may cause other road users to be dazzled and ultimately cause an accident.
Click to expand...

well if it was mandatory it would have been clearly stated in the documentation.. end of the day if you r car is clean and has levellers i don't see the problem!
 
Its not a case of keeping the car clean. If you are out and about and the road conditions are kicking up all sorts of dirt onto your headlights this will impair the headlights. Headlight washers are there to keep the headlights clean and the beam correct.
 
judge said:
Its not a case of keeping the car clean. If you are out and about and the road conditions are kicking up all sorts of dirt onto your headlights this will impair the headlights. Headlight washers are there to keep the headlights clean and the beam correct.
Click to expand...

Surely the same applies to standard headlights?? If anything they need washers more than xenons because their light output is so poor!!

I retro fitted OEM xenons and have passed the last two MOT's. As long as the beam pattern is set correctly and doesnt dazzle other road users then it passes.

Oh and I have used two seperate garages for the MOT's so its not as if I am friendly with a particular one to help it pass
 
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judge said:
Its not a case of keeping the car clean. If you are out and about and the road conditions are kicking up all sorts of dirt onto your headlights this will impair the headlights. Headlight washers are there to keep the headlights clean and the beam correct.
Click to expand...

you're right to an extent mate but just how dirty is your car going to get during a journey really? I recently did a 400 mile round trip and apart from a few unlucky insects my car was not noticeably dirty... and the fact it will pass an MOT without washers says it all for me. I will avoid dirt roads and rally driving lol
 
The MOT regulations clearly state the requirements for Xenon headlights. Your MOT stations are clearly are not carrying out the checks correctly and are ignoring a safety issue. I for one would seriously worry if they were doing my car. An annual check is as much for your safety as it is for other road users.
If your are working on the principle that if they are not fitted then they cant fail then would you take your car for a MOT if the wipers were worn and you had removed the arms? Probably not, same principle though.
Mr Plod just needs the slightest reason to pull you over. Once pulled over he then has the ideal opportunity to go over your vehicle with a fine tooth comb if he so desires.
Try driving on country roads in the autumn with cow S**t and mud over them and see if you need your headlight washers then. THE MOT does not require standard headlights to have washers on them.
 
Well this is the point, the regulations are NOT clear they are ambiguous. I can't see the words must be present anywhere. Mud **** country roads won't be a problem considering I live in birmingham.. think you're clutching at straws now mate. End of the day cars have had and still have crappy aftermarket lights on, I'm buying oem audi lights with levellers. It's the way I'm doing it so have a coke and a smile mate :)
 
Regs are clear. to each his own though! I am always smiling at some of the things that people do to their cars and think thats its cool. I have Xenon headlights on my Sline, factory fitted and with headlight washers.
 
audi upgrades
I upgraded my previous A3 to xenons and never had any MOT problems.

TBH I wish my current car didn't have headlight washers as hate the water going all over my bonnet making it attract dirt when i'm just wanting to wash my windshield.

How does a dirty xenon affect other road users? If it's so others can see you then surely all cars should have washers whether they have xenons or not.
 
I dont write the MOT requirements, I just try and have my vehicle comply with them. I just pointed out that it is a MOR requirement for retro fitted Xenons to have self leveling systems and headlight washers.
 
judge said:
I dont write the MOT requirements, I just try and have my vehicle comply with them. I just pointed out that it is a MOR requirement for retro fitted Xenons to have self leveling systems and headlight washers.
Click to expand...

MOT is vague pal - hence the query and why no one seems to have failed their MOT for not having washers and after market HID's.

Does anyone know why xenon's come with washers on cars? All the rules must have a good explanation behind them.
 
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This is the email I received:

Dear Mr XXXXXXXX,

Thank you for your email enquiry dated 18th April, 2013 concerning
Headlamp Levelling and cleaning devices.

The fitment of aftermarket HID headlamps is not an MOT failure. Any
headlamp washing levelling system fitted will fail if it is defective, but
not if there is no system present.

The Department for Transport DFT produce the fact sheet for the fitting
of HID lamps this is not an MOT requirement but a Legal Requirement.

I recommend contacting the Department for Transport on 0300 330 3000 for
further advice.

I hope this information has assisted you with your enquiry, but if you have
any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Kind Regards
Christina M Joseph
Customer Service Centre
VOSA Operations Directorate
Tel: 0300 123 9000
Click to expand...
 
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The DFT guidance seems to be ensuring that projector style lens is used for HID's which everyone agrees with.

Seems there is no need for the OP to install headlight washers from an MOT or Legal point of view.
 
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You need self levelling equipment for all Xenon lights by law regardless of MOT. The reason is simple. They are much brighter and therefore more dangerous.

Not sure I've notice the effect of dirty headlights, but I see plenty of prATS spelt with a TW driving around London dazzling everyone at 20 mph.
 
Credit to the OP for wanting to fit OEM parts and not ****ty aftermarket HID kits that blind oncoming traffic!
 
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in fact- i remember BMW releasing retrofit Xenon's for Mini that didn't need self levelling because they had reduced the brightness significantly.
 
woollyjoe said:
You need self levelling equipment for all Xenon lights by law regardless of MOT. The reason is simple. They are much brighter and therefore more dangerous.

Not sure I've notice the effect of dirty headlights, but I see plenty of prATS spelt with a TW driving around London dazzling everyone at 20 mph.
Click to expand...

Yep everyone agrees need projector lenses and levellers so don't blind oncoming people.

Query was around headlight washers and looks as though this is not a requirement
 
Yes, definitely agree with levellers and lenses, I've been flashing oncoming a**holes blinding me for years now and I will not be one of them to others!
 
s3_trev said:
Credit to the OP for wanting to fit OEM parts and not ****ty aftermarket HID kits that blind oncoming traffic!
Click to expand...

Thanks Trev, pointless spending bucks on a beautiful car and shafting it and everyone else with crappy lights! OEM all the way
 
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judge said:
I dont write the MOT requirements, I just try and have my vehicle comply with them. I just pointed out that it is a MOR requirement for retro fitted Xenons to have self leveling systems and headlight washers.
Click to expand...

Where did you point the above out?

Sorry but it states IF FITTED they must work. End of.
 
Dear Mr XXXXXXXX,

Thank you for your email enquiry dated 18th April, 2013 concerning
Headlamp Levelling and cleaning devices.

The fitment of aftermarket HID headlamps is not an MOT failure. Any
headlamp washing levelling system fitted will fail if it is defective, but
not if there is no system present.

The Department for Transport DFT produce the fact sheet for the fitting
of HID lamps this is not an MOT requirement but a Legal Requirement.

I recommend contacting the Department for Transport on 0300 330 3000 for
further advice.

I hope this information has assisted you with your enquiry, but if you have
any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Kind Regards
Christina M Joseph
Customer Service Centre
VOSA Operations Directorate
Tel: 0300 123 9000
Click to expand...
So still illegal and unsafe for other road users?
And you can be done for it......
 
Think this can go round in circles for a long time :blink:

Bottom line is HID lights, OEM or not can be retro fitted without washers or levelling systems as long as the beam pattern is correct

If the washers and or levelling is fitted, it must work


Not that it bothers me much, I think my standard halogens work just fine :p
 
@Boon - afraid you're very wrong. The MOT is a limited minimum to make sure your car can go on the road, but not whether it is legal.

The law states that the HID must have levellers - they are brighter and deemed more dangerous. It is also in the highway code that "dazzling" other drivers is also a breach. The illegal fittings are easy for the police to spot too. The blind the oncoming police or dazzle their mirrors.


the law is clear:
"In summary it is not permitted to convert a halogen headlamp unit for use with hid bulbs..... The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bubs"
 
audi upgrades
woollyjoe said:
the law is clear:
"In summary it is not permitted to convert a halogen headlamp unit for use with hid bulbs..... The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bubs"
Click to expand...

We ALL know that, the OP is on about fitting OEM lights and levelling system anyway!!!
 
Boon said:
We ALL know that, the OP is on about fitting OEM lights and levelling system anyway!!!
Click to expand...

I was replying to you Boon. It's not personal but you cannot fit HID's in the way you have suggested and people should not fit these- they have to be complete units because the suspension on a car affects the angle - you load the car differently and the angles change for example - that's why there is levellers. The point of these lights is that they are so bright, they are considered extremely dangerous to other drivers.

Not only do the have to be complete units, but they have to be certified also, and OEM are usually the only ones that are. In fact, you will probably find non OEM kit is in fact the company that supplies the OEM kit direct to manufacturers.
 
Oh and Boon - "beam patterns" are one aspect of a complicated highly regulated safety feature. The glare from the headlight itself can be very dangerous. It's more complicated and severe than most would appreciate. The original poster really has only the option to fit OEM.

The fact that washers should be fitted are a safety concern too, albeit small one. If your windscreen needs cleaning, chances are your lights also need cleaning and dirt can diffract light creating glare etc.

All is well and good until there is an accident and the insurance company finds the car is not compliant in the smallest way and can withdraw cover.
 
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