Would a mapped S3 mince a std B5 S4 ?

jq_quint

jq_quint

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Apologies for the lame question....

But I am interested to know the answer. Having previously owned a std B5 S4 and aware of its power / driveability I was wondering how the S3 stands in mapped (stage 1) form .

I thought the power drop off on the S4 was poor although instant power wasn't bad and I was bitterly dissapointed with the understeer (soo nearly got me in strife a number of times,,,lol)..

So if anyone has owned both and can compare as above would love to hear yout thoughts....

JQ
 
havent owned the s4. or a stage 1 s3 lol. but, id imagine straight line drag it would be fairly even.

as for power dropping off, thats very apparent in S3's
 
"mince" not a chance.

A stage 2 mapped S3 might be quicker than a standard S4, but then thats not really comparing like for like is it?

Stage 1 S3 there wouldnt be much in it at all.

Mapped S4 would easily see off any standard turbo S3 imo.
 
superkarl said:
havent owned the s4. or a stage 1 s3 lol. but, id imagine straight line drag it would be fairly even.

as for power dropping off, thats very apparent in S3's
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lol thanks for your input Karl......interesting point on the power drop though..

aragorn said:
"mince" not a chance.

A stage 2 mapped S3 might be quicker than a standard S4, but then thats not really comparing like for like is it?

Stage 1 S3 there wouldnt be much in it at all.

Mapped S4 would easily see off any standard turbo S3 imo.
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aragorn, ru an S4 fan then? I'm not after a mapped S4 so although your point may be true its really its not really any benefit to me...
But you think in general then the stg1 mapped S3 would be about equal to a std S4...
 
id freakin love a B5 S4. id have to have the S3 aswell though.

the sound, the torque, the boost, the REAL quattro. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

is the B5 S4 a tad heavier than an S3?
 
I'd go along with what has previously been said, they are AWESOME cars but the S4's are actually pretty tame and dare I say it disappointing in the handling department. They are a family friendly sports tourer, not an out and out performance car. For their size and weight they are brilliant, but can't be compared to an S3 IMO.

The 2.7 is such a good engine, coupled with OK examples being sub 4K these days they are an awesome car to have if you can afford it.
 
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I've owned bOth having just come from a mapped s4 to an s3.

A mapped s3 will easily see off a standard s4.

A mapped S3 vs a mapped s4 up to 100mph would be tight, but over 100mph the s4 will pull away.

Standard s4 suspension is not the best and is exploited when car is tuned. Decent coilovers soon sort that problem and brakes are ****** good as standard.

The biggest downfall with the s4 is the turbo's. If they let go then a pair of ko3/ko4s will set you back in excess of 2k, plus you have to pull the engine to fit them, include new Oil feeds etc and you see a bill easily in excess of 3.5k. This coupled
With high fuel Prices is why they are so cheap and why you see so many on the forums being broken...

In my opinion a well tuned s3 will see off an s4(to a point) it just depends how Deep your pockets are :)
 
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benh999 said:
I've owned bOth having just come from a mapped s4 to an s3.

A mapped s3 will easily see off a standard s4.

A mapped S3 vs a mapped s4 up to 100mph would be tight, but over 100mph the s4 will pull away.

Standard s4 suspension is not the best and is exploited when car is tuned. Decent coilovers soon sort that problem and brakes are ****** good as standard.

The biggest downfall with the s4 is the turbo's. If they let go then a pair of ko3/ko4s will set you back in excess of 2k, plus you have to pull the engine to fit them, include new Oil feeds etc and you see a bill easily in excess of 3.5k. This coupled
With high fuel Prices is why they are so cheap and why you see so many on the forums being broken...

In my opinion a well tuned s3 will see off an s4(to a point) it just depends how Deep your pockets are :)
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Thanks Ben great answer,,,,,incidentally the turbo repair cost was the main reason I got shot of my S4 (oh and our 3rd child).....
 
superkarl said:
id freakin love a B5 S4. id have to have the S3 aswell though.

the sound, the torque, the boost, the REAL quattro. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

is the B5 S4 a tad heavier than an S3?
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yeah about 140kg's from what i've just read Karl...

Don't get me wrong I did love this car, but felt something was missing.......(like about 60hp..lol)
 
jq_quint said:
Thanks Ben great answer,,,,,incidentally the turbo repair cost was the main reason I got shot of my S4 (oh and our 3rd child).....
Click to expand...

That reads amazingly, you sold your third child to pay for the turbo's on the S4?

Get that man a beer!
 
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The S4 has 265hp as standard, and weighs around 1600kgs.
The S3 with nothing but a stage one map has probably around 240-250hp, but they're lighter (around 1450?), so they'd end up around the same i'd expect, maybe a slight advantage at lower speeds, and losing out at higher ones.

A tuned S3, with every bolt on imaginable will see about 275hp on the stock turbo, an S4 with every bolt on but still on the stock turbos will see around 350hp. At that level the S4 will be a LOT quicker than the S3.

I'm not an S4 fan, mainly due to the points that ben pointed out, running costs are high and they arent nice cars to work on. The B5 Quattro platform is far superior to the S3 though, and its a much better looking car too ;)
 
That's a race between a s3 and old shape s4 which is based on the old audi 100/C4 platform with the 5 cyl. inline 5 engine ! The s4 2.7TT has a better power to weight ratio and a much broader power curve. I would say the race will be tight and if you map the s4 it will be a different story all toghether. To the nay sayers, the b5 platform handles better with just a few tweaks...
 
It's a different class of car manufactured for an entirely different purpose.

Modified against unmodified isn't a fair shout either but i have to ask...does it really matter?
 
It does matter yeah, from the point of view we are looking from.

My car would mince a mapped S3 and an S4, just for arguments sake.
 
I would say it is harmless conjecture! Or just a game of whos C**Ks bigger and as this is on the A3/S3 section it goes without saying that it is the A3/S3 !!! :whistle2:
 
It's a bit of a strange comparison, an S3 to an S4. The S4 is a saloon with a V6 in it whereas the S3 is a medium size hatch with a 4-pot turbo. So they're completely different cars in my view. Whilst the speed differential might be to the S4's favour in modified form, in reality you have to balance that off with the higher running costs of fuel, servicing & the potential for high repair costs with the S4.

So for me personally, the S3 wins hands down because the benefits of the S4 just don't balance up vs the disadvantages.
 
i personally like to hear the comparisons, weird as they may be, thats what these forums are all about. I love hearing how a standard S3 or modifies one compare to any type of car, standard or modified.
Rather that than read on about radio connections,subs, body kits etc
 
16Klappe said:
It does matter yeah, from the point of view we are looking from.

My car would mince a mapped S3 and an S4, just for arguments sake.
Click to expand...

What power you running mate?
 
I have to agree as I see it the whole point of the forum is that it should be fun (as well as full of useful info and help of course).
 
superkarl said:
prob closer to 200 than he'd Like.

He hasn't proved his claims yet.
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If you mean closer to 200 than 300 than I would like then you are probably right :p R-Techs rollers have had mine at 230bhp with a misfire and a cracked manifold, since it has had a new downpipe and ths hi flow manifold. Maf is maxed out which from data logs would mean 237-240bhp. You say I haven't proved my claims yet Karl but Solly pretty much **** himself when he came out and I had a sizeable lead over the slow3's at coombe :p Hahaha.
 
I don't need to prove my power claims AGAIN. Would be a more appropriate statement. No chips on my shoulder, I proved my point time and time again. Nobody who has ever been in or seen my car has ever suggested I am wrong. I do have a massive fear of the rollers though, everybody knows how these things are and I do worry that if I put it on the rollers and it throws its toys out I will lose all bragging rights. After all the poor old thing has done 180k, and necer had the head off it.

Its fact, no ko4 powered S3 will be quicker than a 235bhp A3 driven like for like on track or road. It's just the maths of it and it is fact, it isn't my fault S3 owners don't like the truth. Haha :p Don't get me wrong, I would love an S3. As a complete package they are epic, but if I was to have an S3 I would find I wouldn't be happy with anything less than 300bhp.

For this discussion a standard S4 has a bhp per ton of roughly 150, so yes a remapped S3 would mince a stock S4. In fact a stock 225 S3 has a higher bhp/ton than a stock S4. So if you want to talk numbers and figures an S3 should be quicker on paper. If it had proper 4wd and the same weight and power it probably would be.
 
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I can't believe I hooked you with that post, you're too easy to bait. This forum just wouldn't be the same without passionate people like you :laugh:

Anyway back on topic. I'd rather have an S4 than an A4......:p
 
s3dave said:
fkn Jardo ......:)

That statement is ridiculess ...
Click to expand...

Fkn Jardo.

Its true, an S4 saloon has a power to weight of 150bhp/ton, a stock 225 S3 has a power to weight of 152bhp/ton. But the book times and figures for the performance are better on the S4 than the S3, and in real life an S4 is quicker than an S3. I would say it is down to the upgrade of proper 4wd and potentially gear ratios that make the S4 slightly quicker.

I am suggesting that if you could fit proper quattro to an S3 yet retain the original weight of an S3 it would be quicker than the S4. I would say it is the haldex which slows it down, would be interesting to know a factual 0 to 60 of an S3 with an upgraded haldex controller?
 
Wow...I only asked 'does it matter?' 16 hours ago and the debate still rages.

Personally, I think the s3 would be better judged around wet country lanes than in a straight line drag race. Thats where it's a real star and, once modified, very few cars will be able to keep up. Each to his own though and as, once again, as it's immeasurable I doubt this thread will have no long term relevance.

Love the banter though.
 
Jimgrim77 said:
Wow...I only asked 'does it matter?' 16 hours ago and the debate still rages.

Personally, I think the s3 would be better judged around wet country lanes than in a straight line drag race. Thats where it's a real star and, once modified, very few cars will be able to keep up. Each to his own though and as, once again, as it's immeasurable I doubt this thread will have no long term relevance.

Love the banter though.
Click to expand...

Bring your S3 and try and keep up with me in a slippery b road then :p

Hahaha I love this! :p
 
16Klappe said:
Fkn Jardo.

Its true, an S4 saloon has a power to weight of 150bhp/ton, a stock 225 S3 has a power to weight of 152bhp/ton. But the book times and figures for the performance are better on the S4 than the S3, and in real life an S4 is quicker than an S3. I would say it is down to the upgrade of proper 4wd and potentially gear ratios that make the S4 slightly quicker.

I am suggesting that if you could fit proper quattro to an S3 yet retain the original weight of an S3 it would be quicker than the S4. I would say it is the haldex which slows it down, would be interesting to know a factual 0 to 60 of an S3 with an upgraded haldex controller?
Click to expand...

The book times are better because its a faster car.

No idea where you've got 150hp/ton from.

S4 Saloon is just under 1600kgs. The one sat out on my drive says 1578kg on its boot sticker, but we'll say 1600 just to use round numbers. Some EXTREMELY simple maths gives 265/1.6 = 165hp/ton

An S3 has either 210 or 225hp, and weighs for arguments sake 1450kg. It might be more, i've never personally looked. If anyone fancies correcting that i'll be happy to update with more accurate numbers. 225/1.45 = 155hp/ton. An S3 would need approx 240hp to match the power to weight ratio of an S4, which is more or less what you'll get from a stage1 map on an otherwise standard car. You might make 250 with a strong map, and in that case you'll have a slight edge.
 
I went off Wikipedia which is always known as being gospel truth.

I was working from the kerb weight of an avant, at 1680kgs against the 251bhp to give my figure, but our cars get 10bhp more which makes it 155bhpt.
 
16Klappe said:
It does matter yeah, from the point of view we are looking from.

My car would mince a mapped S3 and an S4, just for arguments sake.
Click to expand...

Fkn Jardo! lol, Power without control is nothing mate. I don't doubt your A3 is quicker in a straight line than my S3, I've experienced it first hand, but you can't drive... :laugh:


























:respekt::friends::respekt:
 
Haha lol that properly cracked me up Joe! So true, the reason I have so much power is to make up for my lack of ability lol!!!
 
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