Growing vibration while in D or R (S-Tronic)

Mr Olympik

Mr Olympik

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Hi Guys,

I'm quickly running out of options as to what to do with my 2016 B9 Avant. Perhaps someone has had a similar experience?

While stationary and the car in Drive or Reverse a growing vibration can be felt to fade in and stay there until I set off or put it into Park; there it is silky smooth. Sometimes the vibration is really bad, sometimes it's barely there and barely noticable if at all noticable.

I've had it at Audi and they wanted to do a gearbox service as it was overdue before anything else. Got it booked in and they found a leak from the gearbox sump... quoted £875 for fix as it was a subframe-out job. Car went back to garage where I bought it from as it's still under warranty from them.

They fixed the leak, serviced the gearbox and still no improvement. They then replaced the DMF and told me it was fixed. I got it back, was fine initialy but later that night the vibration was back.

Last thing is tried was putting Redex in and a tank of V Power, still nothing... I'm going to Luton for an airport run on Thursday and hope to give it a good continuous blast.

Beyond that I see no other options, I think the garage will have to refund me but I really like the car and other than this vibration it's perfect, I don't want to give it back if this can be fixed.

A4 2016, 2.0 TDI, Avant, S-tronic, 148BHP
 
Diesels can run more roughly when the ambient temperature is cooler as diesels run colder than petrol. That's all I can offer as the dealership seem to have performed the obvious aside from checking all the engine/gearbox mounting.. .
 
Thanks cuke2u,

I considered that but it did not correlate with ambient temperature, it would be less evident at +1C, tremble like a tractor at +8C and vica versa.
However, the tremor would go away and it'd idle smoothly as soon as I shift to Park or Neutral.

I tried a colleagues brand new A3 s-tronic and it was perfect. Tried a B8 multironic no issues either.

I may suggest that to the garage, but I would hope that when they had to gearbox out for the DMF, they would have looked at the mounts...
 
They may well have not checked the engine mounts, plus the A3 is a transverse setup and the A4 longitude which can make quite a difference as lateral forces can be felt more due to the manner in which everything is couple to the engine/transmission. Sorry can't think of anymore than this to help you...
 
cuke2u said:
They may well have not checked the engine mounts, plus the A3 is a transverse setup and the A4 longitude which can make quite a difference as lateral forces can be felt more due to the manner in which everything is couple to the engine/transmission. Sorry can't think of anymore than this to help you...
Click to expand...

Forgot about the transverse mounting of the A3, you're correct. Thanks anyway, I appreciate your time. Hopefully someone else may give me a hint as to whats going on :)
 
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Where do you actually feel the vibration through? I have driven diesel incarnations of my car and have felt them through the pedals and steering wheel. Not any with mine...
 
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I feel it through the seat, car can be seen to vibrate (either that or my eyeballs are shaking)
 
The worry for me would be the long term reliability - something’s definitely not right and given how much these gearboxes are to repair/replace I’d be seriously considering rejecting the car, there’s no shortage of good ones out there.
I’ve seen a few threads about this low frequency vibration on manual 150’s but not with the stronic. Also, I’d always assumed the stronic didn’t have a dual mass flywheel......
 
Mr Olympik said:
Hi Guys,

I'm quickly running out of options as to what to do with my 2016 B9 Avant. Perhaps someone has had a similar experience?

While stationary and the car in Drive or Reverse a growing vibration can be felt to fade in and stay there until I set off or put it into Park; there it is silky smooth. Sometimes the vibration is really bad, sometimes it's barely there and barely noticable if at all noticable.

I've had it at Audi and they wanted to do a gearbox service as it was overdue before anything else. Got it booked in and they found a leak from the gearbox sump... quoted £875 for fix as it was a subframe-out job. Car went back to garage where I bought it from as it's still under warranty from them.

They fixed the leak, serviced the gearbox and still no improvement. They then replaced the DMF and told me it was fixed. I got it back, was fine initialy but later that night the vibration was back.

Last thing is tried was putting Redex in and a tank of V Power, still nothing... I'm going to Luton for an airport run on Thursday and hope to give it a good continuous blast.

Beyond that I see no other options, I think the garage will have to refund me but I really like the car and other than this vibration it's perfect, I don't want to give it back if this can be fixed.

A4 2016, 2.0 TDI, Avant, S-tronic, 148BHP
Click to expand...

I had a similar experience with a 3.2 DSG TT
In P you could feel it vibrating / shaking and when pulling away at low speed.
I changed the DM flywheel but it made no odds, after that I bought and fitted a new mechatronic unit and instantly the problem was cured.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
T-800 said:
I had a similar experience with a 3.2 DSG TT
In P you could feel it vibrating / shaking and when pulling away at low speed.
I changed the DM flywheel but it made no odds, after that I bought and fitted a new mechatronic unit and instantly the problem was cured.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Hi T-800,

Was your issue also intermittent with varying intensity?

I did the Manchester-Luton-Manchester run today and the car seems ok, no vibration. Waiting till tomorrow for a cold start and test.


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Pork said:
The worry for me would be the long term reliability - something’s definitely not right and given how much these gearboxes are to repair/replace I’d be seriously considering rejecting the car, there’s no shortage of good ones out there.
I’ve seen a few threads about this low frequency vibration on manual 150’s but not with the stronic. Also, I’d always assumed the stronic didn’t have a dual mass flywheel......
Click to expand...

That thought is nagging me at the back of my head, but it’s well specced for the price I got it at :(

RE DMF, me too, but it’s definitely in the s-tronic.


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Do you have a readout of the gearbox and current software number + version?
 
Mr Olympik said:
No, sorry, how would I get this?


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Click to expand...
Check the gearbox module with vcds or obd11 and post a screenshot of it. The software number and version are important
 
RJ-8V said:
Check the gearbox module with vcds or obd11 and post a screenshot of it. The software number and version are important
Click to expand...

I’ve not got a reader. Could order one from amazon for tomorrow, will this do what is needed?


Autmor OBD2 Scanner, OBDII Reader, Car Engine Fault Code Reader CAN Diagnostic Scan Tool for Most Vehicles ... Amazon product


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Mr Olympik said:
I’ve not got a reader. Could order one from amazon for tomorrow, will this do what is needed?


Autmor OBD2 Scanner, OBDII Reader, Car Engine Fault Code Reader CAN Diagnostic Scan Tool for Most Vehicles ... Amazon product


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Click to expand...
No use OBD Eleven. Way better
 
RJ-8V said:
Check the gearbox module with vcds or obd11 and post a screenshot of it. The software number and version are important
Click to expand...

I accidentally cleared my error codes :(. Is this what you were asking for?

IMG 0984




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Mr Olympik said:
I accidentally cleared my error codes :(. Is this what you were asking for?

View attachment 195836



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Click to expand...
As the screenshot already shows. There is a software update available for your gearbox. My advice is also to update your engine software (if available and not tuned).

Find someone with Odis-E or VcP to update it. After updating do a calibration of the gearbox.
 
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Thought I’d update/conclude this thread.

The motorway run seemed to do very little but there was a marginal improvement.

I called the third party dealer to see what to do next. They told me that Cheshire Oaks Audi claim this is a known characteristic of the car and they all do it. However, when I took it to Audi Oldham and they couldn’t diagnose it. He told me that Cheshire Oaks have had many customers complain about the issue which caused them to investigate the issue and conclude it as a known trait. Perhaps Audi Oldham don’t have as much experience as Cheshire Oaks. Audi Oldham only opened about a year ago.

The third party dealer then went on to provide another B9 for me to test, he told me he has 2 in stock and they both do it. I had it overnight and could indeed replicate the same vibration while the car was cold.

We compromised on this. I was happy to keep the car if he can extend the warranty on the engine/gearbox for a year. I told him if he’s confident with what Audi told him then he has nothing to worry about. He agreed, the car is staying here for now.
 
I guess this is result and it does seem that this may well be a trait of the engine as fitted to your car and I'm sure it isn't anything that's about to fail if they've checked everything as they state they've done. It is one of the reason I won't purchase a diesel, as in my experience they vibrate a lot compared to my petrol especially the manual gearbox versions where the gear lever is more like a tingling stick, although I would expect the V6 to be smoother.
I hope you are satisfied with this outcome...
 
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Hi,

I’m reading your post from Hungary, and I’m about to buy the exact same car as yours. But I became unsure because today I took it for a test drive, and it did the same problem as you wrote. When the car was in Drive or Reverse and the parkingbrake was active there was a smooth and silky vibration.
You post about this same problem 3-4 month ago so I wonder how about the situation now? Do you still have the car? Can you please tell me some info, I would really appreciate it.

Thank you,
Georgina
 
Hi Georgina,

I still have the car and everything remains the same. It hasn't got any better or worse.
The thing I'm going to do next is having the software updated as I know there is an update available for the gearbox module (Self-diagnosed using OBDEleven). However, the current global situation means that Audi is closed for service so I have to wait.

The odd thing is, I've noticed that the harder I drive the car, the happier it seems. Sometimes if I'm particularly aggressive, there is no vibration at all. But this is still intermittent.

I don't know what else to suggest to you other than maybe go and test drive some other cars with the same engine/gearbox, just to be able to objectively compare. My mistake was rushing into the purchase as I really liked the spec and it was nearly within my budget.

How many kilometres are on the clock of the car?
 
Thank you for your answer.

124.000 km are on the clock.

We tried to ask around about the problem and somebody told us the Dual Mass Flywheel can cause this problem. Have the service checked the dual mass flywheel in your car?
 
124k is isn't that much for these cars. Based on research and advice from a couple of mechanics, I suspected the flywheel as well. The garage investigated and replaced my flywheel. However, it did not change anything and the vibration remained.

Other suspicions are engine /gearbox mounts, but this is unlikely as well due to the age of the car. The worst possible scenario is that the gearbox is faulty and needs to be replaced. That pretty much writes-off a car as they cost £10k.

As I posted before, I tried another 2.0L SE Avant with S-Tronic and it had the same vibrations. That car only had 45k miles on the odometer.
Mr Olympik said:
Thought I’d update/conclude this thread.
The third-party dealer then went on to provide another B9 for me to test, he told me he has 2 in stock and they both do it. I had it overnight and could indeed replicate the same vibration while the car was cold.
Click to expand...
 
Hm, very interesting. We are absolutely in doubt what we should do, buy it or leave it. The car and its price is perfect despite of this vibration. We try to arrange an appointment for service dealer on monday I hope they can confirm that the problem is not the dual mass flywheel or if it is, they fix it under warranty.

I let you know about the news on monday. thank you again, have a nice weekend.
 
georgina.horvath said:
Hi,

I’m reading your post from Hungary, and I’m about to buy the exact same car as yours. But I became unsure because today I took it for a test drive, and it did the same problem as you wrote. When the car was in Drive or Reverse and the parkingbrake was active there was a smooth and silky vibration.
You post about this same problem 3-4 month ago so I wonder how about the situation now? Do you still have the car? Can you please tell me some info, I would really appreciate it.

Thank you,
Georgina
Click to expand...
If you are unsure about the car walk, I would not purchase a car with that kind of mileage unless the warranty is cast iron. You have already notice one issue, which could be major is the DMF requires replacing so I would look elsewhere for a lower mileage vehicle..
 
georgina.horvath said:
Hm, very interesting. We are absolutely in doubt what we should do, buy it or leave it. The car and its price is perfect despite of this vibration. We try to arrange an appointment for service dealer on monday I hope they can confirm that the problem is not the dual mass flywheel or if it is, they fix it under warranty.

I let you know about the news on monday. thank you again, have a nice weekend.
Click to expand...

If you plan on taking it to Audi I doubt they will be any help. I took it to my Audi dealer and they had no idea.


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Mine does this too, 115k km on the clock, runs fine otherwise.
If I put it in P or N it stops immediately. It seams like the gearbox is keeping the clutch at marginal contact with the flywheel, like in the manual cars when you try to keep it in place with the clutch rather then the brake.

Did you do the gerbox software update? Any changes whatsoever?
 
If you had low gearbox oil because of a gearbox oil leak for a prolonged period of time the clutch material in the s tronic gearbox may have worn out much faster due to overheating.

It may have worn out enough to cause the symptoms you describe.

My car also had a gearbox oil leak at the sump which was picked up quickly. I was told The problem is the sump is plastic and the engine is metal and the gasket can’t keep up with the expansion. The sumps used to be metal. Apparently there are revisions for the sump.
 
Shouldn't the mechatronics adjust cluth wear on their own?
 
smog c6 said:
If you had low gearbox oil because of a gearbox oil leak for a prolonged period of time the clutch material in the s tronic gearbox may have worn out much faster due to overheating.

It may have worn out enough to cause the symptoms you describe.

My car also had a gearbox oil leak at the sump which was picked up quickly. I was told The problem is the sump is plastic and the engine is metal and the gasket can’t keep up with the expansion. The sumps used to be metal. Apparently there are revisions for the sump.
Click to expand...

Mechatronics and gears/clutches are two independent oil systems in which you service only the mechatronis oil via scheduled services.
I've heard about the leaks, and also that it's very minor and practically negligible because it's slow and expensive to deal with.
Both gear and mechatronics oil is monitored and the car would report it if low.
 
El_Me said:
Mine does this too, 115k km on the clock, runs fine otherwise.
If I put it in P or N it stops immediately. It seams like the gearbox is keeping the clutch at marginal contact with the flywheel, like in the manual cars when you try to keep it in place with the clutch rather then the brake.

Did you do the gerbox software update? Any changes whatsoever?
Click to expand...

That seems like an adequate description of the vibration, tbh.
I haven't had time to take it to get the software update as I haven't stopped working throughout the lockdown and most of the garages were shut as well.
I will keep this thread updated when I do the software update.

cuke2u said:
With a stronic that may suggest the clutches need a re calibration..
Click to expand...

They did a reset of the gearbox computer for it to re-learn my driving style... would this involve a calibration?

smog c6 said:
If you had low gearbox oil because of a gearbox oil leak for a prolonged period of time the clutch material in the s tronic gearbox may have worn out much faster due to overheating.
Click to expand...

They changed the gasket and did the gearbox oil service as well. However, they did mention that barely any oil had been lost. It was a very slow leak.
 
El_Me said:
Mechatronics and gears/clutches are two independent oil systems in which you service only the mechatronis oil via scheduled services.
I've heard about the leaks, and also that it's very minor and practically negligible because it's slow and expensive to deal with.
Both gear and mechatronics oil is monitored and the car would report it if low.
Click to expand...

The leaks are usually small but may go unnoticed for too long, I know of someone who had a gearbox malfunction error come up on the dash from these leaks and it’s not a negligible amount of oil lost. It’s not always obvious too as the under tray covers the gearbox
 
The same thing happens on my 2020 A6 Avant 40 TDI. It usually happens when the car is in P and is fired up from cold -after about 20 seconds the car makes alternate growling noises (like Grrrr Grrrrr Grrrrr) and a slight vibration. However all is well, once i start driving so rather than losing any sleep over it, I've assumed its just the way the TDI engines behave.
 
psychopomp1 said:
The same thing happens on my 2020 A6 Avant 40 TDI. It usually happens when the car is in P and is fired up from cold -after about 20 seconds the car makes alternate growling noises (like Grrrr Grrrrr Grrrrr) and a slight vibration. However all is well, once i start driving so rather than losing any sleep over it, I've assumed its just the way the TDI engines behave.
Click to expand...

Hmm. That’s slightly different as mine does it in D or R, but apparently there are a few cars out there that have this issue/characteristic.


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