My minor modding thread

[Tj 0785]

I can’t wait to drive mine when it’s finished, or should I say started need to give myself a kick up the ****

 

[IPG]

nice!!!!

.... i think experiment with deleting a resonator or two.... it's VR6 soundtrack is a tad muffled

 

[<tuffty/>]

So (@Prawn ™)... turns out that the issue with my clutch is GSF....

Despite using a Golf R32 reg number and them at least getting the correct clutch sent the DMF as it turns out is for a 2.8vr (4-motion) which is why it seemed to be dimensionally the same as a the 20v DMF...

The 3.2 DMF for the self adjusting clutch is different so fitting a SAC to a non SAC flywheel results in the issues I am having...

Solution... remove gearbox, swap clutch for a 20v clutch (will fit the Sachs 4 puck too) and job done... joy!

<tuffty/>

 

[IPG]

So (@Prawn ™)... turns out that the issue with my clutch is GSF....

Despite using a Golf R32 reg number and them at least getting the correct clutch sent the DMF as it turns out is for a 2.8vr (4-motion) which is why it seemed to be dimensionally the same as a the 20v DMF...

The 3.2 DMF for the self adjusting clutch is different so fitting a SAC to a non SAC flywheel results in the issues I am having...

Solution... remove gearbox, swap clutch for a 20v clutch (will fit the Sachs 4 puck too) and job done... joy!

<tuffty/>

Interesting.

That’s what im running - 2.8 flywheel and clutch kit. And still the s3 box hahahahaha

 

[<tuffty/>]

Wasn't aware of the differences tbh and as I ordered against an R32 I expected to get R32 parts... if they had sent the correct DMF then this would not be an issue...

Will get in touch with them and explain... the main issue being that the parts were ordered a while back and I no longer have the boxes but I might be able to get something back on the clutch... failing that I can sell it on and recoup something back

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

So.. (@Prawn ™) as you may have gathered the car now has her exhaust connected... more on that in a tick...

The replacement fan turned up the other week so fitted both new fans to the shroud

I had some flanges laser cut so I could make a joining piece from the VR downpipe to my existing exhaust...

The gap to fill...

Using some 2.25" stainless I quickly knocked up a Y pipe...

Which Alex welded up for me... due to it being more a stop gap to get the car on the road I didn't make the best job of cutting the pipe end on the flange and Alex had to do a number on the gaps but its functional and thats all it needs to be...

An offcut of 3" squished to form round the Y piece and a V-Band later...

...and bingo... one exhaust

Next job was to look at the PAS... the front cooler pipe is starting to show its age so bought a replacement...

The whole PAS is a bit of a PITA on this conversion... where the engine leans further forward the pipework is not really long enough... in a previous post I extended the reservoir feed hose to help move it away from the spinny things... this works fine but tbh it need extending and routing a lot better as it basically touches everywhere...

...and there is more it seems... while working on the car with the front off I didn't really pay too much attention to the cooler pipe knowing I was changing it at a later date...

Once I had fitted the new pipe it was evident that fitment was going to be an issue and something I didn't but probably should have thought about...

I could just strap it to the charge pipe or some other thing but tried a different approach by cutting up the old pipe and seeing if this little workaround would fly...

Seems plausible as a solution but needs a little work like swaged ends... will revisit that once I have had a think about it...

Next job...

Pretty sure that these have never been changed and are the 136k mile originals... certainly looks like I have had my moneys worth out of them

Nearly there... the clutch as mentioned before needs sorting... I have been sent the DMF for a 2.8 4-motion which uses the normal non adjusting 240mm clutch the 20v does... the clutch for the R32 is a self adjusting thing which I had to reset thinking it was this causing my fitment issues but as it turns out it is just a compatibility issue so I am fitting a 20v cover and Sachs 4 puck plate seeing as the box will have to come off again...

Sooooo (@Prawn ™) close to having her back on the road... still... she may not be able to move under her own steam but she does look rather good...

...and sounds f@cking awesome!!!



<tuffty/>

 

[Bluepower]

Very nice progress again Paul!! But why not just drop the whole belt driven PAS, and go for a electric-hydraulic one(like the MR2)? that way you can mount the pump almost anywhere, and not have to worry about being almost inaccessable like now

 

[<tuffty/>]

Very nice progress again Paul!! But why not just drop the whole belt driven PAS, and go for a electric-hydraulic one(like the MR2)? that way you can mount the pump almost anywhere, and not have to worry about being almost inaccessable like now

Rather not introduce another modification beyond OE that could provide a point of failure... the system as a whole works and I have been looking at PAS coolers a bit like this one...

....the solutions for both the cooler and the reservoir issues are fairly straight forward tbh... I could arguably use off the shelf parts from an R32 or 4-motion Golf but thats more expense for little gain at this time

Joys of engine swaps

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

So this happened...

The SAC unit with the fingers well and truly compressed :/

New Sachs plate with a low mileage 20v cover...

Clutch fitted

Fitted the gearbox back in...

Box is in... just need to sort a few other bits out... I need some where to place the catch can... so removed the plastic box that has the engine control relay in it and will sort a bracket out for that... I moved the relay into the trunking and will sort out a bracket to mount it later...

The next issue was what to do with the PAS pipe... I have this cooler jobber on its way but that won't help me with getting the car mobile just yet... so I have rigged the pipework up thusly....

...it will do for now and is pretty secure.... I had to trim the side panels a bit to clear the PAS pump pipe though and tbh it kinda hangs a little low so need to watch that and will look for a solution later..

Just as things started to look up I then noticed the instrument panel cover has developed a crack!!... no actual idea how that happened so will need to replace it with the one off my original cluster...

Bled the clutch and buttoned everything else up and..... it works!!... the car drove out the unit

...so washed her properly for the first time in over 4 months...

And drove her home....

...and of course started mapping the engine

The clutch needs a re-bleed as the pedal is not quite right but will do that in due course... checked her over again and so far seems leak free... I need to get the aircon re-gassed though as I need my creature comforts

Difficult to say at this time how well the engine goes as the map is still very much work in progress... all I can say is that its not fast lol... pulls very well up hills though.... drives exceptionally well considering though... Ignitron just works

Phew!... bit more to do obviously and of course the turbo to plan and buy the rest of the bits for but just happy to have the old girl home again

<tuffty/>

 

[S3AMJ]

Well done mate, brilliant work. Didn’t take long in the end


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[<tuffty/>]

Well done mate, brilliant work. Didn’t take long in the end


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Still only the beginning of the journey tbh... turbo will be the next challenge...

<tuffty/>

 

[S3AMJ]

Still only the beginning of the journey tbh... turbo will be the next challenge...

<tuffty/>

looking forward to seeing that happen.... which won’t be long judging by your progress. You at Bills tomorrow?


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[Tj 0785]

It’ll be done before mine Is anyway, I bet it feels slow compared to last time you drove it

looking forward to seeing that happen.... which won’t be long judging by your progress. You at Bills tomorrow?


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[hydro s3]

Excellent news. You have done a engine swap quicker than the garage I left mine into to get the k04 hybrid changed over.
What turbo are you going with for this build?

 

[<tuffty/>]

looking forward to seeing that happen.... which won’t be long judging by your progress. You at Bills tomorrow?


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No mate... Bank Holiday innit

It’ll be done before mine Is anyway, I bet it feels slow compared to last time you drove it

Lol... Yes... Feels slow compared to the A2 as well

Excellent news. You have done a engine swap quicker than the garage I left mine into to get the k04 hybrid changed over.
What turbo are you going with for this build?

My old GT3582...

<tuffty/>

 

[Tj 0785]

Same turbo as mine should be interesting to see how the results differ, is yours a gen 1 or 2 ? I think I might change the wheel in mine to a gen 2 one

 

[<tuffty/>]

Same turbo as mine should be interesting to see how the results differ, is yours a gen 1 or 2 ? I think I might change the wheel in mine to a gen 2 one

Bog standard vanilla as you like GT3582r... Non of this gtx or billet nonsense here

<tuffty/>

 

[S3AMJ]

Ah yes true that.... my days are all over the place dude catch you again soon


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[badger5]

is your fuel pressure what it proports to be? 15-20% too high fueling.
Did you flow check the 630cc at 4bar? (is it on 4bar still?)

 

[<tuffty/>]

is your fuel pressure what it proports to be? 15-20% too high fueling.
Did you flow check the 630cc at 4bar? (is it on 4bar still?)

Not checked the flow rate no... fpr is 3bar currently... (swapped the 4bar out)

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

Not much to report at the moment... have still got clutch issues and despite re-bleeding the clutch several times the pedal is still playing up... I now believe it to be either the master cylinder or the slave cylinder...

I am kicking myself tbh as I so nearly bought yet another slave to replace to already new one just in case all the messing about with the self adjusting clutch damaged it but it is what it is and so the easiest job will be the master cylinder as at least with the VR6 engine its easier to get to than with a 1.8t in there..

Just a case of removing the heat shield and bingo so a new one is on order... if of course that doesn't fix the issue then I guess the box will have to come off again and I will replace the slave... I can fit the gearbox cover plate as well as I forgot to buy one of those before swapping the clutch out... DOH!

The pedal feels perfect when the engine isn't running but after a few hundred yards the bite point seems to wander and the pedal will stay down too... this suggests the slave but there is no fluid leaking (it would drip out the bottom of the box...

I know that MC's fail quite regularly and mine is the original one so worth changing regardless...

I have also swapped out the clusters clear cover as the one on my color MFA'd dash developed a crack... it seems the clear section became detached from the black surround in one place and was under enough tension to cause it to crack...

...disappointing so swapped it for the one from my original cluster...

The generic oil cooler for PAS/Auto gearbox arrived... actually looks ok...

Need to fine somewhere to fit it and get some decent hose but should do the job to replace the OE pipe 'cooler' and means I can sell on the brand new pipe I bought to replace my corroded one...

I have driven the car a bit though... mapping is coming along but made difficult with the clutch issue in so much that I don't feel like driving too far or very often while its potentially going to leave me stranded...

VE table is getting close though... not too shabby considering how little I have driven the car... Ignitron just gets on with it...

Have been adding timing in a little at a time too as wasn't really sure where to start with that due to the nature of the engine... its feeling much more perky now though and running much cooler... was getting a little warm before but now its running nice and cool... need to get the aircon gassed too as this will help with the fans running at low speed..

Drives really well considering its low compression, short runner inlet and sucking through a FMIC lol... need to sort the clutch out though before I can go to town on the mapping...

Once I have everything settled I will be posting a list of parts I have used so far so that there is at least some more concrete info out there regarding this type of conversion for anyone else wanting to take it on.. Obviously my ECU experience won't be the same as others unless using Ignitron but every little helps to make up for the somewhat limited amount of info there is out there...

As for the turbo conversion... I have been having a few ideas about that too...

I am still trying to work out a decent way to use the manifold I bought with the wastegate I want to use... the positioning of the outlet is not ideal and I really do not want to spend loads of money on a tubular mani as most of the ones I have seen look pretty bad design wise with really long runners so have been looking at alternatives...

The standard exhaust manifolds actually aren't too bad as manifolds go... they have been used on the 2.8's as the basis for twin turbo installs in the past... and while a twin turbo setup would actually be pretty cool ignitron wouldn't be able to control two N75's so I had thought about using them as the basis of a manifold like this...

Adapting the OE manifolds this way would allow me to run top mount and give me a bit more flexibility on wastegate position too...

After a bit more research it tuns out that someone else had the same idea...

Looks to be using 2" nominal bore fittings rather than the 1.5" I mocked up with which is fine as the outlets of the mani are about 1.75"... so I am getting some flanges cut and will look into this as It will give me the benefits of top mount and wastegate position while possibly flowing a little better (in the mid range at least) than the turbo mani I currently plan to use...

<tuffty/>

 

[Tj 0785]

I’ve been looking into the twin turbo option and it seems it’s no easy way about it with rhd car as the steering gets in the way but if it’s do able I think I might go for it , I’m also looking into twin scroll aswell, a tubular manifold seems to be 1k plus if I was paying that much I would be wanting a twinscroll at same cost

 

[<tuffty/>]

If I had the inclination a twin turbo setup would be just a nice project to attempt tbh but I honestly can't be ar5ed lol...

I am sure a mani could be made to make fitting twin turbo on a RHD car easier but not going to be a cheap undertaking no matter how you look at it :/

<tuffty/>

 

[IPG]

Love that you are running a FMIC 9om am n/a setup!

How’s that down low torque eh??

 

[Tj 0785]

If I had the inclination a twin turbo setup would be just a nice project to attempt tbh but I honestly can't be ar5ed lol...

I am sure a mani could be made to make fitting twin turbo on a RHD car easier but not going to be a cheap undertaking no matter how you look at it :/

<tuffty/>

Yeah I doubt that a manifold like this is going to be cheap or easy

 

[<tuffty/>]

I think I could do something more elegant than that tbh but at least it fills the gap at the back LOL

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

Love that you are running a FMIC 9om am n/a setup!

How’s that down low torque eh??

Low down feels ok... will choke up top I would imagine... have to see as I will get her on the dyno once mapped NA as a baseline fo rthe turbo conversion comparison

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

Today I swapped out the clutch master cylinder....

Need to remove the heatshield to undo the pipe... easier with the VR rather than the 20v thankfully

Three nuts to remove the pedal assembly... (two here and one on top)

Tada!......

Disassembled the peddle to get the MC out... note there is a 'gasket' to seal the MC to the bulkhead... I wasn't aware of this and so didn't have a replacement...

So used a bit of sealant instead....

Bled the clutch up... pedal felt great... reversed the car out the unit... all good so far, drove off towards the gate and went for 2nd gear... pedal stayed down

Disappointing...

So I guess I will have to take the box out again and swap the slave as that is all thats left tbh...

While I was faffing I tried the turbo in the position the modded OE mani's would place it... looked pretty close but doable...

However.... seems to be far too many 'howevers' at the moment... there really is not enough room to get a downpipe 'safely'...

...again, disappointing...

Managed to get the car home ok... the pedal dropped a few times but pretty much drove everywhere in two gears... she is now parked up on the naughty step while I gather the rest of the bits I need and await a ramp slot...

Still... I managed to swap out my faulty connects 2 unit so I had music from my iPod on the way home so a win there at least

<tuffty/>

 

[Tj 0785]

There’s not much room is there i manifold was looking at getting but thought the room looked tight but it must be doable if it is on a mk4

 

[<tuffty/>]

Most of the manifold solutions are designed for LHD cars... the solution above would work if LHD as the servo etc would be out the way...

<tuffty/>

 

[Tj 0785]

The guy who makes it seems to think he can make them to fit rhd ( although he’s in hungry)but it’s a lot to pay out if it don’t fit

 

[<tuffty/>]

that in the pic as is looks like it wouldn't really be a nice fit for RHD tbh... most LHD mani's tend to sit the turbo in the middle... RHD tends to suit it more over to the gearbox side...

<tuffty/>

 

[Tj 0785]

That’s my concern I’m. Long way off worrying about that yet, when you hoping to start the turbo install

 

[<tuffty/>]

when you hoping to start the turbo install

be a little while yet I think tbh... still have stuff to buy and a clutch to fix... having a drivable car would be a start lol...

<tuffty/>

 

[killfame]

Had same experience with Clutch pedal on the floor last Year in April..... after few attempts Clutch master cylinder blew up and spit oil everywhere over exhaust mani heat wrap and turbo.. causing the car catch on fire...

 

[IPG]

However.... seems to be far too many 'howevers' at the moment... there really is not enough room to get a downpipe 'safely'...
View attachment 190098

...again, disappointing...

<tuffty/>

What if you had the DP coming down on the PAX side? No brake stuff to worry about on that side for RHD cars... otherwise the fitment of the tubular mani by that miguel dude gives excellent fitment... but mega bucks

 

[IPG]

after few attempts Clutch master cylinder blew up and spit oil everywhere over exhaust mani heat wrap and turbo..

At least we know it won't be this cuz the MC is new here!

 

[killfame]

At least we know it won't be this cuz the MC is new here!

Its very tricky and will last until the big problem appear in the last second... Nearly 30 minutes before that I had brake fluid on the floor mat under my legs and thought it was water from the 5 minutes Car Wash ... Ever since i'm still thinking of upgrading to an uprated aftermarket Cast Master Cylinder...

 

[<tuffty/>]

A little update....

I decided to order up some more bits ready for the turbo phase... ARP bolts are on their way and went for a Gen 4 Turbosmart WG45 gate with 7 psi spring..

Went Gen 4 over Gen 5 as they work and they are physically smaller then most wastegates which I hope will help with the (lack of) space issues... the lower part is essentially the same...

...but the top is smaller...

Next job was to take the box off.... again!...

...This is what the slave should look like...

...however this is what came out

Looks like it had over extended which is possible while I had the SAC on there... there is also a bit of a wear mark between a 1/4 to 12 and 12 in the pic... more on that later...

While there I also change the bleed block... only because I can and was a case of in for a penny etc...

The BHE engine with DGS didn't come with a gearbox plate so went and got one to fit as the box was off (again!!)

Normally you fit these before the flywheel... as I wasn't taking the flywheel off (more bolts, more money!) I just slit the plate and fitted it that way..

Replaced the transfer box seals as they have seen a few too many gearbox swaps...

...and all back together

Long day and rather tired but clutch felt good after not a lot of bleeding... however... a mile or so down the road and... the pedal stuck down again... ***!...

Pretty much drove home in 4th... slept on it and went through the pics trying to make sense of it all...

My gearbox (an R32 GQV code) is the later 02M design with the black plastic cap on the main shaft bearing... these boxes are know to have a bit of play in the main shaft and after some research and chatting with some people I know have experience of these boxes I believe I have way too much play...

The shaft moves very noticeably in and out where the play is typically less than 1mm (the shims that people fit are 0.65mm)

What I think is happening is that the shaft has enough play that its not centering the plate every time allowing the spline hub to touch the slaves inner sleeve as I occasionally get a little squealing noise which I thought was the accessory belt but it 'interacts' with the clutch pedal and this only happens just before the pedal takes a dive... As the slave is seeing a bit of force and heat it gets all flustered and then this issue occurs...

I will be removing the cap at the weekend and checking the play to confirm but in the mean time I have bought yet another gearbox... ideally I wanted to find a DRB code box (2.8 4-motion) but ended up with an FQV which is apparently a 2.8 4-motion box but the later type like my R32 box... not sure how I feel about that but knowing what I now know I at least stand a chance of testing if its a good one or not...

So there we are... clutch issues aside the limited amount of time I have had driving the car have been mostly great (as long as I don't have to change gear) and the initial mapping of the VE map is mostly done...

Its evident that having the smaller intake and drawing through a FMIC is having an effect on VE higher up the rev range... this was to be expected as obviously for NA tuning you want the flow in to the engine to be as unimpeded as possible (still ideally want that for forced induction too but boost overcomes most of that and pressure drop over the charge air system is typically a few psi tops on a well built setup)... I have a tweaked map to try and will run that to make sure trims are settled then look at playing with the VVT to see if I can improve low/midrange a bit... I am not overly fussed about top end power at this time as the goal was always to go turbo and so is arguably irrelevant while in the NA setup...

Once the new gearbox arrives I plan to actually strip it down, do the fork mods and check all the bearings etc especially the main shaft ones... really hoping this one will be ok so I can fit and forget... the old one will be striped and inspected once off and see what can be salvaged as either a spare or for use by my mate who is planning to put a V5 motor into his Mk4 Ibiza...

<tuffty/>

 

[LostEnigma]

Tuffty, posting here as requested with my questions..

I forgot to mention that I will be using a Gen 1 TT 3.2 ECU BUT DARN THING WAS A DSG

1) I am also planning to use the S3 standard 14pin plug with the 3.2 engine side connecting to it. So I just want to make sure that I must take the speedo cables out my original harnness and tap it into the 14pin plug? I think there are pins in the way though, any ideas on that?

2) Pin 1 on the Fan control module is the the wire that controls the After run pump on both the 1.8t and the constant run pump on the 3.2.. I do not understand 100% what you meant when you said: " I just took the original pin for the S3 after run pump... only reason I re-pinned was down to the VR pump seemingly running a thicker gauge wire so I had a spare wire available so used it... the TT loom had the correct plug etc for the after run pump so I just left that as is... ". Does that mean nothing needs to be done for this pump or what should I do?

THANK YOU!