Camouflaged Remap

[MatkenRS3]

Morning all.

Next mod has to be a remap, only thing is I don't wanna screw my warranty up.

I have seen where you can get the map removed prior to servicing etc, but I really don't have time to be doing this and additionally if anything happens to the car and it needs to go for work I don't want them finding the map.

Have you folks seen anywhere where the map can be disabled easily?

Thanks, Mat

 

[Callump01]

Hi Mat,

You may get a bit of backlash when mentioning keeping your warranty and a remap in the same sentence here. Audi are hot on their toes about these remaps and in my opinion there's truly no way to disguise one - even if you went to the extreme of getting a spare ECU fitted. There are so many data points logged in these cars that, although tempting, I just don't think it's worth it given the cost of a new engine should yours go pop.

Removing the map prior to servicing will still leave traces of it. Your flash counter will have gone up (that is the thing they will easily notice) and on further inspection there will be other data points in your car that wont match, such as boost being pushed above stock levels.

You can try it on with Audi by all means, but I would very much be prepared to fit the bill in the unlikely event that it goes wrong.

Best of luck.

 

[GW1]

Hi Mat,

You may get a bit of backlash when mentioning keeping your warranty and a remap in the same sentence here. Audi are hot on their toes about these remaps and in my opinion there's truly no way to disguise one - even if you went to the extreme of getting a spare ECU fitted. There are so many data points logged in these cars that, although tempting, I just don't think it's worth it given the cost of a new engine should yours go pop.

Removing the map prior to servicing will still leave traces of it. Your flash counter will have gone up (that is the thing they will easily notice) and on further inspection there will be other data points in your car that wont match, such as boost being pushed above stock levels.

You can try it on with Audi by all means, but I would very much be prepared to fit the bill in the unlikely event that it goes wrong.

Best of luck.

No backlash from me. You are absolutely correct when it comes to data logs. Audi will easily prove you have tampered with the ECU. A friend of mine had standard A3 engine go pop and the bill was north of 17k, so good luck.

 

[DW81]

Abt supply a map for the rs but this is warranted through there company and not through Audi I believe, however sit down when you look at the cost of it compared to another generic stage one map from a third party tuner.

 

[JM 772]

Hi MatkenRS3,

I had a chip tuning box by JFAutomotive in Parkwood, Kent. They custom tune it to suit your individual car & it was equally as good as a remap. with the box you get a Jumper to plug in to the loom once you unplug the tuning box, it shows no fault codes at all. i personally removed mine totally before taking it into Audi as it has its own loom, takes 10 mins to take off & the same to reinstall it, i highly recommend it.

 

[EVO855]

I work at the dealers.

If we initiate an Odis warranty check it will search in-depth for any ecu modifiers

We are also told to visually inspect for other potential signs in the engine bay.

Once Audi flags your chassis number /Ecu with a TD1 you’ll be on your own.

Only way to stop this happening is to ask your tech who is doing any work to not let Odis connect to Audi Germany.

However even this is not 100% as we are now routinely being told to check ‘certain’ cars as they come in.

 

[Terminator x]

TD1 flag can't be avoided. Pays your money takes your chances.

Tuning box perhaps the way to go as it can be removed before a service etc and imho impossible to flag by Audi if you just deny all knowledge.

TX.

Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk

 

[Gazwould]

Interested in EVO's TB1 opinion .

 

[A3SBQ]

Interested in EVO's TB1 opinion .

Yes, but if there is an warranty clame/issu! The ODIS protocol scan is needed and sent to Audi/VW Germany. This is the ONLY way to get the car approved for warranty work paid by the factory!
So there is no way to fool the system.
You pay for the game. So if this is not for tiy then stay stock or buy an other car with more Power.


Sent fra min SM-G955F via Tapatalk

 

[Gazwould]

Exactly my thoughts .

ODIS sees all .

 

[EVO855]

Yes, but if there is an warranty clame/issu! The ODIS protocol scan is needed and sent to Audi/VW Germany. This is the ONLY way to get the car approved for warranty work paid by the factory!
So there is no way to fool the system.
You pay for the game. So if this is not for tiy then stay stock or buy an other car with more Power.


Sent fra min SM-G955F via Tapatalk

Correct sir.

If it’s a major warranty claim, Audi will analyse the ECU logs of Gearbox / Engine

The gearbox does log the torque values over a period, we don’t know how long that period is though.

It’s difficult to 100% say in the engine bay whether connectors have been disturbed, unless the owner has damaged them in some way, but even then there can be other explanations for connectors being unplugged.

Everything now is recorded via AudiCam so if the car has other visual modifications they will be picked up on, Audi aren’t stupid I can tell you.

You will read online about people saying they’ve been into the dealer after the tuning box has been removed with no issues, that’s correct yes, for service work, but warranty work does require us to run Odis checks beforehand.

Another tech at a different dealer told me about an Ara Blue RS3 that was literally 5-6 months old and had come in for it’s ACC radar to be fixed, turns out the reason was the front bumper had been off to fit an uprated cooler, Audi clocked it on the cam and the dealer charged the owner for the works, they also put a TD1 against his Chassis number.

 

[Slowracer]

It’s interesting how these scanning tools can be so sophisticated to detect minor modifications yet seem to be lacking when it comes to picking up and resolving problems and glitches reported to Audi during services.

It seems that Audi is investing a lot of resources in avoiding warranty expenses (and scamming the world with emissions software) rather than investing that energy in customer service and support.

 

[EVO855]

It’s interesting how these scanning tools can be so sophisticated to detect minor modifications yet seem to be lacking when it comes to picking up and resolving problems and glitches reported to Audi during services.

It seems that Audi is investing a lot of resources in avoiding warranty expenses (and scamming the world with emissions software) rather than investing that energy in customer service and support.

Problems and glitches are one thing.

However trying to get a remap past Audi on a major component that’s failed because it’s moved the engine / gearbox away from the standard spec, is an entirely different situation.

Not all techs at dealerships want to jump on the voiding warranty bandwagon, however there are situations where owners aren’t entirely honest with us.

A remap isn’t a minor modification as it generally puts excess strain only engine/gearbox/drivetrains, yes you can argue that there are ‘margins’ built into components, however Audi will only warrant on factory tolerances.

 

[paulmc]

Another tech at a different dealer told me about an Ara Blue RS3 that was literally 5-6 months old and had come in for it’s ACC radar to be fixed, turns out the reason was the front bumper had been off to fit an uprated cooler, Audi clocked it on the cam and the dealer charged the owner for the works, they also put a TD1 against his Chassis number.

Was there any reason to suggest the owner caused the radar to fail, or is it a case of "you remove the label" (so to speak) and your warranty is void?


What about the cars return to Audi that have been modded then put back to stock and sold on as approved used? I know a chap who has done this on sever occasions. What’s happens to the new owner when they have a claim?? Do Audi remove the TD1 flag when selloing as approved??

 

[EVO855]

Was there any reason to suggest the owner caused the radar to fail, or is it a case of "you remove the label" (so to speak) and your warranty is void?


What about the cars return to Audi that have been modded then put back to stock and sold on as approved used? I know a chap who has done this on sever occasions. What’s happens to the new owner when they have a claim?? Do Audi remove the TD1 flag when selloing as approved??

The owner had it remapped / cooler installed then after that the ACC threw errors, bumper only has to be a fraction off.
The car was brought in with all mods still in place.
No case to argue I’m afraid.

I know of 1 case of a car that had been put back to ‘stock’ by an owner before part ex.

New owner had a warranty claim on a knackered engine because of a faulty injector refused as Audi HQ found evidence of the map.

I believe the dealer had recourse with the 1 st owner as it was a PCP deal.

There’s talk at certain dealerships now of including a signed ‘no modification’ clause on higher performance models, because they are being caught with this more and more, 1st owners that PCP them and increase power then put the car back to standard.
It’s bad news for the second owner as usually they are the ones to be left with all the issues.

You do not get many owners holding their hands up at part ex time saying yes it’s mapped etc, because most of the time the dealer won’t want the car and can’t retail it from the forecourt.

 

[paulmc]

The owner had it remapped / cooler installed then after that the ACC threw errors, bumper only has to be a fraction off.
The car was brought in with all mods still in place.
No case to argue I’m afraid.

I know of 1 case of a car that had been put back to ‘stock’ by an owner before part ex.

New owner had a warranty claim on a knackered engine because of a faulty injector refused as Audi HQ found evidence of the map.

I believe the dealer had recourse with the 1 st owner as it was a PCP deal.

There’s talk at certain dealerships now of including a signed ‘no modification’ clause on higher performance models, because they are being caught with this more and more, 1st owners that PCP them and increase power then put the car back to standard.
It’s bad news for the second owner as usually they are the ones to be left with all the issues.

You do not get many owners holding their hands up at part ex time saying yes it’s mapped etc, because most of the time the dealer won’t want the car and can’t retail it from the forecourt.

That’s a real worry for the 2nd or 3rd owners etc. Signing something would be tricky as well. You may be the 2nd or 3rd owner and owner 1 mapped it and put it back to stock so you would have no idea it was ever mapped. Messy. I think Audi should as a matter of course scan them before re-sale if they intend selling with a warranty.

 

[EVO855]

That’s a real worry for the 2nd or 3rd owners etc. Signing something would be tricky as well. You may be the 2nd or 3rd owner and owner 1 mapped it and put it back to stock so you would have no idea it was ever mapped. Messy. I think Audi should as a matter of course scan them before re-sale if they intend selling with a warranty.

I agree it’s tricky, but there are more and more owners covering these things up.

Same as the owners that have a crash / prang in a car then get it fixed as cheap as possible without letting on at part ex time, even after signing the no accident damage disclaimer you get when they take your car in.

We see cars that are badly repaired and even then the owner is denying it when 1) they are the one and only owner 2) we pull parts off a car to show them the manufacturing date is after the car left the factory.

 

[CWD]

I agree it’s tricky, but there are more and more owners covering these things up.

Same as the owners that have a crash / prang in a car then get it fixed as cheap as possible without letting on at part ex time, even after signing the no accident damage disclaimer you get when they take your car in.

We see cars that are badly repaired and even then the owner is denying it when 1) they are the one and only owner 2) we pull parts off a car to show them the manufacturing date is after the car left the factory.

That works both ways though dealers are natorious for poorly fixing cars and retailing them without informing the buyer

 

[EVO855]

That works both ways though dealers are natorious for poorly fixing cars and retailing them without informing the buyer

Some are maybe.

But from experience it’s not all one way.

I’d say there are more dishonest customers than dealers.

People don’t want to pay for anything.

 

[Terminator x]

Exactly my thoughts .

ODIS sees all .

With a tuning box removed though if the owner just denies anything what can they do? Yes we have weird logs Sir but you say it has remained standard from new ... surely a tough one for all parties?

TX.

Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk

 

[EVO855]

With a tuning box removed though if the owner just denies anything what can they do? Yes we have weird logs Sir but you say it has remained standard from new ... surely a tough one for all parties?

TX.

Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk

As you say not cut and dried, but if the gearbox is regularly seeing torque figures well above factory spec along with boost psi / bar figures that the standard map could never make, they’ll be suspicious.

 

[Matt2010]

@EVO855 - do you see many cars damaged by remaps and if so, do they seem more affected than stock cars?
Would you remap your own car knowing the warranty issue?

 

[Gazwould]

TB1 is suspected tuning with a tuning box , so once flagged...

 

[EVO855]

@EVO855 - do you see many cars damaged by remaps and if so, do they seem more affected than stock cars?
Would you remap your own car knowing the warranty issue?

Not damaged per say, but the EVO Daza engine can have weak wrist pins, which is reportedly down to a bad batch.

There are more failures of the Daza than people realise, usually due to excess torque levels.

One thing I will say is to let the engine get to full operating temperature (oil I’m saying) before giving it any stick.

 

[Slowracer]

Some are maybe.

But from experience it’s not all one way.

I’d say there are more dishonest customers than dealers.

People don’t want to pay for anything.

I certainly wouldn’t doubt that, I’m in the pay to play camp. I certainly wouldn’t be bitching to Audi that my engine blew just because My tuner told me that my 600hp was safe. I’m sure there are plenty of dishonest individuals out there on both sides of the camp. Its when a dealer is trying to blame minor mods for a known problem, ie. problems seemingly known by everyone else except the dealer, that’s when things get sticky.

IMO Audi is missing a huge opportunity by not offering their customers approved performance enhancements. I’m sure that many would be happy to pay a premium to get a factory certified enhancement to their cars.

 

[Deleted member 133011]

I certainly wouldn’t doubt that, I’m in the pay to play camp. I certainly wouldn’t be bitching to Audi that my engine blew just because My tuner told me that my 600hp was safe. I’m sure there are plenty of dishonest individuals out there on both sides of the camp. Its when a dealer is trying to blame minor mods for a known problem, ie. problems seemingly known by everyone else except the dealer, that’s when things get sticky.

IMO Audi is missing a huge opportunity by not offering their customers approved performance enhancements. I’m sure that many would be happy to pay a premium to get a factory certified enhancement to their cars.

I needed a prop shaft change under warranty and they tried saying it was damaged because I was using non Audi discs and pads(EBC I had on). I laughed at them and said can you explain to me how that would happen. It got done under warranty after that conversation!

Also needed the pre sense camera changing as it was throwing up a fault. I had an aftermarket tow bar fitted to the car and 6 months down the line got a fault. They said it was the tow bar. I said it wasn’t as you could see a burst mark on the camera like something had exploded. It was the heater element on the camera to stop condensation on the glass. 5 months down the line nothing was happening so they said I had to disconnect the tow bar electrics and recode it back to how it was. So I done that, they re tested it and said it needs a new camera as the heater element had gone!! I’ve been telling you that for 5 months you idiots!!!! Had nothing to do with the tow bar.

And the answer to all of the problems. Don’t worry we’re going to do this as a goodwill gesture! Not because it had broken under warranty, because they were being nice!

Oh and they smashed one of my wheels up and tried denying it, shame they didn’t realise the camera’s front and rear of them taking the car out and hitting the kerb. Again didn’t own up to it after seeing the footage and done it as a goodwill gesture.

Problem is your talking to advisers that haven’t got a clue about the cars so they just feed you rubbish. I told them they need to get their heads out of this Audi bubble they all seem to live in. They kept waffling on about their master mechanics and how they are the best, bla bla bla bla.

Sorry for the rant, if feel much better now.

I’m sure some Audi garages are excellent

 

[zaka7]

Long and the short of it is do not map or tune your car in anyway if you do not want to pay should it all go wrong especially if it is on a PCP, I too have heard stories of owners being come at after trading in to foot the bill, it is a breach of contract and you have nowhere to go.

There is a chance you could get away with it, but with the tech dealers have these days it is seemingly getting slimmer by the day. I just wish the ABT Sportsline tune wasn't £5k with a warranty covering £10k tops!!! as some said above, Audi could make a killing selling factory approved tunes that don't affect the warranty!

 

[paulmc]

I am in the slowracer camp (pay to play). I do all my own work anyway. don’t trust anyone.

Tune a PCP car if you like just don’t take it to the dealer.

Unless you are that guy on YouTube with the M3 (M4 cant remember)no-one will ever know. Dealer won’t want to terminate the contract as they will lose your interest payments, that would be bad business. He was on a 0% deal I guess that’s why BMW did it. Still seemed a strange thing for BM to do. Anyway, that’s another story.

 

[EVO855]

I needed a prop shaft change under warranty and they tried saying it was damaged because I was using non Audi discs and pads(EBC I had on). I laughed at them and said can you explain to me how that would happen. It got done under warranty after that conversation!

Also needed the pre sense camera changing as it was throwing up a fault. I had an aftermarket tow bar fitted to the car and 6 months down the line got a fault. They said it was the tow bar. I said it wasn’t as you could see a burst mark on the camera like something had exploded. It was the heater element on the camera to stop condensation on the glass. 5 months down the line nothing was happening so they said I had to disconnect the tow bar electrics and recode it back to how it was. So I done that, they re tested it and said it needs a new camera as the heater element had gone!! I’ve been telling you that for 5 months you idiots!!!! Had nothing to do with the tow bar.

And the answer to all of the problems. Don’t worry we’re going to do this as a goodwill gesture! Not because it had broken under warranty, because they were being nice!

Oh and they smashed one of my wheels up and tried denying it, shame they didn’t realise the camera’s front and rear of them taking the car out and hitting the kerb. Again didn’t own up to it after seeing the footage and done it as a goodwill gesture.

Problem is your talking to advisers that haven’t got a clue about the cars so they just feed you rubbish. I told them they need to get their heads out of this Audi bubble they all seem to live in. They kept waffling on about their master mechanics and how they are the best, bla bla bla bla.

Sorry for the rant, if feel much better now.

I’m sure some Audi garages are excellent

I prefer the common sense approach when presented with a warranty job, I'll not report any modification, but there are always managers etc that will spot things and aren't as forgiving.

I hear comments like above on a regular basis from people about inept diagnosis of problems which are clearly 'just' a failed component, nothing sinister at all, yet some dealerships clearly hate warranty work, probably because they make better money on other things, warranty represents a lot of hurdles to jump through and if certain criteria isn't met they don't get paid.

 

[Terminator x]

Audi seem sensible to me re warranty work as my car had AP Racing brakes (clear mod) yet I still got a new headlight under warranty as the 2 weren't linked. Maps however I guess lead to engine warranty etc being thrown away. As others have said though surely if there is an issue with a modded part you wouldn't go back to Audi?

TX.

Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk

 

[EVO855]

Audi seem sensible to me re warranty work as my car had AP Racing brakes (clear mod) yet I still got a new headlight under warranty as the 2 weren't linked. Maps however I guess lead to engine warranty etc being thrown away. As others have said though surely if there is an issue with a modded part you wouldn't go back to Audi?

TX.

Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk

That's a common sense approach yes.

Brake upgrades like you mention serve to only really improve on the factory set up.

I think most owners would never try to approach a dealer with a failed modification, although there are cases where owners 'standardise' a car, then take it into a dealership to get repairs done to a problem that could be attributed to the modification that was on there beforehand.

People don't mind paying £600 upwards for re-maps etc, yet if it came to the 15-20K for a new Daza engine that's a different story entirely, especially if the car is on a PCP.

 

[Anthony Brichart]

In Switzerland with Abt , the Audi dealer is only authorized to do the modification. And you conserve the original Audi warranty . I would be tempted to do it but for the Dnwa engine (2019 with gpf) it’s 6500 gbp for 70 more ps ( inter cooler and tune ) !

 

[AudiNutta]

@EVO855 Will say this first, your knowledge and position is an unusual one for us on the forum and your input will be greatly valued and I trust will educate a lot of us.

I enquired about the consequences of fitting lowering springs, I’d accept all suspension components being void but I got told that my warranty would be void as far back as the gearbox “due to excess vibration”?

 

[EVO855]

@EVO855 Will say this first, your knowledge and position is an unusual one for us on the forum and your input will be greatly valued and I trust will educate a lot of us.

I enquired about the consequences of fitting lowering springs, I’d accept all suspension components being void but I got told that my warranty would be void as far back as the gearbox “due to excess vibration”?

Apologies but I won’t be drawn into a ‘my dealership told me this’ it’s up to individual owners to assess how much the risk is to them.

 

[Beebee-one]

@EVO855 Will say this first, your knowledge and position is an unusual one for us on the forum and your input will be greatly valued and I trust will educate a lot of us.

I enquired about the consequences of fitting lowering springs, I’d accept all suspension components being void but I got told that my warranty would be void as far back as the gearbox “due to excess vibration”?

Up until recently I have had the advantage of knowing the service manager at my local Audi dealer for many years. All of my new Audi's have be modified virtually from just beyond the run in period and I have made no attempt to hide it from the dealer. My current car mods are known and the service techs were happy to do oil, brake services and other maintenance without flagging my car as TD1. Had I blown a turbo or busted the gearbox then it's pretty much no chance of any warranty support but I have always accepted this but was happy to not have the car logged as TD1 (even though I sell them on as a modified car). However, my trusted service manager (who has recently moved on) recently tipped me off that Audi are tightening up on warranty work on performance models. Dealers are now expected to perform comprehensive checks on cars before doing any warranty work, any modifications are often a reason for certain types of repair/replacement to be refused (as described by AN above). Diagnostic software has also been enhanced so that cars that are hooked up to the 'mothership' in Germany can quickly be processed and anything that deviates from expected factory settings can be further examined. I was told this now includes detecting the suspected fitting/removal of tuning boxes (hence the TB1 flag) which results in some interesting discussions if the dealer does not want to do the repair work and Audi GmbH wont sanction it. Yes there are some special circumstances (you bought the car as a used or nearly new from the same dealership for example) where the dealer will accept responsibility but Audi are definitely taking a tougher stance on cars with mods.

 

[EVO855]

Up until recently I have had the advantage of knowing the service manager at my local Audi dealer for many years. All of my new Audi's have be modified virtually from just beyond the run in period and I have made no attempt to hide it from the dealer. My current car mods are known and the service techs were happy to do oil, brake services and other maintenance without flagging my car as TD1. Had I blown a turbo or busted the gearbox then it's pretty much no chance of any warranty support but I have always accepted this but was happy to not have the car logged as TD1 (even though I sell them on as a modified car). However, my trusted service manager (who has recently moved on) recently tipped me off that Audi are tightening up on warranty work on performance models. Dealers are now expected to perform comprehensive checks on cars before doing any warranty work, any modifications are often a reason for certain types of repair/replacement to be refused (as described by AN above). Diagnostic software has also been enhanced so that cars that are hooked up to the 'mothership' in Germany can quickly be processed and anything that deviates from expected factory settings can be further examined. I was told this now includes detecting the suspected fitting/removal of tuning boxes (hence the TB1 flag) which results in some interesting discussions if the dealer does not want to do the repair work and Audi GmbH wont sanction it. Yes there are some special circumstances (you bought the car as a used or nearly new from the same dealership for example) where the dealer will accept responsibility but Audi are definitely taking a tougher stance on cars with mods.

Exactly this.

 

[Slowracer]

@EVO855 Will say this first, your knowledge and position is an unusual one for us on the forum and your input will be greatly valued and I trust will educate a lot of us.

I enquired about the consequences of fitting lowering springs, I’d accept all suspension components being void but I got told that my warranty would be void as far back as the gearbox “due to excess vibration”?

And you will void the warranty on your seats as well due the wear of extra g forces you will be pulling through corners with new suspension.

 

[EVO855]

And you will void the warranty on your seats as well due the wear of extra g forces you will be pulling through corners with new suspension.

I'm assuming you've had a bad experience of Audi dealerships then ?

You seem very critical of them.

 

[SO8]

As you say not cut and dried, but if the gearbox is regularly seeing torque figures well above factory spec along with boost psi / bar figures that the standard map could never make, they’ll be suspicious.

I am guessing Audi uses FASTA data like BMW to detect changes from standard ?

A map will show increased boost / advanced timing, etc in the FASTA data but a tuning box fools the ECU so it won't show that. I had forgotten the gearbox torque ! FASTA would show gearbox torque running a lot higher and that's your warranty gone I guess.

I have a BMW but it is staying standard. I have mapped cars outside warranty but put them back to standard before I sold them. Hadn't really thought re the next owner and a used warranty for them. Oops !

 

[TYb]

Up until recently I have had the advantage of knowing the service manager at my local Audi dealer for many years. All of my new Audi's have be modified virtually from just beyond the run in period and I have made no attempt to hide it from the dealer. My current car mods are known and the service techs were happy to do oil, brake services and other maintenance without flagging my car as TD1. Had I blown a turbo or busted the gearbox then it's pretty much no chance of any warranty support but I have always accepted this but was happy to not have the car logged as TD1 (even though I sell them on as a modified car). However, my trusted service manager (who has recently moved on) recently tipped me off that Audi are tightening up on warranty work on performance models. Dealers are now expected to perform comprehensive checks on cars before doing any warranty work, any modifications are often a reason for certain types of repair/replacement to be refused (as described by AN above). Diagnostic software has also been enhanced so that cars that are hooked up to the 'mothership' in Germany can quickly be processed and anything that deviates from expected factory settings can be further examined. I was told this now includes detecting the suspected fitting/removal of tuning boxes (hence the TB1 flag) which results in some interesting discussions if the dealer does not want to do the repair work and Audi GmbH wont sanction it. Yes there are some special circumstances (you bought the car as a used or nearly new from the same dealership for example) where the dealer will accept responsibility but Audi are definitely taking a tougher stance on cars with mods.

So they should, it really p’s me off that people think it’s acceptable to mod a car then return it to stock for servicing, warranty and selling on, some poor sod will end up with a lemon as a result.