I have a 2015 Audi A3 2.0L Quattro. Bought the car CPO last year. About 3 months later, I had the steering rack replaced under warranty. about a week ago, my car stopped and shut off at a stop light. Had the car towed to Audi dealer. Dealer informed me the engine is dead (piston issue, no compression). I said Ok, is the CPO warranty going to cover it? Dealer said no, the car is flagged T23 (Same as TD1) because it has a tune on it. I said, not possible, because I didn't touch ECU. Dealer said the T23 code was picked up during steering rack replacement last year. So the question is, since the steering racks on these cars need to be married/coded/etc.. to the car, is there a chance that some part of this procedure made Audi's automatic detection that runs in the background think this is an ECU tune rather than an update due to steering rack replacement?
Can steering rack replacement coding cause T23 code?
- Thread starter 2K158VA3
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I doubt it, ideally you need to have the ECU checked for tuning, that will be definitive & if it's not, then show the dealer, simples.
DJAlix
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No. A steering rack replacement requires special coding procedures to be completed for our cars. Coding, Adaptation and Parameterisations need to be completed using the official VW Group Service tool, what’s known as SVM or software version management, something which cannot be completed by 3rd party tools. TD1 and T23 (the latter of which I am not personally aware of) denote non-standard hardware and or software. If this was the case with your steering rack then the replacement procedure would not have completed, returning part or control module “not valid for vehicle” related error messages.
The first stage of any Audi technicians works, after fitting a seat cover, would be to connect up your car to the VW Group Network and run an automated procedure / special function called “warranty information”. This procedure goes away and collects information about your car and then add’s related flags / code if deemed necessary. In other words your car was flagged for whatever reason before the steering works where completed, unless the tech was not doing his job correctly. Audi should be able to give you a “solid” reason as to why the car has been flagged and need to supply evidence to back this up.
According to here https://forums.ross-tech.com/showthread.php?18508-Warranty-Keys-Facts-TD1-etc a T23 applies to a powertrain tune...
The Dealer said that the T23 was the same as the TD1. If it's not, and in this case not an ECU change, what exactly is a powertrain tune?
The Audi dealership said that they don't know why it was flagged T23. They said that the scan runs in the background, and then just shows a report, the Audi dealer does not actually know what it's doing, and how it determines the car should be flagged. So the dealer says it's on me to prove I didn't tune it. But if I don't know how this flag is determined, how can I prove I didn't do anything?
DJAlix
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The onus is on the dealership to prove that the vehicle was modified outside of its operating specifications and present clear reasons as to why they will not honour any warranty. If the dealership cannot supply the information needed then they need to raise this with their support or indeed the factory for the answers.
They point to the T23 key as their reason for not honoring the warranty. Dealer says the key was added by the automated scan and can not be added manually. They said that it was identical to the TD1 key. When the car was flagged, the car had nothing but aftermarket springs, otherwise completely stock. If I would have known it was flagged, I would have fought it at that point, since it was only 3 months after I bought it. now almost a year later, at 23k miles, I have a blown motor and the dealer says I have no recourse.
And I really appreciate the insight from everyone on this.
A change to the powertrain could suggest possibly a TCU update but that's as far as my technical knowledge goes. As @DJAlix states, the onus is on the dealership to prove what they are stating and I would challenge them on this. I would also ask for the car to be examined by an independent and neutral engineer at their cost...
Dealer Says No, they have a scan they did before certifying it CPO that is clean. It got flagged with T23 during my steering rack replacement.
DJAlix
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It was popping when turning from one side to the other.
DJAlix
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Yeah, too bad. I actually joined this forum because I saw some of your other knowledgeable coding posts and though you may have an idea on this issue. I've reached out to AudiUSA with the question "can the t23 warranty key be added by an Audi service technician manually", but I haven't heard back. This is really the key to my situation, because I don't see how the car would otherwise be flagged since I've never chipped/coded it.
Flying Scotsman
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I think a point to make is since the car was CPO prior to your purchase, was a scan done by the Audi dealer to look for engine mods, etc. If so, show me the paperwork for the scan and flagged item, not just the dealer stating we did it. If they say we can not supply that paperwork, you are off the hook.
That CPO is normally not very thorough though the say it is hundreds of items checked. That I find hard to believe.
That CPO is normally not very thorough though the say it is hundreds of items checked. That I find hard to believe.
They have a scan from before they sold the car as CPO. The next scan was performed when I came in to get the rack replaced. The problem is, the dealer does not know what the scan is doing, or how it determines that the car has a tune. The scan itself does not show what it's doing, nor does it show that it flagged anything. The flag apparently happens when the Offboard Diagnostic System Scan finishes, it pushes it's data into elsapro (Another piece of sofware), which than shows any warranty keys that were flagged during the scan. So there is an abstraction layer that does not allow you to see why any given warranty key was flagged.
