My minor modding thread

[<tuffty/>]

Partz....

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

Had a lucky break this weekend where Bill had a ramp free soooooo

Was so close to pulling the engine out but....

The new Meyle doughnut I fitted a year a go when I changed the gearbox (after the transfer box exploded) appears to have had a moment and shredded itself.... the 'cord' that I assume is used as part of the strengthening has spilled out over the bolts (this is the engine side but the tunnel side is the same) and effectively hidden the bolts and no matter what I tried (including fire!) would clear enough space to get a socket on the bolt to enable me to get the prop disconnected and the engine/box out...

So called it a day and plan to disconnect the prop at the CV joint in the middle and pull the front part of the prop out with the engine/box so I have more space to hack the thing off with a disc cutter

Please note that I haven't launched the car since fitting the replacement box and have probably done less than 3000 miles... so the doughnut will be replaced with a rather more expensive OE one

In other news....

I went yolo on the exhaust manifold as I remember what a pain it was to wrap and had found a couple of cracks around the wastegate pipe so Bill welded that up for me and I made a couple of strengthening pieces to add a little upport and got the mani ceramic coated... this is the same process and material as Zircotec use but with a black (ish) ceramic colour added to prevent finger prints being so obvious as the white finish picks up dirt just be looking at it

Engine will be out and as stripped as I can get it in the time I have tomorrow and I can pull together a list of the remaining parts I need and make a start of building the new engine

Will post an update tomorrow with a few more pics...

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

Early start... although technically wasn't due to the clocks going forward but it still felt like 7.30am...

After yesterday's motivation killer (the doughnut of doom!) I started simple by modding the mounting bracket for my PC's CPU cooler which was a little restrictive flow wise...

Bit of grinding, flap wheeling and of course painting (felt good....)

...all about the flow

Anyhoo... I know this is not car related but after being mildly demoralised by yesterdays 'progress' this made me feel much better and so started on the car with a bit more positivity... and a Maccies double sausage and egg McMuffin...

Access to the prop doughnut bolts was next to impossible with it having spilt its guts everywhere... I had even taken the subframe off to gain a little more access but gave up on that idea in the end after having an epiphany in the shower... I'll just disconnect the prop at the centre CV and pull the front half of it through with the engine/box.... this will give me as much access as I can get to the doughnut to remove it..

On the subject of doughnuts it appears that the rear one has been hungry...

Bit of welding and a tactical adjustment required..

Bit of faffing moving stuff out the way and...

Bill attacked the doughnut...

...while I put the car back together and continued to discover little gems that the old girl has been hiding from me...

Next problem was how to get the doughnut off the prop...

Did consider the disc cutter again but....

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!... aaaaaaaaaaaaaand done!

Put the car back together as much as I needed to...

...and mounted the engine onto the stand...

Big thanks to Bill for keeping the ramp clear so I could get this done and for his help this weekend... I am pretty much broken... a desk job does that to you (and getting older too lol)

Few more parts to collect and I need to strip this engine down so I can get the new block sorted out...

Knackered but happy that my PC will run a little cooler... oh and that I have made some progress on the car too

<tuffty/>

 

[Prawn]

Good stuff PT!

Nice to see you getting some motivation back for it!

That's bizzare about the prop donut. It's almost like it's tried to eat itself!

Mind you, there are some unbelievable forces going through it when you're deploying 32psi of GT35 at it!

 

[Bluepower]

Bill is a very brave man for holding the axle grinder like that.... I've seen too many fingers get lost that way...
Luckely you have made some progress, Paul!

 

[badger5]

Bill is a very brave man for holding the axle grinder like that.... I've seen too many fingers get lost that way...
Luckely you have made some progress, Paul!

haha. i know what you mean.
firm grip, gentle pressure on cutting.
all 10 digits present & accounted for

 

[superkarl]

it seems there may be a market for aftermarket prop donuts

 

[<tuffty/>]

Moar partz..

Have most of the parts now to crack on... Need to get a block bored and sort a clutch next...

The A2 is in need of a bit of tlc too which is typical

Gotta love cars..

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

So... This happened ..

<tuffty/>

 

[S3AMJ]

The build thread continues.... exciting news mate. Look forward to see where this one is going


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[Tj 0785]

Ii thought you would go this route when your went and bill bought the tt I thought that might twist your arm, I think everyone will go this way the 3.2 sounds awesome, slap a turbo on it and it will be even better but like I said to you mines going to cost me around 10k that’s a lot to spend on a 2k car, luckily my misses thinks I’m only spending 2k haha

 

[Vex182]

Oh no! Haha it's happening! Why the sudden change when the 20v is nearly rebuilt or is it because of the head?

 

[<tuffty/>]

Oh no! Haha it's happening! Why the sudden change when the 20v is nearly rebuilt or is it because of the head?

The time seemed right.... not started to build the engine.. turns out the exhaust valves were actually bent and wasn't the seats being cut wrong at all so looks like the exhausts kissed the pistons a tad when the engine let go...

Have spun a few up and some are ok, others not so would look to replace the lot if rebuilding...

To be honest while having a 620hp 20v sounds great (and feels pretty great to be fair) its at a cost... I was close to losing a hefty investment due to a component failure....

The cost to rebuild was looking to be around the 1500 mark which all things considered was fine... but the VR engine sound is just so intoxicating and given what I could get back from selling the useful parts from my 20v then it was more now or never...

I want to run less power and have a cruiser more than an edgy b*lls out monster but reducing the power on a 20v seems a little pointless.. I love my car and the special part is the fact its an OE looking 20v install with 620hp... somehow a 450hp 20v doesn't sound as special

Obvs OE will be a little out the window with this but you never know...

<tuffty/>

 

[S3AMJ]

Just put the 20v engine cover on, it’ll be fine... haha. You planning on rebuilding the VR6 checking it over completely or just putting it straight in Tuffty?


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[<tuffty/>]

Just put the 20v engine cover on, it’ll be fine... haha. You planning on rebuilding the VR6 checking it over completely or just putting it straight in Tuffty?


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Depends what its like when it arrives... will do the chains regardless but for the time being it may go straight in untill I have sold off all my 20v bits and worked out what I need for the turbo conversion...

I don't plan to go silly... new shells, spacer gasket, bigger injectors, cast exhaust mani etc... will consider rods and exhaust valves too...

Current plan is for it to go in as NA for the time being and then turbo later...

<tuffty/>

 

[Vex182]

Depends what its like when it arrives... will do the chains regardless but for the time being it may go straight in untill I have sold off all my 20v bits and worked out what I need for the turbo conversion...

I don't plan to go silly... new shells, spacer gasket, bigger injectors, cast exhaust mani etc... will consider rods and exhaust valves too...

Current plan is for it to go in as NA for the time being and then turbo later...

<tuffty/>

Sounds like a plan, this means my car will be a little faster than yours for a small period of time haha.

 

[<tuffty/>]

Sounds like a plan, this means my car will be a little faster than yours for a small period of time haha.

Thats ok... the A2 would have you anyway

<tuffty/>

 

[Rainbird]

Not really a fair comparison - the A2 is a Big Turbo build though, relative to the NA at least

 

[superkarl]

Put the 20v in the A2


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[S3AMJ]

Depends what its like when it arrives... will do the chains regardless but for the time being it may go straight in untill I have sold off all my 20v bits and worked out what I need for the turbo conversion...

I don't plan to go silly... new shells, spacer gasket, bigger injectors, cast exhaust mani etc... will consider rods and exhaust valves too...

Current plan is for it to go in as NA for the time being and then turbo later...

<tuffty/>

Sounds good! going to run it off the ignitron Ecu as well?


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[<tuffty/>]

Sounds good! going to run it off the ignitron Ecu as well?


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Yep

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

Sad day but needs must...
Parts available here...
https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/1-8t-engine-parts.388163/

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

Soooo... it begins

A BHE lump from a TT

6 speed manual box from an R32

Timing chain kit...

HGP cheap (relatively) copy turbo inlet manifold... which is actually rough as a rough thing...

Turbo exhaust manifold... (70 quid from Ali Express)...

LuK Clutch and DMF...

So... first job the inlet manifold... the VR 24v inlet mani market is a little sparse... and they tend to be stupidly expensive or not so expensive... so I went not so expensive... and bought a lemon!...

The casting was the roughest thing I have seen in a very long time which isn't really a big issue as I can spend a little time refinishing it... the biggest problem however was that it was still full of casting sand!...

I tried power washing it out, followed by using the hot power wash and lastly the aqua blast... only the aqua blast unit made any inroads and only then at the bits I could manage to point the nozzle at...

Soooooo... taped up round the plenum....

...and cut in half

As you can see... thre is still sand stuck to the inside... this would not have had a very good ending...

The flat lump on the plenum made for a decent place to fit the MAP sensor (which also has an IAT sensor built in so less holes to drill)...

The OE ECU for the R32/TT VR6 doesn't have MAP and IAT is measured in the MAF... the OE management is also narrowband... as I am using Ignitron I am using speed density like before so MAF less and a MAP sensor in the inlet plenum after the throttle body..

The casting is nice and thick here so didn't need to add weld or a boss to make sure the o-ring seal worked... the MAP sensor I am using this time is a 3bar one rather than a 4bar one as I don't intend to run much more than 1bar of boost plus the 3bar reads down to around 14kpa vs the 27kpa the 4bar does... as I am not running cams my vacuum should be a little lower overall...

The inlet mani also has a nasty step on three of the ports... so I blended those in a bit while I was at it...

After a few rounds of blasting in the Aqua Blast unit all the sand was finally removed... nice bit of irony using media to remove 'media'...

The rough state of the casting was also apparent on the inside as well as the outside....

...so did a little work on that too... not going for the best finish in the world as tbh that takes forever for little to no gain but tickled it enough to smooth things out a bit better

...I think this may present a small boost leak though...

The casting is rather thick... which of course is a good thing... but to get decent penetration (fnarrr) I chamfered the edges ready for welding...

Next job was to pull the injectors... wanted to test them to know the exact flow ready for adding to the map calibration...

They were a bit mucky so cleaned them up a bit... the o-rings are a little hard too so could do with replacing...

Once the inlet is done I want to get it powder coated so decided to take the cam cover off too so I could get that done at the same time...

Hummmm... not the worst I have ever seen but still....

Cam cover was aso a little tarnished but again have seen plenty of 20v's worse than this...

A trip round the cleaning stations later and...

...the top needs a slightly higher pressure and a bit more work to clean up nicely but it will be blasted prior to powder coating anyway so not really too worried about it..

The nice thing about the VR cam cover is the PCV separator unit is plastic and removable... this means I didn't have to worry about the media getting places it shouldn't and of course being plastic it would need to be removed for the powder coat process anyway...

After a little research on oil feeds for the turbo it seems that you can tap out of the oil filter housing where this blanking cap is...

The thread should be 10x1 so I can keep the factory oil pressure switch where it is as space looks very tight for a T piece there due to the plastic coolant pipe running above it and fit my oil pressure sender and T piece in the capped area using a 10x1 banjo for the oil feed line to the turbo...

Need to check to size of the hole etc to ensure there is enough flow but as I am using a ball bearing turbo the oil flow should be fine...

A lot of people reuse the R32's 75mm throttle body but it is a very bulky item and room is very tight... as I still have my 70mm TB from the 20v I decided to use that instead... its already proven at decent power levels on my 20v so I will reuse it on the VRt...

I have worked out the wiring I need to do to get the engine running... I just need the smaller ecu plug part of the loom from the TT which I have access to... I then need to add MAP, IAT and N75 wiring in to this plug and configure Ignitrons inputs/outputs accordingly as the ignition/injector mappings are different to the 20v..

I can retain the larger plug loom of the 1.8t which will give me EGT and wideband lambda...

I need to buzz all the wires through first though once the engine is in to double check the pinning and that I have configured Ignitron correctly... will post the mappings up once I know they are right and of course I am working with Brian as usual to get this type of conversion documented correctly

My plan at the moment is to get the engine in and running as NA... the turbo conversion will happen later..

The main reason for this is time (the lack of it)... getting the engine in and running is relatively easy as its more or less a bolt in job... the issue with doing the rest of the turbo conversion is mainly to do with fabrication... this inevitably takes time and typically requires ramp time... this is something I can't really expect Bill to give me at a whim and he is very very busy.... so...

After seeing the state of the head I have decided to take the head off, clean it or get it cleaned and refurb it... I will replace the exhaust guides and valves for either Mk5 VR stainless or supertech's (more likely as they are inconel)... I will most likely get the head face resurfaced and then use an 8.9:1 head spacer gasket... I will of course replace the stem seals and re-lap the valves in...

I have a new timing chain kit to fit and will clean the sump and oil pump plus replace the oil pump drive shaft as these have been reported to fail occasionally...

I will run the std exhaust manifolds and downpipe but use just the one lambda... this will just need something knocked up to join it to my existing exhaust system and can be done quickly and easily... however...

...as the state of the bottom end is currently unknown then that could change of course... I will be checking the bores once the head is off... if it all looks good then I will do compression and leak down tests once the engine is back together...

I am told the engine was running fine before it was taken out of the car and the reason for parting out was that the DGS's mechatronic unit was goosed...

I don't plan to run big boost so cylinder pressures should be loads lower than the 32psi I was running on the 20v... mapping wise the plan is for a less aggressive delivery and get boost rising with revs... this should help reliability and give the car a nice drive while still feeling powerful... and of course sounding awesome

Next thing on the list is the gearbox... I will be sorting the forks out like I did in my 20v box...

<tuffty/>

When ready to turbo the car I just plan to replace the big end shells with Mk5 VR sputter bearings and use ARP bolts on the std rods... I realise the irony in that the reason I am at this point is due to rod failure but... at this time I really don't want to disturb the pistons/rings in the bores

 

[Tj 0785]

Il have to check my inlet manifold see if it’s as bad as yours, that’s a good shout with the map sensor position, did you find any more about which clutch plates will work?, I take it your using standard dmf and clutch

 

[<tuffty/>]

Il have to check my inlet manifold see if it’s as bad as yours, that’s a good shout with the map sensor position, did you find any more about which clutch plates will work?, I take it your using standard dmf and clutch

I am indeed using a std DMF/Clutch... I was going to use a sachs 4 puck off my old setup but as I have no idea when I will be finishing the turbo conversion I would rather not have a lightly worn plate for when I do...

I haven't really looked at any other clutches as yet however I did speak to various people at Autosports this year regarding road friendly twin plate setups... I plan to follow that up shortly

<tuffty/>

 

[Tj 0785]

Will you be heli coiling the manifold to screw the map sensor down? how much would you say it would cost to weld the manifold back up so I know if I’m getting ripped off locally? Does the 4bar map sensors bill sell have iat sensor in them aswell as well?
Sorry for the 1000 questions ha

 

[Tj 0785]

Would you use a tig or mig welder when to do the manifold and intercooler pipework ?

 

[<tuffty/>]

Would you use a tig or mig welder when to do the manifold and intercooler pipework ?

Tig...

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

Bit more done today... stripped the rest of the old block ready to get the VR onto the engine stand...

With the crank out the damage to the block was obvious...

The shells looked pretty good but the shock find was the mains caps.. they all came off fine and I placed them on the side to deal with later... when I picked them up to inspect them number two cap just fell apart!..

I have no idea if this contribute to the rod failure or the rod failure contributed to the cap failure but given it was in once piece when removed, was cap 2 (between cyls 1 and 2) and cyl 4 had the rod failure I suspect the latter but if the rod hadn't failed would this have at some point? more than likely...

End of an era...

....and the start of a new one

This is the compression reduction head gasket... drops the CR to 8.9:1...

Hoping to have the engine split from the DSG box it came with and on the stand tomorrow so I can pull the head...

<tuffty/>

 

[Tj 0785]

Are you still planning on running it NA for a bit? will changing the compression on a Na effect anything

 

[<tuffty/>]

Are you still planning on running it NA for a bit? will changing the compression on a Na effect anything

Yes and probably

...it may get me motivated to sort the turbo conversion but tbh it can't be any worse than driving the 20v off boost on the GT35 and I was ok with that...

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

Todays mission was to get the engine separated from the DSG box that came with it (and no... I won't be using it... ) and onto a stand..

She's a big ol' lump fo sho....

The DQ250 uses an 02Q transfer box... I need to check what manual boxes the later R32's use as this could be an option should I ever need a replacement..

A little unbolting of things later...

The DQ250 is a heavy old beast... seems heavier than the 02M...

A little bit of man handling and a fair few flywheel bolts later....

The stand is rated to 570kg but that didn't seem to stop it 'flexing' a bit!!... eeep!

On the subject of gearboxes... I have decided to leave mine standard for now... trying to do the least amount of mods at this time to focus on getting the engine where I want it... the box will need to come back out when I go turbo anyway so will leave any mods until then...

So for now I just cleaned it up and slapped the transfer box from my S3 on with one bolt to keep is all together..

The gear change bracket is different to the 20v one... it uses a third threaded hole on top of the bell housing to secure... and by thread... I mean no thread as it seems the one in this box has stripped... so a helicoil will be deployed later...

Next I did a test fit of the inlet manifold... while its still in half it actually made things a little easier to see which is just as well as the joy of cheap inlet manifold ownership continues....

Bit of a fitment issue by the hoist bracket...

...and a bit close to the serpentine belt tensioner the other end... The standard mani bolts are a bit too long too... the one in the pic had bottomed out...

The dipstick will also need a hole drilled and tapped to secure... but the bracket sits a little higher than I would like so will mod that later so I can drill into the thick part of the casting..

A hacksaw and flap wheel later...

....and we have clearance Clarence...

I have shortened the bolts to suit...

After that I cleared up the mess I had made to keep everything together and drained the oil from the engine in readiness to pull the sump for a clean..

I have been steadily making a list of parts I am going to need which seems to be getting bigger by the day lol... latest part to add to the list is the oil cooler which seems to have taken a hit at some point in its journey to me and is leaking...

The hose is also damaged so will need to get one of those too...

Called it a day at that point... I have the week off so plan to do a bit more to the engine.. the head needs to come off and get sorted and I am sourcing injectors as its evident the 610cc ones Bill normally sells are not going to be suitable and I will need to get some with the long nozzle as the longer runner inlet injector 'boss' has quite a long route into the port and the spray pattern from normal short nose injectors is going to hit the sides and blob fuel in..

I think I have found the right ones (630cc long nose Bosch) but just need to check the specs...

<tuffty/>

 

[voorhees]

Yay more cylinders

 

[Warsuperior]

I agree you on sounds! Just love VR6 engine but IMHO I like 5cyl bit more and that is most likely my next upgrade if I break the 4cyl one
Lovely to see your builds happening and lots of luck!
BTW check parts too on X-Parts.de if you look decent priced stuff and faster shipping than China, they have decent quality too.

 

[Tj 0785]

I agree you on sounds! Just love VR6 engine but IMHO I like 5cyl bit more and that is most likely my next upgrade if I break the 4cyl one
Lovely to see your builds happening and lots of luck!
BTW check parts too on X-Parts.de if you look decent priced stuff and faster shipping than China, they have decent quality too.

Thats where I got my inlet manifold from same as tufftys one, and I have to cut the thing open because it's full of loose bits inside, would of destroyed my engine if tuffty didn’t point it out

 

[Warsuperior]

Thats where I got my inlet manifold from same as tufftys one, and I have to cut the thing open because it's full of loose bits inside, would of destroyed my engine if tuffty didn’t point it out

Okay, Didnt know that. I agree that my own manifold finishing was rough inside, thats a minus but other parts I have had no problems at all.

 

[<tuffty/>]

Bit more done today....

Drilled and tapped holes to secure the MAP sensor in the inlet...

Then drilled and tapped for the vacuum outlets...

Drilled and tapped the fixing point for the dipstick...

...and helicoiled the gearbox fixing point for the change cable bracket

...also... this happened...

I need to do some finishing on the mani now and check for pinholes which can happen plus there needs to be a 2nd pass on a couple of areas... I also need to drill and tap for the 70mm throttle body but once done it can be taken to be powder coated along with the cam cover...

I then started stripping the engine down some more...

A little bit mucky and soooooo many bolts to remove.... but can now get to the timing chains

...and the oil pump...

Then spent a bit of time cleaning stuffz...

More tomorrow

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

So yesterday I took this off...

Everything on this engine is either bigger or more... 20 (yes 20!) head bolts... 7 of which are longer!

Bottom end looks pretty good considering the engine has done nearly 100k miles..

Little bit of carbon build up on the top of the bores but nothing that a little wd40 and a rub wouldn't sort out...

There are no ridges at the top of the bore from the rings and the honing is still very much visible so happy days.... the pistons clean up ok too..

The bottom end can wait though as I needed to get the head stripped ready for guides and a skim.. so gave it a clean...

A bit different to what it looked like earlier...

The VVT setup is a little more complex than the 20v but its not too bad once you get into it..

Once all that lot is off the cams are accessible... took the inlet cam off first... M8 studs are a nice touch and a little more sturdy than the 20v's M6 bolts....

Once the cam is off you can gain access to the rocker gear... solid bit of kit with a hydro lifter...

With both cams and all the rockers removed I then removed the valves...

AS you may notice on the right I used a bit of card to keep all the rockers in the order they were removed... the rockers would be ok to use in any order but felt with nearly 100k miles it would be better to keep the hydro lifters in their original positions

I will be replacing the exhaust valves with either supertech or OE MK5 items... I am currently sorting prices for the supertechs..

The inlets will be reused... VR6 valves are quite odd... they have a number of normal length valves in the outer rows and the centre rows have longer stems!

....so I cleaned them...

Next job was to clean the oil pump...

While this was off I also replaced the pump's drive shaft from the intermediate shaft... these have on occasion failed from what I have read and was cheap enough not to worry about renewing..

It just pulls out and you then just slot the new one back in...

The pump came up nicely and I ran a bit of oil through it to prevent any potential for corrosion while I build the engine...

Finished by cleaning the valve springs and tidying up...

The head had been dropped off at the head guy in the afternoon and he reported back saying the guides won't need changing which is nice so will just be getting the head lightly skimmed to clean it up...

Busy day but getting lots done

<tuffty/>

 

[Tj 0785]

****** hell( forgot blood y is a swear word on here) Your flying through it nice to see one taking shape, unlike mine ha

 

[hydro s3]

At this speed it won't be long until you have it all built back up.