So I’ve done some reading up on general tuning of the ZF8 box and it seems that the tuning is mostly down to changing the shift points. I.e where in the rev range that the box shifts up or down and in addition to this it raises the torque limits. Which presumably is of no use to anyone who hasn’t tuned the engine to suit.
There’s nothing that I can see that would improve the perceived lag from moving off which is obviously mostly down to the issues inherent with a torque converter.
I’m going to give it much more mileage efore I deliver my final verdict but I think at best this is going to be a very subtle change rather than anything that dramatically changes who the box behaves and feels.
I fear those hoping for BMW levels of responsiveness are going to be disappointed.
There’s nothing that I can see that would improve the perceived lag from moving off which is obviously mostly down to the issues inherent with a torque converter.
I’m going to give it much more mileage efore I deliver my final verdict but I think at best this is going to be a very subtle change rather than anything that dramatically changes who the box behaves and feels.
I fear those hoping for BMW levels of responsiveness are going to be disappointed.
DarkyUK
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Only if I want someone else to try to tell me how my own car feels to drive. As per his earlier posts in the thread there’s no feedback from RS5 owners. Only S5
I did ask for further information earlier in the thread but didn’t get any so I’ve looked into the tuning of this box myself from other sources.
Besides I bought from TMC they invented it. ABYSS is a reseller and I have a feeling that most can’t tell us much about the technical aspects of what this actually does.
TMCs own guys exactly expansive on it either.
Perhaps the shift point map isn’t as different on the RS5 as it is on less powerful models.
I did ask for further information earlier in the thread but didn’t get any so I’ve looked into the tuning of this box myself from other sources.
Besides I bought from TMC they invented it. ABYSS is a reseller and I have a feeling that most can’t tell us much about the technical aspects of what this actually does.
TMCs own guys exactly expansive on it either.
Perhaps the shift point map isn’t as different on the RS5 as it is on less powerful models.
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DarkyUK
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@Evil Derboy I was more suggesting for some insight on what it does and what to expect, each to their own though!
As per my post further up I’ve already got that information and already asked for it earlier in this thread and didn’t get it. So sought it out from TMC directly and elsewhere.
Just send back if you aren't happy.
I have one with a tuning box (on a lowly Q5) and has been very noticeable. I added the tuning box and ran with that for a few weeks and adjusted it to suit my driving and then added the TCU+ and have really noticed the difference especially at lower speed such as approaching roundabouts etc. As you say in this thread, maybe only suited to the stronic in lower spec cars and not RS Models
Agreed, possibly the gearbox on the RS5 has a different map to that of the S4 running the same...
Mine was definitely noticeable. Especially at slower speeds, downshifting and also the shift points when the gearbox is in 'S'.
You have to make sure you're not expecting too much when the gearbox is cold (when the revs are limited on cold start) as it's still really slushy then. Once warmed up I noticed my tune straight away. The other point I would make is to check the car is actually in 1st gear when you're pulling away because mine only seems to drop to 1st if I'm in Dynamic mode, in anything other than that (or manually shifting it down) it starts from 2nd which makes the lag worse...
You have to make sure you're not expecting too much when the gearbox is cold (when the revs are limited on cold start) as it's still really slushy then. Once warmed up I noticed my tune straight away. The other point I would make is to check the car is actually in 1st gear when you're pulling away because mine only seems to drop to 1st if I'm in Dynamic mode, in anything other than that (or manually shifting it down) it starts from 2nd which makes the lag worse...
Well, the fact that they make one for the RS suggests that it must be doing something. But without someone showing me the comparison between shift point maps for each mode and torque limits, I can't tell what it is. If the "shift-speed" that is referred to is actually just down to how soon or how late in the rev range that the box changes gear then that's never going to cure the lag that people speak of, however if it's actually down to how quickly the box can engage a gear then that makes sense. If it's the latter, I'd like to see the figures from stock to tuned.
I'm not going to send it back because once the TCU is reprogrammed it can't be reversed without a trip to the dealer and as I said, I've not made my mind up without getting more miles under my belt, I'm simply saying that jury is still very much out for me and the fact that there's no published figures (like a remap that shows torque and bhp increases) it makes it harder to know what to actually expect or what is going on.
I'll look at that but I can say that in stock tune mine never pulls away from 2nd in any mode. If it does now I'll be majorly ****** off!
I'm not going to send it back because once the TCU is reprogrammed it can't be reversed without a trip to the dealer and as I said, I've not made my mind up without getting more miles under my belt, I'm simply saying that jury is still very much out for me and the fact that there's no published figures (like a remap that shows torque and bhp increases) it makes it harder to know what to actually expect or what is going on.
I'll look at that but I can say that in stock tune mine never pulls away from 2nd in any mode. If it does now I'll be majorly ****** off!
Is Andrew from DTUK on these forums? Maybe he can provide some insight to mine and Evil Derboy's feedback.
I'm speaking to TMC at the moment as well so I'll let you know what they say.
I had a similar issue to you, when I first installed the tmc unit I did feel a slight difference but after about 2k miles of waiting for it to bed in it did seem to get a bit better but still had its days where it would feel standard.
Another issue I mentioned on this forum was the launch control not feeling as savage as it was prior to the flash - the rev points changed from 3500rpm to 3200rpm and the result was a less responsive launch (ironically it did pull away quicker just by flooring it where as before it was quicker when launched)
So this was in May and since then I did Re flash a few times out of frustration. Eventually I haven't done it since September and the last time I flashed it I did actually feel a noticeable difference for once.
One thing I've noticed is the actual plug where the tool goes in to in my car feels a bit flimsy and I noticed that the tool did begin to beep even when it felt like it wasn't plugged in properly.
Have u spoke to tmc yet? I told them at the time and they said they'd never heard of the issues I was going on about especially regarding the launches.
I don't know what the rs5 gear shift points are but know that in stock form has the same torque as my tuned 272 tdi when it was standard.
Overall I'd say I do now feel a better difference but the consistency isn't always there - the car does still have its moments unfortunately.
Fair enough. Maybe it's an RS specific thing to downshift to 1st all the time because my '62 plate s-tronic A4 defaulted to starting in 2nd like my S4 auto, and the A3 and A5 s-tronics I drove not long go did it as well? Must just be the RS models.
I agree with the comments about technical data being helpful.
Like I said in my first analysis of this product, I can detect some of the shift points having moved and the responsiveness in manual mode being better but other than that its difficult to say much more (2018 S4)
Like I said in my first analysis of this product, I can detect some of the shift points having moved and the responsiveness in manual mode being better but other than that its difficult to say much more (2018 S4)
TMC arent keen on giving me specifics on what their box actually does or how it works as they want to protect their IP. I'm not sure that I 100% buy that - a description of what the tune is doing isn't the same as an explanation of how it's doing it. It's a bit like saying "sorry Mr customer we can't tell you what the new BHP figure on your remap is going to be in case others copy our tune".
They also asked if I had followed the bit in the instructions about coming to a safe stop and then accelerating through the rev. range when safe to do so. Which is quite interesting as there is no bit in the instructions about this!
"This is really good and will give you more responsiveness in your gearbox"
"Great! How does it work?"
"It will UNLEASH your gearbox"
"Superb! What does it do"
"Changes the tune"
"How does it work"
"We can't tell you"
"OK. What does it specifically do to my gearbox"
"Can't tell you that either"
"Well I can't see any difference"
"Really? Well its really important you follow the instructions to the letter. Have you done XY & Z?"
"Well XY & Z can't be that important as it's not actually listed in the instructions...."
I'm starting to think I've spent 300 quid on a bottle of snake-oil.
The video is interesting - there evidently are software applications (another one is referenced in the clip) that can re code the transmission (I'm amazed if its not encrypted in 2018 tbh and that infers difficult/impossible to overwrite). The US chap is clearly skating between a cursory understanding and several buckets of BS, you chaps may draw a different conclusion of course.
That's interesting to know because I don't think that they informed Andrew at DTUK that you were supposed to do this either... I think that I need to flash mine again and try it to see if it actually makes any difference at all! Not that I see why it would, but you never know.
OK. So have just confirmed this with them. In the supplied instructions it says
STEP 7 - After 5 mins of idle you can now drive the vehicle using the full rev range and in all gears and modes, in both sport and manual. The vehicle will now begin the adaption phase and adjust to the new upgrade.
The above to me reads that "after 5 minutes of idle you can now utilise the full rev range in all gears as you please." but what it actually should read as is this:
STEP 7 - After 5 mins of idle you should drive the car away and accelerate through the gears from 1-8 in each and every mode (Drive, Sport & Manual).
I quote directly from the email response from TMC:
"Best way is to find a quiet road stop then rev using the rev range like above. Of course slow down when it becomes unsafe and start again. Do this a few times after the install then every so often while within the 80-100 miles adaption phase.
Reinstall the tune and start from the beginning. Trust me you'll notice the difference. Overtime it'll get even better."
STEP 7 - After 5 mins of idle you can now drive the vehicle using the full rev range and in all gears and modes, in both sport and manual. The vehicle will now begin the adaption phase and adjust to the new upgrade.
The above to me reads that "after 5 minutes of idle you can now utilise the full rev range in all gears as you please." but what it actually should read as is this:
STEP 7 - After 5 mins of idle you should drive the car away and accelerate through the gears from 1-8 in each and every mode (Drive, Sport & Manual).
I quote directly from the email response from TMC:
"Best way is to find a quiet road stop then rev using the rev range like above. Of course slow down when it becomes unsafe and start again. Do this a few times after the install then every so often while within the 80-100 miles adaption phase.
Reinstall the tune and start from the beginning. Trust me you'll notice the difference. Overtime it'll get even better."
DarkyUK
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Thats really good to know @Evil Derboy as I read that exactly the same as you when I read the instructions, will make sure I do that when I install mine, most likely next week after the side assist radars are recalibrated.
I would be interested in your results. I assume this applies to all the gearbox tcu tunes...
Don't know when I'll get the chance to do it, Derboy might be quicker with feedback but I'll get on it at some point.
Only issue is that with the DTUK box as well, if I'm going through multiple gears to the redline the car overcomes the brakes and last time I ****** them on the back roads... Haha. Just use fewer gears maybe.
WTF, full throttle all the way to 8th gear!? isn't that like 140mph?
Not surprised they left that bit out of the manual - Basically telling you to go directly to jail if you do this on a public road.
Not surprised they left that bit out of the manual - Basically telling you to go directly to jail if you do this on a public road.
Doesn't say full throttle. Just says accelerate through the gears immediately after the programming is complete. You don't need to be doing 140mph to be in 8th gear. It also says that you can stop and start again. It sounds to me that its not an exact science, just a case of making sure the gearbox is getting a good workout across different gears and rev ranges.
Still skeptical but given that I did the tune on my drive and then just switched the engine off after 5 minutes of idling so I could try it out later, hopefull this procedure will kick start things a bit.
Same for me. Didn't interpet the instructions that way at all. Worth a try if i can find a road quiet and straight enough .. Need to move to Scotland.
ditto to the instructions. sounds like need to re-apply the tweak then go for a night time "drive"
If only I had the roads to be able to do this, the traffic here has an average speed of 23mph. Even if I went out in the middle of the night the roads are still full of HGV's or drivers incapable of moving faster than 40mph in a 60 limit it seems..
OK. Not long back in. Reversed out the drive and sat ready to go. Followed the flash procedure and then after 5 minute idle I drove away out of the estate in D driving normally till I hit a fairly, long straight and reasonably quiet road then gunned it. Then slowed and then gunned it again. This was followed by more sensible driving onto a Dual Carriageway where I gunned it a bit more and then changed into S. Then proceeded to drive well beyond license losing speeds. Got to Currys. Bought a new hoover then set off home. Same dual carriageway put it in M drove like a lunatic before getting off the dual carriageway and back into D where I proceeded to drive sensibly to the Petrol Station and filled up before returning home.
Observations:
Observations:
- The car seems to want to push you on more whilst coasting at lower speeds. I can imagine the box pushing harder against the brakes when not in P with your foot on the brake.
- As a result of the above there's more forward push off the starting line when exiting a roundabout but unless this is more prevalent through time it's not going to result in a performance advantage.
- Gear changes in D seem to take place lower in the rev. range than before and slightly quicker. ("meh" not "wow")
- 120mph in happens in S6. I didn't think it prudent to witness the change to S7 or S8.
- Sport and Manual don't seem to be much changed from stock.
It's got a cord, I thought Dyson were stopping doing those in favour of a good old lithium ion battery or two
They are. Trying to get of their old stock no doubt. Already got one of their cordless ones but you can’t beat a proper hoover.
Wonder if TMC do a tune for it...
Tbh, I'm still waiting and waiting...
... to feel anything different.
I'll re-flash it tomorrow and follow @Evil Derboy's drill.
(S4 Avant)
Wouldn’t bother mate. We’re all buying hoovers now instead.
