starting procedure

[dg-1984]

Would it genuinely have put enough wear on it to be detrimental to the clutch?
If so I would say it was not fit for purpose.
Depressing the clutch before starting is generally a good thing for an engine.

Probably not but for the cost thought it was worth it, just put the car into neutral before starting, so not difficult.
My new 8v needs the clutch and to be fair I always depress the clutch anyway, just something I read about when I fitted the upgraded clutch.

 

[Matt Titanium]

Depressing the clutch before starting is generally a good thing for an engine.

Based on what?

Have you ever tried turning a gearbox input shaft with a gearbox in neutral? It take nack all effort and it's easy to do by gripping a small diameter shaft with one hand. Compared to turning an engine which takes considerable effort to shift it, even with a socket and the mechanical advantage of a reasonably long bar. Add to that turning it fast enough to compress the cylinder contents to fire the engine and it's fair to say that spinning the gearbox as well is totally insignificant.

Depressing the clutch when starting is a definite good thing for safety, but good for the engine (or starter) how?

 

[Invicta]

I’m manual with a key start, the reason I ask is because when I finish my shift I walk passed my car to get changed into clean clothes and change my dirty boots. There’s no way I could sit in it to start it with my dirty gear on. The cars in a secure yard and it would be nice to start it up, and in the few minutes it takes to get changed it would warm up a little. This would be especially helpful in the winter.

Bad practice to leave your car ticking over to warm it up, quite a myth really.

 

[Matt Titanium]

Bad practice to leave your car ticking over to warm it up, quite a myth really.

Another no no is revving the engine immediately before turning it off.

 

[Invicta]

Another no no is revving the engine immediately before turning it off.

Yes of course, you need to give the turbo time to spool up first properly and the oil time to circulate effectively

 

[AlS3BE]

Also creates unburnt fuel in the cylinder creating bore wash. Ring and liners don’t like it when oil is washed away.

 

[Ron240]

Based on what?

Apologies......I don't have the inclination right now to Google it, but I'm sure the method does have positive reinforcement.
Just for the record I ALWAYS leave a manual car parked in gear, but because pressing the clutch while starting is second nature to me it has never been a problem.

 

[Ron240]

Based on what

I found some inclination and this was the first thing I read when googling.....although I'm sure there will be more.
So at the risk of starting a long running debate of disagreement with you I am quoting below.

"Starting the engine in Neutral (manual gearbox) without depressing the clutch means the starter will have to get the engine parts moving, but also the main (input) shaft on the gearbox. Cold temperatures affect not only the oil in the engine, but also the lubricant inside the gear box. Thus the starter motor will have to contend with the slightly thicker oil within the gearbox at lower temperatures.
As you drive, the gearbox oil heats up progressively due to friction between moving parts and also the oil itself getting into motion. As it heats up, it also thins out, giving better lubrication and making it easier for the driver to change gears (the gears enter better). Transmission oil also has the double viscosity grading system, such as "EP 75W/90": 75 when cold, 90 when warmed up.
When both the engine and the gearbox oils are at working temperature, the engine may be started in Neutral without depressing the clutch. However, best practice is still to depress the clutch when starting.

 

[Matt Titanium]

I found some inclination and this was the first thing I read when googling.....although I'm sure there will be more.
So at the risk of starting a long running debate of disagreement with you I am quoting below.

"Starting the engine in Neutral (manual gearbox) without depressing the clutch means the starter will have to get the engine parts moving, but also the main (input) shaft on the gearbox. Cold temperatures affect not only the oil in the engine, but also the lubricant inside the gear box. Thus the starter motor will have to contend with the slightly thicker oil within the gearbox at lower temperatures.
As you drive, the gearbox oil heats up progressively due to friction between moving parts and also the oil itself getting into motion. As it heats up, it also thins out, giving better lubrication and making it easier for the driver to change gears (the gears enter better). Transmission oil also has the double viscosity grading system, such as "EP 75W/90": 75 when cold, 90 when warmed up.
When both the engine and the gearbox oils are at working temperature, the engine may be started in Neutral without depressing the clutch. However, best practice is still to depress the clutch when starting.

That's just someone's opinion from another forum. There's many more that know a bit about the mechanical bits that disagree and will tell you that you'll short life the crank thrust washers and add a few cycles to the clutch release bearing. General good advice is to wear out the cheapest, easiest to replace bit first, so preserve your thrust washer and avoid chewing up the crank if you can.

As I said, it takes nack all effort to turn a gearbox input shaft - but I've only ever turned cold gearboxes by hand so can't state whether they turn far more easily when up to temp, so what do I know.

De-clutching is no more than a safety feature to stop the car lunging or the starter trying to turn a locked up system if the car is in gear. Just as well cars start more reliably these days because you can't move them off a busy junction or railway crossing with the starter motor any more.

As you said earlier, not something anyone on here (who only owns a car for a couple of years from new) need to be concerned about.

 

[Audi Bairn]

My Rs4 was the same. The clutch needs pressing for it to start.

Yeah the last few manual Audi’s me and the wife have owned we’re the same, including A5 and three TT’s.

 

[Sparks43]

They are waiting for idiot lights to go on and then complain to the dealer about???or ever better vent their spleen on a website forum about

I tend to agree with this statement apart from Audi have taken the Temp Gauge out of the S3 and replaced it with a pointless (in my opinion boost gauge) so that we now have to wait for the idiot light to come on to tell us we are overheating unless steam is coming out of the bonnet in which case it's a bit to late.

Mind you these days people seem to drive round with the engine light on as the car is still working so what's the issue !!!

 

[gforrow]

Funnily enough, when I learnt to drive in the late 80’s one of the pre start checks was that the car was in neutral, ie no need to depress the clutch. In fact depressing the clutch was deemed bad, as the gearbox gave more momentum to turning the engine over, hence helped in manual choke days. Guess no one thought of the damage to the starter motor back then, which incidentally, I never wore out.

Was also taught to use engine braking, something my kids were taught is bad, learnt in the last 5 years or so, brakes are cheaper to replace than gearboxes, however I have never knacked a gearbox using engine braking.

Guess it depends on when you learnt to drive. Only seems to be a modern thing, depressing the clutch, perhaps they don’t teach the pre start checks the same anymore either.

 

[Ron240]

Funnily enough, when I learnt to drive in the late 80’s one of the pre start checks was that the car was in neutral, ie no need to depress the clutch. In fact depressing the clutch was deemed bad.
Was also taught to use engine braking
Guess it depends on when you learnt to drive. Only seems to be a modern thing, depressing the clutch, perhaps they don’t teach the pre start checks the same anymore either

I learned to drive in 84 and was also taught to make sure the car was in neutral before starting....in fact this was pretty much essential. Was never told depressing the clutch was bad though.
I was not taught to use engine braking, but rather use the brakes then change down to the appropriate gear, and if this meant going from 4th to 2nd then that's what you done.
It certainly seems like it depends on where you were taught and which methods the examiner expected to see.
Pre start checks must still apply.

 

[Matt Titanium]

Engine braking is a throw back to pre-60s cars when brakes were so bad that you couldn't rely on to actually stop you from any ridiculous excessive speeds above 50 mph.
Mainly used by S3 owners these days to listen to exhuast pops and bangs.