Remap - APR or R-TECH?

[Eren S3]

Greetings all

Question regarding the above. I'm preparing the car for a Stage 2 map in the next month or so.
I've been in touch with Turner Race Developments not far from me who can offer me an APR Stage 1+ remap for £538 (Not sure if inclusive of VAT - I have asked) which would give roughly 320bhp and 300ft lb. They say I can't go Stage 2 as I will need an upgraded clutch.

I'm also looking at R-TECH in Nuneaton who, on their website offer Stage 2 software for £420. Quoting 335-350bhp and 320-340ft lb with no need for an upgraded clutch, I assume torque will be limited to reduce clutch slip?

Hardware wise I have a cold air intake, full turbo back system with race cat downpipe ready for R-TECH stage 2. I've heard great things about both places and I know the APR software is among the best. My question to you guys is; which one? Are there any recommendations or personal experiences with either of these companies or software?

Cheers all.

 

[R222cet]

Most people will say r-tech I personally have APR stage 1 with my revo intake I made 326/320 and I’m very happy with it been running it 6/7 months no issues what so ever

 

[GGG_666]

Is the APR map done on a rolling road? I'm biased towards that over a flash.

 

[Eren S3]

Most people will say r-tech I personally have APR stage 1 with my revo intake I made 326/320 and I’m very happy with it been running it 6/7 months no issues what so ever

Good to hear you're running the stage 1 with no problems. Good numbers as well really. I'd be hoping for something similar with APR.

Is the APR map done on a rolling road? I'm biased towards that over a flash.

Unsure if it's on a rolling road. I have asked, just waiting for a reply. Ideally yeah I'd have it done on a rolling road either way.

 

[mechanic69]

I thought the APR was flashed and the rtech custom on a rolling road, I’m going rtech in the next month or so if I can get booked in, thought it best to map in the cooler weather


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[desertstorm]

If you are close to Turner Race Developments they are in Gloucester so you won't be far from Bill at Badger 5. Have a word with him I am sure you would be happy with what he could do for you.
@badger5
https://www.facebook.com/Badger5Ltd/

 

[*Adam]

I've had a few cars done by R-Tech. Great bunch of lads. Had other maps but none compare to the silky smooth power delivery they give.

MK4 GT TDI from 130 to 180 with supporting mods .

Mk5 GTi from 200 to 280 with supporting mods.

Apart from crushing my foot with the lift (my fault really which led to the barrier in their old place).

 

[nluk100]

It's often wise to go to the place closest (assuming they have a good reputation) as it may be a long trek to R-Tech if the car's not running right.

I'd agree with TRD that you will need a clutch with stage 2 - maybe not on day 1 but it will need doing unless you drive like miss Daisy.

 

[mechanic69]

It's often wise to go to the place closest (assuming they have a good reputation) as it may be a long trek to R-Tech if the car's not running right.

I'd agree with TRD that you will need a clutch with stage 2 - maybe not on day 1 but it will need doing unless you drive like miss Daisy.

The DSG clutch can take it I thought but the manual may need updating depending how high you go


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[Eren S3]

I thought the APR was flashed and the rtech custom on a rolling road, I’m going rtech in the next month or so if I can get booked in, thought it best to map in the cooler weather


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You're right, APR is just a flash, no rolling road. Probably not a bad shout going while it's cooler actually.

If you are close to Turner Race Developments they are in Gloucester so you won't be far from Bill at Badger 5. Have a word with him I am sure you would be happy with what he could do for you.
@badger5
https://www.facebook.com/Badger5Ltd/

Thanks for that, I'll check the link definitely!

I've had a few cars done by R-Tech. Great bunch of lads. Had other maps but none compare to the silky smooth power delivery they give.

MK4 GT TDI from 130 to 180 with supporting mods .

Mk5 GTi from 200 to 280 with supporting mods.

Apart from crushing my foot with the lift (my fault really which led to the barrier in their old place).

Impressive numbers, hearing lots of good things with rtech. Still waiting on a reply from them with some info.

It's often wise to go to the place closest (assuming they have a good reputation) as it may be a long trek to R-Tech if the car's not running right.

I'd agree with TRD that you will need a clutch with stage 2 - maybe not on day 1 but it will need doing unless you drive like miss Daisy.

I understand that rtech don't necessarily require a clutch for stage 2 but I agree it's probably a wise choice to upgrade it. I mean I don't drive it like I stole it every day but at the same time I do enjoy it...I can't seem to find a definitive answer as to if I will need to upgrade the clutch or not. Prevention Esther than cure I guess?

The DSG clutch can take it I thought but the manual may need updating depending how high you go


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This is where my choices between stage 1 and 2 become harder. I'm not DSG so the like line between needing a clutch or not is blurry. For me anyway, only after reading the requirements for such stage 2 like with rtech who don't seem to mention an upgraded clutch.

 

[prt57]

Nikki at RTech can map the car to avoid the clutch slipping. However that may mean the figures are backed off a bit. It depends how the clutch has been treated in the car’s life whether it will slip straight away or not. Also the mileage plays a factor.
My S3 is on APR 2+ and I still have the original clutch but the mileage is very low. However, I don’t lug it in high gears preferring to rev it out. My son had a TTS with RTech stage 2+. Compared to my APR 2+ you seemed to need to rev his car more to get it going but once you got it to 4K revs it was an absolute animal. My APR S3 feels more OEM plus. I talked to Mark Ash of Awesome GTi at the VAG tuner show and he confirmed that this is how APR want their software to be. Possibly less of an animal at the top end but more linear in the power delivery.
Remember 2 different cars though as the TTS is lighter than the S3

 

[paddy]

The truth is every tuner is different even if they are installing a common APR or Revo map , personally i am more than pleased with my APR setup and yes it was run on a rolling road. Absolutely no point in doing this unless you do because the map will probably show up problems and if you don't dyno it you will not know. the APR map is really smooth through the range so you are not looking to keep the thing in a rev range or on cam, i find changing gear at 5k is ideal and more usable than letting it bounce off the rev limiter. also look at the other bits your tuner might insist you have like exhaust. APR make a fantastic cast down pipe and race cat but don't make an exhaust simply because your standard cat back fits their down pipe and flows more than enough for up to stg2+, R-tech i think recommend you need a full free flow exhaust system with their 2+ map. I realise you are going to stg1 but if you do go to Stg2+ later the APR map will upgrade for a nominal price.

 

[downtothebone]

My 2.0 TSI (CCZA engine) Cab is on APR Stage 2.0 - 280BHP with 345 lb ft @ 99 RON. The map was updated last year to give the latest numbers. If you had to go with off the shelf then purely for continued development I’d choose APR. The map for the older EA113 was recently updated this March I think.

 

[Charlie23]

Hi mate, I have had both APR previous S3 and Now I have R-Tech.

Really the choice is yours which do you want, but I would say R-Tech is a lot more in-depth and also check to make sure your car can take the extra power, tailor your car for the extra power and make the MAP safe for your car. More of a personal touch, rather than here you go here is your APR map that the last 10 S3’s have all had. I can not fault APR as my last s3 made 371bhp and 408ft lb torque and i never had a problem at all, but I didn’t know if that engine could take it, where as R-Tech will tell you, and it could save you a few ££££ In the long run. If you are keeping the S3 for a long time I would go R-Tech if it’s just a quick 5minute fun then go APR. One thing I do know, if your worried about the clutch now when your mapped up you will defo need it a lot sooner rather than later and won’t feel the full benefits of any MAP with weak clutch or No clutch.

 

[Charlie23]

Also forgot to add, going Stage 2 with APR is abit of a gamble as with mine stage 2 I had a missfire high up in the revs, took it back and it was the standard fuel pump couldn’t keep up with what the MAP was asking so had to go Stage2+ Straight away. Not saying it will happen and a lot of people I see are running Stage 2 but just an expericene I had which might help you out as you don’t want to waste £500 for a map you can’t have unless you spend another few £££ on a pump.

 

[leshkin]

APR is probably the best off the shelf map available for 8P today, but the experience you get at RTech doesn't compare to 'we just flash them mate' brigade. RTech expanded their workshop this year and offer a wide range of services that can be combined with a remap and the level of pedantry that comes with their pre-map healthcheck is something else

I'm yet to hear any genuine negative feedback about Niki and his team. Level of knowledge and experience is very high, while prices are reasonable. Their maps can be tailored to your needs, so no two RTech mapped cars are the same as Niki works with the available hardware to make the most of it safely.

I'm going there on Friday to get things adjusted after my latest set of hardware changes, so looking forward to that

 

[leshkin]

Also forgot to add, going Stage 2 with APR is abit of a gamble as with mine stage 2 I had a missfire high up in the revs, took it back and it was the standard fuel pump couldn’t keep up with what the MAP was asking so had to go Stage2+ Straight away. Not saying it will happen and a lot of people I see are running Stage 2 but just an expericene I had which might help you out as you don’t want to waste £500 for a map you can’t have unless you spend another few £££ on a pump.

I recon Niki would have spotted that and mapped around it until you decided to get the pump/fuel return valve and would have given you the option to come back and adjust the map for a reduced custom mapping fee.

 

[mechanic69]

Silly question but there are two R-Techs one in Nuneaton and one in hinkley which one is it


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[mechanic69]

Or are they both the same company seeing they are 10 mins apart?


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[downtothebone]

Luckily my APR dealer is also my mechanic and does all the work on my car ... and will be fitting Bilstein B8s, Passat alloy front arms and 034 Motorsport billet dogbone this week.

 

[mechanic69]

I was thinking Niki Gower in Nuneaton


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[samuelh_888]

@mechanic69 - RTech recently moved into bigger premises in Nuneaton, they were originally in Hinkley.

 

[mechanic69]

@mechanic69 - RTech recently moved into bigger premises in Nuneaton, they were originally in Hinkley.

They’ve still got two websites running then, same outfit?


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[samuelh_888]

Good call @mechanic69 - it’s not RTech Power in Hinkley.

It’s this one: http://r-techperformance.co.uk/

 

[paddy]

I can fully understand R-techs caution in mapping peoples cars, many of which will be on 100k+ miles now simply because that's the likely total of 10 year old cars. You are basically turning up the strain on many worn out parts and others nearing the end of their life.
I have to say that this S3 of mine is my first attempt to tune a car since my MGB in 1980 as my attention has always been drawn to bikes and tuning them. Bikes have been tuneable by the guy in his garage for years, many are still carbed and most if not all are turbo free A bog std used ducati 1198s costing £10k will still get to 100mph before a Mclaren F1 LM costing £10m
What i have found in my short time of dealing with car tuners is a total lack of info with sales often based on Forum hear say and shiny boxes. jack of all trade tuning shops, people selling maps without even having a rolling road a hugely over priced tat on offer to the unwary. Its a huge market, mostly internet based selling panel filters with a good name and a less than stock performance right through to exhaust systems pretty well guaranteed to suffer metal fatigue in a couple of years made of heavy stainless steel when stock systems now will often do 15-20 years anyway..
When i bought my IC i tried in vain to get comparative flow figures and HP charts to compare, same with maps, you will be quoted very vague often wildly optimistic figures and in fairness the figures are pretty meaning less when comparing maps to maps on different cars and different dynos.
The only real value of a dyno is in comparative work using the same engine on the same dyno in other words looking for small improvements after repeated adjustments, bear in mind even 2 identical cars with different tire pressures will give different results.....
However.....a few companies like APR and R-tech do put a lot of work into their maps, APR is a generic map which is regularly updated and is excellent if you are running hardware that meets their specific parameters. Its not a stand alone bolt on one size fits all, its part of a package of items that together will give you predictable results. R-tech is also ( i imagine ) a generic map that they can tweek thus removing the requirement to need the APR "package of hardware parts"
As has been mentioned above , if you are running a std pump, then they will map around that and so on. Thats not to say a full spec r-tech map is any better than a APR package but if you are leshkin ( and there is only one) then R-tech can continually tweek the map on the dyno as i said testing the same car on the same dyno looking at individual effects of individual changes.
I chose APR because i was sticking to their menu of Down pipe/cat/pump/IC/CAI and so on If i want to go further i would either stick to APR's next specific menu of Turbo etc or go off piste and go R-tech.
Do your research and save a small fortune is the message, dont buy things you dont need from shops that will sell you anything...Do you really need a DV+ the later std one works well and is half the price, do you need a £1000 exhaust pipe ? i have 380bhp with a stock one. Do you really need a new pcv valve, mine runs fine on the original at 75k miles. A bit of research would have saved me £1000 this month had i bothered to find out that vagbremtechnik is nothing to do with VAG or brembo...
As for R-tech and APR ? different companies selling a different service really.

 

[downtothebone]

Interestingly my APR mechanic always challenges me why I want to add or change ‘that other part someone mentioned’ on a forum. He could easily take my money and this is why I trust his advice ...