APY 9,5:1 comp pistons

[Cocoto4]

Hello guys

So i have an '99 S3 with CP Carillo 82.5mm 9,5:1(SC-7613), cat cams springs, ferrera exh/intake valves and Eagle H-rods. I also have a Standard K04, cheap china 3" DP. Cars got upgraded clutch also. Pretty much everything else is stock. My tuner is having issues with the car starting to knock when adding boost. Its running 0,7 bar that slowly peaks to 0,9 bar...

So its not really fast. Its on 98 octane vpower fuel. Shouldnt this car be able to handle more boost, or is the 9,5:1 CR really bad for the K04 and now im stuck with a really expensive forged engine in a car that goes nearly as bad as it did stock.... Any advice on the matter would be good, is the tuner just bad or is my setup ****?

 

[<tuffty/>]

Nothing wrong with using 9.5:1 pistons... I have the same CP pistons in my engine (82mm) running 2.2bar... granted its not a K04 turbo but its not the pistons or the CR that at fault here

What management? OE? bear in mind that the material used in CP's require the bore to be a little over size for expansion when hot... maybe the pistons are slapping a little too much? CP's tend to run a tighter tolerance than other pistons like JE so aren't as slappy cold but as I said before I am at 2bar at 4.6k rpm and run 16 degrees advance top end...

Couldn't really say exactly whats causing the issues you are seeing but as the long as the engine is sound then your spec shouldn't be an issue...

Might be worth doing a compression test and leak down test... check no oil is present in the charge air system (pull the hose off the throttle body and see if there is any oil wetness)

Beyond that its a tricky one to diagnose as on a std K04 turbo and assuming the timing advance isn't bonkers over std then sounds like something is reducing the octane and subsequently its ability to suppress knock

<tuffty/>

 

[Cocoto4]

Its an professional engine builder that picked cp carillo himself, so i think the bore should be correct. Its now running an standalone ecu from fartsrup http://www.fartstrup.dk/


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[Cocoto4]

Also can ****** oil do this? I am running 5w30 Castrom edge... But after hearing about oil from the internet might be fake im not so sure how good it is anymore...

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[Cocoto4]

Also the car is still running a narrowband o2 sensor, if this might cause any issues tuning?

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[Stuart B]

I am just a beginner... but I would love to see the logs created during a dyno run - where intervention is happening...

RPM,
MAF g/s,
IAT,
AFR / LAMFA,
EGT (probably not applicable - as narrowband),
LOAD (desired and actual),
BOOST (desired and actual),
TIMING cyl1-4,
TIMING overall,
knock voltage cyl 1-4,
****** cyl1-4,

 

[badger5]

Also the car is still running a narrowband o2 sensor, if this might cause any issues tuning?

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is the model you are using the FFJ1106-1 ecu?
its pin out suggests it can take an lsu 4.2 lambda as well as narrowband, but I did'nt see knock sensors listed in pin outs.

 

[Cocoto4]

As far as i understood the owner does some soldering to the ecu's before he ships them, depending on what car you specify its for, this to make them plug and play for the customer.

 

[<tuffty/>]

Seems a little excessive to use a fairly basic standalone for the spec of turbo (std) when the OE ecu will do all you need including knock control....

You could easily wideband convert and go ME7.5 too and have the benefits of decent fuel control/protection and potentially VVT and EGT

<tuffty/>

 

[Cocoto4]

The thought is to use less time tuning as the tuner is very familiar to this ecu, but he dosent really do alot of custom mapping with the standard ecu. But i thought my '99 APY didnt come with ME7.5?

 

[<tuffty/>]

The thought is to use less time tuning as the tuner is very familiar to this ecu, but he dosent really do alot of custom mapping with the standard ecu. But i thought my '99 APY didnt come with ME7.5?

no its ME7 on the APY but the conversion is fairly simple requiring a bit of wiring for the wideband sensor and possibly VVT/EGT if yo want to use them... they can be coded out if not but I guess if you haven't got someone who can tune ME7.5 then standalone is an option...

What is he using for detecting knock? have you tried running the engine on the standard ECU? see if it pulls timing?

<tuffty/>

 

[Cocoto4]

It pulls timing cause it detects knocking on both the standalone and the standard ECU.

Had several issues with the tune that was on it after the engine rebuild so figured it was good to start from blank anyways.

 

[<tuffty/>]

interesting... and a little disappointing...

As I said before... its not the spec of your build... the 9.5:1 pistons won't be inducing detonation at only 9.5:1... what timing advance is in the map at that stage?

Have you checked if there is oil present in the throttle body at all?... only thing I can think of is oil is getting in and diluting the octane of the fuel... could be from the stem seals (as have seen brand new built heads pop seals before) or potentially the turbo itself...

<tuffty/>

 

[Cocoto4]

interesting... and a little disappointing...

As I said before... its not the spec of your build... the 9.5:1 pistons won't be inducing detonation at only 9.5:1... what timing advance is in the map at that stage?

Have you checked if there is oil present in the throttle body at all?... only thing I can think of is oil is getting in and diluting the octane of the fuel... could be from the stem seals (as have seen brand new built heads pop seals before) or potentially the turbo itself...

<tuffty/>

I will get back to you on the timing advance. Will also check the oil in the tb. Do the stem seals pop because of sloppy job, or something else? The engine was fully rebuilt by a professional engine builder.

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[<tuffty/>]

Have seen stem seals lift on a brand new genuine head supplied fully assembled from VAG... have also seen it a few times on head builds too... easy enough to do tbh... inlets are fiddly being a smallish hole to work in...

Should be accompanied by a bit of smoke potentially...

Is the engine run in?...

<tuffty/>

 

[Cocoto4]

Have seen stem seals lift on a brand new genuine head supplied fully assembled from VAG... have also seen it a few times on head builds too... easy enough to do tbh... inlets are fiddly being a smallish hole to work in...

Should be accompanied by a bit of smoke potentially...

Is the engine run in?...

<tuffty/>

Yes. The engine has covered around 2500km.

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[Cocoto4]

I am just a beginner... but I would love to see the logs created during a dyno run - where intervention is happening...

RPM,
MAF g/s,
IAT,
AFR / LAMFA,
EGT (probably not applicable - as narrowband),
LOAD (desired and actual),
BOOST (desired and actual),
TIMING cyl1-4,
TIMING overall,
knock voltage cyl 1-4,
****** cyl1-4,

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i2ggs7y7li2km5p/FlashLog.dat?dl=0

Here is a logfile. You need the software here: http://www.fartstrup.dk/index.asp to read it(or maybe there is a better way(i dont really know, but this one works.) Go into the app and press 7 and then f7 and select the flashlog.dat file. This is NOT from dyno runs, this is from normal driving around, but is the only logs i have currently.

 

[Cocoto4]

Also is this normal for the charge pipe and the exhaust? Or might this cause a problem?

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[S3 Hilife]

Also is this normal for the charge pipe and the exhaust? Or might this cause a problem?View attachment 166280View attachment 166281

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Both are standard OE design

 

[Darrell]

Has the compression been checked to make sure it is actually 9.5:1? if the block or head has been skimmed it may have raised the compression ....