Dead P-Zero’s

[AudiNutta]

Hi Guys,

I had a bit of a shock when Audi serviced the car today.

“No need to worry about your tread, 3.5-4.5mm but there are cords showing”.

I had my wheel alignment done at 5000 miles (10k miles now), obviously the camber was set up wrong because they tyres have eaten themselves.

I’m so glad it went into Audi, I’d have never looked for this until it was likely too late! I popped into my ‘specialist’ who did the alignment and they said it is more likely Toe and just to “book it back in when I have tyres for alignment again”. Unclear whether that is FOC or not, I’m going to pop back in tomorrow and push a bit more I think. Do you think it is worthwhile me pursuing it? Yes the car has done 5000 miles since but both front tyres are exactly the same so obviously a set up issue. It would be something if the alignment cost was covered at least.

I’m worried if I put it back into them they will balls it up again, so am swinging more towards an Audi alignment.

Audi told me my spacers were likely to blame?? What?? They won’t align my car unless the spacers come off. Spacers shouldn’t have any affect as it only widens stance doesn’t change any geometry?

Anyway 2x new Pirelli’s have cost me £345 posted, day £30 fitting somewhere decent and then £120 alignment... expensive day :-(

Has anybody else had the Pirelli’s shred like this? I was doing so well at 10k with an average of 4mm tread too.

Thanks in advance,

Matt.

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[Jonny B]

Can’t comment on that rate of wear but one thing to be aware of . Got a puncture on one of my rears two days ago , long story but non repairable , down to 4 mm even wear , so just replaced the pair . The ones I got were different from the p zeros that were supplied from new . The ones I’ve got now have got a different sidewall the bit that protects the rim has changed shape . The tyre and tread pattern is identical but the look of the sidewall has changed . Not doing my OCD any good the fronts have bigger rim protection than the rears . Sorry Matt bit of topic interesting if yours are different ?


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[D0C]

That's not right. I've done nearly 9000 miles and mine are like new!

 

[Dan_DJT]

That looks bad Matt, glad that Audi discovered it before anything bad happend.

I am no tyre expert but it looks to me that something has been rubbing, the surrounding tread doesnt look to have worn enough for it to be purely alignment.

 

[AudiNutta]

Can’t comment on that rate of wear but one thing to be aware of . Got a puncture on one of my rears two days ago , long story but non repairable , down to 4 mm even wear , so just replaced the pair . The ones I got were different from the p zeros that were supplied from new . The ones I’ve got now have got a different sidewall the bit that protects the rim has changed shape . The tyre and tread pattern is identical but the look of the sidewall has changed . Not doing my OCD any good the fronts have bigger rim protection than the rears . Sorry Matt bit of topic interesting if yours are different ?


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There are so many different kinds of P-Zero, the kind we need are RO2, the AO P Zero is the one on the S3 and the side wall isn’t as steep.

I’ve ordered the RO2 PCNS (noise cancelling) tyres, if they turn up and are wrong they aren’t going on as one of the reasons I’m sticking to Pirelli is the side wall.

 

[AudiNutta]

That's not right. I've done nearly 9000 miles and mine are like new!

Yep didn’t think it was, I know people are getting through these tyres in 7-8000 miles though? So wasn’t sure if I was going to get told to get a grip and just change them as 10k isn’t bad going. I had another 5k in that tread.....

 

[AudiNutta]

That looks bad Matt, glad that Audi discovered it before anything bad happend.

I am no tyre expert but it looks to me that something has been rubbing, the surrounding tread doesnt look to have worn enough for it to be purely alignment.

Me too, so grateful they spotted it.. as Audi told me, I have no need to look. I visually check the tread from the outside and there was loads, no need to be concerned and having had the alignment done I didn’t even consider that.

I don’t think it’s been rubbing anywhere, haven’t heard anything and both are the same.. both wouldn’t rub if there was a ‘problem’.

The alignment must have just been extremely poor, does anybody think I have good reason to try and claim something back? If the tyres had 2mm on it wouldn’t be as bad, but they are only just about half worn being between 7 and 8mm new.

The thing that’s bothered me most is what could have happened, it’s genuinely scary.. I’d been booting it around roundabouts this morning, not good at all. I don’t think I will even drive it to have them changed, as far as I’m aware it’s 3 points a tyre and it’s not worth the risk... off they come.

Audi wanted £295 a tyre

 

[Jonny B]

There are so many different kinds of P-Zero, the kind we need are RO2, the AO P Zero is the one on the S3 and the side wall isn’t as steep.

I’ve ordered the RO2 PCNS (noise cancelling) tyres, if they turn up and are wrong they aren’t going on as one of the reasons I’m sticking to Pirelli is the side wall.

Yup the ones I have now are RO 1 , I had no idea they came in different versions. I assume it’s just the sidewall?
Jeez , now I want the 02 ‘s back....

 

[Jonny B]

Me too, so grateful they spotted it.. as Audi told me, I have no need to look. I visually check the tread from the outside and there was loads, no need to be concerned and having had the alignment done I didn’t even consider that.

I don’t think it’s been rubbing anywhere, haven’t heard anything and both are the same.. both wouldn’t rub if there was a ‘problem’.

The alignment must have just been extremely poor, does anybody think I have good reason to try and claim something back? If the tyres had 2mm on it wouldn’t be as bad, but they are only just about half worn being between 7 and 8mm new.

The thing that’s bothered me most is what could have happened, it’s genuinely scary.. I’d been booting it around roundabouts this morning, not good at all. I don’t think I will even drive it to have them changed, as far as I’m aware it’s 3 points a tyre and it’s not worth the risk... off they come.

Audi wanted £295 a tyre

Yes looking at your pics I think you have every reason to kick up a stink.

 

[Hal Adams]

I hate to defend Audi, but they are, albeit anally, correct about the spacers.

There is a formula - I do not know it without checking some notes from way back, but if your toe-in is x mm, then with each mm of spacing away from manufacturers spec, the toe-in should be altered accordingly [to the formula]. Audi will argue that as your track has widened, the alignment compensation is more pronounced, causing issues.

By fitting spacers, or wheels with ET out of normal, one is moving the centre line of the wheel further away from the king pin incination thus increasing the scrub circle radius. OK, the scrub circle has to be increased an awful lot - more than the change of radius produced by a 12mm spacer - but the fact is there and Audi will only be allowed to work to design specifications.

I only mention this so that you do not get into a no-win argument with them on spacers.

As for the tyres, the people who incorrectly set the toe-in should answer to the early degradation by a hefty discount on replacements. imo anyway...

 

[chungster]

I’d say that’s catching on something and cutting the tyre but could be screwed up geo settings as well.

Still got the original PZ’s on the rear after 22k miles with 3mm left - fronts on 2nd set with 4mm after trashing the original PZ’s on track.

Had alignment check done at the TT Shop after replacing the fronts - no changes done as they were spot on from the factory.

No spacers though.




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[Terminator x]

My OE Pirellis lasted just 9k miles. Binned em for MPSS which were still going 32k miles later.

TX.

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[NevMan]

There are so many different kinds of P-Zero, the kind we need are RO2, the AO P Zero is the one on the S3 and the side wall isn’t as steep.

I’ve ordered the RO2 PCNS (noise cancelling) tyres, if they turn up and are wrong they aren’t going on as one of the reasons I’m sticking to Pirelli is the side wall.

Surprised you are sticking with P Zero’s. Most/a lot on here with S3/RS3’s seem to really rare the MP4’s.

Nightmare on the inner wear ‍

 

[SPIKE_]

Surprised you are sticking with P Zero’s. Most/a lot on here with S3/RS3’s seem to really rare the MP4’s.

Nightmare on the inner wear ‍

There is an old thread in this section noting issues with Michelin and setting off the traction control all the time. Agree though that I have only good experience with performance Michelin tyres.

 

[Slowracer]

I have heard of similar issues from guys in Australia.
That looks like an alignment setting problem. Unless you have a fault.

the only setting you can adjust is TOE. A lot of toe combined with neg camber will shread tyres.

Go to a reputable alignment shop and have it checked with the new tyres. That will tell you if the alignment job was bad and then you will have an independent opinion. If it was bad you could try going back to the original aligner but he will probably say you’ve hit a gutter and knocked it out.
Don’t like your chances with Audi, they’ll probably give you a similar story even if alignment is bad without spacers.

 

[Beebee-one]

Hi Guys,

I had a bit of a shock when Audi serviced the car today.

“No need to worry about your tread, 3.5-4.5mm but there are cords showing”.

I had my wheel alignment done at 5000 miles (10k miles now), obviously the camber was set up wrong because they tyres have eaten themselves.

I’m so glad it went into Audi, I’d have never looked for this until it was likely too late! I popped into my ‘specialist’ who did the alignment and they said it is more likely Toe and just to “book it back in when I have tyres for alignment again”. Unclear whether that is FOC or not, I’m going to pop back in tomorrow and push a bit more I think. Do you think it is worthwhile me pursuing it? Yes the car has done 5000 miles since but both front tyres are exactly the same so obviously a set up issue. It would be something if the alignment cost was covered at least.

I’m worried if I put it back into them they will balls it up again, so am swinging more towards an Audi alignment.

Audi told me my spacers were likely to blame?? What?? They won’t align my car unless the spacers come off. Spacers shouldn’t have any affect as it only widens stance doesn’t change any geometry?

Anyway 2x new Pirelli’s have cost me £345 posted, day £30 fitting somewhere decent and then £120 alignment... expensive day :-(

Has anybody else had the Pirelli’s shred like this? I was doing so well at 10k with an average of 4mm tread too.

Thanks in advance,

Matt.

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Looks like something has been catching the side of the tyre. Not rubbing on your fancy carbon fibre stone chip protectors you fitted by chance? Maybe worth checking clearance when using the full steering lock angles and with the suspension under load.

 

[T-800]

 

[T-800]

More reading here @AudiNutta

http://suspensionsecrets.co.uk/

 

[AudiNutta]

Yup the ones I have now are RO 1 , I had no idea they came in different versions. I assume it’s just the sidewall?
Jeez , now I want the 02 ‘s back....

The RO1 was the tyre on the PFL, as far as I was concerned they still had the steep sidewall and it was the AO and other non-Audi variants that had a straight wall?

 

[AudiNutta]

I hate to defend Audi, but they are, albeit anally, correct about the spacers.

There is a formula - I do not know it without checking some notes from way back, but if your toe-in is x mm, then with each mm of spacing away from manufacturers spec, the toe-in should be altered accordingly [to the formula]. Audi will argue that as your track has widened, the alignment compensation is more pronounced, causing issues.

By fitting spacers, or wheels with ET out of normal, one is moving the centre line of the wheel further away from the king pin incination thus increasing the scrub circle radius. OK, the scrub circle has to be increased an awful lot - more than the change of radius produced by a 12mm spacer - but the fact is there and Audi will only be allowed to work to design specifications.

I only mention this so that you do not get into a no-win argument with them on spacers.

As for the tyres, the people who incorrectly set the toe-in should answer to the early degradation by a hefty discount on replacements. imo anyway...

That's brilliant thanks very might for the insight.

I only have an 8mm spacer on the front, so slight.

I checked with the company that did the alignment, they ummed and ared.. he said realistically in real world conditions, my 8mm spacer wouldn't have made a difference that was noticeable if it made a difference at all. Will post the overall update on this reply as I've gone into it now.

UPDATE:

I popped down and spoke to one of the bosses yesterday, he said yes the message was passed on from their Workshop Manager and they were quite concerned, so much so to have already booked their Hunter system in for a re-calibration in the upcoming week. He said it is done yearly and was last done in November, but they would have it checked ASAP and didn't want to align any cars until it was done (great response).
As I've told them though it is unlikely to be an issue with the equipment calibration, they would have realised by now, my alignment was carried out at the end of March! I asked if there was a possibility the specifications pulled up were wrong, he said no that should never happen as the data they use is manufacturer specs and they use the same equipment as Audi themselves.

I've booked for it to go back in on Friday at 9am to have the alignment done. I asked if they could do anything on price, he said it would be free of charge. He said only if the kit has been calibrated by then, but I have a few hundred mile trip over next weekend that I was hoping to take the RS3 on not the diesel Corsa. If it hasn't been calibrated I will get them to do the alignment and then when it is calibrated, if it is miles out they can do it again. He said when the machine is calibrated the difference is next to nothing, so it would be odd if it was this far out.

Regardless of what happens, when the car goes on I want the settings to be quite different to what it is set at now, can't just keep throwing tyres at it. If they can't change it, I will have to get the spacers off and a tracking check done at Audi.

 

[AudiNutta]

I’d say that’s catching on something and cutting the tyre but could be screwed up geo settings as well.

Still got the original PZ’s on the rear after 22k miles with 3mm left - fronts on 2nd set with 4mm after trashing the original PZ’s on track.

Had alignment check done at the TT Shop after replacing the fronts - no changes done as they were spot on from the factory.

No spacers though.

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There isn't anything catching, this is on both sides of the car so it would be very unusual if there was.

When they originally checked mine, he said it was quite considerably out.

Looks like something has been catching the side of the tyre. Not rubbing on your fancy carbon fibre stone chip protectors you fitted by chance? Maybe worth checking clearance when using the full steering lock angles and with the suspension under load.

As above, nothing has been catching the tyre I don't think but it is both front tyres not just the one side. Drivers side has more cords showing through than the other. The car is parked up now until I can get tyres and I'm not driving it to have them changed, just not worth it.. wheels will be off.

The carbon guards are literally a few mm thick and glued / riveted to where the fixings are in the arch for the side skirt... never ever going to catch. As it is parked up now I won't get it back out to check, but when the alignment is done Friday I will get them to give it all a good looking over which I'm sure they will to get to the bottom of it anyway. Good response from the independent, seems like they want to get to the bottom of the problem.

 

[AudiNutta]

Surprised you are sticking with P Zero’s. Most/a lot on here with S3/RS3’s seem to really rare the MP4’s.

Nightmare on the inner wear ‍

Mainly down to the design of the P Zero's, they look great and the kerb protection has saved me once big time!
I never thought the kerb protection was worth anything, it's rubber.. it gives!
In a tight old multistorey I caught a kerb on the rear offside, the whole car jolted, it moved the car over.. I was expecting total horror when going to inspect but there wasn't a blemish on the alloy.. big dirty mark on the tyre. That's me on stuck P-Zero's!!

 

[AudiNutta]

I have heard of similar issues from guys in Australia.
That looks like an alignment setting problem. Unless you have a fault.

the only setting you can adjust is TOE. A lot of toe combined with neg camber will shread tyres.

Go to a reputable alignment shop and have it checked with the new tyres. That will tell you if the alignment job was bad and then you will have an independent opinion. If it was bad you could try going back to the original aligner but he will probably say you’ve hit a gutter and knocked it out.
Don’t like your chances with Audi, they’ll probably give you a similar story even if alignment is bad without spacers.

The independent that did it are very reputable and use the same Hunter equipment as Audi, they set up loads of track spec cars as well as regular alignments after coilover changes etc. There is an update a little further up, they have responded quite concerned by what has happened and seem to want to find out what has gone wrong, which is a good response. Hopefully there is something obvious when it goes back on Friday whether it be a fault or the alignment clearly out.

 

[AudiNutta]

More reading here @AudiNutta

http://suspensionsecrets.co.uk/

Thank you very much as always, I shall be having a nosey

I've just reviewed all of my pictures of the car, hoping that I would find the spacers were added after the alignment but no they were fitted a month before There goes my hope of the spacers having thrown the alignment out, back to not knowing.

All of those negative factors on the video slightly concern me, I have 8mm and 12mm which hopefully won't have a big effect. I know somebody that has 25mm spacers on his RS3.

 

[NevMan]

Mainly down to the design of the P Zero's, they look great and the kerb protection has saved me once big time!
I never thought the kerb protection was worth anything, it's rubber.. it gives!
In a tight old multistorey I caught a kerb on the rear offside, the whole car jolted, it moved the car over.. I was expecting total horror when going to inspect but there wasn't a blemish on the alloy.. big dirty mark on the tyre. That's me on stuck P-Zero's!!

Fair enough, can’t argue

 

[Jonny B]

The RO1 was the tyre on the PFL, as far as I was concerned they still had the steep sidewall and it was the AO and other non-Audi variants that had a straight wall?

The RO 1 ,s which I now have on the rear do have a “rim protection “ strip on the side wall , it just doesn’t look as prounounced as on the ro2 that the car came with. Theirs not much in it in size , I think it’s been made more a design feature on the ro2 . In other respects it’s the same. When I ordered it it was just listed as Audi approved Pirelli sport didn’t see an option of different types, but now I know. Like you that extended sidewall has saved me on a couple of occasions I did think it was somewhat of a gimmick but in the real world it seems to work so I’m sticking with them .
Thanks for the info hope you get suitable resolution for the uneven wear situation.

 

[Dan_DJT]

Are the R02 that come on the FL still available ? On Pirelli website they seem to be listed as Pirelli P Zero SC R02 without the significant rim protector bar.

 

[nervus]

To be fair, one significant pot hole can effect your geometry settings, then it needs re-setting. I dont know what your roads are like but in Newcastle/ Northumberland, they are impossible to avoid as they're everywhere. Had my car re-aligned at least 10 times in 2.5years.

 

[teslaboy]

Thank you very much as always, I shall be having a nosey

I've just reviewed all of my pictures of the car, hoping that I would find the spacers were added after the alignment but no they were fitted a month before There goes my hope of the spacers having thrown the alignment out, back to not knowing.

All of those negative factors on the video slightly concern me, I have 8mm and 12mm which hopefully won't have a big effect. I know somebody that has 25mm spacers on his RS3.

Ive got 8mm spacers all round.

Checked my tyres at the weekend and i do not have that cut line in the tyres.

 

[Tristan2]

Ive got 8mm spacers all round.

Checked my tyres at the weekend and i do not have that cut line in the tyres.

I’ve got 12mm on the front and 15mm on the back and my tyres are fine

 

[JamesBaby]

This will IMO is a alignment issue, pure and simple. I have spacers, and different offsets resulting in a total widening of the track of around 13mm all round. Zero issues and well over 23k on my front RO2 P-Zero's. Wear was very even across the tread. Recently replaced the fronts and also had alignment re-done as the roads are so bad here.

Many so called 4 wheel alignment centers are not skilled enough to unbolt the subframe and equalise the camber, and balance the castor. Atec Align in Huddersfield is a legend and all the local dealerships use him including the VAG groups. Awesome Gti also have a new Hunter system, and did an excellent job last time I had suspension work done.

The RO2 spec tyres have the big rim protectors. They superseded the RO1. The AO is also an Audi spec but not for the RS3, and may not have the big rim protectors.

 

[Jonny B]

Be careful as I posted earlier , the Ro2 May be the newer version but inputting my reg into kwik fit 17 plate saloon , I got Pirelli 235/35 19 p zero come up as expected, showed the staggered set up , assumed up to date and I’d get the latest p zero ,ordered . got delivered the RO1 . Not sure if the other major suppliers distinguish on their sites but check if u need 02’s ..

 

[sve170]

To be fair, one significant pot hole can effect your geometry settings, then it needs re-setting. I dont know what your roads are like but in Newcastle/ Northumberland, they are impossible to avoid as they're everywhere. Had my car re-aligned at least 10 times in 2.5years.

Are you getting your re-alignment at Audi dealer or an independent?
Also what are you being charged, my local Audi dealer wants £200 for re-alignment


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[teslaboy]

Are you getting your re-alignment at Audi dealer or an independent?
Also what are you being charged, my local Audi dealer wants £200 for re-alignment


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£200 !!!

I'll say no more on Audi dealers.

 

[nervus]

Are you getting your re-alignment at Audi dealer or an independent?
Also what are you being charged, my local Audi dealer wants £200 for re-alignment


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I used to use Audi - They do it once for free if <2000 mile then it was £160, they since refused to do it as its lowered (even though it was the first two times too)!

I use a local Independents now, anyone who has a Hunter system and can fit me in when I want it and typically charge between £50 - £80. The best i've used is Revolution Motorsport in Gateshead. They really know their stuff, are enthusiasts themselves.

 

[nervus]

This will IMO is a alignment issue, pure and simple. I have spacers, and different offsets resulting in a total widening of the track of around 13mm all round. Zero issues and well over 23k on my front RO2 P-Zero's. Wear was very even across the tread. Recently replaced the fronts and also had alignment re-done as the roads are so bad here.

Many so called 4 wheel alignment centers are not skilled enough to unbolt the subframe and equalise the camber, and balance the castor. Atec Align in Huddersfield is a legend and all the local dealerships use him including the VAG groups. Awesome Gti also have a new Hunter system, and did an excellent job last time I had suspension work done.

The RO2 spec tyres have the big rim protectors. They superseded the RO1. The AO is also an Audi spec but not for the RS3, and may not have the big rim protectors.

This is good to know! I always just accepted the Camber and Castor couldn't be adjusted! Only toe on the RS3

 

[Snake Pliskin]

I replaced my original Pirelli fronts last year after just 7,000 miles - they had really bad outer edge wear.

The garage who I use checked the alignment and guess what - it was out - so had that corrected at the same time.

I replaced with Pirelli again and a year on they are wearing evenly with no outer edge wear

 

[sve170]

I used to use Audi - They do it once for free if <2000 mile then it was £160, they since refused to do it as its lowered (even though it was the first two times too)!

I use a local Independents now, anyone who has a Hunter system and can fit me in when I want it and typically charge between £50 - £80. The best i've used is Revolution Motorsport in Gateshead. They really know their stuff, are enthusiasts themselves.

Free if <2000 mile.
Well I burst the front left tyre (pothole) on my brand new FL RS3 on the day of collection. Car got recovered back to local Audi dealer where I ordered and purchased the car, they immediately ordered a new tyre.
I asked about an alignment check and inspection of front suspension but got told it will cost £200.

I could not believe they had the front to try and charge me for an inspection & alignment considering I had just handed over >£50,000 for the new RS3.
They carried out a basic visual check but would NOT do alignment without full payment, needless I told them to poke it and walked out.

Audi dealers don’t you just HATE them


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[andyt99]

I’m so glad it went into Audi, I’d have never looked for this until it was likely too late! I popped into my ‘specialist’ who did the alignment and they said it is more likely Toe and just to “book it back in when I have tyres for alignment again”. Unclear whether that is FOC or not, I’m going to pop back in tomorrow and push a bit more I think.

An amusing choice of words

 

[Matthew154]

I am facing the exact same situation !!! My pirellis look the exact same with 9000 miles on ... i am tempted to try some nexen n fera su1 to finish the summer season ...