For S4 owners who plan to tune or not extend warranty...

[Dippy]

I saw this thread on Audizine.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/822310-B9-S4-blown-motor!

 

[Daggerit]

Interesting... Although it's definitely the first catastrophic failures I've hear of to be honest and sounds from the latter posts that it's potentially a bearing or something that would point to build issues. Hopefully it's only a minority of cars affected. I know people with 15k miles and more on the S4/S5 with no issues, and I have 12.8k myself and it's had some rough launches and spirited driving with no issues so far. Touch wood.

Edit: And just to put it in perspective, I think that they've heard of a couple cars having this issue but how many is that as a percentage of the numbers actually sold? Probably very small I'd imagine?

 

[Terminator x]

Internet scaremongering imho only hear about failures not 10's of thousands running fine.

TX.

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[cuke2u]

Much the first here with this engine and in audiworld as well. Doesn't suggest an epidemic yet and the other thing is that this was in the usa, aren't the engines there assembled in mexico or somewhere across there?
I seem to recall that there has been issues with their engine builds before...

 

[Dippy]

Internet scaremongering imho only hear about failures not 10's of thousands running fine.

I do hope that's not an accusation aimed at me. I am simply providing information which may be of interest to fellow Audi owners. Indeed there can be no conclusion to draw from one incident, however for any owner deciding whether or not to invest in an extended warranty policy, all failure reports can be relevant, particularly when considering the cost impact.

 

[Daggerit]

I do hope that's not an accusation aimed at me. I am simply providing information which may be of interest to fellow Audi owners. Indeed there can be no conclusion to draw from one incident, however for any owner deciding whether or not to invest in an extended warranty policy, all failure reports can be relevant, particularly when considering the cost impact.

I'd imagine that he was just meaning in general over the whole incident rather than you... It's the usual thing of only hearing about the handful that have serious issues versus the tens of thousands that are totally fine, but that's the way it always works in internet land.

 

[Terminator x]

I do hope that's not an accusation aimed at me. I am simply providing information which may be of interest to fellow Audi owners. Indeed there can be no conclusion to draw from one incident, however for any owner deciding whether or not to invest in an extended warranty policy, all failure reports can be relevant, particularly when considering the cost impact.

Not aimed at you. One engine failure or even two doesn't make an epidemic is all I'm saying.

TX.

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[cuke2u]

I have posted this up in audiworld, which is based in the USA, to see what comes back...

 

[A12RNX]

Mine has just over 11k had it from 6.5k it has been abused for 80 percent of those miles. I also let it warm up and cool down before hammering it. A couple of things I find that could cause some turbo damage is the start/stop feature if you have been driving like a loon you stop at a set of lights and it turns off. Poor turbo so I make sure I always turn start/stop off.

 

[cuke2u]

No the turbo is protected against such driving, besides this isn't what caused the failure...

 

[A12RNX]

No the turbo is protected against such driving, besides this isn't what caused the failure...

I know that wasn’t what caused this failure but a potential problem if done so many times. But how is the turbo protected against such driving? Is it not like turning your engine straight off after driving fast?

 

[cuke2u]

No the turbo will have coolant and oil still running through it despite the engine not being on, even if you turn it off. There are electric pumps fitted with servos that redirect the fluids to the bearings. You may well hear them running after turning off the car yourself.
The manufacturers are on this one...

 

[sunshinewelly]

15000 on mine and no problems

 

[Boosted_Six]

As already stated I believe all the saloons and SUVs for north America are assembled in Mexico since 2017

 

[A12RNX]

No the turbo will have coolant and oil still running through it despite the engine not being on, even if you turn it off. There are electric pumps fitted with servos that redirect the fluids to the bearings. You may well hear them running after turning off the car yourself.
The manufacturers are on this one...

Thanks for that information I don’t have to sit like an idiot with my engine running when I get home for 5 mins haha. Technology fingers crossed it is a reliable thing.

 

[cuke2u]

Thanks for that information I don’t have to sit like an idiot with my engine running when I get home for 5 mins haha. Technology fingers crossed it is a reliable thing.

Of course it will aways be good to let things cool down after a long hard and fast trip. You shouldn't really just hop out of the car with steaming hot brakes for instance as that can lead to warped discs...

 

[Dippy]

Well as a prior B5 S4 owner I fully appreciate the sentiment about turbo thermal management. After a few cases of failure (most in the US - surprise?) it became clear that coking of the oil line for the oil bearing was a risk. Audi put in an "after-run" pump which would circulate coolant after switch-off, but it was always too soon. I put in a turbo timer to hold it on for longer, and then others noted that it was controlled by a thermal sensor which could be swapped out for one with a lower setting.

Anyway although I don't know what type of bearing the B9 S4 turbo has, there is no doubt that Audi would have designed it not to cook, especially with start/stop being a feature. The diagram below clearly shows coolant running through the turbo. Presumably it continues with an electric pump both during the stop of stop/start and also after switch off. I could hear my B5 pump running after switch off. Can you B9 owners hear yours?

I do agree with @cuke2u about letting the car cool after spirited driving. Although I loved my B5 S4, I am glad that allowing time to warm-up and then cool down is not necessary with my supercharger.

 

[Dippy]

I just read the latest posts in that Audizine thread and that there was a UOA showing 0W20 oil. That surprises me. What are UK dealers filling a B9 S4 engine with?

 

[cuke2u]

There has been much discussion about the effect of start stop technology on engines and more specifically the turbos. Some of the fears about heat damage can be attributed to be based upon knowledge of older turbo engines and not the progress manufacturers have made to incorporate co2 reducing systems and to protect other components from heat damage. One method is to fit electric pumps to keep coolant and oil pumping to the bearings, however modem smaller turbos also don't have the inertia to keep them spinning after an engine is shut down as well. There is aslo the bearing material which is designed to have greater self lubricating properties. Then there is the oil which is also designed as low friction and an ability to preserve durability of the oil film itself.

 

[Daggerit]

I just read the latest posts in that Audizine thread and that there was a UOA showing 0W20 oil. That surprises me. What are UK dealers filling a B9 S4 engine with?

I don't actually know because I've not had my first change! I seem to recall 0W35 though? That said, the internal training pack for the engine says 0W20 but I'm not sure which market it's related to specifically.

 

[Boosted_Six]

For a tuned car that gets driven properly I would be more comfortable with the 30 weight oil rather than 20!

I bet Audi changed to a thinner oil this year for short term fuel economy figure boosts...

 

[Terminator x]

Of course it will aways be good to let things cool down after a long hard and fast trip. You shouldn't really just hop out of the car with steaming hot brakes for instance as that can lead to warped discs...

Gentle 5 mins as you get close to home.

TX.

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[Dippy]

For a tuned car that gets driven properly I would be more comfortable with the 30 weight oil rather than 20!

I bet Audi changed to a thinner oil this year for short term fuel economy figure boosts...

Possibly, but maybe there are close tolerances that need it. We had the cam wear issue on the 2.7 biturbo and many owners including me switched from 30 to 40 weight. I would hate to think of something similar happening with this engine by using an even thinner oil.

 

[cuke2u]

But then by using a unrecomended oil would you not fall foul of the warranty being invalidated as the oil would be the first thing tested if engine issues developed within that period?

 

[Dippy]

Indeed, the warranty trap. I guess since the V6 in the B9 S4 is a brand new design, anyone who wants to keep the car more than 3 years would be very sensible to extend it.