TTE 440 or EFR 6758 on s3

Lulinfornoah

Lulinfornoah

Audi s3 8l apy '99
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Hi fellas! After two years working and studying i have had my s3 stored in my warehouse for a wile, still stock but with koni shocks. So at the moment i want to get big power, around the 450bhp mark. I have a friend with a TTE420 in a Cupra R and i want more power. At the moment my toughts are The “plug&play” turbos, like the TTE440 (TTE480 1.8t fitment)or the EFR6758. But i haven’t found any info about the TTE440 (my first option because it’s 500€ cheapper)
Cheers for any advice or info
 
What part of those turbos are plug and play? You still need all the other changes rods, valves, fuelling and fabricated exhaust and intake.
 
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064 based turbo aren't the easiest turbo in the world to fit on a quattro...

Plug and play they aren't

<tuffty/>
 
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Hybrid compromise or a proper big turbo.

There is no comparison to be made there.

Efr all the way of those options.
 
Stuart B said:
What part of those turbos are plug and play? You still need all the other changes rods, valves, fuelling and fabricated exhaust and intake.
Click to expand...
As TTE Says, the turbo manifold is adapted with a plate to fit the 1.8t studs to tfsi clips and the outer turbo is machined to fit 1.8t type downpipes (is that i have research)
For the othe parts i have listed this ones:
IE forged H-Beam Rods+ARP bolts
Bosch EV14 630cc injectors
Arp headstud bolts
Toyosports 600x300x76 intercooler
Supersize tip
Jetex in airbox mod
049 wideband maf (wideband harness swap in process)
76mm downpipe+decat+Catback
Quaife LSD
FX Stage 3 Clutch kit+Flywheel
APS 265lph in-tank pump
And i’m thinking of buy oem pistons or 8.5compression Mahle
Ah! I forgot to mention that i’m thinking if i will need big port head and inconel supertech valves
 
Last edited:
<tuffty/> said:
064 based turbo aren't the easiest turbo in the world to fit on a quattro...

Plug and play they aren't

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...
I don’t like other turbos because the external wastage’s like GT/GTX and their lowest spool and big lag. Will i have troubble with the quattro system? I have tried a GT28RS ibiza with 360bhp and was fast but big lag and low spool. :)
 
audi upgrades
Prawn said:
Hybrid compromise or a proper big turbo.

There is no comparison to be made there.

Efr all the way of those options.
Click to expand...
What compromise with hybrids? They are made with oem parts and they are more driveable. The driving feel of a gt is so different than a hybrid that is same as the oem turbo
 
Lulinfornoah said:
I don’t like other turbos because the external wastage’s like GT/GTX and their lowest spool and big lag. Will i have troubble with the quattro system? I have tried a GT28RS ibiza with 360bhp and was fast but big lag and low spool. :)
Click to expand...
Lag is only a thing if you build it wrong and drive it wrong... inherently bigger turbos will be 'laggier' as they are designed to flow more but the engines are small... an 064 frame turbo will spool quicker but hybrids won't spool as quick as you may think and lack the top end flow due to compromised hotsides...

External wastegate makes ****** all difference to spool...

Not sure what you mean by 'have trouble with the quattro system' but due to the fitment of the 064 turbo and the proximity of the transfer box and prop shaft things are very tight and you will be doing a lot of fabrication work to get it to fit...

Worked on one before and prefer working on mine with a GT35 than an 064...

Also note that TTE figures are PS not BHP...

<tuffty/>
 
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<tuffty/> said:
Lag is only a thing if you build it wrong and drive it wrong... inherently bigger turbos will be 'laggier' as they are designed to flow more but the engines are small... an 064 frame turbo will spool quicker but hybrids won't spool as quick as you may think and lack the top end flow due to compromised hotsides...

External wastegate makes ****** all difference to spool...

Not sure what you mean by 'have trouble with the quattro system' but due to the fitment of the 064 turbo and the proximity of the transfer box and prop shaft things are very tight and you will be doing a lot of fabrication work to get it to fit...

Worked on one before and prefer working on mine with a GT35 than an 064...

Also note that TTE figures are PS not BHP...

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...
For example in th gt28 ibiza wasn’t too laggy but there was huge difference with the other tt420 i tested.
Yes.. i was thinking about the problem of the hotsides and the top end power.
I was scared about external wastages because they are not plug&play but apart from that they are far better.
Bhp is not same as hp i know friend :) many thanks!
So the likes are EFR6758 or GT3071R then?
And do you recommend forged Mahle pistons or oem mahle pistons?
 
The big thing here, is that to get the power from a hybrid, you have to run it HOT and HARD to make the figures. You're making the power from early torque, and generally it'll be all over by 6k. Punchy, but not the sportiest of deliveries.

With a bigger turbo you can run them much less hard to get the numbers, and everything runs cooler.
Sure, you may lose 1000rpm on spool up, but you gain more than 1000rpm at the other end with a turbo that'll make power right out to 8k rpm. So the power band you're left with can still be wider, it's just a case of learning to drive it differently.

I myself struggled with this immediately after fitting my Gtx3076, but I soon learned its just a different style of driving, and when you get used to it, the big turbo is just leagues ahead of any small framed compromised hybrid
 
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GT2871 won't do 450hp on a 1.8t...

GT3071 or GT3076 is needed for that...

<tuffty/>
 
Lulinfornoah said:
As TTE Says, the turbo manifold is adapted with a plate to fit the 1.8t studs to tfsi clips and the outer turbo is machined to fit 1.8t type downpipes (is that i have research)
For the othe parts i have listed this ones:
IE forged H-Beam Rods+ARP bolts
Bosch EV14 630cc injectors
Arp headstud bolts
Toyosports 600x300x76 intercooler
Supersize tip
Jetex in airbox mod
049 wideband maf (wideband harness swap in process)
76mm downpipe+decat+Catback
Quaife LSD
FX Stage 3 Clutch kit+Flywheel
APS 265lph in-tank pump
And i’m thinking of buy oem pistons or 8.5compression Mahle
Ah! I forgot to mention that i’m thinking if i will need big port head and inconel supertech valves
Click to expand...


that doesn't "feel" like plug and play to me :D that's £7K and 30-40 hours labour?

what 1.8T downpipes? a Cupra R is FWD isn't it so a different downpipe to an S3 K04 frame because of the prop shaft, I am really not an expert in this field what-so-ever but the closet I have seen which could be deemed plug and play is the ATE380 Badger5 offers as that is a K04 frame so the manifold, inlet and downpipe are all in the same place. everything else I have seen on this requires fabrication.
 
Lulinfornoah said:
the outer turbo is machined to fit 1.8t type downpipes
Click to expand...
The turbo is oriented the opposite way round to a K04... hotside points towards the gearbox so no, a typical 1.8t downpipe won't fit...

You will need to have a custom one made... having been involved in making one for an S3 I can tell you they are not much fun

<tuffty/>
 
audi upgrades
<tuffty/> said:
GT2871 won't do 450hp on a 1.8t...

GT3071 or GT3076 is needed for that...

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...

Lets clarify this, lol.
For a GT3071 to make 450hp on a 1.8t it need a bit of luck and a T3 external Wastegate with a decent tubular manifold - not an ATP log manifold.
 
antwan64og said:
Lets clarify this, lol.
For a GT3071 to make 450hp on a 1.8t it need a bit of luck and a T3 external Wastegate with a decent tubular manifold - not an ATP log manifold.
Click to expand...

496hp t25 housing and flange, internal wastegate I do run nortech mani and have . 86 exhaust housing though
 
Do you also have a stroked engine with larger pistons?
 
Prawn said:
The big thing here, is that to get the power from a hybrid, you have to run it HOT and HARD to make the figures. You're making the power from early torque, and generally it'll be all over by 6k. Punchy, but not the sportiest of deliveries.

With a bigger turbo you can run them much less hard to get the numbers, and everything runs cooler.
Sure, you may lose 1000rpm on spool up, but you gain more than 1000rpm at the other end with a turbo that'll make power right out to 8k rpm. So the power band you're left with can still be wider, it's just a case of learning to drive it differently.

I myself struggled with this immediately after fitting my Gtx3076, but I soon learned its just a different style of driving, and when you get used to it, the big turbo is just leagues ahead of any small framed compromised hybrid
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice mate! So the turbo will spool later but i will have a bigger powerband, like a NA car style, so no problems, my dad has a ef8 crx hahaha.
Yeah i feel the decrease in power at 6k in my friend’s tte420.
 
Stuart B said:
that doesn't "feel" like plug and play to me :D that's £7K and 30-40 hours labour?

what 1.8T downpipes? a Cupra R is FWD isn't it so a different downpipe to an S3 K04 frame because of the prop shaft, I am really not an expert in this field what-so-ever but the closet I have seen which could be deemed plug and play is the ATE380 Badger5 offers as that is a K04 frame so the manifold, inlet and downpipe are all in the same place. everything else I have seen on this requires fabrication.
Click to expand...
I write that i read in the info of TTE... they said that “plug&play aplication”
So mistake from me to thing that was easy to fit :huh: Then i don’t want TTE440. Thanks!
 
Lulinfornoah said:
I have been told that 3071 is for lows 450bhp and 3076 500+, so the efr6758 is between this two right?
Click to expand...
Not ever used one personally so dunno off hand but I know EFR's are very sensitive to shaft speed so you can't run them hard... the turbines have a tendency to explode if span too hard (when trying to push the boost)

3076 will do low 400's... you simply turn the boost down :)

Amount of work is the same for any turbo at this level... if changing the pistons then personally I'd use forged... just watch the bore tolerances as some can be a little optimistic due to intended use... 2618 forgings expand more so you tend to get a little slap when cold due to the larger bore tolerances...

4032 forgings are generally more durable for street use and use more OE bore tolerances making for a quieter engine... 4032 is not as ductile though and under extreme load a more prone to cracking than 2618... I suspect you would have to go some to do that though...

<tuffty/>
 
<tuffty/> said:
Not ever used one personally so dunno off hand but I know EFR's are very sensitive to shaft speed so you can't run them hard... the turbines have a tendency to explode if span too hard (when trying to push the boost)

3076 will do low 400's... you simply turn the boost down :)

Amount of work is the same for any turbo at this level... if changing the pistons then personally I'd use forged... just watch the bore tolerances as some can be a little optimistic due to intended use... 2618 forgings expand more so you tend to get a little slap when cold due to the larger bore tolerances...

4032 forgings are generally more durable for street use and use more OE bore tolerances making for a quieter engine... 4032 is not as ductile though and under extreme load a more prone to cracking than 2618... I suspect you would have to go some to do that though...

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...
Thanks Tuffty, so my first choice is GT3076R at the moment, i have seen CTS complete turbo kits.
Regarding to pistons, many thanks for the info! I will choose Mahle’s 4032 casting for street use.
About the boost, for daily 1,5bar is okey? And for some situations 1,8-2,0bars is the safe limit right?
Cheers!
 
Lulinfornoah said:
Thanks Tuffty, so my first choice is GT3076R at the moment, i have seen CTS complete turbo kits.
Regarding to pistons, many thanks for the info! I will choose Mahle’s 4032 casting for street use.
About the boost, for daily 1,5bar is okey? And for some situations 1,8-2,0bars is the safe limit right?
Cheers!
Click to expand...
Personally I would avoid the CTS kits... the manifolds are not the best and the supplied downpipe for RHD cars is too small (2.5" out the turbo!) and ill fitting... the supplied fittings and lines are cheap and nasty...

Get a proper tubular mani (nortech for example like Badger5 supplies) who also do a matching downpipe... v-banded GT3071r, 44mm wastegate (tial MVR or Turbosmart)..

Bill can also supply all the parts needed to fabricate the oil and water lines...

Boost limit will be partially down to how well your setup will deal with flow.... boost pressure is an indicator of restriction... the less flow capability your setup has through the engine the more boost is generally required to get the air through it... its not all about the boost...

I run 2.2bar after 6krpm on mine but mines a fully built engine, ported large port head, large inlet etc... in some cases running 2bar through a more restricted setup creates more heat than power so you may find that you make no more power after 1.6bar of boost...

It also depends on who's tuning it too... some tuners will just turn up the boost without worrying about it but in my experience you have to balance boost with heat and reliability... and all 1.8t's I have worked on are different... some make more power than others on the same hardware

I would suggest you look at Prawns recent updates on on thread... he has recently fitted a GT3076 and the process/parts etc will be simialr to what you are trying to do

<tuffty/>
 
Lulinfornoah said:
Hi fellas! After two years working and studying i have had my s3 stored in my warehouse for a wile, still stock but with koni shocks. So at the moment i want to get big power, around the 450bhp mark. I have a friend with a TTE420 in a Cupra R and i want more power. At the moment my toughts are The “plug&play” turbos, like the TTE440 (TTE480 1.8t fitment)or the EFR6758. But i haven’t found any info about the TTE440 (my first option because it’s 500€ cheapper)
Cheers for any advice or info
Click to expand...
lmao - hardly plug and play and 064 based setup on 1.8t
 
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<tuffty/> said:
Personally I would avoid the CTS kits... the manifolds are not the best and the supplied downpipe for RHD cars is too small (2.5" out the turbo!) and ill fitting... the supplied fittings and lines are cheap and nasty...

Get a proper tubular mani (nortech for example like Badger5 supplies) who also do a matching downpipe... v-banded GT3071r, 44mm wastegate (tial MVR or Turbosmart)..

Bill can also supply all the parts needed to fabricate the oil and water lines...

Boost limit will be partially down to how well your setup will deal with flow.... boost pressure is an indicator of restriction... the less flow capability your setup has through the engine the more boost is generally required to get the air through it... its not all about the boost...

I run 2.2bar after 6krpm on mine but mines a fully built engine, ported large port head, large inlet etc... in some cases running 2bar through a more restricted setup creates more heat than power so you may find that you make no more power after 1.6bar of boost...

It also depends on who's tuning it too... some tuners will just turn up the boost without worrying about it but in my experience you have to balance boost with heat and reliability... and all 1.8t's I have worked on are different... some make more power than others on the same hardware

I would suggest you look at Prawns recent updates on on thread... he has recently fitted a GT3076 and the process/parts etc will be simialr to what you are trying to do

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...
Tuffty, i was thinking about the cts kit because it has all the parts, btw if they are cheap parts ill not choose it. Regarding to the downpipe, my car is LHD (i’m from canary islands, spain) and idk if Bill sends to spain.
Thank you again for so many info!
If you travel to the islands you deserve a coffee Haha
Ill take a look of Prawn’s post :)
 
badger5 said:
lmao - hardly plug and play and 064 based setup on 1.8t
Click to expand...
Copy paste from the TTE kit info:
“Direct bolt on
450hp Capable
Genuine BorgWarner modified housings including
CNC Machined exhaust manifold for 1.8T fitment
CNC Adaption hardware for exhaust manifold 1.8T fitment
Genuine Borg Warner turbine / shaft
Genuine Borg Warner actuator
Pierburg N75 valve included
Designed, Machined & Built by TTE in Germany”
Anyway, Bill, do you Ship to spain?
 
I think the point has been made that they obviously forgot about 4 wheel drive cars with their compatibility with an 064 turbo frame, prawn fitted one a few years ago (after going through his thread ;) ) but has an FWD A3 - whereas you have an S3 so a downpipe on the wrong side of the turbo.

I think you have moved on from the TTE now in any case, I am surprised that Si from TTE has not said anything on this thread?
 
Stuart B said:
I think the point has been made that they obviously forgot about 4 wheel drive cars with their compatibility with an 064 turbo frame, prawn fitted one a few years ago (after going through his thread ;) ) but has an FWD A3 - whereas you have an S3 so a downpipe on the wrong side of the turbo.

I think you have moved on from the TTE now in any case, I am surprised that Si from TTE has not said anything on this thread?
Click to expand...
Ive already talked to him and he only said he has any info or dyno :(
Yes i was thinking that TTE write it like it fits all 1.8t’s and they only fit FWD because the problem with the transfer box
 
Lulinfornoah said:
Copy paste from the TTE kit info:
“Direct bolt on
450hp Capable
Genuine BorgWarner modified housings including
CNC Machined exhaust manifold for 1.8T fitment
CNC Adaption hardware for exhaust manifold 1.8T fitment
Genuine Borg Warner turbine / shaft
Genuine Borg Warner actuator
Pierburg N75 valve included
Designed, Machined & Built by TTE in Germany”
Anyway, Bill, do you Ship to spain?
Click to expand...
I ship worldwide dude.
what you dont get with the 064 onto 1.8t, is downpipe, oil feed line, water lines, drain, intake, and any charge pipework to feed it... Thats a lot of missing hardware vs going full frame larger turbo.. Not one 1.8t part is reusable on an 064 conversion.. Make your own comparison, but you will see you need to do everything else to suit also. (same as the likes of our vband top mounted garrett based kits we build from)
 
badger5 said:
I ship worldwide dude.
what you dont get with the 064 onto 1.8t, is downpipe, oil feed line, water lines, drain, intake, and any charge pipework to feed it... Thats a lot of missing hardware vs going full frame larger turbo.. Not one 1.8t part is reusable on an 064 conversion.. Make your own comparison, but you will see you need to do everything else to suit also. (same as the likes of our vband top mounted garrett based kits we build from)
Click to expand...
Send me a PM with those kits when you can, mate, i will apreciate it
 
Unless you’re happy with a 20vt hybrid bolt on power then go big turbo. My “big” turbo build wasn’t laggy in day to day driving unless you expect it to pull hard from 2000rpm in 6th gear like a diesel. Its all about good mapping and correctly matched hardware. Also learning to use a gearbox properly helps.
 
JonnyDerv said:
Unless you’re happy with a 20vt hybrid bolt on power then go big turbo. My “big” turbo build wasn’t laggy in day to day driving unless you expect it to pull hard from 2000rpm in 6th gear like a diesel. Its all about good mapping and correctly matched hardware. Also learning to use a gearbox properly helps.
Click to expand...
I’ve been thinking about it and have tried others turbos and my final Choice is the AET-380 package from Badger5, is a lot of work involved to do a gt conversion and the difference doesn’t worth the money imo, 2-2.5k more for 60-80bhp more... and in my small island i’m not going to miss that haha
 
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