Drive by cable 3.8 ecu models

[Dohcwp]

So after going through some self study guides on the Me 3.8 cable driven models this weekend i have found out that AGN's have VVT (im assuming like the APY s3's) but strangely AGU's dont

Also the 3.8 Ecu's do have a can gateway contrary to popular believe as the 01m automatic transmissions like mine communicate via canbus as well as the abs system and comfort module. which means its probably not that complicated to get a dq250 dsg hooked up to a automatic agu or agn as its already communicating via the can gateway.

so what interested me was cruise control as almost everyone keeps saying that to retrofit cruise control on a cable driven model is almost impossible, but apparently its not.

what you'll need is a CC stalk, the harness (same as the E throttle models) and a cruise control throttle body

for the AGU cruise control throttle body the part number is 06A133063F

the cruise control doesn't work with a vacuum system as most people made it out to be, there is a stepper system in the throttle body that locks into place when the cruise control is activated.

so to install you wire up the stalk and harness as in this awesome guide by Endecy
the best ecu pinout i found was for the AGZ V5 engine that runs on the same 3.8 motronic ecu's as the pre facelift a3's and golfs

the ross tech site is a bit vague on whether coding is required to enable cruise control on the ecu or not, im guessing it wont be needed as none of the guides mention anything about coding

I have already ordered my stalk and will update further once i have all the parts to install cruise control on my AGN.

 

[<tuffty/>]

im assuming like the APY s3's

You assume incorrectly... APY s3's didn't have VVT, AMK/BAM did along with all 20v engines circa 2001 on... was used for emissions essentially...

<tuffty/>

 

[Dohcwp]

so was the AGN the only pre 2000 model with vvt ?

 

[<tuffty/>]

Pass... lol... would have been on the cusp of the change over I would imagine

<tuffty/>

 

[badger5]

so was the AGN the only pre 2000 model with vvt ?

pretty sure ~I have seen an ADR smallport with vvt also (ADR seen in small and largeport... just to confuse thing even more))

 

[S3Powerxz]

From where are these diagrams?

 

[Erikn89nl]

From where are these diagrams?

I was wondering that too, looks like an official manual type document, and a very interesting one at that!

 

[william45]

hello so you can get cruise controle on agu or not ?

 

[Ausgtiagu]

hello so you can get cruise controle on agu or not ?

They do have cruise control, least my 2000 agu gti does, if yours isnt working (or to check if it has it) have a look if theres a button type switch infront of the clutch pedal, if there is, make sure it is making contact when the pedal is out (must be a safety feature as to not engage cruise control when clutch is engaged)
Edit: if it is not contacting the pedal, grab the button and pull out/extend the pin, you will hear very obvious clicks when you do this

 

[DjDecibel]

@Dohcwp did you manage to retrofit the cruise on the AGU engine?
i read that the ecu M3.8.3 software is different on the cruise control version and non cruise version..

can i retrofit it, will it work? and wat are the ecu pins fro the M3.8.3?

 

[DjDecibel]

ok, i'm here to write some info about my retrofit process:
first of all i bought the stalker retrofit kit oem (which includes 2 different harness depending on the ecu connector type)

it arrived with:
- 1j0 953 513 - new stalk
- 1j0 971 425 A - Wiring harness from stalk to derivation box
- 1j0 971 425 B - wiring Harness from derivation box to ECU <--- The one needed for AGU ME 3.8.3 connector
- 1j0 971 425 C - wiring Harness from derivation box to ECU

then i bought the Throttle body:
as indicated in this guide the VW oem code is 06A133063F, it is produced by VDO with printed code 408-236-212-004 (on auto-doc the price is about 340€)
but i bought it branded SIDAT with code 88.007, it was just rebranded and inside i got a original VDO throttle for only 130€.

i started retrofitting the stalker and the wirings:
all went ok except that on my car the black connector was not present, so i used the empty holes on the brown connectors, then pointed the second wiring to the ECU.

the AGU pinout for the Cruise control is:
34 - Red/yellow
35 - blue/grey
36 - white
46 - black/white

now the second problem:
the connector on the 2 throttles are different!! the F version has the external shape reversed.. but the pin position is the same..
so i found the correct connector and reinsert the pin in the correct positions

and the third problem:
the cuise is not activable by coding because vcds return an error:
- Login Code Not Accepted by Controller

the solution is to write the correct software on the ecu or replace the ecu with the correct one,
my car (Golf 4) has a eco code 06A 906 018 R
the cruise version of it is 06A 906 018 BB

i'm learning how to edit the original software but is not so simple as this kind of ecu are not readable without desoldering the eeprom, but only writable with MPPS intefarce

 

[Roxxas]

ok, i'm here to write some info about my retrofit process:
first of all i bought the stalker retrofit kit oem (which includes 2 different harness depending on the ecu connector type)

it arrived with:
- 1j0 953 513 - new stalk
- 1j0 971 425 A - Wiring harness from stalk to derivation box
- 1j0 971 425 B - wiring Harness from derivation box to ECU <--- The one needed for AGU ME 3.8.3 connector
- 1j0 971 425 C - wiring Harness from derivation box to ECU

then i bought the Throttle body:
as indicated in this guide the VW oem code is 06A133063F, it is produced by VDO with printed code 408-236-212-004 (on auto-doc the price is about 340€)
but i bought it branded SIDAT with code 88.007, it was just rebranded and inside i got a original VDO throttle for only 130€.

i started retrofitting the stalker and the wirings:
all went ok except that on my car the black connector was not present, so i used the empty holes on the brown connectors, then pointed the second wiring to the ECU.

the AGU pinout for the Cruise control is:
34 - Red/yellow
35 - blue/grey
36 - white
46 - black/white

now the second problem:
the connector on the 2 throttles are different!! the F version has the external shape reversed.. but the pin position is the same..
so i found the correct connector and reinsert the pin in the correct positions

and the third problem:
the cuise is not activable by coding because vcds return an error:
- Login Code Not Accepted by Controller

the solution is to write the correct software on the ecu or replace the ecu with the correct one,
my car (Golf 4) has a eco code 06A 906 018 R
the cruise version of it is 06A 906 018 BB

i'm learning how to edit the original software but is not so simple as this kind of ecu are not readable without desoldering the eeprom, but only writable with MPPS intefarce

Hey, thank you for your comment, it is very precious. Would you be able to send out photos of your connections ? I seem to have the same problem as you had. I would have to connect the wirings to the ECU and the wirings from the stalk to the pins for electrical wirings. Also were you able to write on the ECU or would I have to get a new ECU ?

 

[DjDecibel]

Hey, thank you for your comment, it is very precious. Would you be able to send out photos of your connections ? I seem to have the same problem as you had. I would have to connect the wirings to the ECU and the wirings from the stalk to the pins for electrical wirings. Also were you able to write on the ECU or would I have to get a new ECU ?

after doing all the possible tests the only solution was to buy a BB ending ecu..
as i can understand there's a hardware missing part in the non cruise agu ecu and it will not communicate with the throttle correctly

i just fitted today a BB ecu and now i have the test in vcds ad adress 66 working but still the cruise does not activate.. tomorrow i'll do some other checks

 

[DjDecibel]

ok, i finally found the solution, and i can say: Retrofit DONE and working!

the last problem was the brake switch:
the early golf 4 has a 2 wire brake switch

so i had to upgrade it with a 4 wire switch (green one)!

then i routed other 2 wires to the ECU for the brake signals!

the clutch wire was already wired!

so at the end for retrofitting the cruise control on my MK4 golf GTI with AGU engine i did those steps:

- Replaced the stalker with the cruise control version (like on the DBW retrofit guide) and connected his wiring and routed part of it to the ECU
- Replaced the engine ECU with a Cruise control one
- Replaced the Throttle body with the vdo with code 06A133063F
- Replaced the throttle body connector (or remove and re-pin it correctly)
- Replaced the 2 pin Brake switch with the 4 pin version

 

[Limitedblack]

Hey, thank you for your comment, it is very precious. Would you be able to send out photos of your connections ? I seem to have the same problem as you had. I would have to connect the wirings to the ECU and the wirings from the stalk to the pins for electrical wirings. Also were you able to write on the ECU or would I have to get a new ECU ?

I have been researching this for the golf AGZ V5, that also uses the motronic m3.8.3 ECU. I made a discovery via the German VCDS forum. The ECU is standard model (not proven yet), but the solution is simple soft code in VCDS. The 5 digit soft code simply needs a 1 adding.

From model year 2000:



? 00xx: Cruise control system (GRA)

0 - Cruise control system (GRA) deactivated

1 - Cruise control system (GRA) activated



X00? X: CAN data bus

+1 - ABS

+2 - Airbag x00x?: Transmission

1 - 5-speed manual transmission

2 - 6-speed manual transmission

3 - Automatic transmission

4 - Automatic transmission (passat variant only)