Hill Hold Assist

[Psychoscot]

So, I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding Hill Hold Assist, or if mine has stopped working - 1.4 manual.

Have pressed the button, LED on button is lit. When coming to a halt in the car the green P appears on the dash.

Come to a halt on a slope, footbrake applied, into neutral. Green P lights up, come off the clutch, auto start/stop engages.

Getting ready to move off, depress clutch, engine starts. Bring clutch up towards/through biting point and the car starts to roll back if you don't give it gas - I thought this was what Hill Hold Assist was meant to prevent?

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[Terminator x]

On mine it engages when you come to a stop. I leave it in gear and just pull away from stopped. I have auto though?

TX.

Edit - afaik it is just there so you don't have to pull h/brake every time stopped rather than "helping" on a slope.



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[Psychoscot]

I think that's "Hold assist" rather than "Hill Hold Assist" (great naming choice Audi!).

As per the handbook:

"Hill starting with the hill hold assist
The hill hold assist function makes it easier to
drive away on a slope.
Important: The driver's door must be closed and
the engine must be running.
... To activate the hill hold assist, press and hold
the brake pedal for several seconds. The vehicle
must be on a slope and facing uphill.
When you release the brake pedal the braking
force will be maintained for a moment in
order to hold the vehicle and make it easier for
you to drive away"

And

"The intelligent technology in the hold assist*
and hill hold assist functions cannot defy the
laws of physics. Do not let the extra conven-
ience afforded by the hold assist* and hill
hold assist functions tempt you into taking
any risks when driving - this can cause acci-
dents.
- The hold assist* and hill hold assist func-
tions cannot keep the vehicle stationary in
all conditions on a gradient (e.g. if the road
is slippery or icy).
- Always ensure that the vehicle is stopped
properly and safely - risk of accident!"

Especially the 2nd section makes me think it should hold on a dry hill, but now re-reading the 1st section makes me think that maybe I need to keep the brake depressed when stopped, then when I lift the clutch the HHA will kick in?

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[Psychoscot]

Actually, thinking about this the handbook makes no sense. When I specced the car (end Oct 17) Hill Hold Assist was an optional extra, which I chose, which meant I get the extra button beside the parking brake. But the manual says:

"Driving off with the hold assist
Applies to: vehicles with hold assist
The hold assist helps the driver if the vehicle is
stationary for a long period or very often, for in-
stance at traffic lights, on steep gradients or in
stop-and-go traffic.
Important: The driver's door must be closed and
the engine must be running.
11- To switch the hold assist on/off, press the but-
ton (@) @�page 101, Fig. 114, � ,&.. The LED
in the button will light up or go out.
11- Once it detects that the vehicle has stopped,
the hold assist keeps the vehicle stationary. In
this case, a green indicator lamp II] lights up in
the instrument cluster. You can now take your
foot off the brake pedal.
11- Drive off in the normal way: the brake will be
released automatically and the vehicle will
start moving.
In certain situations, the hold assist transfers the
job of holding the vehicle to the parking brake.
As soon as the parking brake is holding the vehi-
cle still, the warning lamp. appears in the in-
strument cluster. In addition, the LED in the()
button will light up."

I.e. the button is for hold assist, not hill Hold Assist, but HA was meant to be standard and HHA an option, but you only get the button if you spec HHA...

Is it just me or is this batshit?

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[psychopomp1]

I would ignore the manual, its confusing. Hill Hold Assisit (if activated ) will hold the car anywhere, not just on hills or slopes if you come to a stop.

 

[Psychoscot]

That's what I thought, but as I said, as soon as I come up to the biting point the green P goes out and the car starts to roll back - which is exactly the behaviour of the standard EPB.

 

[psychopomp1]

That's what I thought, but as I said, as soon as I come up to the biting point the green P goes out and the car starts to roll back - which is exactly the behaviour of the standard EPB.

Think of HHA as an automatic electronic parking brake, albeit temporary. What happens if you switch off HHA altogether and then say you're waiting on a steep hill (uphill), switch on your regular electronic parking brake and then try to move forward without deactivating the parking brake? Does the red P light go off and the car still rolls back when you bring the clutch up? If it does, it means your HHA is working as it should.

 

[Psychoscot]

I'll have to give that a go - but are you really saying that all HHA does is apply the EPB when you come to a halt? I'm sure I read that when pulling away on a gradient it's meant to apply power to prevent you from rolling back - and I thought mine was doing that initially, but certainly isn't now.

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[Psychoscot]

So, I've tried this, and here's what happens - I have a manual box.

HHA ACTIVE

Come to a halt on a hill, clutch in, neutral, foot brake depressed. Green P light comes on.
Come off foot brake, clutch out, auto start/stop kicks in.
Clutch back in, engine starts.
Pull up to biting point, green P light goes out, car rolls backwards.

HHA INACTIVE

Come to a halt on a hill, clutch in, neutral, foot brake depressed. Apply EPB. Red P light comes on.
Come off foot brake, clutch out, auto start/stop kicks in.
Clutch back in, engine starts.
Pull up to biting point, red P light goes out, car rolls backwards.

I don't think this is correct. This sounds to me like the HOLD ASSIST functionality - quoting the handbook "Once it detects that the vehicle has stopped, the hold assist keeps the vehicle stationary. In this case, a green indicator lamp lights up in the instrument cluster. You can now take your
foot off the brake pedal. Drive off in the normal way: the brake will be released automatically and the vehicle will start moving."

For HILL HOLD ASSIST the manual states "To activate the hill hold assist, press and hold the brake pedal for several seconds. The vehicle must be on a slope and facing uphill. When you release the brake pedal the braking force will be maintained for a moment in order to hold the vehicle and make it easier for you to drive away"

Now I've typed the above, I think maybe I need to be depressing the foot brake as I bring the clutch up, which kind of goes against the whole point of HOLD ASSIST.

Does anyone with a manual actually know if they can use HHA to stop rolling back on a hill?

Think of HHA as an automatic electronic parking brake, albeit temporary. What happens if you switch off HHA altogether and then say you're waiting on a steep hill (uphill), switch on your regular electronic parking brake and then try to move forward without deactivating the parking brake? Does the red P light go off and the car still rolls back when you bring the clutch up? If it does, it means your HHA is working as it should.

 

[gforrow]

What you describe above is how it worked in my manual A6. However, the process of lifting the clutch to the biting point, in gear and some revs on, the car always tended to pull away. I don't see how it can roll backwards if it's in gear with some revs, even at idle, unless on a steep hill.

Even with HHA, I could get the back of the car to sink to the road on a slope, i.e. I was quicker with the clutch and revs than the thing could disengage.

 

[psychopomp1]

So, I've tried this, and here's what happens - I have a manual box.

For HILL HOLD ASSIST the manual states "To activate the hill hold assist, press and hold the brake pedal for several seconds. The vehicle must be on a slope and facing uphill. When you release the brake pedal the braking force will be maintained for a moment in order to hold the vehicle and make it easier for you to drive away"

For a start this is rubbish in the manual. HHA when activated, will also come on when you've stopped on level ground, facing downhill and in pretty much all terrain gradients provided you press the brake pedal hard enough and come to a stop for more than a few secs.

TBH, your HHA is working as it should. I think the words HILL HOLD are causing confusion and gives the impression a manual car will not roll back on a hill under any conditions when its clearly not true.

 

[pjeffe9172]

On mine (which is manual) I come to a stop on the hill, keep my foot on the foot brake etc. When you remove your foot from the brake pedal, the car is only held for 2 - 3 seconds before it starts to roll. This is enough time to get the bite point and accelerate away. I don't think it is designed to hold for a long period of time. I don't think it applied the EPB as I don't hear it, I think it literally maintains pressure on the brakes.