Facelift BIL11 85 Audi RS3 Build

[billymc92]

Did MRC have any comments on the hardware you had fitted? I'm mainly asking about the air intake but any information would be interesting.

No mate they just said my car was there first one to do with all 3 bits of hardware together. He said it’s a shame they didn’t have a standard air box around to try out that on the road and see what the difference is so if anyone does go in take your spare air box just to get a separate run and see the difference.

 

[billymc92]

Great results.

But less torque than standard until 3500rpm. Is there anything proven on the market that can increase low down toruque/power?

A DTUK pedal box would solve this I believe. For the reviews I’ve heard of it and for only £200 I might give it a try.

 

[D0C]

Great results.

But less torque than standard until 3500rpm. Is there anything proven on the market that can increase low down toruque/power?

You're looking at the chart wrong. It has masses more torque at 3500rpm!!!

 

[1664Hatter]

You're looking at the chart wrong. It has masses more torque at 3500rpm!!!

The Torque and power is less than standard below 3500rpm.

At 3500rpm is where the torque curve starts to show greater gains than standard.

 

[Terminator x]

Interesting to see the FL standard torque curve as a bit "peaky" as the PFL was wide and flat from memory. I'll get a graph if I can find one.

TX.

Edit - got one:

 

[J_3_f_f]

No mate they just said my car was there first one to do with all 3 bits of hardware together. He said it’s a shame they didn’t have a standard air box around to try out that on the road and see what the difference is so if anyone does go in take your spare air box just to get a separate run and see the difference.

Whats your overall impression with the eventuri intake? The fitting seems well? Are you happy with the sound?


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[D0C]

The Torque and power is less than standard below 3500rpm.

At 3500rpm is where the torque curve starts to show greater gains than standard.

You're looking at the wrong lines. There's more power and torque at all revs!

At 3500rpm there's approx 340hp/680nm of power/torque instead of 270hp/530nm.

Red is before, blue is after.

 

[H4RDYRS3]

The Torque and power is less than standard below 3500rpm.

At 3500rpm is where the torque curve starts to show greater gains than standard.

You are reading the graph wrong matey...

The black dotted and black solid lines are the stage 2 map.

The red dotted and red solid are before the map.

 

[JamesCrs3]

Look at some of those mid range gains, around 140ps. Just mental!

 

[AudiNutta]

This to me proves how much Audi have had to wind back the power on these engines so as to not tread on the R8's shoes.

Further edit: the standard torque figure of 541nm... the FL cars I've seen seem to be comfortably eclipsing the supposed 480nm standard figure. @AudiNutta recall yours was similar.

I might get mine on a rolling road to see what it does.

Mine has returned a ridiculously high torque figure twice, on two runs 2000 miles apart!

The dyno operator can’t explain what has happened there either. I had 100lbft more than stock on both runs.

 

[D0C]

Mine has returned a ridiculously high torque figure twice, on two runs 2000 miles apart!

The dyno operator can’t explain what has happened there either. I had 100lbft more than stock on both runs.

Must be right then. These engines do seem to have higher peak figures, although as @terminator x says not as flat and more peaky perhaps.

 

[NevMan]

Great results.

But less torque than standard until 3500rpm. Is there anything proven on the market that can increase low down toruque/power?

TURBO

 

[AudiNutta]

Must be right then. These engines do seem to have higher peak figures, although as @terminator x says not as flat and more peaky perhaps.

Can’t have that much torque over standard, that’s a stage 1 figure haha. Just a dyno error somewhere that can’t be explained...

At 900 miles I got 396hp, at 3000 miles I got 411hp.... perhaps the dyno was out on the second run on bhp, that would suggest my standard car is putting out what Billy’s modified car was before the map....

 

[Beebee-one]

Mine has returned a ridiculously high torque figure twice, on two runs 2000 miles apart!

The dyno operator can’t explain what has happened there either. I had 100lbft more than stock on both runs.

Interesting that Billy's car had a version 3 ECU, maybe yours does too. Audi do sometimes update software so I would not be at all surprised if they had 'revised it' a little.

 

[Beebee-one]

You are reading the graph wrong matey...

The black dotted and black solid lines are the stage 2 map.

The red dotted and red solid are before the map.

What graph you are looking at? The two dotted lines are the before (the dotted red one) and after (the dotted black one) torque figures. The scale in nm is displayed on the right hand side. You can clearly see that from around 1700rpm that the remap is showing increased torque and really starts to stack up the numbers from 2500rpm onwards. The mid-range increase is massive! The power figures are in PS and are the two solid lines with the scale being on the left hand side of the chart.

These are impressive results for a stage 2, you would need to go to a TTE500 upgrade to get these numbers for the PFL car. I also suspect that once MRC have reviewed the mapping, then they will fine tune it to achieve even more.

 

[AudiNutta]

Interesting that Billy's car had a version 3 ECU, maybe yours does too. Audi do sometimes update software so I would not be at all surprised if they had 'revised it' a little.

In what way do you think that they would have made a change?

I’ve only had a dyno run on mine, totally stock. I was comparing what mine ran (411bhp), when Billy’s ran that with an intake and decat.

The 100lbft torque above standard just can’t be explained. Maybe I need to get it on a dyno with a company like MRC in the summer, but as it’s been said before.. dyno figures are a bit pointless really, can’t be worth me driving a couple of hours across country to simply have a dyno run on a stock car.

 

[D0C]

What graph you are looking at? The two dotted lines are the before (the dotted red one) and after (the dotted black one) torque figures. The scale in nm is displayed on the right hand side. You can clearly see that from around 1700rpm that the remap is showing increased torque and really starts to stack up the numbers from 2500rpm onwards. The mid-range increase is massive! The power figures are in PS and are the two solid lines with the scale being on the left hand side of the chart.

These are impressive results for a stage 2, you would need to go to a TTE500 upgrade to get these numbers for the PFL car. I also suspect that once MRC have reviewed the mapping, then they will fine tune it to achieve even more.

@Beebee-one re read his post...he's said exactly what you've just explained

 

[Beebee-one]

@Beebee-one re read his post...he's said exactly what you've just explained

Oooops, copied the wrong post. Should have been 1664Hatter. Apologies to H4RDYRS3

 

[Beebee-one]

In what way do you think that they would have made a change?

I’ve only had a dyno run on mine, totally stock. I was comparing what mine ran (411bhp), when Billy’s ran that with an intake and decat.

The 100lbft torque above standard just can’t be explained. Maybe I need to get it on a dyno with a company like MRC in the summer, but as it’s been said before.. dyno figures are a bit pointless really, can’t be worth me driving a couple of hours across country to simply have a dyno run on a stock car.

As you say, pointless to go miles just to get a dyno run on a stock car. You could go to exactly the same place the next day and get a different result. OK for comparison on same dyno, same day basis when tuning.
Audi have probably been making some software updates, hence the different iterations of ECU (my 2016 PFL car ecu is version 5 but my friends 2015 car is version 2). Doesn't necessarily mean that they are power upgrades though, it could be other software adjustments.

 

[1664Hatter]

My bad sorry

 

[AudiNutta]

As you say, pointless to go miles just to get a dyno run on a stock car. You could go to exactly the same place the next day and get a different result. OK for comparison on same dyno, same day basis when tuning.
Audi have probably been making some software updates, hence the different iterations of ECU (my 2016 PFL car ecu is version 5 but my friends 2015 car is version 2). Doesn't necessarily mean that they are power upgrades though, it could be other software adjustments.

Perhaps if there is a dyno day at some point in one of these places, I will tag along. The two I’ve had so far are on dyno days where they run at least 25 cars, so it’s a rush on and off job.

I wish I could have it mapped, but the warranty is too valuable.. unfortunately I don’t have enough money to be picking up the pieces if it goes pop haha.

 

[Beebee-one]

Perhaps if there is a dyno day at some point in one of these places, I will tag along. The two I’ve had so far are on dyno days where they run at least 25 cars, so it’s a rush on and off job.

I wish I could have it mapped, but the warranty is too valuable.. unfortunately I don’t have enough money to be picking up the pieces if it goes pop haha.

Ask yourself as to why and what may go pop. These 5 cylinder engines are not exactly made of chocolate and have large margins of engineering excellence built into them (unlike a Ford Focus RS for example). The gearboxes are pretty robust too and can handle up to 750nm. The Iroz Motorsport FL car has done 10k miles in various states of tune and currently runs around 750bhp (big turbo conversion) on stock internals and box (happy for someone to correct me on the latter). They plan to keep turning up the wick until it does break (to know the limits).
However, if you are a bit of an idiot and drive a car hard when its cold, insist on doing multiple launches one after the other for your mates and cane the nads out of it at every opportunity, then you should expect some trouble at some point.
Yes remaps can sometimes generate an occasional EML from a dodgy lambda sensor (simple to remedy), but choose your tuner and tuning parts wisely and you can still enjoy your car without any major issues.
Warning: The stock car is pretty good anyway, but once you start down the tuning path it can get addictive!

 

[D0C]

Ask yourself as to why and what may go pop. These 5 cylinder engines are not exactly made of chocolate and have large margins of engineering excellence built into them (unlike a Ford Focus RS for example). The gearboxes are pretty robust too and can handle up to 750nm. The Iroz Motorsport FL car has done 10k miles in various states of tune and currently runs around 750bhp (big turbo conversion) on stock internals and box (happy for someone to correct me on the latter). They plan to keep turning up the wick until it does break (to know the limits).
However, if you are a bit of an idiot and drive a car hard when its cold, insist on doing multiple launches one after the other for your mates and cane the nads out of it at every opportunity, then you should expect some trouble at some point.
Yes remaps can sometimes generate an occasional EML from a dodgy lambda sensor (simple to remedy), but choose your tuner and tuning parts wisely and you can still enjoy your car without any major issues.
Warning: The stock car is pretty good anyway, but once you start down the tuning path it can get addictive!

I agree with you that a good remap shouldn't harm the car. My only concern would be that if something did go wrong that was a manufacturing defect, Audi will regardless turn down a warranty claim, claiming it was caused by the tune.

 

[Terminator x]

O/T but over on P/Heads some chap was telling me that the A45 can run 600hp pretty much nay bother on standard internals etc as a lot of it is already "enhanced" parts.

TX.

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[Dodgygtr]

Bhp is fine on these engines it’s the torque that will brake things.
Iroz motorsport do say in one of their last videos that they have limited torque then will keep increasing it till it brakes, but with a built engine and upgraded clutches how much can the gearbox take?

I’m already contemplating doing the turbo and feeling and I’ve not even got the car yet, but I think stage 2/3 will do me for a few years.

 

[Beebee-one]

I agree with you that a good remap shouldn't harm the car. My only concern would be that if something did go wrong that was a manufacturing defect, Audi will regardless turn down a warranty claim, claiming it was caused by the tune.

Which is why I always wait at least two or three thousand miles to settle the engine/gearbox and by then any major faults/bugs/manufacturing defects should have appeared. Most of the issues with our cars seem to be fuel pressure sensor, squealing brakes, rattles from sunroof/dashboard, EML light appearing (another symptom of the fuel pressure issue), clonking suspension. Not issues that would be caused by a good stage 1 map for example. Something that goes 'pop' to my mind is a turbo or piston, maybe a rod. Probably the most likely component for problems would be issues with the dsg box. As previously mentioned in the above post, by choosing your tuner wisely and treating the car with some mechanical sympathy, a stage 1 tune should be well within the engine and drivetrain capabilities.

 

[DW81]

I read

Bhp is fine on these engines it’s the torque that will brake things.
Iroz motorsport do say in one of their last videos that they have limited torque then will keep increasing it till it brakes, but with a built engine and upgraded clutches how much can the gearbox take?

I’m already contemplating doing the turbo and feeling and I’ve not even got the car yet, but I think stage 2/3 will do me for a few years.

I read somewhere the stronic box can take upto 750nm of torque, very impressive if true.

 

[AudiNutta]

Ask yourself as to why and what may go pop. These 5 cylinder engines are not exactly made of chocolate and have large margins of engineering excellence built into them (unlike a Ford Focus RS for example). The gearboxes are pretty robust too and can handle up to 750nm. The Iroz Motorsport FL car has done 10k miles in various states of tune and currently runs around 750bhp (big turbo conversion) on stock internals and box (happy for someone to correct me on the latter). They plan to keep turning up the wick until it does break (to know the limits).
However, if you are a bit of an idiot and drive a car hard when its cold, insist on doing multiple launches one after the other for your mates and cane the nads out of it at every opportunity, then you should expect some trouble at some point.
Yes remaps can sometimes generate an occasional EML from a dodgy lambda sensor (simple to remedy), but choose your tuner and tuning parts wisely and you can still enjoy your car without any major issues.
Warning: The stock car is pretty good anyway, but once you start down the tuning path it can get addictive!

It’s my luck that’s the problem, 3 steering racks in 12k miles in my S3 should tell you that haha.. plus a wheel bearing. That’s a car that was launched 15 times maximum and genuinely cherished.

My friend had a stage 2 map on his PFL, 440hp result... the same day, a hole was blown in his gearbox.. spat all the oil out and inevitably seized solid. Audi voided the warranty, gearbox cost £6000 without labour. Car was rebuilt by Audi with the new box and it’s never been the same again, clunks and bangs... stalls for no known reason. Audi don’t want to know, the tuning company can’t figure it.

It’s the possibility of it happening, only takes once... £15k for an engine?

 

[Terminator x]

****** hell AN, remind me to stay away from you and your friends in case that bad luck is catching

TX.

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[AudiNutta]

****** hell AN, remind me to stay away from you and your friends in case that bad luck is catching

TX.

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Honestly stay well clear

If something can happen, it will happen to me

 

[billymc92]

Ok so just a quick write up for the ones who’s interested. I think I’ve covered everything but if use have anymore questions just fire away.

The car is quick, crazy quick. Definitely a 180+ maybe even 190+mph car now. You can definitely feel all that extra torque and horsepower now. Even in comfort when you just put your foot down it feels more brutal than the 400ps launch Control did.

In comfort when you are just cruising at the lower revs it’s slightly louder but not unbearable. I’m glad our cars have the valves to control this and I definitely would not have them unplugged anymore.

In dynamic either in S or M it’s a whole different story. The car is bonkers loud and the bangs on upshift are phenomenal. It even pops and bangs when you down shift or just let go of the throttle like we lost on the FL models (although it’s not as much and as loud as PFL) it is there now where as before I could only get them when stationary in P or N.

I noticed yesterday when revving it in my drive as I parked up that the stationary limiter is gone. It goes all the way to the red line now and god what a racket it makes. The noise of the bangs it makes at those revs are deafening. I have made a few videos and snapchats ect but just sounds so much quieter playing through the phone than in real life.

I’ve only had the car in the dry so not sure what it is like in the wet yet but I don’t get any wheel spin what so ever. It just grips to the road, even on my launch control. I have noticed a couple times though when I’m just accelerating ever so slightly there has been a couple times the traction control light has flickered on and off and I’ve not even been pushing the pedal hard so maybe just been a greasy bit of the road but it doesn’t feel like I’’m losing traction.

I am very curious of the 0-60 60-120 times ect but without a v box your never going to get the times down to the correct tenths of the seconds. I can only say from my LC it’s 0-150 in roughly 14 seconds. I’m very excited to get to the quarter mile and get my times in and get a few races too. Would also really be interested in the V-Max200 but that’s another trip down south but would be interested to try get cars top speed and find out what it’s like against the supercars that attend.

 

[Shawn8V]

Ok so just a quick write up for the ones who’s interested. I think I’ve covered everything but if use have anymore questions just fire away.

The car is quick, crazy quick. Definitely a 180+ maybe even 190+mph car now. You can definitely feel all that extra torque and horsepower now. Even in comfort when you just put your foot down it feels more brutal than the 400ps launch Control did.

In comfort when you are just cruising at the lower revs it’s slightly louder but not unbearable. I’m glad our cars have the valves to control this and I definitely would not have them unplugged anymore.

In dynamic either in S or M it’s a whole different story. The car is bonkers loud and the bangs on upshift are phenomenal. It even pops and bangs when you down shift or just let go of the throttle like we lost on the FL models (although it’s not as much and as loud as PFL) it is there now where as before I could only get them when stationary in P or N.

I noticed yesterday when revving it in my drive as I parked up that the stationary limiter is gone. It goes all the way to the red line now and god what a racket it makes. The noise of the bangs it makes at those revs are deafening. I have made a few videos and snapchats ect but just sounds so much quieter playing through the phone than in real life.

I’ve only had the car in the dry so not sure what it is like in the wet yet but I don’t get any wheel spin what so ever. It just grips to the road, even on my launch control. I have noticed a couple times though when I’m just accelerating ever so slightly there has been a couple times the traction control light has flickered on and off and I’ve not even been pushing the pedal hard so maybe just been a greasy bit of the road but it doesn’t feel like I’’m losing traction.

I am very curious of the 0-60 60-120 times ect but without a v box your never going to get the times down to the correct tenths of the seconds. I can only say from my LC it’s 0-150 in roughly 14 seconds. I’m very excited to get to the quarter mile and get my times in and get a few races too. Would also really be interested in the V-Max200 but that’s another trip down south but would be interested to try get cars top speed and find out what it’s like against the supercars that attend.

Get yourself a draggy gps box. Well Over half the price of a vbox almost a third of the price. (£150) , and just as accurate (within a few .00’s). Connects to your phone via an app and has a much more user friendly system.

 

[Beebee-one]

It’s my luck that’s the problem, 3 steering racks in 12k miles in my S3 should tell you that haha.. plus a wheel bearing. That’s a car that was launched 15 times maximum and genuinely cherished.

My friend had a stage 2 map on his PFL, 440hp result... the same day, a hole was blown in his gearbox.. spat all the oil out and inevitably seized solid. Audi voided the warranty, gearbox cost £6000 without labour. Car was rebuilt by Audi with the new box and it’s never been the same again, clunks and bangs... stalls for no known reason. Audi don’t want to know, the tuning company can’t figure it.

It’s the possibility of it happening, only takes once... £15k for an engine?

As I said, choose your tuning parts and tuner wisely.......... was it a custom tune (tailored to his car) from one of the top 3 or 4 Audi tuners such as APR, MRC, Revo or Litchfield? (although the latter two I would rate very much lower in preference to the first two).

 

[BottomFeeder]

What a machine!

 

[AudiNutta]

As I said, choose your tuning parts and tuner wisely.......... was it a custom tune (tailored to his car) from one of the top 3 or 4 Audi tuners such as APR, MRC, Revo or Litchfield? (although the latter two I would rate very much lower in preference to the first two).

It was a customised Revo map, very good tuner but not one mentioned on here.

 

[billymc92]

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/exhaust-rattle-after-fitting-downpipe.364457/

anyone help me out here?

 

[Boosta]

I was looking at getting the carbon intake, but after looking at the performance gains from Billy's 1st dyno, doesn't seem to be worth the £1500, just for some aesthetics' under the bonnet.

 

[Leo-RS]

They never are. Intakes are notorious for losing power. It’s probably the reason why MRC wanted to fit the stock airbox back in to test.

You can’t trust independent tests on anything as there’s always a hidden agenda to promote and sell the product.

The eventui to me looks small, (the filter itself) - The science behind it claiming a Venturi effect is all well and good but more often than not it’s just marketing boll*cks.

I think the most effective intake will be the stock setup (Audi’s R&D far more extensive and thorough than a tuning companies) but with a more free flowing filter element and a bigger turbo inlet pipe.

And then there’s the silly cost of the Eventuri.

There have been about 10 or so kits for the RS6 C7’s that MRC have tested, Eventuri’s in that list also and they have found them all losing power and reverting back to the stock boxes. After years tuning cars, aftermarket intake kits are now a big no no for me, best opting for small changes to the existing setup.

 

[AudiNutta]

They never are. Intakes are notorious for losing power. It’s probably the reason why MRC wanted to fit the stock airbox back in to test.

You can’t trust independent tests on anything as there’s always a hidden agenda to promote and sell the product.

The eventui to me looks small, (the filter itself) - The science behind it claiming a Venturi effect is all well and good but more often than not it’s just marketing boll*cks.

I think the most effective intake will be the stock setup (Audi’s R&D far more extensive and thorough than a tuning companies) but with a more free flowing filter element and a bigger turbo inlet pipe.

And then there’s the silly cost of the Eventuri.

There have been about 10 or so kits for the RS6 C7’s that MRC have tested, Eventuri’s in that list also and they have found them all losing power and reverting back to the stock boxes. After years tuning cars, aftermarket intake kits are now a big no no for me, best opting for small changes to the existing setup.

Interesting, thank you! I had been interested in an intake as a bolt on / off item that would add performance, that’s that off of the list.

What’s your opinion on K&N, for a more free-flowing setup with the existing intake?

 

[Leo-RS]

Interesting, thank you! I had been interested in an intake as a bolt on / off item that would add performance, that’s that off of the list.

What’s your opinion on K&N, for a more free-flowing setup with the existing intake?

Yes, an updated panel filter (K&N, ITG, Pipercross etc) in the stock box with a larger exit down to the turbo will I think anyway be the best bet. It’s the way some German tuners have already gone.

Something like this...

https://shop.hperformance.de/HPerformance-real-90mm-Ansaugung-fuer-25-TFSI-TT-RS-8S-RS3-8V-FL-400PS

There are cheaper alternatives though, that one is pretty pricy for what it is.