A4 B7 2.0 tfsi Quattro engine knocking on tickover, when hot :(

[Daza]

i love my a4 b7 quattro, only had it two months but it feels like im driving an old alfa, never know whats going to work and when.

Ok, i had oil pump failure, managed to turn it off straight away. Put a brand new ballancer pump in with new pick up also timing chain and tensioner at same time.

Car started and drove sweet as for about two weeks or so, i now get a knocking noise from cold start up wich lasts for about a second and ticks over fine, i can drive it flat out or easy and its sweet. Once it gets to temp (and i know temp is correct as i just fitted a new thermo, car sits bang on 90) it sound so bad on tick over, like a really noisy diesel, as you increase the throttle the noise goes as the revs climb up. where do i start, could it bee the VVT?

Daza

 

[Charlie Farley]

join the club chap, these engines are not really what one could describe as being quiet to be really honest, the fuel pumps can be very rattly aswell as other bits, mine is rattly aswell on tickover but as soon as you get underway it all gets more user friendly on the engine noise front and much more quiet.
I have been to a few decent indy service garages and they say mine is very quiet for a tfsi a4 engine , and I thought it was very noisy...if it is running ok with no other issues then just ignore the engines sound at tickover....
maybe if your concerned about it being something more sinister then drop into your nearest indy service place and get them to have a listen, certainly nothing to loose chap ...good luck.
rob

 

[Daza]

join the club chap, these engines are not really what one could describe as being quiet to be really honest, the fuel pumps can be very rattly aswell as other bits, mine is rattly aswell on tickover but as soon as you get underway it all gets more user friendly on the engine noise front and much more quiet.
I have been to a few decent indy service garages and they say mine is very quiet for a tfsi a4 engine , and I thought it was very noisy...if it is running ok with no other issues then just ignore the engines sound at tickover....
maybe if your concerned about it being something more sinister then drop into your nearest indy service place and get them to have a listen, certainly nothing to loose chap ...good luck.
rob

Hey Rob My concern is that it wasnt this noisy before the oil pump packed up, a little but nothing like this, also it wasnt making this noise after i fitted new pump either, i dont know why but it sounds like something that is oil fed and is not getting enough untill i up the revs

 

[Charlie Farley]

Did you carry out the repairs or a garage?

 

[Daza]

Did you carry out the repairs or a garage?

My friend who runs his own garage done the work, known him for years so no worry there, also he took a look and said mains and big ends were ok

 

[Charlie Farley]

Maybe there is a partial oil way blockage , sounds odd that it's starting knocking more now after a few weeks.
From previous threads I have read, some owners have suffered further engine issues and failures due to clogged oil ways etc, even though the pump had been replaced along with other parts there were issues with thick nasty oil still partially blocking major oil ways, in turn depriving major parts of that important oil pressure and flow at startup etc.
Had you considered getting the oil ways cleaned etc .
The cam chain tensioner is hydraulically operated and can also suffer from reduced oil flow and become less responsive and that can lead to noisy chain operation even with a new chain etc.

 

[Daza]

Maybe there is a partial oil way blockage , sounds odd that it's starting knocking more know after a few weeks.
From previous threads I have read, some owners have suffered further engine issues and failures due to clogged mileage etc, even though the pump had been replaced along with other parts there were issues with thick nasty oil still partially blocking major mileage, in turn depriving major parts of that important oil pressure and flow at startup etc.
Had you considered getting the oil ways cleaned etc .

the only thing we done was flushed it through, im more worried that it does it when hot only, if it was oil starvation i thought it would do it from start up

 

[Charlie Farley]

So to be clear , it rattles at startup hot and cold or just cold , is it a constant rattle or does it increase at the same time as the rpm rises.
What milage are you on now.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Have done the cam follower yet.

 

[Daza]

So to be clear , it rattles at startup hot and cold or just cold , is it a constant rattle or does it increase at the same time as the rpm rises.
What milage are you on now.

OK, it rattles or i should say knocks at start up for about a second or so, then goes, then ticks over perfect and no noise or rattle, once it gets hot and up to temp it ticks over fine but has a reall rattle nois thats not there when cold. this goes as you press the accelorator and make the revs rise to about 3K. Tha car has done 94.000 with service hisrory

 

[Daza]

Have done the cam follower yet.

No, are they noisey

 

[Charlie Farley]

The fuel pump cam follower can be noisy as it gets worn , have you run vcdsyet, as you can see a lot of live info and operating parameters whilst the engine running and anything out of the norm can also be identified.

 

[Charlie Farley]

i think you need to be sure the knocking noise you can now hear was deffo not there prior to your initial engine issues , if it was not there then it does narrow the field down a bit.
1) something was not replaced correctly when the work was carried out and is now showing signs of a problem , or, (2) another component or components have failed or are worn and either of these may also be connected to your initial engine problems but only rearing there head now, it may be just a coincidence .
As you say the guys did a good job on the initial fix then that would dispel that factor but the second may still be relavant.

Just out of interest, are you sure its the engine , I only ask as my dual mass flywheel is starting to wear now at 56k and recently went through a deep puddle and water head managed to get into the bellhousing, next day when I started up I had a right old clanky rattle at idle, after about 1300 -1500 rpm it disappeared , as soon as it was idling again the rattle was back, indy diagnosed it as the daul mass on the way out and was to account for the excessive rattling, anyway a couple of months on now its quieten down almost back to normal engine noise levels, still due for replacement but not just yet, maybe this is what you are experiencing.

 

[maxdrz400]

Seeing as you said it only does it on a cold engine for a second or two, could it be related to the temperature droping the past couple of weeks?

 

[Daza]

The fuel pump cam follower can be noisy as it gets worn , have you run vcdsyet, as you can see a lot of live info and operating parameters whilst the engine running and anything out of the norm can also be identified.

Not yet pal, im ordering a vcds lead tomoz, so ill wait and see what tha tells me, will keep

 

[ckl139]

Old thread, but wanted to know if you reached a conclusion on this?

 

[Daza]

Old thread, but wanted to know if you reached a conclusion on this?

Yes mate, fitted a new vvt unit at the back of the engine, my mechanic thinks it may have been on the way out before, and the oil pump giving up just finished it off. I have come to the conclusion though that these are not the quitest of engines

 

[ckl139]

What's was cost of part? Also is it a big job. Assume this isn't s preventative part?

 

[Charlie Farley]

Rear of the engine , on the end of the cyl head you will see a cover , inside is the cam chain and adjuster also the valve timing adjuster.
Most people normally replace the all 3 parts together, well if they are worn that is, they are not noted part's to be changed under the service schedule but can wear out and normally do.
Cam chain rattle can be heard normally on start up if it is worn , if it is worn then get it all replaced before it does more damage than just rattling.
Can be DIY replaced but the bolt that holds the adjuster on can be problematic so most owners get a garage to do it.

Just be aware that these engines are very rattly anyway on tickover, it's just the way things are , fuel pump is also noisy and accounts for most of the tapping to be heard at tickover.

 

[Charlie Farley]

The problem is that the cam chain adjuster is hydraulic and if there is a lack of oil pressure or flow to it then that is where the problems start and end sometimes with failure .
If the oil pump pickup gauze gets clogged and oil pressure falls , the lack of oil pressure to the tensioner will cause the cam chain to become slack leading to excessive wear to the sprocket teeth and possibly lead to the chain jumping of teeth , after that's it's down hill rapidly .
Also a slack cam chain will wear down the tensioner pad very quickly and you will get the problems that will be associated with it.

 

[Daza]

What's was cost of part? Also is it a big job. Assume this isn't s preventative part?

You can’t get pattern part pump, or you couldn’t when I was looking. Cost about £1000 for pump alone, I think I spent about 2.5 k on the work with new chain, oil pump, vvt unit and labour, and that was a mate doing it at his garage!

 

[Charlie Farley]

Is the car going well now chap.

 

[Daza]

Is the car going well now chap.

Yes pal, sweet as, cheeky remap was done when my mechanic was happy engine would put up with it, up to 248

 

[ckl139]

Thanks chaps.

I think my noise is just characteristics as you describe, going to leave alone for now and enjoy the car. Just had oil service, so should be good for while. Will start own build thread shortly.

 

[ikks]

Can a bad VVT (or tensioner / housing channels) cause low oil pressure?

I'm having the same noises reported by @Daza - the startup rattle and noisy warm engineon low rpms. Once it gets warm, the oil pressure seems to drop significantly. Bought the car with an unfinished 1.8T oil pump retrofit - changed the pump to a new one a month ago, finishing the retrofit with the the oil filter housing. Here's how the engine sounds and acts when hot -


I'm thinking about opening the engine for some bearings inspections, but I would like to leave this as the last thing to do. What else can I check first?

The car has new OEM tensioner and chain (but didn't touched the VVT), new valve lifters, rocker arms, hpfp follower. Runs pretty good, eats no oil (less than 100ml/1000km).

 

[ikks]

Back with the answer - yes it can. I changed the VVT a few weeks ago and car purrs now. And mind the pressure gauge showing no pressure in the previous post - it proved to be a bad gauge.