Its turning intoo a track car ....

[superkarl]

ha ha ha epic fail I was sitting here hang on Im sure someones mentioned this before! Fail. Sorry my bad. Ive got ****** manifolds coming out my **** at the moment Im sick of thinking about them!


It seems that when done correctly the Chinafold can be reliable and flow well for power. I wonder if the chinafold will unleash any more ponies on my car? Or drive different ?

Granted there is about 18 active hybrid discussions right now. You must be sick of the things


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[scotty_24]

I just want my car working again to get it out on track

Knockhill was amazing.

But by the looks of things shes seen the last of any drives out for this year

 

[StaceyS3]

E85 is a fuel of the gods

Seems on average to release anything up to 20% more power than pump fuel. WMi doe without a doubt bring gains to the table but i don't think quite as much as the corn juice and plus no one wants to tune the unreliable injection system over here in case it fails. If its in your fuel tank at least you know the knock protection is always present and can utilise this

Higher RON in the tank FTW

 

[Madmax199]

E85 is a fuel of the gods

Seems on average to release anything up to 20% more power than pump fuel. WMi doe without a doubt bring gains to the table but i don't think quite as much as the corn juice and plus no one wants to tune the unreliable injection system over here in case it fails. If its in your fuel tank at least you know the knock protection is always present and can utilise this

Higher RON in the tank FTW

Hey Stacey, I definitely agree, E85 is liquid gold and I swear by it! However, it's been done over and over again (especially in the DSM/EVO community that I came from), E85 and a good WMI system on pump petrol yields the same power. If anything the pump/WMI give slightly more power (more caloric burn in BTU) -- and E85 gives slightly better spool charateristics (more exhaust byproducts to spool the turbine). Both can allow to max out boost and reach MBT.

You are correct that WMI poses some risk factors when the tune relies on it. E85 is more of set-it and forget-it type of thing. I can however say that with a good system (good pump, reliable fittings and lines) and using modern failsafes, there is no reason to worry. Fluid flow monitering failsafe, with external inputs (could use timing correction or knock count) makes WMI bullet proof in case of a failure.

Finding a UK tuner to tune it for the masses is a different story. That's why I gave up with that cat and mouse game with 1.8t tuners and do it myself with the AEM infinity (BTW, that Emerald is looking good with the possibility to tune the haldex).

 

[StaceyS3]

Hey Stacey, I definitely agree, E85 is liquid gold and I swear by it! However, it's been done over and over again (especially in the DSM/EVO community that I came from), E85 and a good WMI system on pump petrol yields the same power. If anything the pump/WMI give slightly more power (more caloric burn in BTU) -- and E85 gives slightly better spool charateristics (more exhaust byproducts to spool the turbine). Both can allow to max out boost and reach MBT.

You are correct that WMI poses some risk factors when the tune relies on it. E85 is more of set-it and forget-it type of thing. I can however say that with a good system (good pump, reliable fittings and lines) and using modern failsafes, there is no reason to worry. Fluid flow monitering failsafe, with external inputs (could use timing correction or knock count) makes WMI bullet proof in case of a failure.

Finding a UK tuner to tune it for the masses is a different story. That's why I gave up with that cat and mouse game with 1.8t tuners and do it myself with the AEM infinity (BTW, that Emerald is looking good with the possibility to tune the haldex).

Couldn't agree more with the WMI tuning and this one of the main reasons went with standalone to gain freedom of being able to do what I want and adjust it if the situation does change. I had intended on using AEMs WMI failsafe but just been waiting on finances. Without a doubt going standalone management was one of the best moves I made.

As you well know I was all set and geared up for the AEM infinity but had the Emerald come up and couldn't refuse it. The haldex is a nice feature and once it progress's I will be selling my TMAP which will fund more toys

I do still without a doubt wish we had E85 on tap here though

 

[scotty_24]

Replacement relentless sold.
Chinafold still on way from China.
On the JNL racing list for them to port the chinafold, so il be posting it straight to them when it arrives.
Once it's back from JNL, the pro4 comes off !

 

[badger5]

Remember also its not just "porting" but "port Matching" so it lines up with the turbo.

 

[scotty_24]

Yep il be telling JNL I've got the hotside ported on my K418T.

46 mm you ported the hot side of the turbo to Bill?

And so I just re use the copper super gasket I bought off you that goes between turbo to chinafold ?

Craving driving the car. Knockhill trackday was soo good. I hate it when the damn things broken !

 

[scotty_24]

Forgot to mention thanks for your help with the bolt sizes @badger5

For anyone else reference fitting China fold to hybrid K04 you need
3x 65mm long M10 bolts pitch 1.5 with 8mm Allen key / 17mm hex head

 

[badger5]

Yep il be telling JNL I've got the hotside ported on my K418T.

46 mm you ported the hot side of the turbo to Bill?

And so I just re use the copper super gasket I bought off you that goes between turbo to chinafold ?

Craving driving the car. Knockhill trackday was soo good. I hate it when the damn things broken !

I dont use the copper things... I dont use any gasket on chinafolds.

Whether the copper thing lines up with the chinafold you will receive is unknown. I use a template to port to chinafolds, as it matches exactly the CNC shops machining and I can ensure turbo also lines up. Turbos vary quite significantly in the fixing holes to bore centre from what I've seen. And I 've seen plenty to port match I can tell you!

47mm is what I open chinafolds out to, turbo to match that.

 

[Madmax199]

Agree with Bill's statement above. The porting must be done efficiently. Opening of the collector bore and lining up that bore to the offset of the turbine entrance, knocking down the divider, porting the runner outlets (especially the shared one), cleaning and gasket-matching the runner's entrance. Some reference pics of when I did mine:

 

[badger5]

Forgot to mention thanks for your help with the bolt sizes @badger5

For anyone else reference fitting China fold to hybrid K04 you need
3x 65mm long M10 bolts pitch 1.5 with 8mm Allen key / 17mm hex head

and nordlocks

 

[scotty_24]

Ha ha I was just about to say and M10 nordlocks!

I've bought them too.

Ok so sack the gasket off and go chinafold and turbo face to face.

Thanks for the Info and help guys!

 

[scotty_24]

 

[scotty_24]

Manifolds released from Customs, its in the UK.

New pro4 sold and picked up this morning. Out of my life forever.
It will be a happy day when the cracked one is removed and chucked off the Tyne bridge or something.

 

[xDaNx]

Manifolds released from Customs, its in the UK.

New pro4 sold and picked up this morning. Out of my life forever.
It will be a happy day when the cracked one is removed and chucked off the Tyne bridge or something.

Stick it on Facebook, got £100 for mine

 

[scotty_24]

£100 cracked ?

 

[daz-20vt]

Scott it will sell easy. Lots of people weld now
And probably better job.
Though throwing itbin the river may be more pleasing

 

[xDaNx]

£100 cracked ?

Yep, as said above sold it to a kid that could weld, redone all the welds so they're not like cheese

 

[daz-20vt]

Well scott will take 90 for it if you fancy making an easy tenner dan

 

[scotty_24]

Chinafold is here. The box looks like its been kicked all the way from China, absolutley battered!

Here's some photos. There's no cracks, casting seems good and isn't porous. Checked the mounting faces with a calibrated straight edge and all is good.
However, the collector is horrendous and the exhaust ports look tiny

Now time for JNL racing to do their thing and open everything up and create a proper collector.

Courier collects it to go on the next step of its journey tomorrow.

 

[superkarl]

Have you offered up/given jnl your gasket?

As that's the only way of marking it up for alignment without having the hotside handy aswell.


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[scotty_24]

Good point, that's the only way to get it exact. I'l get the gasket sent with it too

 

[Madmax199]

I would suggest using your hotside as a template. As Bill can probably attest to you, there are casting inconsistencies with the turbine housings as well. The gaskets are standard, the turbines and manifold ... not so much. So having done this multiple times, you learn to NOT trust it.

In mine, I ported the turbine housing first -- then matched the manifold to that by using a corresponding gasket. Had to make my own gasket but a template can be made if running gasketless. (Later switched to stainless steel as a material for higher melting point than copper).

BTW, that's how much needed to come off with mine. As you can spot, the bore to bolt distance is not exactly centered.

How much to port to gasket mach the runner entrances

 

[scotty_24]

Thanks for all your help @Madmax199
Unfortunately removing my turbo isn't an option due to various reasons (time, mechanic availability, etc etc)

I fully understand that the turbo hot sides can vary wildly too and that the bolt holes on the housing vary from turbo to turbo slightly.
I'm just going to have to deal with a small lip if there is one.

Hopefully JNL who ar porting it know exactly what needs ported, they have been doing them to @badger5 spec I believe!

Gaskets being removed now and il chuck it in with the manifold so the porting is at least the same diameter as the gasket... if the turbo and manifold very slightly.. it is what it is but I'm happy it'll be close enough.



As for running a gasket, I think Il be running the new manifold gasketless first and go from there. Or would you recommend re using the copper gasket (cleaned and sanded down etc)
There aren't larger stainless ones available to m,y knowledge. only standard size oem turbo to manifold gaskets.

 

[superkarl]

I should've added, it will only work if your gasket is perfectly matched to your hotside, then it will all match up nicely when back from jnl


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[Madmax199]

Gotcha, you do what you gotta do!

As for the gasket vs gasketless debate, it's up to you. There are no SS oversized gasket available, so you have to make them. I have made a few with copper and I make them out SS now (not that I ever had an issue with the copper ones I made). Gasketless is fine too... as long as the surfaces are true and remains true during their life (not always the case). That's why I prefer to make and run with a gasket.

PS: A good trick with running gasketless is to coat both surfaces with some high temp bearing grease (very light coat). The severe temperature will burn the grease into carbon and provide a total heat-resistant seal.

 

[scotty_24]

Some boy, that sounds like a plan !
So long as nothing warps it should be good !

Aye your right Karl.
I suppose I'm not gonna be too far out if they don't match exactly ?

I'm fairly excited to get this thing back from JNL all done, it'll just be the chore of removing the pro4 then.

It's easier with the head off, but we're gonna give it a go with the head still on first.

 

[scotty_24]

The one that's coming off already has a new home, and it's not at the bottom of the River Tyne.
A friend of mine ( in fact he's the lad that does all the mechanics on my car) has just bought an Ibiza Cupra 1.8T in "Badgerwagen" yellow as a cheap track car!
It's getting treated to a K04 conversion using this manifold welded up to the max.
Get that on and all the other mods required, then another trip to Badger5

 

[scotty_24]

Ok soooooo

Things have escalated and I've bought a house (well its going through) so the S3 is on the back burner at the moment.

However, the manifold is on its way back from JNL Racing, I'l upload photos when it arrives but here's one from his page

 

[Prawn]

Nice Nice Nice.

I'll fit my engine, you get it bolted up and lets meet in the middle and do a trackday together

Congrats on the house mate! Expensive things, but worth it.

Got a garage?

 

[scotty_24]

100% Nick we can book the same track day and you can teach me how to go on!

Cheers mate, its not over yet its going through but all is looking good
Of course it has, that was one of the main stipulations of going for a house!

Its beyond me why estate agents dont give garage measurements. Who cares about how big the closet under the stairs is ! ha ha

 

[badger5]

I would suggest using your hotside as a template. As Bill can probably attest to you, there are casting inconsistencies with the turbine housings as well. The gaskets are standard, the turbines and manifold ... not so much. So having done this multiple times, you learn to NOT trust it.

In mine, I ported the turbine housing first -- then matched the manifold to that by using a corresponding gasket. Had to make my own gasket but a template can be made if running gasketless. (Later switched to stainless steel as a material for higher melting point than copper).


How much to port to gasket mach the runner entrances

33mm exhaust ports on smallport, 36mm exhaust ports on largeport heads (which are the wrong heads for k04 IMHO anyhow) vs 40-42mm Gasket match...

Whether gasket matching the manifold or to a head which is stock is questionable to me.

 

[badger5]

Thanks for all your help @Madmax199
Unfortunately removing my turbo isn't an option due to various reasons (time, mechanic availability, etc etc)

I fully understand that the turbo hot sides can vary wildly too and that the bolt holes on the housing vary from turbo to turbo slightly.
I'm just going to have to deal with a small lip if there is one.

Hopefully JNL who ar porting it know exactly what needs ported, they have been doing them to @badger5 spec I believe!

Gaskets being removed now and il chuck it in with the manifold so the porting is at least the same diameter as the gasket... if the turbo and manifold very slightly.. it is what it is but I'm happy it'll be close enough.



As for running a gasket, I think Il be running the new manifold gasketless first and go from there. Or would you recommend re using the copper gasket (cleaned and sanded down etc)
There aren't larger stainless ones available to m,y knowledge. only standard size oem turbo to manifold gaskets.

JNL without a template to match the turbo cannot be replicating what I do..
at least if you send the gasket (which will blow) a template of sorts will be there, and you can check your turbo matchs the 46mm of the copper gasket. (where I run 47mm and gasketless)

 

[scotty_24]

JNL without a template to match the turbo cannot be replicating what I do..
at least if you send the gasket (which will blow) a template of sorts will be there, and you can check your turbo matchs the 46mm of the copper gasket. (where I run 47mm and gasketless)

Yeah I understand this, I'm going to run gasketles if that's what you do and don't have any problems (as long as the faces are both flat)

 

[badger5]

(as long as the faces are both flat)

indeed

 

[scotty_24]

I did see this


Get the sand paper out Bill ha ha !

 

[scotty_24]

So I see on Facebook the engraving isn't anywhere near where the turbo actually bolts to, it's tactically placed
More manifold porn

 

[badger5]

still need to flat the mating face where marked dude.. Whats going on the divider section on the lower right picture on runner 1/2?

 

[scotty_24]

Yeah I will be making sure its perfectly flat in work with the straight edge.

Not sure Bill I will upload some more photos when it arrives