8V S3 Tuning Thread

[Dandanfings]

OMG !! no audio at work so couldn't listen to the video. What's it like to drive Dan ? Any issues getting the power down ?

Its not my car that got the turbo working, i was just there to watch the tuning and to see if we could figure out what the problem may be with mine.
Which we did so we should have mine running a similar setup with slightly less torque this week.

updated link:

 

[pepperisback]

With Stock dsg Hardware?


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[Rogier140]

With Stock dsg Hardware?


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This is a manual car ..... mine is dsg with 590nm and HGP DSG upgrade.
Hope to get more torque with new tune next month or so

 

[Fluffmeister AU]

Its not my car that got the turbo working, i was just there to watch the tuning and to see if we could figure out what the problem may be with mine.
Which we did so we should have mine running a similar setup with slightly less torque this week.

updated link:

What was wrong with the Peron Intercooler I'm about to install one

 

[Dandanfings]

What was wrong with the Peron Intercooler I'm about to install one

absolutely nothing with the stock turbo at stage 2.
Its lightweight, keeps cool and enables you to make some great numbers.
I need something bigger to cope with the increased airflow and high boost pressure of over 2 bar hence the change.

 

[MikeParkin]

What's your full spec now @Dandanfings ?

 

[Dandanfings]

What's your full spec now @Dandanfings ?

At the moment its still changing as we plug and play different bits to get the best results from the 470 and 525.
Just trying to find the perfect recipe for getting good power from the TTE turbos.

 

[G-S3]

Keep us all updated. Looking forward to hearing about the final product and what power to get.

 

[Dandanfings]

We are making great progress!
Before i show you my TTE470 result i want to show you a problem I have with my exhaust:


(ignore the TTRS exhaust below)

This was done by an exhaust shop here in London (I cut out the mid box and hated it so paid them to reattach it) and I am not too happy as its causing a massive bottleneck in my exhaust system, its my BCS 3" downpipe linked to a 2.5" stainless tube thats been flared to fit the stock 2.75" system leading to the stock resonator.
This causes almost no issue at stage 2 levels (hence me having no idea this was done) but now we are finding its costing anywhere from 10-20bhp all at the top end from 5000rpm to redline.

So to hit 480bhp (400whp) with this bunged up piece of crap is seriously impressive:



I would say that the TTE470 can push 500bhp with a proper exhaust system and around 2 bar of boost..... very impressive :thumbup:

I am now switching the turbo to the TTE525R and will be having an exhaust made for my car this Saturday, really rushed as next weekend there is GTI International and i start a new job on Monday so I wont have time to get anything done if this isnt finished on time

 

[Rob2k68]

We are making great progress!
Before i show you my TTE470 result i want to show you a problem I have with my exhaust:


(ignore the TTRS exhaust below)

This was done by an exhaust shop here in London (I cut out the mid box and hated it so paid them to reattach it) and I am not too happy as its causing a massive bottleneck in my exhaust system, its my BCS 3" downpipe linked to a 2.5" stainless tube thats been flared to fit the stock 2.75" system leading to the stock resonator.
This causes almost no issue at stage 2 levels (hence me having no idea this was done) but now we are finding its costing anywhere from 10-20bhp all at the top end from 5000rpm to redline.

So to hit 480bhp (400whp) with this bunged up piece of **** is seriously impressive:



I would say that the TTE470 can push 500bhp with a proper exhaust system and around 2 bar of boost..... very impressive :thumbup:

I am now switching the turbo to the TTE525R and will be having an exhaust made for my car this Saturday, really rushed as next weekend there is GTI International and i start a new job on Monday so I wont have time to get anything done if this isnt finished on time

Are you at the show both days Dan ?

 

[batch]

We are making great progress!
Before i show you my TTE470 result i want to show you a problem I have with my exhaust:


(ignore the TTRS exhaust below)

This was done by an exhaust shop here in London (I cut out the mid box and hated it so paid them to reattach it) and I am not too happy as its causing a massive bottleneck in my exhaust system, its my BCS 3" downpipe linked to a 2.5" stainless tube thats been flared to fit the stock 2.75" system leading to the stock resonator.
This causes almost no issue at stage 2 levels (hence me having no idea this was done) but now we are finding its costing anywhere from 10-20bhp all at the top end from 5000rpm to redline.

So to hit 480bhp (400whp) with this bunged up piece of **** is seriously impressive:



I would say that the TTE470 can push 500bhp with a proper exhaust system and around 2 bar of boost..... very impressive :thumbup:

I am now switching the turbo to the TTE525R and will be having an exhaust made for my car this Saturday, really rushed as next weekend there is GTI International and i start a new job on Monday so I wont have time to get anything done if this isnt finished on time

Loving watching this unfold @Dandanfings - your car is epic!
Just one question - what's a Nanometer?!

 

[pepperisback]

So for the TTE470 you only need a 3'' downpipe and everything else can be stock exhaust?


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[Dandanfings]

Loving watching this unfold @Dandanfings - your car is epic!
Just one question - what's a Nanometer?!

haha im such a nerd, i see NM and instantly read as nanometre but actually its newton meter!

 

[Dandanfings]

So for the TTE470 you only need a 3'' downpipe and everything else can be stock exhaust?
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You can do yes but in order to get the best out of it you need a full exhaust system.
Im losing 10-20bhp, but on the bright side you can still use a resonated and catted system to keep noise down.

 

[batch]

haha im such a nerd, i see NM and instantly read as nanometre but actually its newton meter!

I'm glad you took that in the spirit intended mate. Need to meet up soon.

 

[Fiddie]

We are making great progress!
Before i show you my TTE470 result i want to show you a problem I have with my exhaust:


(ignore the TTRS exhaust below)

This was done by an exhaust shop here in London (I cut out the mid box and hated it so paid them to reattach it) and I am not too happy as its causing a massive bottleneck in my exhaust system, its my BCS 3" downpipe linked to a 2.5" stainless tube thats been flared to fit the stock 2.75" system leading to the stock resonator.
This causes almost no issue at stage 2 levels (hence me having no idea this was done) but now we are finding its costing anywhere from 10-20bhp all at the top end from 5000rpm to redline.

So to hit 480bhp (400whp) with this bunged up piece of **** is seriously impressive:



I would say that the TTE470 can push 500bhp with a proper exhaust system and around 2 bar of boost..... very impressive :thumbup:

I am now switching the turbo to the TTE525R and will be having an exhaust made for my car this Saturday, really rushed as next weekend there is GTI International and i start a new job on Monday so I wont have time to get anything done if this isnt finished on time

Hi Dan,

Don't forget to show your new exhaust when is made in S3 Aftermarket exhaust compilation thread!!!!

 

[S3Alex]

We are making great progress!
Before i show you my TTE470 result i want to show you a problem I have with my exhaust:


(ignore the TTRS exhaust below)

This was done by an exhaust shop here in London (I cut out the mid box and hated it so paid them to reattach it) and I am not too happy as its causing a massive bottleneck in my exhaust system, its my BCS 3" downpipe linked to a 2.5" stainless tube thats been flared to fit the stock 2.75" system leading to the stock resonator.
This causes almost no issue at stage 2 levels (hence me having no idea this was done) but now we are finding its costing anywhere from 10-20bhp all at the top end from 5000rpm to redline.

So to hit 480bhp (400whp) with this bunged up piece of **** is seriously impressive:



I would say that the TTE470 can push 500bhp with a proper exhaust system and around 2 bar of boost..... very impressive :thumbup:

I am now switching the turbo to the TTE525R and will be having an exhaust made for my car this Saturday, really rushed as next weekend there is GTI International and i start a new job on Monday so I wont have time to get anything done if this isnt finished on time

Nice restrictor you've got going there Dan!

Easy to see why you're losing some power and likely a bit of torque as well.

Good luck getting it all done on time,and with the new job.

 

[Dandanfings]

Exhaust place had to order parts in to fit so i had them fix/improve the awful bodge job that was done before!

A nice smooth 3'' pipe straight into the resonator, I will be back to have the whole lot replaced when I have some free time.

Also you may want to see this:

 

[batch]

Exhaust place had to order parts in to fit so i had them fix/improve the awful bodge job that was done before!
View attachment 95997

A nice smooth 3'' pipe straight into the resonator, I will be back to have the whole lot replaced when I have some free time.

Also you may want to see this:

Love it. I need to go co-pilot!

 

[Dandanfings]

Love it. I need to go co-pilot!

My passenger seat has only 6 out of 8 bolts holding it.... so not a good idea until i get that fixed

 

[TTE Si]

Rogier140 set a new record time for s3 8v. Possibly a S3 8v world record

7.94 sec 100-200 vbox verified and corrected.

This is faster then our golf r tte525r

His S3 8v ,,TTE525r saloon is without weight saving and even had his golf clubs in the boot !!

 

[TTE Si]

The vbox graph of Rogier's test run.

 

[pepperisback]

Any news regarding tuning on stock Turbo and how much hp and torque is possible?


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[TTE Si]

New S3 saloon manual record 100-200kmh time 8.29 Sec (corrected and verified)

Dave Hendersons S3 TTE525r MRC

 

[S3 Turbo]

Question:

After reading about Dan selling his car and mentioning the need of forged pistons to go further...

@TTE Si
How much hp, nm would you say is safe in the long term with tte470 and tte525 respectively without upgrading any engine internals?

 

[TTE Si]

Question:

After reading about Dan selling his car and mentioning the need of forged pistons to go further...

@TTE Si
How much hp, nm would you say is safe in the long term with tte470 and tte525 respectively without upgrading any engine internals?

Its never so clear cut.. I think we have sold the most hybrids for this platform world over as was the first maybe some years ago to produce upgrade turbos and really many customers over 400 now without issue.

Milltek Racingline G7R TTE470 few weeks ago the motor failed at vag tuner Donington event on track due to valve guide issue.. (450-460ps)

Our own G7R car also failed due to denso sparkplug issue. Tune related maybe, maybe manufacture defect.. Thing is tuning or tracking a car does have risks.

We also had our own G7R motor fail after a only a few days on a generic flash Stg2 stock turbo tune from one of the respected names.

 

[Dandanfings]

Question:

After reading about Dan selling his car and mentioning the need of forged pistons to go further...

@TTE Si
How much hp, nm would you say is safe in the long term with tte470 and tte525 respectively without upgrading any engine internals?

It's looking like tune or manufacturer defect that's causing some piston failures.
It definitely is not power level related as some stage 1 cars have also had the same thing happen.

Not trying to scare people, obviously I'm not concerned since I bought another car with effectively the same engine!

 

[S3Alex]

It's looking like tune or manufacturer defect that's causing some piston failures.
It definitely is not power level related as some stage 1 cars have also had the same thing happen.

Not trying to scare people, obviously I'm not concerned since I bought another car with effectively the same engine!

I agree.

This is like what the 8P world went through at similar sort of power/torque level.

There were a few people suffering things like holed pistons,and burnt plugs....in general,not obviously related,expect perhaps by high cylinder temps,and certainly in one case,pushing the car hard,on stock internals,high boost(for the turbo in question),over a good run.

Obviously,with any new engine,someone has to be the first to find the limits,but with so many different software and hardware setups,it tends to cloud what the root problem is.

 

[MikeParkin]

So what can be done to prevent any of these issues or at least try? @TTE Si

 

[Dandanfings]

I agree.

This is like what the 8P world went through at similar sort of power/torque level.

There were a few people suffering things like holed pistons,and burnt plugs....in general,not obviously related,expect perhaps by high cylinder temps,and certainly in one case,pushing the car hard,on stock internals,high boost(for the turbo in question),over a good run.

Obviously,with any new engine,someone has to be the first to find the limits,but with so many different software and hardware setups,it tends to cloud what the root problem is.

You mention high cylinder temps and its something that i suspect may be the actual cause of the cracking.
But its still early days and perhaps if it is a issue with the pistons from a manufacturer level then perhaps later versions of this engine will be fixed much like the turbos were.

 

[S3Alex]

You mention high cylinder temps and its something that i suspect may be the actual cause of the cracking.
But its still early days and perhaps if it is a issue with the pistons from a manufacturer level then perhaps later versions of this engine will be fixed much like the turbos were.

I was thinking more of running a turbo pretty hard,i.e. towards the edge of its map,and also maybe not running WMI and on the software side,pushing the timing.

All of those are pretty old tricks,and at least one of the software companies was fond of pushing the timing in pursuit of figures.

I'd be surprised to see VAG uprate the pistons if there isn't an issue at stock or mildly uprated levels.

The thing is,as far as I know,no-one has actually looked at EGTs,and I don't recall seeing any pictures of the offending pistons or plugs.....not many tuners like putting those out there for some reason!

 

[xpoweruk]

Audi engineers boast that the wall thickness is as little as 3 mm (0.1 inch), and they point out that a competitor’s minimum iron-block wall thickness is nearly double that figure

Could the above lead to issues when pushing the boundaries?

 

[S3Alex]

Could the above lead to issues when pushing the boundaries?

Of course.

That's going to depend on wall stiffness etc etc,but there is obviously going to be a point at which that thickness becomes an issue.

Those of us old enough to remember will know that when Ford introduced the Cosworth 2L engine,as people(myself included) increased boost on the original blocks,there were numerous cases of the top of the block cracking around the stud bolts,and the thicker,heavier RS500 and Escort blocks sorted that problem.

The TFSi block is certainly good for 600-700bhp,and appears not to flex significantly under 550+lb torque loads,but as above,the problem with a new engine is finding those limits again.

 

[TTE Si]

I was thinking more of running a turbo pretty hard,i.e. towards the edge of its map,and also maybe not running WMI and on the software side,pushing the timing.

All of those are pretty old tricks,and at least one of the software companies was fond of pushing the timing in pursuit of figures.

I'd be surprised to see VAG uprate the pistons if there isn't an issue at stock or mildly uprated levels.

The thing is,as far as I know,no-one has actually looked at EGTs,and I don't recall seeing any pictures of the offending pistons or plugs.....not many tuners like putting those out there for some reason!

We have monitored EGT and back pressure ratio. And all fine on our upgrades at boost levels many using at.

 

[S3Alex]

We have monitored EGT and back pressure ratio. And all fine on our upgrades at boost levels many using at.

You've done all of the right things,and the only failures running your gear has been down to plugs.

I'm getting at the things that people do to extract a set of figures,rather than an engine that runs well,with good torque and power.

TTE are the only hybrids I'd recommend.....not that your products need my recommendation,as they speak for themselves.

 

[TTE Si]

I really think the hardware or power potential on the platform has come fast and the tuners are and have been playing catch up and also engine builders. I can't share details but I'm working with NG MOTORSPORT maybe the best VAG head specialist or 1 off in the world on a head for a project and really I personally know more lol as they even said ... And I'm no head specialist but been playing around and taking notes

 

[S3Alex]

I really think the hardware or power potential on the platform has come fast and the tuners are and have been playing catch up and also engine builders. I can't share details but I'm working with NG MOTORSPORT maybe the best VAG head specialist or 1 off in the world on a head for a project and really I personally know more lol as they even said ... And I'm no head specialist but been playing around and taking notes

Agreed.....I think the basis from the TFSi has helped to kickstart the process,as some of the technology is common to both,and the parts manufacturers get up to speed very quickly.

I know I've said it before,but you need to get one of your tuners running a Syvecs ECU when they become available.

 

[S3 Turbo]

Very interesting reading here for a relative beginner!

Do I understand somewhat correctly that rather than focusing on hp and torque, the important things for engine and turbo longevity, are to keep following in check when doing custom tune, regardless of turbo??:

Boost / turbo rpm
Timing (not too aggressive)
Exhaust gas temp
Back pressure

 

[S3Alex]

All of these factors interact.

For instance by pushing the timing you may achieve better torque figures but at the expense of risking det.

Raising the boost on a small turbo and pushing it to its limits raises EGTs but may gain a bit of power.

High EGTs can run the risks of piston and valve damage.
And so on .....

By using a larger turbo,run within its limits you can achieve better airflow at lower boost levels and with lower EGTs.
My current setup runs more power and torque at lower boost than the previous smaller turbo could.

The trick is achieving a good balance of the factors you've listed and most of all aiming for good midrange torque.

Put crudely BHP = top speed
And torque = acceleration.

 

[S3 Turbo]

Thanks for excellent clarification!