S3 - Understeering in wet

[CraigI]

It's not a great car to drive spiritedly. Lacking feedback and involvement, with a poor turn in.
This is the same as every Haldex car (including the RS3 which has similar handling defficiencies), although VW seem to have done better than Audi with their standard damping set up to offset that.

It is an all round nice family package with enough doors, that's well built, nice to look at with good straight line speed.
That's why I'm getting another one, certainly not for the way it goes round a corner.
Mine is cheap, no options saloon, great deal. I'm hoping back to basics improves the experience, but if not then I've got a point and squirt car that's capable with realistic and realigned expectations compared to previously.

 

[Flatoot]

And who buys a base model S3, without any meaningful options?

Unless of course, you want an S3 just for the sake of saying that you own/drive and S3.

Actually, a Fiesta ST out-performs a S3 in the steering and handling stakes. It's also much more fun to drive.

I used the word "ridiculous" about understeer, and in the context that a car costing £35k, and promoted as a Audi "S" car, can be put to shame in terms of lateral grip, by much so-called "lesser" cars.

Let's revisit where I first used the word "ridiculous" in this thread:
"I appreciate that production cars have a degree of understeer dialled in for safety, but it's ridiculous on the S3. It makes for a one-dimensional drive, all you end up doing is managing understeer and waiting for when you can nail it out of the corner."

You are incorrectly trying to hang a single word used in a specific context, on something more. A shame you can't see past that.

My one only had a select few options... S-Tronic being the main one and parking sensors, roof rails and sat nav... nothing to really make the performance improve (other than 0-60). That is still miles cheaper than a similarly specced BMW or Merc. If you want to chuck on all the extra gubbins, then fine. But try not to suggest it's a £40k when OTR price is nowhere near that. If I was going to spend £40k, I'd have waited to get my hands on an RS3.

As for the word - ridiculous - well, you did in fact start by saying it was ridiculous in the wet, but it's now descended into the only good thing about it is the engine and interior. Quite obviously you dinnae like the beastie. Do you still own one and if so, why?

 

[Blackwhite]

 

[Flatoot]

I would never presume to suggest that

I too, like the OP, tend to have to tip-toe around in the wet, braking much earlier, and taking corners much more gingerly, than I would in other cars.

Good. The road is not a race track after all, even though most (if not all) would admit to treating it as such from time to time. However, in the wet, we should all be screwing the nut and driving according to the conditions. There is no fire to put out after all.... keep it on the black stuff and save your heroics til its dry.

 

[Flatoot]

It's not a great car to drive spiritedly. Lacking feedback and involvement, with a poor turn in.
This is the same as every Haldex car (including the RS3 which has similar handling defficiencies), although VW seem to have done better than Audi with their standard damping set up to offset that.

It is an all round nice family package with enough doors, that's well built, nice to look at with good straight line speed.
That's why I'm getting another one, certainly not for the way it goes round a corner.
Mine is cheap, no options saloon, great deal. I'm hoping back to basics improves the experience, but if not then I've got a point and squirt car that's capable with realistic and realigned expectations compared to previously.

Hmmm, me thinks the lady doth protest too much. Honest to god, I've owned more cars over the years than had hot dinners (why I'm always so skint!) and also spent a good number of years racing Karts, so would say, on a scale of 1-10 of driving abililty, I'd be there or there abouts at the top end of that scale. And although the S3 is not as sharp or perhaps gives enough feedback through the wheel as other cars..... it did enough to allow me to scorch over the back roads in such a rapid rate of knots, that I was sold on it within an hour. Could it be improved? Of course. Do I need this improvement to bring a smile a mile wide to my face? Hell no. That engine is a thing of beauty and the rasp from the S-Tronic box on change up, is a lovely little bonus.

But come one now - seriously. Poor turn in? Have you any idea what a real car with poor turn in is like to drive? The S3 is certainly not poor.... in ANY task. Could it be improved in some areas? I'm sure it could. But we are talking about an S3 here... not an R8. Get real folk.

 

[CraigI]

Hmmm, me thinks the lady doth protest too much. Honest to god, I've owned more cars over the years than had hot dinners (why I'm always so skint!) and also spent a good number of years racing Karts, so would say, on a scale of 1-10 of driving abililty, I'd be there or there abouts at the top end of that scale. And although the S3 is not as sharp or perhaps gives enough feedback through the wheel as other cars..... it did enough to allow me to scorch over the back roads in such a rapid rate of knots, that I was sold on it within an hour. Could it be improved? Of course. Do I need this improvement to bring a smile a mile wide to my face? Hell no. That engine is a thing of beauty and the rasp from the S-Tronic box on change up, is a lovely little bonus.

But come one now - seriously. Poor turn in? Have you any idea what a real car with poor turn in is like to drive? The S3 is certainly not poor.... in ANY task. Could it be improved in some areas? I'm sure it could. But we are talking about an S3 here... not an R8. Get real folk.

ha ha, I protest too much, have a look at your tirade and ramblings against what is merely opinion.

Just be happy that you are happy and care not where others have higher expectations, or will openly point out the weak points of the car they own.
You are right though, this is an A3 with a big powerful engine, not a sports car. If you expect no more than that you'll likely be happy.
I wasn't happy with my first, but am coming into my second with minimal (and hugely reduced) expectation and a reduced requirement for excitement.
I am looking forward to driving a manual again, been too long and I do, after being initially unimpressed, really like the look at the saloon, so there are some plus points.

I've only driven the V8 R8 and was far from impressed by that.

 

[Flatoot]

ha ha, I protest too much, have a look at your tirade and ramblings against what is merely opinion.

Just be happy that you are happy and care not where others have higher expectations, or will openly point out the weak points of the car they own.
You are right though, this is an A3 with a big powerful engine, not a sports car. If you expect no more than that you'll likely be happy.
I wasn't happy with my first, but am coming into my second with minimal (and hugely reduced) expectation and a reduced requirement for excitement.
I am looking forward to driving a manual again, been too long and I do, after being initially unimpressed, really like the look at the saloon, so there are some plus points.

I've only driven the V8 R8 and was far from impressed by that.

I'm I protesting? No. I'm highlighting the ludicrously in some posts where people are wanting F1 handling performance from what is a fancy small hatchback car for relative cheap money.

I've driven the V10 on a Silverstone experience day. Of all the cars they let us loose on, the R8 was my favourite by far.

 

[CraigI]

I'm I protesting? No. I'm highlighting the ludicrously in some posts where people are wanting F1 handling performance from what is a fancy small hatchback car for relative cheap money.

I've driven the V10 on a Silverstone experience day. Of all the cars they let us loose on, the R8 was my favourite by far.

I had higher expectations first time round and was very much let down.
But a change in my driving requirements, and a great deal will make the inadequacies more palatable this time round.

The RS6 is the best car Audi make at the moment by the way.

 

[Simon L]

Holy moses, if this thread isn't 3 pages of complete verbal diarrhea I don't know what is!

The S3 handles fine in the wet. If your front ends, back ends, or any other ends are sliding about your driving too fast. It's that simple

 

[4K]

ha ha, I protest too much, have a look at your tirade and ramblings against what is merely opinion.

Just be happy that you are happy and care not where others have higher expectations, or will openly point out the weak points of the car they own.
You are right though, this is an A3 with a big powerful engine, not a sports car. If you expect no more than that you'll likely be happy.
I wasn't happy with my first, but am coming into my second with minimal (and hugely reduced) expectation and a reduced requirement for excitement.
I am looking forward to driving a manual again, been too long and I do, after being initially unimpressed, really like the look at the saloon, so there are some plus points.

I've only driven the V8 R8 and was far from impressed by that.

It didn't sound like he was rambling at all tbh, rather just providing a well rounded counter argument to, from what I've seen, a hell of a lot of whinging and moaning about what is a pretty good all rounded hot hatch, unlike some of the other competitors that are out on the market.

It sounds like from your comments on these cars, you'd be better off in a Subaru Impreza.

 

[4K]

And who buys a base model S3, without any meaningful options?

Unless of course, you want an S3 just for the sake of saying that you own/drive and S3.

Actually, a Fiesta ST out-performs a S3 in the steering and handling stakes. It's also much more fun to drive.

I used the word "ridiculous" about understeer, and in the context that a car costing £35k, and promoted as a Audi "S" car, can be put to shame in terms of lateral grip, by much so-called "lesser" cars.

Let's revisit where I first used the word "ridiculous" in this thread:
"I appreciate that production cars have a degree of understeer dialled in for safety, but it's ridiculous on the S3. It makes for a one-dimensional drive, all you end up doing is managing understeer and waiting for when you can nail it out of the corner."

You are incorrectly trying to hang a single word used in a specific context, on something more. A shame you can't see past that.

Can't be bothered to read this whole whinging thread (not saying it was all you) but just thought I'd mention the new BMW M135i is exactly the same with tons of lacklustre steering and poor feedback. This is due to the variable-ratio setup again. So in conclusion, these problems in hot hatches aren't isolated to Audi, and its main rival suffers from it too, so no car is perfect, and I'd consider the S3 a step above the M135i and A45 AMG in terms of quality, looks, residuals etc etc.

 

[veeeight]

As for the word - ridiculous - well, you did in fact start by saying it was ridiculous in the wet, but it's now descended into the only good thing about it is the engine and interior.

Once again, you are desperately trying to cling on to a work I used "ridiculous" in the context of the under steering nature of the S3 in the wet. Yes, it is ridiculous, as it understeers way earlier than many other cars on the market, and considering it's supposed to have more dynamic handling than your average family hatch, this is both ridiculous and disappointing for a £35 Audi hyper hatch. Other comparable VW products do not do this.

Good. The road is not a race track after all, even though most (if not all) would admit to treating it as such from time to time. However, in the wet, we should all be screwing the nut and driving according to the conditions. There is no fire to put out after all.... keep it on the black stuff and save your heroics til its dry.

Again, you completely ignore and miss the point that in this car, you have to drive slower, brake earlier, and put up with lower grip levels than compared with other cars, in similar conditions. The whole premise of this thread is about the relative levels of grip offered by a S3, compared to other cars. Clearly, in your rush to defence this has passed you by.


It's lovely and sweet that you were taken by the S3 after a one hour drive, and if you want to buy one, then please be my guest.

Some people even like and love their S3's

But you have been spouting some utter drivel in defence of your purchase, along with a huge lump of incorrect assumptions and misinformation. Shock (pun intended) - there are other people who do not think it's the best handling car out there, or that it's the best drive out there, and feel it is compromised in many areas. Poor turn in, wobbly suspension, wooden steering are definitely characteristics of the S3, compared to many other cars. Great dynamics, it does not have. Disappointing.


So. After the total sum of one hour/one day in the S3, you think everyone else is driving it wrong, don't know what they are talking about, aren't suited to being an Audi Customer (whatever that means), and you clearly and obviously know better and much more about this car than owners who have lived with it over 10,000's of miles.


Brilliant. You really couldn't make this stuff up

 

[CraigI]

It didn't sound like he was rambling at all tbh, rather just providing a well rounded counter argument to, from what I've seen, a hell of a lot of whinging and moaning about what is a pretty good all rounded hot hatch, unlike some of the other competitors that are out on the market.

It sounds like from your comments on these cars, you'd be better off in a Subaru Impreza.

Driving wise, a Subaru possibly would be better, but the S3 is better in every other area.
It's the other areas, not the handling, that I am getting the S3 for.
It's a compromised package. When I bought my first one I bought wrongly as I wanted something the S3 couldn't give me, now the compromise is perfect.........hopefully.

 

[Schuey]

I'm just going to buy myself a go kart, you can adjust its handling in the wet and compensate for under/oversteer with no real drama....... Not bad......

Oh and you can put the shopping, kids and the dog in the boot

So, this is what I have chosen.... It may not have the S3 interior quality, but it handles like one

 

[mfl]

no this the one you want ...

 

[Flatoot]

Once again, you are desperately trying to cling on to a work I used "ridiculous" in the context of the under steering nature of the S3 in the wet. Yes, it is ridiculous, as it understeers way earlier than many other cars on the market, and considering it's supposed to have more dynamic handling than your average family hatch, this is both ridiculous and disappointing for a £35 Audi hyper hatch. Other comparable VW products do not do this.

Again, you completely ignore and miss the point that in this car, you have to drive slower, brake earlier, and put up with lower grip levels than compared with other cars, in similar conditions. The whole premise of this thread is about the relative levels of grip offered by a S3, compared to other cars. Clearly, in your rush to defence this has passed you by.


It's lovely and sweet that you were taken by the S3 after a one hour drive, and if you want to buy one, then please be my guest.

Some people even like and love their S3's

But you have been spouting some utter drivel in defence of your purchase, along with a huge lump of incorrect assumptions and misinformation. Shock (pun intended) - there are other people who do not think it's the best handling car out there, or that it's the best drive out there, and feel it is compromised in many areas. Poor turn in, wobbly suspension, wooden steering are definitely characteristics of the S3, compared to many other cars. Great dynamics, it does not have. Disappointing.

So. After the total sum of one hour/one day in the S3, you think everyone else is driving it wrong, don't know what they are talking about, aren't suited to being an Audi Customer (whatever that means), and you clearly and obviously know better and much more about this car than owners who have lived with it over 10,000's of miles.

Brilliant. You really couldn't make this stuff up

I'm not even going to bother responding to the points above. You don't rate it. Fair enough - you're entitled to your opinion. Just don't ram things down folks throats like it handles like a bag o'sh*te when it doesn't.

Either you're driving it poorly, you have the wrong tyres for wet, or there's something wrong with it. Either way, if I were you, I'd sell up pronto as it's obviously having a detrimental effect on your health and well-being.

 

[msdmjb]

Here we go again........
A decent driver should adjust their style to a car but you shouldn't need to that much on the road, it is a good 7 (wet) and 8 (dry) out of 10 for road driving. Could it have been better most definitely yes, should it have been for the average driver with 300bhp not so sure. Audi clearly felt dialling in a bit of understeer and lack of bite would keep it on the black stuff.........

The S3 is extremely swift and stable for most people most of the time, if you like REALLY pushing a car and playing around with grip then it is not for you however the road wouldn't normally be the best place to do it.

Let's not kid ourselves, Audi rarely make the ultimate handling car as nearly all are compromised from the start ie. the S3 and RS3 are still A3s with a bit more welly.

And yes I know my way around a lot of cars and there are ultimately better but for just doing 75miles home from an airport at 1am very quickly and safely in rural Europe there isn't much better for the price IMO.

 

[CraigI]

I'm not even going to bother responding to the points above. You don't rate it. Fair enough - you're entitled to your opinion. Just don't ram things down folks throats like it handles like a bag o'sh*te when it doesn't.

Either you're driving it poorly, you have the wrong tyres for wet, or there's something wrong with it. Either way, if I were you, I'd sell up pronto as it's obviously having a detrimental effect on your health and well-being.

Have you got a S3?
I thought you said earlier in the week that you are basing your opinion on the demo you had for 24 hours.

 

[CraigI]

I love this thread.
Everyone in it knows their way around loads of cars and that makes them qualified to comment on driving properly.
Anyone is qualified, even the 14 year old having a wind up - this is the Internet.

 

[msdmjb]

And some people even made a few quid doing it

 

[veeeight]

Have you got a S3?
I thought you said earlier in the week that you are basing your opinion on the demo you had for 24 hours.

He doesn't need a S3, because he knows better after one hour/one day of driving one, and

"You're driving it wrong"
and
"You're not a target Audi driver" (whatever that means)

Seems to cover all the bases and excuses as to why the car isn't as it should be

Ahhhh, Internet forums

 

[4K]

Just chill.

 

[jasonc]

I thought front wheel drive cars always understeered - is this the kind of wet handling everyone is looking for:



I'm sure he'd claim that was deliberate but I've seen a couple of cars in the ditch next to this roundabout and always been curious as to how it happens...

 

[veeeight]

and always been curious as to how it happens...

Dead easy. An appropriately timed sharp lift off with some steering angle, stiffer ARBs on the rear than fronts.

Worn tyres on the rears relative to the fronts also help. Which is why you should always fit the newer (or grippier) tyres to the rears.

I do this regularly with my S3 in the dry!

 

[Blackwhite]

Dead easy. An appropriately timed sharp lift off with some steering angle, stiffer ARBs on the rear than fronts.

Worn tyres on the rears relative to the fronts also help. Which is why you should always fit the newer (or grippier) tyres to the rears.

I do this regularly with my S3 in the dry!

I am trying to picture you in the snow!

 

[veeeight]

I am trying to picture you in the snow!

I did post a pic of my doughnuts (donuts) on here last winter

You've just reminded me of another thing. The new Focus RS will have a proper handbrake, instead of the EPB that the S3 has!! Can't wait to test that car out! More fun to be had!
http://www.automobilemag.com/featur...e-ford-focus-rs-will-beat-wrx-sti-and-golf-r/

 

[Blackwhite]

I did post a pic of my doughnuts (donuts) on here last winter

You've just reminded me of another thing. The new Focus RS will have a proper handbrake, instead of the EPB that the S3 has!! Can't wait to test that car out! More fun to be had!
http://www.automobilemag.com/featur...e-ford-focus-rs-will-beat-wrx-sti-and-golf-r/

Found it! Now I remember.

 

[Flatoot]

Have you got a S3?
I thought you said earlier in the week that you are basing your opinion on the demo you had for 24 hours.

Awaiting delivery.

What's your point caller?

 

[Flatoot]

Dead easy. An appropriately timed sharp lift off with some steering angle, stiffer ARBs on the rear than fronts.

Worn tyres on the rears relative to the fronts also help. Which is why you should always fit the newer (or grippier) tyres to the rears.

I do this regularly with my S3 in the dry!

You've altered your S3 with stiffer ARB on rear?

As for fitting grippier tyres on the rear.... well, I have had this sort of talk from garages (Costco in particular) who refuse to fit new tyres on the front. Maybe your own personal preference, but I would never fit new tyres on the rear of my car. Better braking performance/stopping distance and movement of surface water is preferential to me potentially losing the back end.

But feel free to tell me you know better, as I'm sure you're about to do

 

[CraigI]

Awaiting delivery.

What's your point caller?

Ha ha ha.
All of this experience from a few hours test drive.
Glad I spotted that, puts all of your comments into perspective and likely into the "future purchase "must defend vigorously"" category.
Stop caring what others say, if you did you wouldn't ever have bought a S3. Most reviews echo some of the comments above from V8.

Some of us have owned the car for over a year, some are moving onto their second (me).
It's not a bad car, but it doesn't drive as well in ownership as you percieved it to in your few hours. It quickly becomes numb and the boundaries can very easily be found without breaking any laws on the road.

I'm sure you'll come back here after a few days of ownership to say everything you have said above is right, but I think you just have a lesser expectation is all.
Nothing wrong with that - I'm happy with the compromise on the handling too second time round.

 

[veeeight]

You've altered your S3 with stiffer ARB on rear?

No, the S3 comes as standard with a stiffer ARB on the rear.

I thought you would have realised this after your one hour/one day drive and years of Motorsport involvement?

 

[veeeight]

but I would never fit new tyres on the rear of my car.
But feel free to tell me you know better, as I'm sure you're about to do

No need to thank me
http://www.michelincertifiedcentre.co.uk/tyresafety/new-to-the-rear.aspx
http://www.goodyear.com/email/faq/care.html#q9
http://www.tyresafe.org/media-centre/latest-news/69-motorists-get-their-tyres-“back-to-front”

 

[Blackwhite]

No need to thank me
http://www.michelincertifiedcentre.co.uk/tyresafety/new-to-the-rear.aspx

Great info! Michelin is my favorite tire. Had them on past cars and were
excellent.

 

[Flatoot]

Ha ha ha.
All of this experience from a few hours test drive.
Glad I spotted that, puts all of your comments into perspective and likely into the "future purchase "must defend vigorously"" category.
Stop caring what others say, if you did you wouldn't ever have bought a S3. Most reviews echo some of the comments above from V8.

Some of us have owned the car for over a year, some are moving onto their second (me).
It's not a bad car, but it doesn't drive as well in ownership as you percieved it to in your few hours. It quickly becomes numb and the boundaries can very easily be found without breaking any laws on the road.

I'm sure you'll come back here after a few days of ownership to say everything you have said above is right, but I think you just have a lesser expectation is all.
Nothing wrong with that - I'm happy with the compromise on the handling too second time round.

Mate - it's a frickin hatchback - an A3 on steroids. It's not the Space Shuttle you're learning to take for a spin. You get in, turn the keys and away you go. This is what I did. Took it on a standard commute to test the mpg, took it on a drive with the kids in the back to judge the space and then had about 3 or 4 hour long drives, one of which I took it to within an inch of it's life on a cracking road that goes from Ballater to Corgarf in Aberdeenshire. Pushing it the way I did (haven't driven that 'flat oot' for quite some time), I could confidently say that the handling was more than acceptable.
I've had nearly 3 decades of driving through the Scottish winters, and used to live and work in the ski industry, so driving on slippery roads is something that I've became used to. So understeer is 2nd nature to me. I never experienced ONE HINT of understeer during those tests of the demo. I've also owned countless superbikes and this ultimately, hones your riding skills and levels of 'road perception' and limits to which you can extend to (you don't get too many second chances on a bike).

As for my 'lower expectations'.... not sure where you're getting that from. I have quite high expectations in many things in life and certainly wouldn't have made the move from family estate to hothatch, if I didn't think I was gonna get the smiles per gallon from the S3.

All said and done, I could confidently predict I could muscle an S3 round the roads, as fast, if not faster, than most other cars in a similar price range. You can even have the Stig as you're driver (haha).

Maybe it takes some of you a year to suss out the frailties of the S3, or perhaps, as I would rather think, some of you have just got a bit bored of owning it and have moved on to slagging it off. I'm kinda like that with my current Audi... it was great when I bought it but grown a bit bored of it now..... it's served it's purpose.

Anyways... Knockhill track day... bring your A-Game and the best car your £32k can throw at it. Who's up for it? I'll bring the stop watch

 

[Flatoot]

No, the S3 comes as standard with a stiffer ARB on the rear.

I thought you would have realised this after your one hour/one day drive and years of Motorsport involvement?

Nope, "does it have stiffer ARB's" wasn't high on my list of questions when I took it back to the dealer after the 24hr test. I was more interested in sorting out the best deal possible to buy one

 

[Flatoot]

No need to thank me
http://www.michelincertifiedcentre.co.uk/tyresafety/new-to-the-rear.aspx
http://www.goodyear.com/email/faq/care.html#q9
http://www.tyresafe.org/media-centre/latest-news/69-motorists-get-their-tyres-“back-to-front”

Not even gonna bother reading those links... I knows what I know. These manufactures always err on the side of caution and seems you've bought into their marketing regarding 'oversteering and heading down a bank sideways'.
I've seen enough cars understeer off the road in winter or in the wet, to know where I prefer my grip thanks all the same.

 

[veeeight]

Nope, "does it have stiffer ARB's" wasn't high on my list of questions when I took it back to the dealer after the 24hr test. I was more interested in sorting out the best deal possible to buy one

Well, with your seemingly impressive credentials, one would have thought that you would immediately have realised this when testing out the handling of the car on the test drive, taking it to "within an inch of its life" ..........

Or perhaps not.

 

[CraigI]

Mate - it's a frickin hatchback - an A3 on steroids. It's not the Space Shuttle you're learning to take for a spin. You get in, turn the keys and away you go. This is what I did. Took it on a standard commute to test the mpg, took it on a drive with the kids in the back to judge the space and then had about 3 or 4 hour long drives, one of which I took it to within an inch of it's life on a cracking road that goes from Ballater to Corgarf in Aberdeenshire. Pushing it the way I did (haven't driven that 'flat oot' for quite some time), I could confidently say that the handling was more than acceptable.
I've had nearly 3 decades of driving through the Scottish winters, and used to live and work in the ski industry, so driving on slippery roads is something that I've became used to. So understeer is 2nd nature to me. I never experienced ONE HINT of understeer during those tests of the demo. I've also owned countless superbikes and this ultimately, hones your riding skills and levels of 'road perception' and limits to which you can extend to (you don't get too many second chances on a bike).

As for my 'lower expectations'.... not sure where you're getting that from. I have quite high expectations in many things in life and certainly wouldn't have made the move from family estate to hothatch, if I didn't think I was gonna get the smiles per gallon from the S3.

All said and done, I could confidently predict I could muscle an S3 round the roads, as fast, if not faster, than most other cars in a similar price range. You can even have the Stig as you're driver (haha).

Maybe it takes some of you a year to suss out the frailties of the S3, or perhaps, as I would rather think, some of you have just got a bit bored of owning it and have moved on to slagging it off. I'm kinda like that with my current Audi... it was great when I bought it but grown a bit bored of it now..... it's served it's purpose.

Anyways... Knockhill track day... bring your A-Game and the best car your £32k can throw at it. Who's up for it? I'll bring the stop watch

There was a previous poster on here who lived in your neck of the woods and enjoyed the odd skiing trip that posted in a similar vane.

Your opinion is that the car is perfect for you, its a good place to get to.
Maybe when you actually own it that will change, maybe it won't.

I'm with V8 on this one though, through 10 months and 7,500 miles of ownership of my first my feelings on the handling echo his.
Had your opinion been supported by more than a test drive (albeit a great sounding test drive), then it would have more credence.

I'll politely decline your track offer, against someone that has been through Scottish winters and perfected their skills on super bikes I've no chance!

 

[Flatoot]

Well, with your seemingly impressive credentials, one would have thought that you would immediately have realised this when testing out the handling of the car on the test drive ..........

Or perhaps not.

Nothing seemingly about my credentials at all mate. I don't like to make out like I'm a driving god, but I know what my potential was/is. That's why I know a good car when I see one.
I learned my trade as a 17yr old in a 1.6l Sierra Sapphire LX. Now, if you're after something with poor feedback, ropey steering and spongey breaks, this was the car. But christ I used to enjoy driving it and is probably where I learned to cope with high levels of understeer. Twas a good solid car that Fordy.

 

[Blackwhite]

Not even gonna bother reading those links... I knows what I know. These manufactures always err on the side of caution and seems you've bought into their marketing regarding 'oversteering and heading down a bank sideways'.
I've seen enough cars understeer off the road in winter or in the wet, to know where I prefer my grip thanks all the same.

I noticed from your avatar that you joined the forum ten days ago.

Is this your first forum you have been on?