Ticking/tapping noise? S3 tfsi

[aterro]

Basically under light revs eg 1/2k revs on the spot, there is a ticking noise that comes on when I rev.

I've got a video below.



Any ideas?

 

[NeilMc1983]

cam chain tensioner?

 

[Davjon747]

cam chain tensioner?

I thought they had a cam belt not a chain

 

[aterro]

any opinions?

 

[NeilMc1983]

I thought they had a cam belt not a chain

On the drivers side of the engine is the cam belt, on the opposite end is the chain linking both shafts.

A common problem with these engines is the tensioner fails, causing the chain to flex and flap around. The tappet/tapping sound you hear is the chain hitting the inside of the metal case which covers it.

I currently have the same issue with my A3 2004 2.0 FSI.

Here's a video of what the chain looks like when the tensioner fails...


Here's a link to the replacement part on eBay..
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171716925648

And here's a video I recorded today of my A3 making the loud tappets noise. Using a screwdriver I point to the case which holds the chain inside. This is where all my noise is comming from and I can feel through the screwdriver the chain flapping around.


Hope this is helpful

 

[Smirky]

Does it cause damage if left unfixed? Is it an easy job to do or is it a garage/specialist job ??

 

[aterro]

Thanks Neil!
How hard was it to replace?

Mines a TFSI ENGINE? if that makes any difference?

Mine doesn't rattle all over the revs though
Only if you hold it at 1.2k-2k Revs. Not at idle at all

Surely if it's under load, then it tightens, which should make it tighter and not tick?

It's more of a ticking noise?
I'll listen to that area in more detail today and see if it sounds like it's that!

 

[aterro]

If it helps, it sounds like more of a relay ticking noise but constant. ?

 

[NeilMc1983]

Does it cause damage if left unfixed? Is it an easy job to do or is it a garage/specialist job ??

If left, it will cause more damage mate, best get it fixed. A garage could do it. Or if you're confident, you could tackle it yourself. There's plenty of guides and videos on how to do it. It's just more time consuming than difficult.

Thanks Neil!
How hard was it to replace?

Mines a TFSI ENGINE? if that makes any difference?

Mine doesn't rattle all over the revs though
Only if you hold it at 1.2k-2k Revs. Not at idle at all

Surely if it's under load, then it tightens, which should make it tighter and not tick?

It's more of a ticking noise?
I'll listen to that area in more detail today and see if it sounds like it's that!

I've not changed mine yet mate, the video of my one making the noise was only filmed yesterday afternoon.

I'll try and find time today to open her up and have a poke around. Then I'll order the parts needed and do it myself during the week.

Our engines are virtually the same, just yours has a turbo, hense the T in TFSI.

When the engine is on, the tensioner should lift up and stay up, this tightens the chain, with faulty tensioner, it will repeatedly lift up, then drop back down which is noisy and it causes the chain to flap around. If its not the tensioner being faulty, it could be oil pressure related I think???

If you see this video, as the guy is turning the engine manually, you'll see the tensioner lifts up and makes the chain tight, BUT at the 23 second mark of the video, the tensions drops back down! It shouldn't do that. You'll see the same process in the video I posted yesterday, only that guy started the engine and you get to see it raise and drop really fast, causing that horrid noise.

Fire yours up and poke your ears around the engine bay, try and locate what area the sound is coming from.

Sadly this is a real common issue with VW/Audi Engines.

 

[aterro]

Just had a proper listen, the noise doesn't seem to be coming from the cam tensioner area if I use a stethoscope! And carnt seem to locate the sound!

Weird.
Is the tensioner manually raised? Or electrically raised to tension belt?

Can you just change the tensioner and leave chain?

Don't suppose you could write a mini how to when you do it?

i presume chain only goes around the cam shafts and not down to bottom of engine? So it's just like changing a chain on a bike? Par oil haha

 

[Smirky]

Mine goes up to amd next month so might get them to have a look/fix it if it's a common problem I've sure they would he seen it before

 

[NeilMc1983]

Just had a proper listen, the noise doesn't seem to be coming from the cam tensioner area if I use a stethoscope! And carnt seem to locate the sound!

Weird.
Is the tensioner manually raised? Or electrically raised to tension belt?

Can you just change the tensioner and leave chain?

Don't suppose you could write a mini how to when you do it?

i presume chain only goes around the cam shafts and not down to bottom of engine? So it's just like changing a chain on a bike? Par oil haha

Hmmm very weird! So where did the noise seem to come from?

Just had a proper listen, the noise doesn't seem to be coming from the cam tensioner area if I use a stethoscope! And carnt seem to locate the sound!

Weird.
Is the tensioner manually raised? Or electrically raised to tension belt?

Can you just change the tensioner and leave chain?

Don't suppose you could write a mini how to when you do it?

i presume chain only goes around the cam shafts and not down to bottom of engine? So it's just like changing a chain on a bike? Par oil haha

I believe the tensioner goes up and down via oil pressure?

I've not tackled mine yet but you can totally change just the tensioner and not the chain.

Once I've taken mine apart I'll keep you posted and give you a mini step by step guide

 

[MarkpS3]

You won't be able to replace the tensioner without taking the chain off. Plus, if it is ticking, it's due to the chain having stretched, so may as well replace whilst you're in there!

I've done a guide in the how to section of this forum if you want to take a look:

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/how-to-s3-8p-timing-chain.248516/

Although, if it's not tapping it idle, I doubt it's the chain! Ticking get worse when engine warm or is it the same irrespective of engine temp.?

p.s. tensioner is spring & oil pressure

 

[aterro]

Mark, that guide is amazing!!!

How many miles was your S3 on when you did that lot?

It has the normal ticking from injectors at idle, then when under throttle ( stationary )between 1k-2k it seems to tick.

If i hold throttle down to 1.5k it makes the ticking noise ( along side injectors ticking ) as soon as i left of gas it stops.

I presume it sounds like a diesel on idle if timing chain is worn?

Regards

 

[Smirky]

Should this have been done when the cambelt was done ? Or is it totally different ?

 

[aterro]

totally different smirky, it wont be classed as a service requirement.

 

[Smirky]

totally different smirky, it wont be classed as a service requirement.

OK cheers mine is almost at 70K so doubt it ever been done def get it done when I visit amd ,
Anyone no what the part number is for an 08 pre facelift s3 ???

 

[Tfsi gone]

If you suspect that one or both of the cam chain tensioners are faulty I would get it booked in asap. Normally the lower tensioner can fail due to oil pressure problems. If it completely fails then the cam chain can slip jumping a tooth or more resulting in the intake or exhaust valves to contact the piston while the engine is running. If this happens you will need the cylinder head to be removed and the valves to be replaced. At this time you would also need to verify there was no further damage done to the pistons, cylinder walls or cylinder head. This repair would cost £3-4K depending on the damage done...

 

[Smirky]

If you suspect that one or both of the cam chain tensioners are faulty I would get booked in asap. Normally the lower tensioner can fail due to oil pressure problems. If it completely fails then it can cause the intake or exhaust valves to contact the piston while the engine is running. If this happens you will need the cylinder head to be removed and the valves to be replaced. At this time you would also need to verify there was no further damage done to the pistons, cylinder walls or cylinder head. This repair would cost £3-4K depending on the damage done...

Dam it there are no decent garages round here !

 

[aterro]

Wait, how many tensioners do they have on the S3 engines? ( cam chain side)?
there should only be one.....??

 

[Tfsi gone]

Sorry there's a cam chain adjuster & a cam chain tensioner. See the link below:

http://shopdap.com/2-0t-fsi-timing-chain-chain-adjuster-and-chain-tensioner-problems/

I double checked both of mine were changed with new modified parts when my oil consumption rebuild was carried out in February by Audi..

 

[MarkpS3]

Cheers mate.

Car had just over 50k when chain was replaced.

Yeah, it would be fairly noticeable at idle if the chain had a bit of slack in it, as you say.....rather diesel like!

 

[Mario8P]

Any luck with your ticking noise mate?

 

[Smirky]

Mine is going in late August to have chain replaced new tensioner and cam follower etc so I'll let u no

 

[aterro]

According to my stethoscope, and my ears, i believe it to my cam follower ticking at lower revs.

So I've ordered it and ill be replacing next weekend, ill let you know how i get on.

 

[NeilMc1983]

UPDATE:

I've managed to fit the new tensioner and chain at the weekend and it's totally eliminated the loud ticking/tapping noise! I'm so happy! It no longer sounds like a loud diesel!
I got the tensioner and chain from the Audi dealership in Bedford ....£96 for the tensioner!! I went for the genuine parts as i'd heard from a few people that the ebay tensioners had a high failure rate and i wanted to play it safe.

I won't lie, some parts of the repair were a complete nightmare, partly due to my 2.0 FSI engine having LOADS of parts in the way of the cam chain case and almost all of them had corroded/threaded bolts in impossible to reach locations! Grrrr!!

The only time i needed a 2nd pair of hands was when i was putting the cam case back on, it was tricky to fit it back on with just one pair of hands, trying to compress both cams down ( the valve springs are strong) and fit the cam case at the same time.... no chance!

MarkpS3's guide was extremely helpful, massive thanks for the guide mate, it helped me out hugely!

After i'd changed the tensioner, chain, put new gaskets on etc.. i fired her up and she was a bit groggy for 20-30 seconds then the revs settled and the engine was running so sweet! I've honestly never heard it so quiet and smooth, it totally feels like a new car! It's been 4 days since i fixed it and it still amazes me how quiet it is! I purchased the car months ago and it was making the loud tappets noise then, so this is the first time i've heard it running quiet! I'm soooooo chuffed!

The next day i flushed the old oil out, replaced it all with Castrol Edge, plus a new oil filter as there was bound to been some sh*t fall in engine while the rocker cover was off, especially when you have to clean all the old sealant off.

Here's the engine sound before.....


And here's the engine sound after the tension and chain was replaced... almost can't hear the engine at idle!!


as you can hear, its a huge difference!

 

[aterro]

Great stuff Neil,

Whats the mileage on your FSI?

and would you sell me your cam tools? eg the locking ones that you used?

 

[Mario8P]

Guys sorry for the OT but is there anyway to check injectors duty using vcds?

 

[NeilMc1983]

Great stuff Neil,

Whats the mileage on your FSI?

and would you sell me your cam tools? eg the locking ones that you used?

Hello mate, i purchased the car with 92,000 miles and it already had the noise, its now at 99,800 miles. the guy i purchased it from said it always made that noise when he had it, and he purchased it at 70,000!!!

If i had any specialist tools, i'd just give you them mate, but as you'll see from my picture, i didn't use any

With regards to locking the cams etc.. i didn't need to, I'd marked lines on the cams and the cam case, that way it's impossible to put them back on wrong, and you don't have to mess around with marking the chain or the teeth etc..

and having both cams moving around, it was easier to put the chain around them. (the top cam is locked in place by the cam belt, the 2nd cam comes out freely)

You'll see in this pic, its dead easy to get them lined up right.

I did need a 2nd pair of hands when i was trying the put the cam case back on as the cams kept wanting to push themselves up due to the valve springs being so ****** strong!

All you need is someone to push them down so they stay down, then you can put the case back on, which is a ****** itself!

While my method is far from perfect and not as professional as MarkpS3's, it still worked, and i'm so chuffed with the results!

 

[MarkpS3]

Good job! Glad you got the result you were after, and some! Sounds much smoother, haha.

Just curious - did you even attempt to remove the bolt on the cam adjuster or not want to risk stripping it out?

 

[NeilMc1983]

Good job! Glad you got the result you were after, and some! Sounds much smoother, haha.

Just curious - did you even attempt to remove the bolt on the cam adjuster or not want to risk stripping it out?

I threw everything except the kitchen sink at bolt on the cam adjuster, it just wouldn't budge!! Even the breaker bar wouldn't get it off so I gave up and had to take the case off.

Getting the Torx bit on the bolt was also a ****** (T55 I think) I had to hammer the torx bit into the bolt! I tried 3 or 4 different makes of T55 bits, all were about 0.001mm too big, the hammer managed to shamshed it in, but the bolt wouldn't budge.

Not sure if MarkpS3 had the same issue hense why he had to take the casing off the top.

 

[MarkpS3]

Haha! Same, it was a nightmare. To the point where I thought I could see the camshaft starting to twist. Last thing I wanted to do was snap that!

It's a Polydrive bolt (I believe) pal, which is probably why you struggled with the Torx. They're similar looking but not quite.

But yup, much more involved but safer, me thinks.

 

[NeilMc1983]

Hahahah that'll be why the T55 bits wouldn't fit

I feel like Jeremy Clarkson now!! "I'll install the interior,.... where's the hammer?"

Mark, did you have the same kind of results as me? The engine noise being so much quieter?

I've spoken to so many other A3 owners who all said the noise is normal for A3's! Probably 9 out 10 people who also have the noise said its fine and its normal!!

The Tensioner failing is a more common fault than people think!!

 

[Mario8P]

What's the chances of having a failed/collapsed tappet?

 

[MarkpS3]

Haha! Don't worry, I resorted to the hammer several times throughout the job, too!

Yup, the engine sounded much better. There is still some 'ticking' - but that's perfectly normal for any type of FSI engine, due to the high pressure fuelling. So perhaps that's just what some of them thought you meant?

Mario, couldn't comment on the likelihood of a tappet failing.....but if it did, I think you'd know about it.

 

[Mario8P]

I think I pinpointed where my ticking/rattling is coming from. It seems coming from the timing belt area.

Car never had timing belt replaced since production. As I purchased the car brand new in August 2014. Car has done only 19000 km.

What's the chances of having a failing timing belt tensioner?

 

[aterro]

It ended up being my cam follower slightly worn that was ticking. Thank god! Great thread for future reference for other members though!

 

[Mario8P]

The annoying ticking noise is back!
I replaced 8 tappets like 2 months ago and I think it cured the noise but now it's back.

The engine is so silent and smooth on cold startups. The ticking occurs only when I park the car for couple of hours and start it later on before the engine gets completely cold.

The tapping disappears as soon as the engine oil temp reaches 80-90 degrees Celsius.

I change my oil and filter every 5000km.
I use liqui moly synthoil high-tech 5w40
Car has 25,000 km on the clock
I am pulling my hair here

 

[audis3UK]

I have the ticking sound but only at RPM under 1000. If i rev to just over 1K its totally smooth. The sound seems to be loudest on the drivers side of the car in the cabin. Any ideas? S3 8p with 115 000km and stage 2.

 

[Shady0808]

My car sounds a little like that, was told it was just the sound of the HPFP. I have used the OBD11 app to check the "Camshaft Adjustment Adaption". Said it was 1 degree so it should be fine.