Jeremy Clarkson, will he get the sack?

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OMG political correctness going mad again ..... This reminds me of when sheep in nursery rhymes were changed from black to green !!!!

If coulored is not an issue why is it offensive to even approach this word if you are white and not if you are any other colour .... And there are dozens of rap songs with this word in and we haven't banned them ??
 
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I think Clarkson is a C**T but I don't think he has done anything wrong here
 
I can't believe how this has got so blown out of proportion, the media will do anything to stir things up. If nobody reported it nobody would know about it so preventing all the soap box people from the so called hurt they must be feeling from an accidental slur of words. Why can't people just treat it as it is an error and move on ***.
 
Am I the only one who thinks that the last series of Top Gear wasn't as good as previous, my boys and I used to sit down together and watch this religiously as we were all pretty tuned into the humour (my wife has always had a pathological hatred for the show) but I don't think we even watched all of the last episodes.

The reason I ask is that because ultimately any decision will probably be made purely on financial, as opposed to moral, grounds, if TG continues as a huge money making machine the BBC will probably decide to ride out the storm, if it is in decline they may decide to bow to political pressure and give him the chop.

This clip was shot 2 years ago and, if he is to be believed, he brought it to management's attention then, why in that case are they only now deciding to launch an investigation?

It would be interesting to know who leaked this clip and why now, Was it maybe sanctioned so they can cut his next wage bill, was it just someone he ****** off at the BBC looking for revenge or was it purely for financial gain. I suspect that's what the investigation, if it's actually happening, will be focusing on.

For what it's worth I agree with James May but, as has already been said, he's in the public eye and should be acutely aware that any use of this word is impossible to defend. The fact that he has for the first time released an explanation/apology shows he is truly worried about this one and knows his coat is on a shaky nail.

Maybe we'll see Fifth Gear on the BBC next year, I actually prefer it now, even my wife likes it.
 
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I'm struggling to work out who is more stupid....

a) Jeremy Clarkson for thinking it would be ok to use on TV a rhyme that he knew was notorious for the racist word contained in it, or....

b) the planks in this thread who still can't see any wrong in that.


We've had sense and nonsense in this thread, now all we're missing is 'Just Plain Old' with his usual opportunistic BNP recruitment drive.
 
We all know JC is prone to saying controversial things, like all Truckers are murderers. etc...
I think he knows he funked up on this one, the fact that he released an apology negates the debate of if he did/didn't mean it.
This time I think he may have overstepped the mark. Its just not for me to judge him.

I don't think whites(me included) can ever REALLY understand the effect of the N word.
Yes I know its in all the hip-hop songs we know and love, but its different for blacks to use it towards each other,
Wether or not its right for them to do so is another discussion altogether,
if it is so offensive, then it puzzles me why they would use it so freely. It just demeans/de-senitises the power of the word.

This is one topic where there is never going to be universal agreement, lets not turn it into a "who's the least/most racist thread"
If the word offends you, for whatever reason, then It's racist, and your right to be offended.
If it doesn't offend you, for whatever reason then more power to you, just dont judge the other side.

Scott. :respekt:
 
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Ads, did Jeremy Clarkson, offend you, cause you alarm or distress?

If so can you tell me why?

Just asking, I'm not a racist BTW...

Peace...
 
You are alarmed by what exactly?

Maybe its just me being stupid, but I really just don't understand...

Please spell it out for me what offence he has committed ?

Peace...
 
Artsa said:
You are alarmed by what exactly?

Maybe its just me being stupid, but I really just don't understand...

Please spell it out for me what offence he has committed ?

Peace...
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Jesus mate... Really??

I'm not sure how else I can explain it to you, other than saying what I have already said in very simple terms lots of times in this thread.

If you can't understand MY points from all that I've written already then you never will, and we'll just have to leave it there.
 
Ads said:
Jesus mate... Really??

I'm not sure how else I can explain it to you, other than saying what I have already said in very simple terms lots of times in this thread.

If you can't understand MY points from all that I've written already then you never will, and we'll just have to leave it there.
Click to expand...

Ok we'll just leave it there then, I really can't be ***** to read back through all the BS...

Ive heard far too much of it the last two days.

If you can't answer my simple question then end of...

Peace...
 
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Let's not kid ourselves into thinking Jezza didn't know exactly what he was doing. Firstly, he chose a rhyme that contains the N-word. He didn't need to. He could have chosen "one potato, two potato.." to exactly the same end. Secondly, at the point in the rhyme where the N-word occurs, he mumbles. Why? If he was using any word other than the N-word, he'd have had no reason to mumble.

To put the point another way, he deliberately recorded himself doing something that had the potential to offend many people. So regardless of how it was leaked, and the motives of those who leaked, he yet again put himself in a position to court needless controversy.

I'm afraid his ego has got the better of him. He has created a personality that he has to feed relentlessly. Even if this current incident doesn't end up as the last straw, it does seem only to be a matter of time before he destroys himself.
 
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Applying a lateral argument, just for the FUN of it...

Rumour has it that Jeremy is going to be investigated by someone from the Black Police Association.

I'm not sure which is a worse slap in the face to political correctness than THAT single organisational title.

Where's the White Police association? Not that I care really, it's just a point.

Not that I've any fondness for a PC either, you understand. Once that dedicated human being dons that know-all uniform they invariably become a complete *"!&$ole, and there's mega proof of this each and every time to watch "Motorway Cops", etc. I mean; if you employed guys who behaved like this at work would you want it broadcast to the nation?

I'm old, I live next door to ex-one, and I don't care... :shrug:

And I do like J.C. A LOT!
 
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Ads said:
I'm struggling to work out who is more stupid....

a) Jeremy Clarkson for thinking it would be ok to use on TV a rhyme that he knew was notorious for the racist word contained in it, or....

b) the planks in this thread who still can't see any wrong in that.


We've had sense and nonsense in this thread, now all we're missing is 'Just Plain Old' with his usual opportunistic BNP recruitment drive.
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I've been mulling this through the day and I can see why you hold that position to a certain extent, although I am not sure I agree with it.

For many people (perhaps mainly younger) it will not have that connotation, certainly when I grew up in the 80's and 90's it wasn't something I recall hearing, although I'll be honest and say I cannot recall exactly how and when I became aware of the 'n' word version, so perhaps it was but I don't recall it as such.

To me I would suggest that the rhyme "eeny meeny miny moe" cannot be unheard or forgotton and is going to stick just because it works, the fact that most people have become better educated and no longer use the 'n' word variant is an evolution of the rhyme and, hopefully in time, the rogue version will disappear altogether.

Before posting this I took a look at the origins (according to Wikipedia so, of course, not definitive 'research') and it appears that the basis for the rhyme predates the offensive version. For me this means that whilst the rhyme has been perverted into an offensive version for a period of time it shouldn't be struck from the record books or common usage just because of this. Absolutely the offensive variety has, and had, no place in a civilised society, but the variants such as 'tiger' or 'teacher'... well so what? If that's the only version someone has heard that's the only meaning it has to them, and in time the offensive version will rightly be lost in the mists of time. Although yes of course I understand that Clarkson was well aware of this version of the rhyme.

With all of that in mind I'm not sure that qualifies him as wrong to have used the rhyme as aired. Put it this way, had he never mumbled somthing that bore a similarity to (accidentally or otherwise) the offensive term we wouldn't be having this conversation. I don't recall any outcries at the time of the original airing, and Googling for results on that rhyme before the current news doesn't seem to bring up any ofcom or similar complaints.

I'm not a script writer (clearly, see ramblings above) but the rhyme, as used, got the point across and, at least for me, the offensive version didn't even register. "Ip dip dog sh..." wouldn't have been appropriate either, and that is something that was common in the playground when I was growing up and "one potato, two potato" doesn't, to my mind, flow for the purposes of what they were attempting to illustrate.

So... all of that is rather a long winded way of saying I think it's a little harsh to brand people as "planks" for not being upset at the use of the rhyme as aired. :beerchug:
 
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I think the thing is,that love him or loathe him(and even that seems evenly divided) the silly old fool(and I can say that being of a similar age!) has accepted that he went too far,and said that he " appeared to mumble the word".

Having said that himself about the incident,there really isn't much to be argued over.

Personally,I quite like TG but not every episode,and it has to be said that Clarkson does court both publicity and controversy,and that's never a good mix.
 
Shrek5 said:
I've been mulling this through the day and I can see why you hold that position to a certain extent, although I am not sure I agree with it.

For many people (perhaps mainly younger) it will not have that connotation, certainly when I grew up in the 80's and 90's it wasn't something I recall hearing, although I'll be honest and say I cannot recall exactly how and when I became aware of the 'n' word version, so perhaps it was but I don't recall it as such.

To me I would suggest that the rhyme "eeny meeny miny moe" cannot be unheard or forgotton and is going to stick just because it works, the fact that most people have become better educated and no longer use the 'n' word variant is an evolution of the rhyme and, hopefully in time, the rogue version will disappear altogether.

Before posting this I took a look at the origins (according to Wikipedia so, of course, not definitive 'research') and it appears that the basis for the rhyme predates the offensive version. For me this means that whilst the rhyme has been perverted into an offensive version for a period of time it shouldn't be struck from the record books or common usage just because of this. Absolutely the offensive variety has, and had, no place in a civilised society, but the variants such as 'tiger' or 'teacher'... well so what? If that's the only version someone has heard that's the only meaning it has to them, and in time the offensive version will rightly be lost in the mists of time. Although yes of course I understand that Clarkson was well aware of this version of the rhyme.

With all of that in mind I'm not sure that qualifies him as wrong to have used the rhyme as aired. Put it this way, had he never mumbled somthing that bore a similarity to (accidentally or otherwise) the offensive term we wouldn't be having this conversation. I don't recall any outcries at the time of the original airing, and Googling for results on that rhyme before the current news doesn't seem to bring up any ofcom or similar complaints.

I'm not a script writer (clearly, see ramblings above) but the rhyme, as used, got the point across and, at least for me, the offensive version didn't even register. "Ip dip dog sh..." wouldn't have been appropriate either, and that is something that was common in the playground when I was growing up and "one potato, two potato" doesn't, to my mind, flow for the purposes of what they were attempting to illustrate.

So... all of that is rather a long winded way of saying I think it's a little harsh to brand people as "planks" for not being upset at the use of the rhyme as aired. :beerchug:
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Well written, but your first points fall apart due to the fact that he has admitted the following:

1) he knew the rhyme contained the n word.

2) he tried to disguise it.

3) he listened to it back and asked for it to be swapped for an even more disguised version.


This proves that, as pointed out in a previous post, he fully knew what he was saying could/would cause offence, so to still do it was just plain stupid on his part.

Your second point about it being a little harsh me branding people as planks is based on a misunderstanding by you.
I didn't say it because people aren't upset by the aired version, as you have claimed. I said it because these people cannot seem to grasp why he was wrong for thinking it was ok to use the rhyme by disguising the offensive word in question. This is in reference to the outtake version, not the aired version.

Another point I'd like to make is... whether or not the disguised version was aired is irrelevant. It's the fact that he was fully aware of what he was doing but still chose to go ahead with it.

So I still stand by what I said that anyone who can't see the obvious wrong in that is a plank.
 
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I think this thread could run and run. Whilst everyone will have a view on what happened (and all those views will differ slightly), likewise it's highly unlikely that our interpretations of the situation will be the same dependent on our tolerances, views, sensitivities etc.

A cross section of people are highly unlikely to share a uniform view, and I think we have to accept that. As I mentioned earlier, it's the human condition, and as long as the views expressed on here are tolerant rather than subversive I think we all need to be comfortable with the variance.
 
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anyway,
i am right and you are wrong!
so there!
how you like them apples?
 
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Ads said:
Well written, but your first points fall apart due to the fact that he has admitted the following:

1) he knew the rhyme contained the n word.

2) he tried to disguise it.

3) he listened to it back and asked for it to be swapped for an even more disguised version.


This proves that, as pointed out in a previous post, he fully knew what he was saying could/would cause offence, so to still do it was just plain stupid on his part.

Your second point about it being a little harsh me branding people as planks is based on a misunderstanding by you.
I didn't say it because people aren't upset by the aired version, as you have claimed. I said it because these people cannot seem to grasp why he was wrong for thinking it was ok to use the rhyme by disguising the offensive word in question. This is in reference to the outtake version, not the aired version.

Another point I'd like to make is... whether or not the disguised version was aired is irrelevant. It's the fact that he was fully aware of what he was doing but still chose to go ahead with it.

So I still stand by what I said that anyone who can't see the obvious wrong in that is a plank.
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Ah you may wish to listen to the apology again. With regards to your 'tear down':

1) Agreed, he says as much himself.

2) My interpretation was that he was keen to avoid the use of the word, to quote: "Now of course, I was well aware that in the best known version of this rhyme there is a racist word that I was extremely keen to avoid." Note that he was keen to avoid, not disguise, he is also aware that there are multiple versions of the rhyme, which I think we are all agreed on.

3) He listened to all three versions (I assume) and noted that one of the three, two of which were 'mumbled', bore a resemblance to the 'n' word and insisted that this particular version was not used as it was not intended to sound that way, again to quote: "When I viewed this footage several weeks later, I realised that in one of the mumbled versions, if you listen very carefully with the sound turned right up, it did appear that I’d actually used the word I was trying to obscure.", to which he further adds "I was mortified by this, horrified. It was a word I loathe. I did everything in my power to ensure that that word did not get in the programme that was transmitted."

So to be clear, and based on accepting his word on the version of events (that is all either of us can do):
  • He knew that a well known version of the rhyme contained an offensive term
  • Did not intend to use the term
  • Accepts that one of the three takes unintentionally sounds like he is using the offensive term.
  • Is clarifying that he did not intend the term to be used - disguised or otherwise.

Therefore I am not sure how that disagree's with anything I have said, perhaps you could clarify with quotes where applicable?

One thing I will say is that having listened to the mumbled version a couple of times I actually think it sounds more like he used the offensive term than it did initially (to me), but I currently see nothing that makes me think it was anything other than an unintentional likeness to the sound of the word than an attempt to conceal it in plain sight for provocative purposes. If it were the case that he was intending to conceal it in plain sight would the second of the mumbled clips also not show this?

They key differnce is you believe he was saying it to cause offence via obfuscation of the offensive word, but as far as I can see there was no intent to cause offence, but again perhaps you could clarify with quotes?

Now if he was setting out to cause offense of course that's a different kettle of fish but based on what we know and assume that Clarkson is telling the truth we cannot infer anything else (as far as I can see), from what's been said.

Ads said:
Your second point about it being a little harsh me branding people as planks is based on a misunderstanding by you.
I didn't say it because people aren't upset by the aired version, as you have claimed. I said it because these people cannot seem to grasp why he was wrong for thinking it was ok to use the rhyme by disguising the offensive word in question. This is in reference to the outtake version, not the aired version.
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No misunderstanding, I know you aren't saying people are/were offended by what was broadcast, but I believe you to be incorrect in the assertion that Clarkson was wrong to use the rhyme due to one variation of it containing an offensive term. My understanding of your argument is thus: Clarkson should not have used eeny meeny miny moe due to one of the variations containing an offensive term, is that correct?

If so I stand by the point that it was not incorrect to use a non-offensive version of the rhyme to illustrate the point. Which is a seperate issue from whether he used the offensive word or not, is it not?
 
Shrek5 said:
Ah you may wish to listen to the apology again. With regards to your 'tear down':

1) Agreed, he says as much himself.

2) My interpretation was that he was keen to avoid the use of the word, to quote: "Now of course, I was well aware that in the best known version of this rhyme there is a racist word that I was extremely keen to avoid." Note that he was keen to avoid, not disguise, he is also aware that there are multiple versions of the rhyme, which I think we are all agreed on.

3) He listened to all three versions (I assume) and noted that one of the three, two of which were 'mumbled', bore a resemblance to the 'n' word and insisted that this particular version was not used as it was not intended to sound that way, again to quote: "When I viewed this footage several weeks later, I realised that in one of the mumbled versions, if you listen very carefully with the sound turned right up, it did appear that I’d actually used the word I was trying to obscure.", to which he further adds "I was mortified by this, horrified. It was a word I loathe. I did everything in my power to ensure that that word did not get in the programme that was transmitted."

So to be clear, and based on accepting his word on the version of events (that is all either of us can do):
  • He knew that a well known version of the rhyme contained an offensive term
  • Did not intend to use the term
  • Accepts that one of the three takes unintentionally sounds like he is using the offensive term.
  • Is clarifying that he did not intend the term to be used - disguised or otherwise.

Therefore I am not sure how that disagree's with anything I have said, perhaps you could clarify with quotes where applicable?

One thing I will say is that having listened to the mumbled version a couple of times I actually think it sounds more like he used the offensive term than it did initially (to me), but I currently see nothing that makes me think it was anything other than an unintentional likeness to the sound of the word than an attempt to conceal it in plain sight for provocative purposes. If it were the case that he was intending to conceal it in plain sight would the second of the mumbled clips also not show this?

They key differnce is you believe he was saying it to cause offence via obfuscation of the offensive word, but as far as I can see there was no intent to cause offence, but again perhaps you could clarify with quotes?

Now if he was setting out to cause offense of course that's a different kettle of fish but based on what we know and assume that Clarkson is telling the truth we cannot infer anything else (as far as I can see), from what's been said.


No misunderstanding, I know you aren't saying people are/were offended by what was broadcast, but I believe you to be incorrect in the assertion that Clarkson was wrong to use the rhyme due to one variation of it containing an offensive term. My understanding of your argument is thus: Clarkson should not have used eeny meeny miny moe due to one of the variations containing an offensive term, is that correct?

If so I stand by the point that it was not incorrect to use a non-offensive version of the rhyme to illustrate the point. Which is a seperate issue from whether he used the offensive word or not, is it not?
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As far as my involvement goes, you've entered into this debate too late. I haven't got the energy or interest to continue dissecting it.

I've already missed Britain's Got Talent because of all this. I've got to start paying the missus some attention now cos I'm not risking my Saturday BJ too.
 
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cop out!










pics or it never happened!

besides, you are the one that would not let it lie mate! :kiss:
 
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Clarkson, he isn't some half wit bumbling around on tv, he is a very clever man, of higher intelligence than most, and likes nothing more than to stick his tongue into the side of his cheek and test the boundaries.

No-one of his ilk, of his education, of his intelligence, of his extraordinary career on national tv, with his experience of having the press baying for his blood, would NOT know that word is offensive to a huge number of people.

He is right to have apologised, he better believe he is on his last warning, and the BBC need to tell him to stop trying to be so ****** clever.
 
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Yet again, I asked a simple question and you failed to answer it.
 
"I've already missed Britain's Got Talent because of all this. I've got to start paying the missus some attention now cos I'm not risking my Saturday BJ too."

Every cloud, well the first part anyway.

I'm starting to understand why apparently straightforward celebrity court cases can last for weeks on end.
 
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