Help identifying fuel pump & Next Engine Mods

[Dhyllan]

Hi All,

Recently picked up a Sprint Blue S3 2009 with all the factory extra's. Claimed to be running Revo Stage 2 + with HR bars and springs

It has the ITG Maxogen and Full Decat Milltek. Its claimed to have an auto tech fuel pump internals, if i strip the pump down will i be able to tell if it has one? Ive called Revo and they will not be able to tell if it has Stage 2+ map on, all they will be able to find out is if it has Revo code or not.

I currently also have a 460BHP Focus RS Mk2 with a fully forged engine. The 5pot gives a lot of torque (550 ft lbs) so the S3 does feel quite slow in comparison, i want some more power that is safe with a standard engine as i don't want to go the forged route.

Three problems i currently have with the car is i snapped the propshaft bolts as soon as i got it and damaged the pro (Ordered a used one) It has a huge flat spot between 5.3-6K roughly then the power comes back in about 6K and a knock at the front when i brake or accelerate hard.

So my question is what mods would limit the standard turbo? Is there an uprated turbo thats a happy medium without pushing the standard engine internals? From my research ill need the following, is there anything else to add:

- Intercooler. THS, Pro Alloy or Airtec
- RS4 Fuel Pressure Reg
- APR or Autotech Pump (Depending if it has one)
- Full Engine Mount set. Revo or THS?
- VWR or Revo Induction kit (Don't like the ITG's look)
- Revo PCV Mod or full catch system?
- Iridium Plugs

And if i want to upgrade the turbo:

- Loba LO4 Turbo
- RS4 Injectors

anything else i should add?

Thanks in advance

 

[S3Alex]

Hi there...welcome to the forum.
Well done with the Focus...I used to have a GpN Escort Cosworth before moving into the VAG fold.
If your car is running Stg2+ hardware and software,you've reached the realistic limits of the stock turbo,which is running at the limits of it's map now.
You may see people claiming 380bhp from theirs,but most fall into the 360-370bhp bracket,and there is relatively little outside that.
The internals are reliable up to about 440bhp/440lbs,but you would need RS4 injectors,and at the very least,the Loba turbo you've mentioned.
Above that,you need a full bottom end rebuild,plus a larger turbo,auxiliary fuel pump and a host of other parts.
Have a look through my build thread here,and ask whatever you need.....http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-sportback-8p-chassis/106134-time-build-thread-big-turbo.html

 

[Dhyllan]

Hi Alex,

Ive seen across the forum your extensive knowledge and have just had a skim through your build thread. Ive never had anything else but a Ford ranging from Racing Puma's to Mk2 RS's MK1 RS's. 250BHP NA Fiesta's the lot! Been featured in Fast Ford. I must get some pics up when i have chance. Cossie is definitely next on the list.

This is my first VAG car and it is growing on me. It can do everything.

I would be happy at a circa 420bhp. I think that should be safe running standard internals? Revo should be able to sort my map.

Does my list cover all area's? In Parts that i need?

What would you recommend Intercooler, Engine Mount and Fuel Pump side of things in terms of manufacturer?

 

[S3Alex]

Hi Alex,Ive seen across the forum your extensive knowledge and have just had a skim through your build thread. Ive never had anything else but a Ford ranging from Racing Puma's to Mk2 RS's MK1 RS's. 250BHP NA Fiesta's the lot! Been featured in Fast Ford. I must get some pics up when i have chance. Cossie is definitely next on the list. This is my first VAG car and it is growing on me. It can do everything.I would be happy at a circa 420bhp. I think that should be safe running standard internals? Revo should be able to sort my map.Does my list cover all area's? In Parts that i need? What would you recommend Intercooler, Engine Mount and Fuel Pump side of things in terms of manufacturer?

Hi Dhyllan....thank you!
The car from stock is a bit slow and stodgy,and understeers heavily.
A remap sets it where it should be,and I think you've had a good bit of the groundwork there already,with Stg2+
If you haven't had the suspension and brakes done,I would seriously recommend those,and I used kW v3 coilovers,plus H&R ARBs and DaveB1970 is the man to contact for brakes.
The icing on that cake is the race Haldex controller which will help direct torque to the rear quicker,and also adjustable topmounts for the suspension.
I used VWRacing engine mounts,although you could easily use the THS or Revo ones instead,but they are essential.
My engine ran 440bhp and 440lbs prior to the rebuild(for more power,not because it had broken),so it should be fine for that.
.
I have a ProAlloy intercooler,although the Airtec and THS are alternatives,and you may want to consider water/meth as well,if you really go for it.
.
Bear in mind that whilst you're putting a hybrid turbo in,it will run out of puff at around 420-440bhp,so you may want to think about a full BT kit if you think you would eventually run more.....we're at a bit over 500bhp now,and there is more to come
The APR/Autotech HPFPs are fine,but above 440bhp you will need an uprated LPFP setup such as the one I use.

 

[Dhyllan]

Hi Dhyllan....thank you!
The car from stock is a bit slow and stodgy,and understeers heavily.
A remap sets it where it should be,and I think you've had a good bit of the groundwork there already,with Stg2+
If you haven't had the suspension and brakes done,I would seriously recommend those,and I used kW v3 coilovers,plus H&R ARBs and DaveB1970 is the man to contact for brakes.
The icing on that cake is the race Haldex controller which will help direct torque to the rear quicker,and also adjustable topmounts for the suspension.
I used VWRacing engine mounts,although you could easily use the THS or Revo ones instead,but they are essential.
My engine ran 440bhp and 440lbs prior to the rebuild(for more power,not because it had broken),so it should be fine for that.
.
I have a ProAlloy intercooler,although the Airtec and THS are alternatives,and you may want to consider water/meth as well,if you really go for it.
.
Bear in mind that whilst you're putting a hybrid turbo in,it will run out of puff at around 420-440bhp,so you may want to think about a full BT kit if you think you would eventually run more.....we're at a bit over 500bhp now,and there is more to come
The APR/Autotech HPFPs are fine,but above 440bhp you will need an uprated LPFP setup such as the one I use.

Thanks for the info that helps a lot! Will get cooler and mounts ordered today

any ideas on this flat spot? is it due to the press reg?

also fuel pump wise can I tell if its autotech or do I just need a new unit?

like I said wont go more than 420 as I'll be getting a TTRS in summer

Brakes wise I was looking RS3 or R8? are they good enough or am I better if with AP? what can Dave supply?

if you don't mind do you have a full spec sheet When it was 440?

thanks

 

[S3RYE]

Hi dhyllan,

I will have various parts including an APR fuel pump for sale very shortly as well as some AP racing brakes to help your conversion. PM me if interested.

Ryan

 

[S3Alex]

Thanks for the info that helps a lot! Will get cooler and mounts ordered today any ideas on this flat spot? is it due to the press reg?also fuel pump wise can I tell if its autotech or do I just need a new unit? like I said wont go more than 420 as I'll be getting a TTRS in summerBrakes wise I was looking RS3 or R8? are they good enough or am I better if with AP? what can Dave supply?if you don't mind do you have a full spec sheet When it was 440? thanks

You've got the offer of an AP kit from S3RYE,which would be a perfectly reasonable setup,and on the fuel pump,you won't be able to tell from the outside,but there's no way the pump would be up to Stg2+ without having been modified.
.
You would need it stripped down by an expert to tell if the parts inside have been uprated,and the flat spot may be down to the fuel pressure regulator,although to be honest you would need it on an RR to be datalogged.
.
Parts list is here....http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-...ime-build-thread-big-turbo-5.html#post1556971
.
You can exclude the auxiliary LP fuel pump,the BT kit,and internals,plus intake pipes,but you will need a fairly hefty clutch potentially,and you can take a look at the Spec Stg3+ that I use here...
.
http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-sportback-8p-chassis/155442-spec-stage-3-clutch.html

 

[S3Alex]

Forgot to say...if you're looking at a TT-RS next year,you may not wish to plough loads of time and cash into the S3,although the other side of this is that neither Revo nor APR are getting much beyond 500bhp from the RS,whereas 600bhp from the 2.0L engine is achievable.

 

[Evan@APR]

I would be happy at a circa 420bhp. I think that should be safe running standard internals? Revo should be able to sort my map.

Hello Dhyllan

Not sure if you've considered APR but I can help you skip the guesswork and recommend this: APR Golf R & S3 2.0T FSI Stage III Turbocharger System

Gets you the power you're looking for in a complete, thoroughly-tested and reliable package (including software)

Happy to discuss this further with you here, via email, phone, pm, you name it and I'm there.

Here's a great video to put this kit's performance in perspective.

 

[Evan@APR]

Forgot to say...if you're looking at a TT-RS next year,you may not wish to plough loads of time and cash into the S3,although the other side of this is that neither Revo nor APR are getting much beyond 500bhp from the RS,whereas 600bhp from the 2.0L engine is achievable.

Not sure where you got the info above; We haven't released our kit or graphs yet, but TTRS stage 3 kit will put out around 600bhp on pump gas and 650+ on race gas. I've driven the prototype car and it's faaaaaast.

 

[Dhyllan]

Hi dhyllan,

I will have various parts including an APR fuel pump for sale very shortly as well as some AP racing brakes to help your conversion. PM me if interested.

Ryan

Hi mate

tried to PM you but having trouble with it. contact me on 07859903370 that would be great text or call

 

[S3Alex]

Not sure where you got the info above; We haven't released our kit or graphs yet, but TTRS stage 3 kit will put out around 600bhp on pump gas and 650+ on race gas. I've driven the prototype car and it's faaaaaast.

Hi Evan...wondered when you might turn up.
.
Only going by what you find on VAGOC,where neither JC nor Pov are running that yet,which is why I said what I did,and both are talking of next year before having the cars ready.
.
As you say,you're talking about the prototype car,and not something that's been released for public sale/use as yet,so whilst I don't doubt that the cars WILL be fast,right now it's not something that we out here can buy,and even JC's car isn't fully ready from what he said today.

 

[Evan@APR]

Hi Evan...wondered when you might turn up.
.
Only going by what you find on VAGOC,where neither JC nor Pov are running that yet,which is why I said what I did,and both are talking of next year before having the cars ready.
.
As you say,you're talking about the prototype car,and not something that's been released for public sale/use as yet,so whilst I don't doubt that the cars WILL be fast,right now it's not something that we out here can buy,and even JC's car isn't fully ready from what he said today.

Right, but contrary to your statement we've already surpassed 500bhp in development and production will follow shortly JC's car is just waiting for different/new/better hardware.

Not trying to have a go or anything. The TTRS is an amazing platform.

 

[S3Alex]

Hello DhyllanNot sure if you've considered APR but I can help you skip the guesswork and recommend this: APR Golf R & S3 2.0T FSI Stage III Turbocharger System

Gets you the power you're looking for in a complete, thoroughly-tested and reliable package (including software)

Was I right in guessing that the kit price is about £4318.92inc VAT but EXCL fitting,and also requires a Quattro downpipe?

 

[Evan@APR]

Was I right in guessing that the kit price is about £4318.92inc VAT but EXCL fitting,and also requires a Quattro downpipe?

Nearly! It comes with the quattro downpipe (as pictured). Regular retail set at £4799+VAT and is on sale this month for £4319.10+VAT

 

[S3Alex]

Right, but contrary to your statement we've already surpassed 500bhp in development and production will follow shortly JC's car is just waiting for different/new/better hardware.Not trying to have a go or anything. The TTRS is an amazing platform.

Nor am I.
.
Just talking about something you can actually buy NOW,as opposed to a prototype,which is a different matter.
Don't get me wrong on this....I would love to see this run,and JC will no doubt tell you the same from our threads over on VAGOC,and probably by the time the kit is actually on sale,the OP will be able to buy one for his own RS,but that wasn't really the point of my advice,which was more aimed at letting him consider if it's worth ploughing a lot of money into the S3,with an RS on the near horizon.

 

[Evan@APR]

Fair enough

 

[S3Alex]

Nearly! It comes with the quattro downpipe (as pictured). Regular retail set at £4799+VAT and is on sale this month for £4319.10+VAT

And it's a GTX2876R?
.
That would max out at around 480bhp if I'm right....you'd recommend uprated rods and pistons presumably to go that far?

 

[Evan@APR]

And it's a GTX2876R?
.
That would max out at around 480bhp if I'm right....you'd recommend uprated rods and pistons presumably to go that far?

It's a GTX 2867R. Should hit those figures on race gas though we're quoting a modest 460 from calculated dynapak numbers--should have it on the Maha here in the UK by the end of the week to get a more accurate bhp reading.

On the pump gas file rods aren't required and its been tested with OEM internals for thousands of miles over many months on multiple cars worldwide with no internal failures. We will highly recommend rods at the race fuel level though.

 

[S3Alex]

It's a GTX 2867R. Should hit those figures on race gas though we're quoting a modest 460 from calculated dynapak numbers--should have it on the Maha here in the UK by the end of the week to get a more accurate bhp reading. On the pump gas file rods aren't required and its been tested with OEM internals for thousands of miles over many months on multiple cars worldwide with no internal failures. We will highly recommend rods at the race fuel level though.

Got it.....don't you wish Garrett would give their snails a simpler set of model numbers sometimes.
.
So basically,as with the ATP,and other kits,as long as you keep it to the acknowledged safe limit of 440-460bhp,the stock internals are OK....mine certainly were in as new condition when the engine was stripped down for it's build.
.

And is that an uprated LPFP I see in the picture?...if so,what sort of flow and power will it support?

 

[Evan@APR]

is that an uprated LPFP I see in the picture?...if so,what sort of flow and power will it support?

It is and enough for a stage 3/3+ kit

Seriously though, I don't have those specs at the moment and I'm not positive I'll ever be able to beat it out of my engineers Sorry!

 

[S3Alex]

It is and enough for a stage 3/3+ kit Seriously though, I don't have those specs at the moment and I'm not positive I'll ever be able to beat it out of my engineers Sorry!

Pity....as it doesn't really help people looking at 500bhp+,and the various alternatives.
.
Still...back on the original topic,and for the benefit of Dhyllan,your entire kit,with VAT taken into account would be about £5182 and fitting on top,so he would have to think very carefully indeed,weighing that lot up against the "plug and play" Loba,which would take him as far as he wants with this car.
.
Mine was a very different project,and is still ongoing.

 

[Evan@APR]

What part of Loba is plug and play? All they offer is a turbo. Then you have the burden of sourcing your own ancillary components and someone who can make software for it-- and hopefully that software is good.

 

[S3Alex]

What part of Loba is plug and play? All they offer is a turbo. Then you have the burden of sourcing your own ancillary components and someone who can make software for it-- and hopefully that software is good.

What's this about,Evan.

I thought you guys had managed to leave all the bashing aside for a while.

The turbo is exactly what we've referred to,and you yourself say that it is as described,plug and play.

Are APR not producing software that will work with it?

 

[Evan@APR]

What's this about,Evan.

I thought you guys had managed to leave all the bashing aside for a while.

The turbo is exactly what we've referred to,and you yourself say that it is as described,plug and play.

Are APR not producing software that will work with it?

Hm. I can't recall referring to anything Loba as plug and play--I rarely comment on their products. And no I don't have software for Loba turbos for the 2.0T. When a company provides only hardware, it becomes the customer's responsibility to source the rest to make their car run.

And I was certainly not bashing; If the OP wants a turbo rated for 380PS and to source the additional components and software then he can consider the Loba solution, but he stated a desire for power in the 420bhp range which is right where our stage 3 kit is, hence my contribution. I think our only disagreement here will be that you labelled a Loba solution plug and play, but that's really irrelevant and I'm not that bothered by it

 

[S.]

loba has another turbo taking 2.0tfsi over 450bhp. with WMI was nearly 500 if i remember correctly. and it performs pretty much same as stock k04.

 

[S3Alex]

Hm. I can't recall referring to anything Loba as plug and play--I rarely comment on their products. And no I don't have software for Loba turbos for the 2.0T. When a company provides only hardware, it becomes the customer's responsibility to source the rest to make their car run.

And I was certainly not bashing; If the OP wants a turbo rated for 380PS and to source the additional components and software then he can consider the Loba solution, but he stated a desire for power in the 420bhp range which is right where our stage 3 kit is, hence my contribution. I think our only disagreement here will be that you labelled a Loba solution plug and play, but that's really irrelevant and I'm not that bothered by it

Apologies to you personally,Evan,as that comment was a generalisation.

Also,I did misread your comment about plug and play,but a lot of kits,and turbos are.

We all tend to mix and match to varying degrees,and most software companies work alongside that.

Anyway....Happy Xmas to you,and apologies again for lumping you into the general comment.

 

[Evan@APR]

Apologies to you personally,Evan,as that comment was a generalisation.

Also,I did misread your comment about plug and play,but a lot of kits,and turbos are.

We all tend to mix and match to varying degrees,and most software companies work alongside that.

Anyway....Happy Xmas to you,and apologies again for lumping you into the general comment.

No worries Alex Happy Xmas to you too!