Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

[badger5]

 

[Prawn]

, you go chasing lap times because you have skill and equipment to do it. I want to go as its a good lads weekend, full of laughs and beer and some nice metal.

I go for that too, it's the best bit!

I'll still be going back to the ring most probably, but it'll be in my tdi company car for things like N24 or Rock AM ring as a spectator instead

Thanks for the pic Bill: I see CAE have decided to add a centering spring to their unit as well, which is a development of the VWMS shifter I have.

I've got another idea to further increase the centering strength, but I'll see if I need it or not first

 

[jojo]

I still want to go to 'the ring', even for a touring lap, it's most motorhead's dream to go there at least once in their lifetime. I guess for yourself, you've been and got the T-shirt and a bit more on top! I'd have to hold back on my driving style for a clean lap though methinks!

 

[badger5]

the spring looks to be the std type spring you will find on the OE shifter

I do worry you will buzz the motor with one of these.. the mk2 here, I went from 6th to 3rd when aiming for 5th.. No biggie at the time as revs were just low, but the gate and centre spring confirmed my personal experience & fears with these small gate shifters..

 

[superkarl]

I still want to go to 'the ring', even for a touring lap, it's most motorhead's dream to go there at least once in their lifetime. I guess for yourself, you've been and got the T-shirt and a bit more on top! I'd have to hold back on my driving style for a clean lap though methinks!

even the asn drift king cant explore his skillz there man

 

[Prawn]

the spring looks to be the std type spring you will find on the OE shifter

I do worry you will buzz the motor with one of these.. the mk2 here, I went from 6th to 3rd when aiming for 5th.. No biggie at the time as revs were just low, but the gate and centre spring confirmed my personal experience & fears with these small gate shifters..

Cheers Bill.

Just to repeat our chat on facebook for those who don't see it, I've devised a method of modifying the stock shift lever on the box so that I can get a wider gate on the shifter so it'll have the same side to side movement as the stock shifter does

I'm going to fit it as is and see how it feels, and if needs be, it's about an hours work to modify the lever arm so that the left/right shift will be almost infinitely adjustable

 

[S3 Paul]

I still want to go to 'the ring', even for a touring lap, it's most motorhead's dream to go there at least once in their lifetime. I guess for yourself, you've been and got the T-shirt and a bit more on top! I'd have to hold back on my driving style for a clean lap though methinks!

Same here jojo,
I realy hope to get there next year. Im saddened that Prawn will not be coming. i hoped to tag on a spur of the moment ASN ring run,
Oh well, will try and sort something .

 

[Prawn]

But what about the insurance

You crash, someone crashes on the debris, you're liable. if that's a 100k gt3RS, then good luck to you your UK company wouldn't touch you....

 

[S3 Paul]

I have no intention of pushing on
I just want to go, Enjoy a couple of laps and head home happy that ive ticked another thing off the "bucket list"
To push on... i obviously would stay in the UK for the obvious costs if something went wrong.

 

[Prawn]

I'd rather not get into it if I'm honest, as it's a topic that VERY long time, but not pushing it just isn't enough. The place is full of blind crests and corners, it's as dangerous to go around at 50mph the whole way as it is at 150, as you'll get passed by twice as much traffic, going twice your speed.

What if you come over a blind crest at 80mph, cruising, where I'd be doing 130+, and there's a biker down in the middle of the track?

pushing it or not, it's not a situation I'd like to find myself in at 80mph

So long as people know the risks, then by all means don't me stop you, but I'd hate for anyone to go over there not knowing exactly what they're entering into.

The place is amazing, there's nowhere like it on earth, but if you go, enjoy your own car around the incredible local roads, or take your own car on a trackday and buy expensive trackday cover.

if you want to drive in public sessions, rentals are the only safe way to do so

 

[bigal 1]

Its a great shame but we are not doing any TF again, its to dangerous. We have nearly been hit several times by people not letting us overtake because we were faster. One of the big problems was on bends with people accelerating trying to keep abreast and prevent overtaking then spinning out along side or just in front and quite often with millimetres between us. On fast straights some people don't actually see you coming and shut the door without knowing you are along side. Not funny at the speeds our car travels. German cars and drivers are automatically covered by insurance. We cant get third party insurance as Brits. (I don't know of any company that does)

I saw a prang at the entrance to Brunnchen involving seven cars. The lead car dropped his coolant on the bend and the next seven spun on the liquid. All high end cars with a total value of approaching 1 million. Lead car was a Brit. Don't know the outcome but he was liable. THAT'S why we are not going back. Got the tee shirt and all that.

 

[Andrew@A.L.D]

Are you going to try and mount it a bit higher, closer to the wheel? Like this...

I had a BTCC shifter (along with loads of other bits) for use with an Xtrac box but flogged all the bits when I moved. Gutted I never got to use it, was a work of art.

Nice set up but i do like these

Audi S3 1.8T Monster Performance SQS 6sp.gear test - YouTube

Audi TT dogbox upshift 1-6 - YouTube

The pitch is a bit long and could do with been a bit shorter

 

[Sam_]

Yeah I mentioned the SQS previously as I know Bill ran/runs it. Personally I'd go for a sequential option and spend a little more. A friend was running a dog box'd Longmans built BTCC 206 engine, and went from 5th to 2nd by accident. He hit around 12,000 rpm, valves met pistons and it cost a fortune. Like Bill says, make sure it's spot on...

 

[Prawn]

Personally I'd go for a sequential option and spend a little more.
Like Bill says, make sure it's spot on...

The SQS sequential setup costs about 5-6 times as much as Ive spent on this

 

[Sam_]

Heh, fair play then

 

[Jason.s]

went from 5th to 2nd by accident. He hit around 12,000 rpm, valves met pistons and it cost a fortune. Like Bill says, make sure it's spot on...

Went from 5th to 1st years ago in my CRX and threw a rod through the block. Carved a nice gash in the side of the block and you could see daylight through it. So possible wether its a fancy setup or standard setup lol.

 

[badger5]

Yeah I mentioned the SQS previously as I know Bill ran/runs it. Personally I'd go for a sequential option and spend a little more. A friend was running a dog box'd Longmans built BTCC 206 engine, and went from 5th to 2nd by accident. He hit around 12,000 rpm, valves met pistons and it cost a fortune. Like Bill says, make sure it's spot on...

Seqshift vs a sequential box are massive difference in prices..
£12K+ for a sequential box, which would not be rated for 1.8t torque anyhows

Decent dogbox like SQS, and their shifter works just as well as a barrell type sequential box but for a lot less ££... Still not cheap as its relative, but a lot less.

 

[Sam_]

I wasn't suggesting a proper sequential but a sequential shifter. As i'm sure you know, it's not just the initial cost of a sequential box, but the constant rebuilds etc too. I had a load of ex VLR bits (everything but the box - bell housing, mounts, mad little ap clutch/fly, etc) from the 406 BTCC to fit an Xtrac 406 so fairly familiar with how madly expensive they can be.

 

[Jason.s]

Aye its what my friend at Hewland always used to say when people used to phone up asking for gearboxes for their privately owned race cars. The initial outlay for the box may not seem too crazy but then you`ll need a rebuilt every blah blah blah which costs x amount of cash ontop. Soon puts them off buying one lol. Especially as the cheapest thing they had in their parts department was a tiny washer and that was £3-4 on its own.

 

[badger5]

I wasn't suggesting a proper sequential but a sequential shifter. As i'm sure you know, it's not just the initial cost of a sequential box, but the constant rebuilds etc too. I had a load of ex VLR bits (everything but the box - bell housing, mounts, mad little ap clutch/fly, etc) from the 406 BTCC to fit an Xtrac 406 so fairly familiar with how madly expensive they can be.

SEQshift on an H pattern dogbox is ace..
budget sequential without quite the price tag..

just dont use quaife dog set... horrible non-selection when I suffered them in my box.. Never again. SQS replaced it and rocks!

 

[Prawn]

Another weekend, another update:

New battery has arrived, and it's for a mobility scooter! 6Kg, 22Ah, Deep discharge, not hooked it up yet, but I'm convinced it'll work just fine, Dad found this one for us on ebay after I mentioned the idea after Andy did something similar on the volvo:

Carrying on with the shifter, when I offered the base tower into the car, the old hole from the original shifter was slightly too wide, and didn't give me enough room to neatly get bolts through the front corners of the tower. I didn't want to drill messy holes right on the very edge of the alloy, so decided to make up a plate to match the tower under the tunnel and sandwich the whole thing into place:

6 holes drilled, and tapped to an M6 thread:

Will also back the bolts up with nuts as well, as I don't think threaded 3mm plate is man enough.

With that cut and shaped, I bolted the shifter in, no pics at this point, as it looks the same as it did last time I rested it in place.

I moved onto the gearbox end, and removed the old shift tower and left right levers:

And refitted the modified cable bracket, and the first volvo cable:

Then I forgot to take pics for a while, and started making up the cable stop for the left right cable:

Cut, welded up, and ground back a bit, because my welds arn't the greatest looking!

Cleaned up and bolted into the tunnel in position:

Cable taped at Mid travel, box and lever set at mid point, and the first cable is installed:

Onto the second cable stop,

Cut and clamped in place ready for welding:

Tacked on before welding up further:

I decided to gusset this one, as it's the fore / aft cable stop, and it sits a little higher, and will take more abuse

Welded up, and ground back again. Welds arn't the prettiest, but they work

Got bored of playing cables and decided to test fit the battery. For now, to save on cabling and make life easier, I'm mounting it in the stock location. This purchase was brought forward after my old battery decided to die whilst up at R-tech and I've ben jump starting the car ever since.

Found it'll sit in the middle of the existing battery tray quite nicely, just needs something to secure it down:

Time to paint some stuff.

All primed up:

Then 3 coats of orange 8C6 base coat:

Then finally 3 coats of laquer. pics don't show up well at all, but it seems like a pretty good finish. Will know for sure in the morning when it's all fully dry:

 

[badger5]

good work fella

 

[Andrew@A.L.D]

Another weekend, another update:

New battery has arrived, and it's for a mobility scooter! 6Kg, 22Ah, Deep discharge, not hooked it up yet, but I'm convinced it'll work just fine, Dad found this one for us on ebay after I mentioned the idea after Andy did something similar on the volvo:

Got something like that myself but off a motorbike

 

[westallc]

epic car buddy you must give me a shout when you go on the next track day ;-)

 

[Prawn]

Thanks guys. I'm really happy with how the car is coming along now

So, after 3 whole days of work, this shifter is FINALLY finished! But more on that in a minute.

I started this morning by doing the battery, so I could have a radio on whilst I worked today.

I forgot to get pics, because I'm rubbish, but basically, I took the battery tray out and drilled it, then made up a second bracket from the channel section alloy to go under the tray, and cut some thread bar to hold the battery down in the tray.

Sorted!

I managed to use the original terminals, rotated through 90 degrees, with the tabs on the battery drilled out to 6mm instead of 5mm.

The OEM junction box that sits on top of the battery even fitted on really well with a little tweak:

Turned the key, and it fires the car up perfectly. Very happy with that, 12kg saved for just £40!

On to the shifter, I started today by bolting up the left - right cable that I'd finished yesterday:

Then I marked up and drilled the position for the fore / aft cable bracket and bolted it on:

A few adjustments, and I was finally able to see how it was going to feel changing gear:

Massive hole from the old shifter needed sorting, so I got on with making up a plate to blank the hole:

Then painted it black:

So, that's the shifter finished. Along with other little jobs, it's taken me 3 days! I do work slow, but I'm in no huge hurry and I like to get things right, so I'm really happy with it.

A test drive has revealled that it feels AMAZING, so precise going into gears and really accurate feeling. The left/right gate is a LITTLE narrow compared to what I'm used to, but the self centering is really good and it snaps back to centre very nicely. I think I'll modify a box lever arm next weekend to increase the left /right gate slightly, but that's just a preference.

All in all a really good weekend working on the car

 

[Speedy Steve]

Looks awesome mate good work!

 

[jojo]

As nice as it look Nick, I bet it's a cold mutha in this weather!

 

[Prawn]

Been trying to get my nylon quaife style knob off my old shifter, but it's on there tight!

 

[16Klappe]

Most men would love a nice tight Quaife on their knob..

 

[Lewis583]

Nice progress on the shifter bud. Nice and tidy install :icon_thumright:

Got anymore plans for the car or are you pretty much there?

 

[bigal 1]

Been trying to get my nylon quaife style knob off my old shifter, but it's on there tight!

I think its a typical problem when you get older.

 

[16Klappe]

I think its a typical problem when you get older.

That's grim, some thoughts cannot be unthought. Thanks BBD...

 

[MIGGZ]

good work as always dude

 

[ScottD3]

Prawny, I might have missed it but its easily done on this thread.

What's the difference between this shifter and the standard one?

 

[Lewis583]

Prawny, I might have missed it but its easily done on this thread.

What's the difference between this shifter and the standard one?

It's more precise than the stock shifter and feels more positive, there is very little slack in the system, if any. Plus it looks sweet as **** lol

 

[ScottD3]

It's more precise than the stock shifter and feels more positive, there is very little slack in the system, if any. Plus it looks sweet as **** lol

Haha,
I got a looks bit.

Fair enough on the rest.

But will it help him get the power down on wet days?

I'll get my coat.

 

[bigal 1]

It's more precise than the stock shifter and feels more positive, there is very little slack in the system, if any. Plus it looks sweet as **** lol

Its just like flicking a light switch. So positive.

 

[jojo]

Prawny, I might have missed it but its easily done on this thread.

What's the difference between this shifter and the standard one?

Your car is an automatic Scott.

 

[Prawn]

It's more precise than the stock shifter and feels more positive, there is very little slack in the system, if any. Plus it looks sweet as **** lol

Bang on, the stock shifter has large rubber voided bushes on the ends, which remove a lot of the feel from the shift and make it less direct. I've replaced the both ends of each cable with solid ball joints so there is no play at all, every tiny input at the lever results in an output at the box end.

it took a fair while experimenting with cable lengths to get it feeling really nice, and I've got a plan to widen the left / right gate slightly, but I'm really very happy with how it's working so far, feels totally natural and all the gears are found very easily.

Chuffed to bits with it, just want to drive it now!

 

[Lewis583]

I wonder if it would be possible to adapt a sort of "gear lock out" type system onto the shifter, so that say 1st & 2nd would be locked out to avoid accidental over rpms. Of course that depends on how often/if 2nd is used on track?