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why is the Audi A4 B8 2.0T engine faster than the S3 BAM 165KW?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Neesh, Mar 15, 2010.

  1. Neesh
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    Neesh Member

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    I dont completely understand how a stock A4 B8 2.0T 147Kw is faster than the S3 BAM 165Kw,can someone please explain to me why?

    Surely the B8 is heavier than S3?
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  3. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    Define faster....

    S3 is around 1500kg, A4 prob a bit less if its not a quattro. DSG gearbox option will make it faster through the gears...

    <tuffty/>
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  4. Neesh
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    Neesh Member

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    Seen an A4 2.0T get closer to an Audi S4 on a 1/2 mile run than the BAM S3 on about 4-5 runs.
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  5. auroan
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    auroan Active Member

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    Do you know for def. that the A4 2.0T was std. ? Or that there wasn't a problem with the S3 ?
    #4
  6. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    2.0tfsi motor has a wider broader power band than a 1.8t
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  7. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    the 2.0T cant have been standard
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  8. Neesh
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    Neesh Member

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    The Audi 2.0T was stock standard no mods what so ever,Ive seen this with the Jetta 2.0 TFSI why are these engines quicker I just dont understand and its not the driver either, drivers had a go in both cars aswell and the A4 came out tops well in terms of being against the S4.
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  9. Pren
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    Pren New Member

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    Seen this aswell guys the 2.0TFSI wins by 2 car lengths in a 1/4 mile race and pulls away in the 1/2 mile,the S3 just cant catch it im not sure on the track how it fairs out but it looks like its a good piece of machinery I think it won engine of the year in 2005/2006.

    What is meant by powerband?does that mean it holds the power longer at a certain amount of Revs?
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  10. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    just looked, 0-60 appears the same 6.6 - 6.9 - bloody hell!!
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  11. Pren
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    Pren New Member

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    I heard something about the Newer Audi engines having Variable valve timing ,does the S3 have this?Could this be whats giving it the edge?
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  12. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    nope the BAM engine and AMK (check the AMK) has VVT but makes no difference by all accounts
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  13. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    VVT on 1.8 20v was implemented for emissions not power...

    Lets put this into perspective though... you would kinda expect a more modern variation of an engine to perform better than its predecessors... its not always about how much power you have its the package... too many variables to categorically say whats faster than what and why... take Top Gear and the way they do a lap in cars around the track... on paper the Veyron should have walked over any car they have tested... it didn't...

    <tuffty/>
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  14. Neesh
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    Neesh Member

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    [Mar 15, 2010]

    True but i think in a straight line the Veyron would have anniahlated most of them,figures are more accurately presented in a straight line rather than around a track that is because there is more than one component playing a part suspension,grip,body roll etc etc. All figures aside S3 should have atleast matched up with the A4...its dissapointing when you place so much of faith in a car.Both cars had similar mileage aswell 90 000 on the A4 86000 on the S3.
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  15. auroan
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    auroan Active Member

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    90K miles on the B8 A4... where the hell's the guy been in it. Is it a rep mobile or something.
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  16. Neesh
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    Neesh Member

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    Power to weight ratio:

    A4 2.0 TFSI 138.1 HP/Tonne

    S3 1.8 T 154 HP/Tonne

    Both cars complete the quarter mile in 14.7 Seconds.....
    #15
  17. Neesh
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    Neesh Member

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    [Mar 15, 2010]

    Yeah the guy is a rep for HP printers soloutions or someting along those lines.
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  18. auroan
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    auroan Active Member

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    ????? I get 148bhp per tonne for a B8 fwd 2.0tfsi saloon (1430kg and 208bhp)
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2010
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  19. Neesh
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    Neesh Member

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    Anyone have any idea how the S3 fairs against the A4 3.2 quattro?
    #18
  20. auroan
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    auroan Active Member

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    Thee new engines have something called "valve lift"......http://www.worldcarfans.com/1080626859/audi-variable-valvelift-system-in-detail

    "Audi valvelift system enhances performance from TFSI engines.
    The Audi valvelift system controls engine valve lift on TFSI petrol
    engines in two stages, ensuring optimum combustion chamber
    filling under all engine load situations. It regulates the amount of
    combustion air drawn into the engine by varying inlet valve lift; in
    most cases the throttle butterfly can therefore remain fully open,
    which largely eliminates undesirable throttling losses. The engine
    therefore breathes more freely and develops higher power and
    torque with lower fuel consumption and emissions."
    #19
  21. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    Do we know if the S3 was in good health? on paper it should have been the S3's race but if the S3 was not running as well as it should have (vac leaks, poorly MAF etc) then paper figures mean nothing...

    <tuffty/>
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  22. Neesh
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    Neesh Member

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    I stand corrected 148 HP/Tonne is the correct,The figure I got is from an 8P A3 2.0TFSI 197BHP 1416KG
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  23. Neesh
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    Neesh Member

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    Yeah tuffty gues it couldnt have been in very good health the owner really pushes it to the limit,so you reckon a full health S3 can match up to the B8 2.0TFSI?
    #22
  24. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    I would like to think so, do we know if the B8 had a DSG box?

    Gear changes with DSG are very quick and would certainly help the B8, ratios of the box also makes a difference too...

    Tough one to call tbh, if the S3 was on song I would say it should have sorted it, better traction off the line (assuming the B8 is not quattro) and slightly more power but as Bill has said, the power delivery of the TFSI is better, has more power more of the time while the S3 peaks and drops off... makes all the difference...

    <tuffty/>
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  25. Neesh
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    Neesh Member

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    No not DSG normal 6 speed box and not a quattro and completely stock.Someone mentioned that the S3 loses a lot of its power though the transmission because of the quattro?is there a way to limit the amount of power that it loses?
    #24
  26. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    Fit a bigger turbo :)

    <tuffty/>
    #25
  27. emery1990
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    emery1990 Active Member

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    That sounds about right then, the extra few bhp the s3 has on weight to power ratio, it looses it in transmission losses, plus the tfsi having a more tuned engine. Is it like a ford focus 2.0l has 150bhp but the clio rs has got 172 bhp from a 2l engine, its just been tuned better.
    i love the dsg gearbox too, dad had it in the golf gti, the gear changes are so swift its unreal!
    #26
  28. JD09
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    JD09 I'm not modding, I'm improving VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    Nearer 200 if you count the newer car.
    #27
  29. emery1990
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    emery1990 Active Member

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    [Mar 15, 2010]
    Oh yeeee
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